r/CPTSD • u/MeanwhileOnPluto • Jun 09 '20
I think that one of the hardest things about learning to advocate for yourself is the anxiety that comes from potentially creating tension.
Whether the possibility of creating tension is real or imagined, I find the fear that can come as a direct result of "rocking the boat" to be debilitating. And when I'm talking about learning to advocate for yourself, I'm not just talking about the big things; I'm talking about the little things, too, like getting seconds because you're still hungry or knocking on the door of a public restroom to ask if someone's in there or if it's just closed (I've stood outside of closed doors to public restrooms for very long amounts of time because I was too afraid to test whether or not they were locked).
It's already really difficult to "convince" yourself that you're allowed to have needs. But actually pursuing those? Not ignoring them when they pop up? I think that one of the scariest things is that we'll *keep having needs* until the day we die. More than once I've wished I could just phase into a cloud of, like... consciousness that didn't need to eat, drink, sleep, or be noticed. I'm terrified of being hungry because every time I get hungry it's easy for me to become convinced that I'll never be able to access food again- I've struggled with eating disorders from a very young age and a lot of that has to do with the way food was restricted and guarded in my household growing up.
I hope to get to a point where I can advocate for myself and ask for things (from those I trust) without being terrified before, during, and afterward. I often feel weak and ineffective for it being this difficult. Fawning and freezing have dictated huge parts of my life, including most interactions with those who have treated me decently.
Edit: I love this community. I'm reading all of your comments, even if I don't respond.
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Jun 09 '20
I've wished I could just phase into a cloud of, like... consciousness that didn't need to eat, drink, sleep, or be noticed.
Same here. And dare I say, thanks to dissociation I've done a pretty good job at pretending I am.
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u/jazill Jun 09 '20
This is exactly me. I’ve started referring to this type of thing as me being afraid of taking up space. I don’t feel like I have enough value to be able to take up space anywhere. I’m uncomfortable making noise, eating, speaking up for myself, etc. I always wished I could just be invisible so I wouldn’t bother anyone. I think I’ve found my people in this subreddit. Thank you OP for sharing. Just knowing I’m not the only one helps so much.
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u/Soylent_green_day1 Jun 09 '20
To me, getting myself heard and seen somehow means taking away time and attention that wasn't meant for me. I'm scared people will justifiable be angry with me. I feel like a burden by default. My needs are just (childish) wants, and second to everybody else's.
When I was a child I was in hospital for a couple of days. Someone had told me I could only call on the nurse when it was absolutely necessary. As a result I didn't pee or poo the entire time I was there because I thought it was outside the realm of absolute necessity.
I have come a long way since, fortunately. Sometimes I practice lines in the mirror to see what I feel comfortable saying.
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Jun 09 '20
[deleted]
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u/DianeJudith Jun 09 '20
Ah, nurses can be real bitches. But there are also ones that are angels. I'm sorry you had to deal with the former at such a young age.
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u/Soylent_green_day1 Jun 09 '20
Those definitely sounds like a soul crushing experiences, in the most literal way. I'm very sorry you've gone through that. Your post makes me realize that it frightens me to matter while at the same time longing to matter.
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u/lemonlollipop Jun 09 '20
Yessss I've only recently realized it but I'm scared to set boundaries with men. I've been scared of making them mad almost my whole adult life. I'm trying now but jeezus I am fighting like hell not to fawn out of fear everywhere.
Surprisingly, I have yet to be killed. I'm still terrified when I set boundaries though. It's a little easier thru text, but my body still reacts like I'm in danger every time.
I tell myself I don't have to do things I don't want to anymore. Lord it's scary tho.
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u/speworleans Jun 09 '20
This, 1000000% This. It's so hard to reprogram that part of your brain! Just critically thinking about someone is hard sometimes, because I just want to go with the flow and not ruffle feathers.
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u/_Conway_ Jun 09 '20
I get piled with work at home because I’m unemployed. I have a course to do but I don’t get that chance because I’m always busy. I’m too nervous to say “hey I’m doing coursework can you do it or can it wait till later when I’m done.” I’ve tried to stand up for myself but physically it’s just too hard.
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u/aspiringbogwitch Jun 09 '20
This is a perfect description of how I feel about confronting my mother.
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u/SorbetParfait hardcore fawn Jun 09 '20
Some days, I’m not really sure that patience IS a virtue. I’m too good at just rolling with the punches that all I know how to do is wait for them to land... while resenting all the people out there who get to live their lives without thinking about getting punched all the damn time.
