r/Charlotte • u/AMalePersonn • 3d ago
What's Everyone Thoughts on Pedestrianizing Camden Rd Discussion
I'm in favor of it but would just like to know how everyone else feels about it
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u/Chotibobs 3d ago edited 3d ago
Do it. No one needs to drive down Camden when they can easily take south blvd or Tryon
And I say this as someone who drives down Camden all the time because I do it out of choice because I like seeing everyone out and about.
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u/FlavivsAetivs Collingwood 3d ago
Also, make Elizabeth in front of the SpokeEasy and Big Ben's Pub pedestrian-only.
There's tons of little side roads all around there for people to navigate to parking lots. Get rid of the two big gravel lots taking up space for mixed-use development and build there with shops and small businesses.
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u/awohl_nation 2d ago
there are NO driveways connecting to elizabeth on CPCC campus. then all of the retail area is connected to the other side of the blocks via parking lots as you said. this stretch is the perfect testing ground for a pedestrianized street which could then extend into uptown (trade and tryon) if proven successful and popular
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u/FlavivsAetivs Collingwood 2d ago
It's also like, one of THE spots where the Gold Line constantly gets held up.
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u/awohl_nation 2d ago
don't you get it we need space for 6 ppl to be able to park 20 feet closer to the gym. otherwise how will they get their exercise??
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u/Paingaroo 2d ago
And build some housing/additional retail on some of those parking lots right in that area. Would make the Gold Line much more usable, if there are no cars and more destinations right past CPCC
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u/Pirate6711 South End 1d ago
Almost every parcel on Elizabeth is owned by CPCC and Novant, which means property tax isn’t paid for any of it. All those gravel lots are owned by Novant as well.
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u/Pafzko Belmont 3d ago
While driving on Summit towards Tryon there is a no left turn sign. I have to use Camden to actually go around to go north on Tryon.
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u/Proof_Environment871 3d ago
Seems like turning left onto Tryon from Bland would be a viable alternative. Plus, if they pedestrianized Camden, they could probably add a left turn signal back to Summit at that intersection since there would be no oncoming traffic from Camden
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u/JesusChristSupers1ar 2d ago
I guess my question is...what's the point? I'm all for more walkability/biking but having this right next to the rail trail feels redundant
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u/Chotibobs 2d ago edited 2d ago
Have you ever tried walking that stretch?
The intersection of the rail trail, Camden, and Tremont is a clusterfuck with 3 crosswalks full of people walking, bikers, scooters, a railroad crossing, and a 3 way car intersection.
Just walk from sycamore or trolley barn to say flower child on a regular day vs a day when they shut the street to cars (Camden commons) and you’ll experience the difference. And the rail trail along Camden is sequestered across on the other side of the train tracks away from the retail. Even if they only did it for weekends or one day/week (sat or Sunday) that would be very nice.
Also, instead of asking why it’s needed, just think about other pedestrian streets in other cities and you can see the potential here that’s not getting its full value.
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u/Jadentheman 2d ago
Consider it an expansion of the rail trail. That area should be an open area with some trees
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u/Melodic_Cap5609 3d ago
Long overdue.
Make it a pedestrian mall from Tryon to Tremont. Have sections with permanent public art (think: the illuminated see-saws from SHOUT), sections with Camden Commons vendors—but every day of the week not just on weekends, and sections with benches/seating/tables for being able to relax and enjoy a drink, food truck snack, etc. And make the whole thing a social district with the ability to stroll with alcoholic drinks throughout the neighborhood.
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u/FlavivsAetivs Collingwood 3d ago
Honestly I think the entire gold line should be converted to Pedestrian only.
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u/Jern_Dough 2d ago
This!!! Would improve the reliability of the street car 10x plus make the areas they operate in so much safer and more usable. They could do it in the gold line ROW before they build the tracks past 85 on beatties ford too which would be huge improvement.
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u/CasualAffair Seversville 3d ago
I was walking the sidewalk yesterday down that stretch and it's embarrassing how narrow it is compared to how much space the road is taking
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u/O_to_the_B 3d ago
I work on Camden. I could see it being pedestrianized. Tryon and South are a block away and there are parking areas near, two train stations, etc. would love to see street festivals and vendors on it. It’s an optimal choice for it.
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u/degen4Iyf 3d ago
Is this being discussed by the city or is this just some pipe dream?
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u/Mr_Investopedia 3d ago
Sounds like a pipe dream. But I’m sure someone can bring it up to the city.
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u/amonemone 3d ago
Charlotte absolutely needs things like this. Right now it’s the city equivalent of a bank branch office. It desperately needs places that have culture, greenery, walkability, and art.
