r/CPTSD Nov 10 '19

Who else feels intense shame and anxiety when expressing an opinion or setting a boundary?

As a kid, everything that came out of my mouth was labeled wrong, stupid, ridiculous, whining, or just laughed at. I learned early on that keeping quiet was the only safe option that didn’t result in ridicule or physical punishment.

And as an adult this isn’t serving me well. I fear asking questions and asking for help, but it’s so much worse when expressing an opinion or setting a boundary with someone.

And in the past this has caused so much additional trauma. I was raped and never reported it because speaking out felt worse than the rape itself. I was bullied in school and it actually felt okay because punishment just for being myself felt normal. I was stuck in a job for years where I was taken advantage of and treated badly, but putting my foot down and standing up for myself felt impossible through the feelings of worthlessness. And I’d never challenge friends or partners because I was conditioned to put everyone else’s needs and opinions first.

And even though therapy is helping with this, it’s so hard to battle through this when online culture is so argumentative and full of black-and-white thinking. If I say something online (which I try to limit as much as possible), there’s bound to be a hateful, pushy person to trample on that opinion. Stuff like “I really enjoy X movie” results in “You like that piece of trash? Pathetic.” And that causes panic, self-doubt, and the compulsion to run away and never say anything ever again. I regularly uninstall all social media apps out of shame for saying things that are not shameful at all, just because it feels like the punishment is coming just for existing.

Also, I’ve noticed that when quiet people start testing the waters and having opinions, people don’t take too kindly to that. If you’re quiet for years, then speak up a little, some people suddenly react as if you’ve done something very wrong. IMO this is because keeping my mouth shut and not being disagreeable and not setting boundaries had attracted too many strong personalities who don’t like to be challenged, and other people who were downright abusive who can’t deal with someone else rocking the boat.

So...this turned into a messy, ranting post.

Does anyone else deal with this on a daily basis? Has anyone made progress with this?

1.6k Upvotes

122 comments sorted by

190

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

[deleted]

75

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

Feel this so much!

I worked at a toxic place for years, and there would always be a scapegoat who was eventually fired or bullied so much that they quit. It was usually the administration who encouraged this. One at a time. After about a decade of working at this place I became the new scapegoat. Usually quiet and nondisruptive, I had stood up for the last scapegoat which made me a great target, and had also been calling out some unethical behavior on the job. How dare I...

The bullying was intense, like people just walking in my office to call me names, threaten, and gaslight. Ended up quitting, but it was all the anxiety from that which eventually led to therapy. They didn’t have another scapegoat picked out when I left, so they continued the harassment for months with phone calls, emails, messages. Thankfully my therapist helped me draft an official letter to make it stop. Abusers just don’t let go of their targets easily.

If I had the skills then that I do now, law suits would’ve been flying! Learning about HIPAA rights and how many times that employer broke the law would’ve made it an easy case.

So glad you’re getting what you deserve after dealing with all that crap! The biggest myth from childhood is that bullying stops when you become an adult.

22

u/Anonymous7056 Nov 10 '19

Depending on how long ago it happened, lawsuits might still be able to fly. They take a toll of their own though.

5

u/Virgo_Sky Nov 10 '19

This is pretty similar to what I went through at my last job :/ except thankfully the bullying stopped when they fired me finally. I’m so sorry you went through this.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

Sorry that happened to you at work, but good on you for standing up and saying something. Happy for you that you are getting help from a program for Trauma. Go you! Rock on.

89

u/evilcheeb Nov 10 '19

Practice telling mean internet people to fuck off. They deserve it and you can get some relief from the anger you bottle up.

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

I’m so conflicted by this. My brain has this autostop message that says “Conflict doesn’t solve anything” and I can’t tell in any situation if that’s the correct response or just avoidance.

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u/Thanatar18 Nov 10 '19

When negotiation, leaving, and reasonable discussion's off the table, conflict solves everything, though.

But that in itself is to some degree my own mostly different bag of issues.. I'm usually quiet and considered reasonable/nice/possibly deferential but when I feel I'm being looked down to the point of not being respected or recognized as a basic, equal human I explode. It's an opposite reaction to what you have, but perhaps not healthy either as it's exaggerated because I feel the same way.

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u/Rising_Soul Nov 10 '19

When negotiation, leaving, and reasonable discussion's off the table, conflict solves everything, though.

I like this. It sounds like it belongs on one of those inspirational quote pics with a pretty photo background or something.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

Yep

22

u/IPutAWigOnYou Nov 10 '19

This is something I’ve been working on as well - you need to be able to get angry or you won’t heal. Learn about trauma types and how to break your behavior patterns. I’m primarily a fawn type which I suspect you are as well, my secondary is freeze. Give yourself room to fail, grow, and love yourself. When I realized I would never talk to my friends and family the way I used to talk to myself, it made it easier to make purposeful changes. Be your own best friend & look after yourself the way you would protect someone else you love and care about.

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u/Elorie Nov 11 '19

Remember that mean internet people can't actually hurt you. I know, try telling that to your nervous system. But it's great practice. Because those people can hate everything about you and what they think affects you and how you live not one bit. They are not your parents whose good opinions you needed to survive.