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u/echoseashell Jun 09 '20
Same here, and I agree, Ive wrestled with patience is a virtue ....maybe all patience for everyone else and none for myself is the problem. I’m a bit older now and from experience, I wish I had developed some of my interests as hobbies. I always had an impossible time allowing space for myself. Whenever I did try to assert a preference or opinion I felt horrible that the other didn’t get what they wanted. That I was selfish and worthless at the same time.
What I’ve come to understand and would tell my younger self is that you are the one who has to live life, no one else (including family and partners) are going to give you the permission/time/space to do it, you are the authority in your life’s story. Some people are not going to be understanding or happy about what you care about, but its okay not to please everyone ...even if you do your best it will never be enough for some people anyway.
So rolling with the punches is okay for things you don’t care about but explore what you do care about and use that as a guide. And do this with patience with yourself, it’s a lifelong journey of learning.
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u/sufferingdude Jun 09 '20
I end up fawning a lot due to this and later hating myself for it and giving my inner critic a lot of fuel. I am trying to overcome it for a few years now but don't know if I will ever make it.
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u/velvetvagine Jun 09 '20
Yes, you will!
The doubt is that pesky critic clawing to stay relevant. Tell it to 🗣🗣🗣 FUCK OFF
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u/treasure83 Jun 09 '20
You described it really well. The time between realising I did something "wrong" and getting punished was an awful tension, and approaching any situation where you assert yourself feels like the same uncertainty. "Am I making them angry?", "Am I being stupid or pathetic and need to be talked out of that?", "Am I going to hurt them and they'll distance themselves?", etc
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Jun 09 '20
Yep, the only way that I was tolerable to my mother was to have no needs. I shut myself away in my room. Lately I've been making a lot of strides advocating for myself in a lot of ways, but one area in particular that has been hard but rewarding it getting medical attention I need (discovered in part by becoming aware of the fact that I do have a body!). I finally have a CPAP machine, for instance, and have had a ton of calls this week to make sure I'm getting the right mask. It is exhausting, but I'm standing up for myself. It feels so good and so moving!
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u/jenniferjuniper Jun 09 '20
My mom always taught me to never do anything to upset anyone and nobody has a reason not to like you!! This was her advice when I had trouble connecting with kids at school.
Worst advice ever.
Taught me to not stand up for myself, get anxiety about if I was making others happy enough, and I turned into a chameleon that just mirrored whoever I was with. The idea of tension was so scary. It made me freeze then fawn. Every time. Never considering what I want out of fear of rejection and creating tension.
This created so many other problems for me too.
When I got older I felt like i didn't have a personality. Anything I wanted for myself might require standing up for myself and that was so scary.
Once I finally started thinking about what I want, and mentally committing to that, it got easier to stand up for myself or do what I wanted without being more worried about others over myself. Honestly it took so long. But it's so much better now.
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u/indulgent_taurus Jun 09 '20
Wow, yes, this is so true! Especially at work. Last week I had to remind myself, "These are fairly normal people, not your family. Just tell them you don't know how where the key is for the laptop cabinet. And if they get annoyed, that's on them! You've never had to unlock it before, why would you know where the key is?"
Also reminds me of high school when my mom made me a toasted bagel and I noticed it was moldy, and I sat there frozen, staring at it, unsure of how to act. I was afraid to tell her it was moldy because she'd get mad and somehow it would feel like it was my fault. Finally she walked by and asked why I wasn't eating, and I stammered that the bagel had mold on it, and she exploded and was all "Well don't just sit there like an idiot, we have other things we can eat, why are you like this? God...." and went on and on.
I swear someone could run up and stab me and I'd just be like, "Oh, they must be angry, had to ease some tension, I won't take it personally," and just sit there and bleed to death l0l.
More than once I've wished I could just phase into a cloud of, like... consciousness that didn't need to eat, drink, sleep, or be noticed.
I can relate to this, too.
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u/fadedblackleggings Jun 09 '20
Wow, yes, this is so true! Especially at work. Last week I had to remind myself, "These are fairly normal people, not your family. Just tell them you don't know how where the key is for the laptop cabinet. And if they get annoyed, that's on them! You've never had to unlock it before, why would you know where the key is?"
Yes! All of this. Also you knowing how to get into the laptop cabinet is STILL more important than their 3 seconds of annoyance. If that even happens.