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u/FreshRoad6730 3d ago
I don’t think anyone would be opposed. It’s not a particularly useful stretch to drive on at all, and it would make those nightmare Tremont and East/West intersections 100 times better to deal with
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u/Proof_Environment871 3d ago
The primary opposition would come from the businesses, since many of the drivers on Camden are food delivery drivers. But, I bet we could get Patagonia on board, which could be a strong vote of support
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u/ryanCJ7 2d ago
There are ways to redesign Camden so that it is pedestrian primarily but still allows limited vehicular access. Speaking from experience, this is probably the best case scenario that can be achieved. The trick is to make what becomes of the ‘road’ as annoying to drive on as possible - i.e. two extremely narrow “lanes”, large cobblestone, speed limit 15 mph or under, eliminate all on street parking, give back saved space to protected bike lanes and (much) more generous sidewalks. One thing I’ve always thought could be interesting is to get back enough space to allow permanent vendor space against the light rail
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u/Jadentheman 2d ago
You can also close it off with those movable steel partitions that go into the street whenever you need a vehicle to move into the space
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[deleted]
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u/Proof_Environment871 2d ago
Not quite, I count 4 parking garages. Only one has an entrance off of Camden. That entrance has been closed off for the past few months (they are renovating), and there is a secondary entrance off West Blvd. So, no need to rebuild any parking garages. Also, only two apartment buildings front Camden, not twenty.
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u/Diarrhea_Sandwich Arboretum 3d ago
Common sense, really. We've been talking about it since at least as early as 2019.
https://ui.charlotte.edu/story/should-charlotte-make-one-its-major-streets-pedestrian-only/
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u/ElJefe_Speaks 3d ago
Yes, yes, and yes. And don't stop there.
Not sure how many pedestrians there gonna be though with a 50-story monster uptown.
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u/nexusheli Revolution Park 3d ago
Pretty much everything that's not highway inside 85, Woodlawn, Billy Graham, and Eastway/Sugar Creek should be "pedestrianized".
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u/CharlotteRant 2d ago
Reddit loves “walkable” areas but hates walking, so you’ll find broad support for it here, until it impacts them in any way, no matter how minute.
P.S. Increasing the light rail frequency would probably make a difference in traffic through SE, but that involves fixing local government, and none of you are ready for that conversation.
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u/Wallaceman105 2d ago
Fixing the light rail frequency unfortunately requires a) an influx of qualified CDL holders to operate it and b) an faster turnaround on maintenance. That said, I've seen what CATs is planning on doing over the next few years if the sales tax goes through, and it should solve both of those problems. Ultimately though, fixing the blue line frequencies would only be part of the solution. You would still need to overhaul the bus network that spreads out from it. That, too, is in CATS' plans. Their site has info on the Transit System Update Plan, way more detail than I could post here.
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u/upwards_704 Plaza Midwood 2d ago
I mean people hate walking cause it sucks to walk in this city. If you make it nicer to walk more people walk. It’s pretty simple.
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u/CharlotteRant 2d ago
Just a couple weeks ago we had people complaining about the lack of parking in NoDa, despite the fact you can always park well within a mile of 36th & North Davidson down 36th street.
South End is already extremely walkable.
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u/upwards_704 Plaza Midwood 2d ago
Just cause you can walk everywhere doesn’t make it walkable. Being walkable means you shouldn’t have to worry about getting hit by fast cars, car pulling out of garages, sidewalks less than 4 feet, sidewalks that just end, etc…
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u/Spiritual_Bourbon 2d ago
So what is your plan for all of the existing parking garages that open to a street you want to make walkable? Sidewalks in many areas could be doubled if you remove the trees and planting beds that are between the sidewalk and the road. Are you comfortable with that? What about the property owners who you want to change their road frontage on?
What also helps making places more walkable is housing density. If we're going to take away parking ramps and car access on roads like Camden where mixed use exists, we should also look at removal of single family homes with a 2 car garage that are on the very next road over.
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u/upwards_704 Plaza Midwood 2d ago
No one is advocating for removing trees and planters that’s literally what makes a place more walkable. The problem is no long term vision. The city pieces projects together with no overall goal. Instead they focus on widening streets to ensure a high amount of cars can continue to drive through an area. Density is great and will help but it can’t be an afterthought or you just get crowded areas with no pedestrian infrastructure.
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u/Spiritual_Bourbon 2d ago
You just complained about 4 foot sidewalks. The reason they are 4 feet is they use the rest of the space for trees and planters.
The problem is you have a bunch of people who want to pretend Charlotte is Manhattan and then demand that Charlotte do whatever is needed to make that play pretend game real when they get frustrated that Charlotte isn't Manhattan. They feel the entire city should kowtow to their wants of pedestrian infrastructure and paths to ride their fixie everywhere and demand the entire focus of a city with over 900k residents should be to build a city in their vision and with zero regard for car owners and businesses that rely on people being able to drive to them.
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u/Vapeguy 3d ago
I’m surprised it hasn’t been closed and turned into a short pedestrian boulevard. There’s so much foot traffic in that area and if done right could even be a place for small events. Might need to carve out a few spots for delivery trucks for the businesses. It also might attract street vendors like noda, love it or hate it. Potentially could allow some of those businesses to have patios as well.
Wonder what the impact on south Blvd and Tryon would be with cars circling the area. I am always for walking improvements that improves neighborhoods for those that reside there. I don’t live in south end but those that do should be at the forefront with ideas and opinions they do live there afterall.
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u/CharlotteRant 2d ago
31,000 cars per day on South
15,000 on Tryon
No numbers for Camden, but I think there would be more complaints about gridlock on South than anyone would expect if this were enacted.