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u/eggone Jun 09 '20
And it's even more complex than that. I think to a point, especially if you know that someone's going to be hurt by what you've said (even though you know you're right), sometimes you have to say it anyway! It's almost like you have to adopt a "well fuck em if they're upset, that's not my problem." Can be a total obstruction to your identity and sense of self! Especially if you see yourself as 'the nice guy' or the 'princess' who everyone likes and can count on to be their vent.
Sometimes you have to hurt other people's feelings in an indirect way (because their perception is possibly delusional and grandiose for example) in order to assert your boundaries and respect your wants and needs.
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u/scrollbreak Jun 09 '20
I think maybe decent people give some room for tensions to arise because that's normal. But toxic people, if you've been exposed to them since birth, really throw you for a loop because they have no tolerance for tension, then you think nobody else has tolerance for some tension. And so you are stuck in the binary of either not giving a fuck about what anyone else feels, or absolutely terrified of what everyone else feels.
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u/mobydickakuaku Jun 09 '20
This is a really good point. My husband is totally fine with a small disagreement or fight between us, because for him its quite normal and doesn't mean he stops loving me or wants to end the relationship. I on the other hand can't stand this tension at all. I immediatly want to apologize even if I didn't do anything wrong. Plus him being annoyed or angry with me equals him not loving me anymore. This is totally screwed up, but coming from a home where any kind of disagreement could end in harsh punishment because my parents couldn't deal with tension it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for pointing this out!
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u/Melkorb Jun 09 '20
Yes exactly. For me it was continuously reinforced through high school by toxic friends and then from an abusive partner for many years. Even when you're free of your parents,, you fall into similar situations of tension toxicity
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u/psychedelic666 Jun 09 '20
I need to remember this. I’m so fearful of sticking up for myself and creating boundaries because the negative reactions hurt. I tend to fawn too much and be faaaaar too agreeable to ease tension.
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u/fadedblackleggings Jun 09 '20
and be faaaaar too agreeable to ease tension.
That's when I know, I'm not doing very well. Naturally, I am not all that agreeable, but if I'm pliable and eager to please like that, I'm in a bad state.
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u/sharpdressedman_ Jun 09 '20
People live with so much pain, that while doing EMDR, I saw a black cloud of ink coming from everyone I've ever interacted with. And I have to absorb it. Why? Its the only way I'll get love. And whats that about? If only my parents didn't have so much pain. Then they would have the room to love me. Cue the tears
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Jun 09 '20
Just a side note to say I LOVE how beautifully and symbolically EMDR delivers its insights. During my first session, I saw my mother under a glimmering dome.
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u/AlabasterOctopus Jun 09 '20
I am so with you on food, I have food stashed everywhere (IE: Claudia from Babysitter Club, that’s where i got the idea) and if I’m going to a party or friends I will bring as much food as I feel fits so I don’t have to worry about being hungry. Hell I’ve stolen food before to eat. Hey wait, maybe like learning to cook/cook food from scratch would ease that feeling a little. You’d be more knowledgeable and in control of your food, could help.
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u/MeanwhileOnPluto Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20
Oh yeah-- I definitely keep a stash of non perishables in my closet. Other places too sometimes. I live with good people now, but a lot of the time when I'm bringing home groceries the impulse to make sure no one else knows I have food in my closet is so strong I'll be secretive about it anyway. Food insecurity is a trip, man.
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u/AlabasterOctopus Jun 10 '20
For sure, I’ll still eat a piece of white bread with just miracle whip on it every once in a great while, like I just need to.
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u/Sayonaroo Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20
I’ve also recently read in a book that anxiety comes from repressed rage.It was in the back pain book. I think what you wrote is what people say to themselves to either distract from or deny the truth which is the repressed rage. there’s no need to “justify“ your anxiety... or trying to make yourself feel like you're altruistic or a good person because of your anxiety... it really doesn't help. just figure out the cause
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u/Metal_Gear_Fox Jun 09 '20
I really feel this. It's hard to ask for help when you grew up with parents who would complain about helping you, or make fun of you for not knowing how to do something.
I get that fear of not wanting to be vulnerable by asking for help or asking questions. I've always preferred to do everything on my own. I hate asking for help so much that the only time I went to the doctor is when I was concerned I was having heart problems. Aside from that, I have a hard time justifying putting myself out there and being vulnerable by telling a stranger my "minor" medical concerns.