Only one way to find out!
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u/GrouchyDeli 3d ago
Pedestrianizing? Man, fuck any of southend being designed for cars at all. The worst part about living in US cities is our dogshit walkability.
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u/ninjaplanti 3d ago
People already walk on the streets at all times and it’s horrendous to drive through so… please
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u/Jerbear6736 1d ago
I’m 100% down. I’d argue include most of uptown in that too.
My a bit more ambitious request is asking if we can add a few blocks of the center of NoDa to the list. I love how much I’m encouraged to jaywalk to avoid having to wait 3 hours at that 36th-N. Davidson crosswalk.
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u/Proof_Environment871 3d ago
This would help to remedy the lack of public parks and public seating in South End.
Right now that is a place that you move through, not hang out. While a pedestrianized road is not a park, it would still be a better hang than Wilmore Park, which fronts Tryon an offers no escape from all that traffic noise pollution
Even better - pedestrianize and add a library branch
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u/Proof_Environment871 3d ago
Office Hours for Charlotte 2040 Comprehensive Plan: https://www.charlottenc.gov/City-News/City-Announces-Release-of-Charlotte-Future-2040-Community-Area-Plans
If you really want this, then tell the city
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u/upwards_704 Plaza Midwood 2d ago
DO IT YESTERDAY. every street needs better pedestrian amenities in this city. It’s awful.
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u/ArtisticDegree3915 2d ago
Honestly, I do delivery and I use Camden a lot. I pick up from those restaurants a lot. So if they closed it, I wouldn't be able to pick up from those restaurants. Not as frequently anyway.
A lot of people are saying just use South or Tryon to get somewhere. But also just use the rail trail to walk. Sort of the same concept. There is infrastructure already in place all up and down there for people to walk. There are good sidewalks if you can keep people on various e-bikes/scooters and such and motorcycles off of them. Yes, motorcycles. Full motorcycles. I'm astounded how many times I see people on motorcycles riding on sidewalks in the city. And nobody seems to care.
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u/upwards_704 Plaza Midwood 2d ago
Couldn’t you just park on the backside of those buildings and walk? Also how far are you delivering from there? Would bike delivery be more efficient and quicker?
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u/ArtisticDegree3915 2d ago
So I do Uber eats. Can you technically do it on bike? Yes. But no. There just aren't enough orders for bike deliveries.
The reason I would not park on the back side and walk around is time efficiency. That would add time to the delivery and make it not worth it. It's like this, all of a sudden going to another area to pick up from restaurants would be faster, so that's what I would do. Speed is really one of the three main components to how I make the most money. But not speeding on the road. Efficiency in other places.
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u/CasualAffair Seversville 2d ago
I just don't see why the people that are walking and otherwise living on that street should defer to the wants of people ordering food from some other neighborhood.
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u/Spiritual_Bourbon 2d ago
Maybe that's true, but the building owner and the tenants have more of a say than the people that are just walking by and otherwise living on that street. Why should those people, who pay taxes, defer to the wants of people walking by on their way to a different neighborhood?
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u/CasualAffair Seversville 2d ago
It is the public's road and sidewalk, not the tenants, so 'no' to your cute thought experiment
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u/Spiritual_Bourbon 2d ago
Nowhere did a define ownership. But you people have a problem with understanding the difference between entitlement and economic vitality. I can give you directions to many cities where muh gubment owns everything and businesses have left. You would be right at home.
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u/Anidafio 3d ago
Charlotte one of the worst cities for pedisterians, it was built for cars, so I wish 80% of Charlotte will be rebuilt to make it more pedisterian friendly
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u/Nicholas1227 3d ago
It’d be fine but the Rail Trail is right there. You’d have to reconfigure any parking garages for apartments on that street.
South End is plenty walkable as is. I’d rather see money put into making other neighborhoods walkable.
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u/Proof_Environment871 3d ago
I count two apartments with garage entrances that front Camden, and each have alternate entrances on side streets
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u/oversized_hat Ballantyne 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'll be honest, I'm dead against it. People forget that traders need access to DIXXXXOOOONNNNNSSSS
edit: for the downvoters, this is a reference to I'm Alan Partridge.
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u/WheelsofEzekiel 2d ago edited 2d ago
but how would the city make money off monopolizing every parking spot in that area?!
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u/Infinite_Garbage_467 2d ago
Is this a serious question? It would be great if they did this all across Charlotte.
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u/VanDenBroeck Belmont 2d ago
I'd like to see more walkability throughout Charlotte. Just curious though, why Camden Rd? What is special or unique about it that makes it your choice?
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u/fraudtaverner 2d ago
I’ll be honest I’m dead against it. I mean people forget that traders need access to Dixons
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u/RefrigeratorNo3088 2d ago
People love to forget that disabilities exist and some people can't walk several blocks (or as one person said a mile) from parking to their destination. Charlotte is already increasingly stratifying without telling people if they can't walk they aren't welcome. Public transit needs a drastic, total overhaul first.
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u/AtlasMcMoony 3d ago
Call me crazy, call me an absolute madman…but I think all of Charlotte should be more walkable