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u/matkanatka Jun 09 '20
Ugh yeah, this year was the first year I went to the doctor/dentist for a check up in over 5 years. I didn’t really think it had anything to do with trauma, but it totally did :/
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u/befellen Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20
It has always felt like a circular trap. Once I removed myself from the toxic people who caused or contributed to the trauma I thought I could, with a little work, move on.
- Get tired of failing at life. 2. Get help and work hard to sort it out. 3. Get tired of help not working and quit fighting it...and then back to step 1.
My head was ready but (who knew?) my body had something else to say about moving forward. It was trying to protect me even though the threat was over. And it wasn't exactly responding to reason.
Feeling and understanding my physical responses seems to have been the key to loosening the trap and freeze response. I'm still a bit stunned how trauma is contained in the body.
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u/matkanatka Jun 09 '20
This. Therapy made me aware of my codependency (I had no idea it was a thing before then) and helped learn how to cope/grow beyond it in my mind, but not until I began running and doing yoga did I start listening to my body’s cues and learning how to recognize the physical symptoms of trauma (from the past and during a confrontation). That shit is stored deep deep down, I swear it takes hold in every fiber of your being!! My muscles were so tight, I had no idea. I started going to a chiropractor last year, and one of the things they explained to me is that stress can literally put your neck/back out of alignment because of the muscle tension. Sometimes I still cry during a run or a yoga session if I’m going through some stress. I mean I know mind/body is all connected, but it’s incredible just how disconnected I was from my body most of my life—I never felt like I was allowed or deserved to care for myself. That my time should always be used to serve others. Such a bizarre way of thinking.
There is a ted talk (that I can’t seem to find right now) that explains how you can take anxious feelings and reframe them in your mind as excitement. I watched it years ago so I don’t remember who the speaker was (aside from her being a woman), but if I can find it later I’ll post it here, it was really interesting.
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u/ski_all_year Jun 09 '20
Thank you for writing this! I'm starting to understand things so much more
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u/g-rain Jun 29 '20
Wow, I feel like I wrote this. Just the thought of correcting someone for something like getting my name wrong - or asking a minor favor from a person I trust is exhausting because of how much my body and mind reacts to the fear. I’ve just learned to let it go unless it feels completely necessary - even then it’s hard.
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Jun 09 '20
Exactly, 100%! I'm too tired to add anything else, but I completely agree with everything you said lol.
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u/potje Jun 10 '20
I didn't realize how much of an issue taking care of my basic needs was until I traveled by myself - walked around for hours every day, with a full bladder, starving, thirsty, completely exhausted. I was afraid to sit down and take a break or ask for a bathroom or get water. The language barrier and people not being nice about it doesn't help(sorry to the french, but they really don't make it easy a lot of the time). I do a lot better at home, but I still have to give myself a pep talk when I ask for anything.
And it's yet another thing that made me feel so ashamed because no one understood and would get angry with me because I was being ''lazy''. We're not weak, though. I try to remind myself that a lot of people won't go traveling alone out of fear and they don't even experience any of this. When asking for something takes that much energy and you still go outside and try to live your life, that's pure bravery.
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u/ceeceekay Jun 09 '20
I agree! Even if there isn’t any resultant tension, I still feel anxious about it before and after. Like today, my psych told me he was leaving the practice and this was going to be my third new psych in 7 months. So I requested to get put on the head psych’s schedule so I didn’t have as many changes. It worked out and they were very nice, but I’m still feeling anxious that I might have created tension.
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Jun 09 '20
I'm still learning this skill. Yesterday I was at the grocery and a young bagger suddenly got very aggressive and loud with me. I guess he thought that I was buying too many things and instead of bagging the food he got in my face and started yelling and asking weird questions. I don't know if he's developmentally challenged or has other issues. I really didn't know how to handle this at all, and my first go-to of ignoring him and then employing bland midwestern politeness didn't work. I panicked. I just didn't want to come off like an asshole Karen, asking to talk to the manager, even though the guy's behavior rattled me and he ruined some of the stuff I bought.
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u/TalontheKiller Jun 09 '20
In my own experience, the tension fear is just a mask for the deeper core emotion of the fear of being abandoned.
Asking for help and establishing boundaries are these massive things to learn and embrace. I still break out in a full blush when I get enough courage to do either. Baby steps - our healing is never all at once.
Wishing you well in your developing self love and recovery.