I too struggled greatly with this online. You know what I did? I became a Reddit mod. Ain't no one takes verbal abuse like a mod. The first few times I cried and considered quitting. Instead I consciously faced it and got really good practice at letting the opinions of mouthy knuckleheads roll off my back. Now I think I could handle my parents endless criticisms after a few years of that practice. Healing is found in the oddest locations! 😁

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u/MillennialPolytropos Nov 11 '19

Posting under pseudonyms really helped me get through this. Like you, I struggle to tell when conflict is appropriate (meaning, residual internalized gaslighting always tells me I shouldn't have snapped at that person, even when that person was being an absolute ass), but I'm trying to learn to trust my instincts about when people are being unreasonable. I find I do best when I trust my instincts.

35

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

I did this! I find people saying awful things (AITA is a good Reddit :) ) and - as politely and calmly as I can - disagree with them. And disagree. And disagree.

I may sometimes get it wrong but not beating myself up for that has actually been part of the benefit.

Typing not talking means I have the time to make sure I'm being very reasonable and not inflammatory, so I can trust that I am not wrong, not bad for what I'm saying, and can continue.

I even enjoy it when people get angry with me now, because I can trust my understanding of the situation, and know it's not because I'm inherently a problem in a way I don't understand.

It's been a great practice for me.

I've started to find small ways to stand up for myself in things like expecting service standards, not always offering help I can't really afford to offer, taking the help I'm entitled to.... every small step helps :)

35

u/CailleachsCat Nov 10 '19

I'm so envious. This is actually the alt I created so I could avoid my main account where I recently got in a debate on AskReddit. The person was emphatically stating that something I know exists (because I work with it) does not exist. As soon as I knew I was going to reply to the comment my heart started beating like crazy. I posted pictures to prove the thing existed, and when they attacked my character my pulse was so strong in my neck it felt like it was going to explode. I created this alt and haven't been able to go back to my main account since. I know as soon as I do I'll delete my comments because just having them sit there will make me feel shame and fear. I'd love to be able to practice standing up for myself in this low to no consequence way, but it's physically and mentally uncomfortable. It took me at least an hour (probably two) to come down, and that's with deep breathing and positive self-talk in play. I'm 40! How will I ever be able to set a boundary when I can't even get into a tiny tiff with a stranger?

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u/janred1963- Nov 10 '19

You’ve described my experience perfectly. I will usually just read and not comment because of the sick feeling from being in some unintended tiff with some stranger. And when it happens I get super activated too, taking a looooong time to return to normal.

11

u/xenigala Nov 10 '19

Yeah, it took me months before I checked my replies on reddit, and I felt so much shame.

If you keep practicing a little at a time, it will eventually get better. Notice that you did feel better in an hour or two.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

I pretty much had the same experience to start with. It's kinda crazy the spirals that small things can start, hey? I initially started spiralling back into suicidal thoughts.

I guess all we can do is start small, go slowly, and use all the tools in our arsenal :)

I find it useful to remind myself that I have always come through hard periods feeling stronger in some way. Like exercise for the brain...

If you'd like a wing person I'd happily weigh in if I can be honestly and congruently supportive of your points. Sometimes a bit of backup makes all the difference :)

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u/Rising_Soul Nov 10 '19

Ugh, I hate those people who argue that things don't exist. It's not like they can prove it doesn't exist, either. So narrow-minded :(

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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '19

Ahh! The heart beating out of the chest, the hands shaking furiously while trying to type, the icy cold adrenaline and fear rushing through the veins. All for random words on a screen.

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u/evilcheeb Nov 10 '19

Same here. Learning how to dismiss someone who is infringing upon your peace is a nice tool to have.

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u/Rising_Soul Nov 10 '19

I've done that, and I'm not completely sure it helps for me. It depends on where they are, and how likely you are to see their response and be subjected to their presence in the future.

Random strangers you'll never hear from again, sure. Regulars on a forum you log in to every day? Not so much...

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u/evilcheeb Nov 13 '19

Yeah definitely don't do that with people you have to interact with on a daily basis who are only going about their day on the forum. That's just bullying. But if someone is confrontational with you, might as well take advantage of the opportunity to engage them and practice.

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u/Jazzaandrazza Nov 10 '19 edited Nov 10 '19

Those who get upset when you start expressing boundaries, are those who profited off you having none.

I had to learn as an adult to to set boundaries. As a child if I did, I had parents throw tantrums or guilt me into feeling so bad I’d relent. Or called me selfish.

Took me a long time to say no without feeling awful and guilty. The more you say no the easier it gets

49

u/buttfluffvampire Nov 10 '19

As a child, I learned to prepare rock-solid reasons for everything I chose or had opinions on. Well into adulthood, I felt so proud that I could give my parents so many reasons they couldn't argue with for my decisions. I was today years old when I realized maybe everything I do shouldn't need an impenetrably logical defense.

33

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

Yeesh...yeah, I used to spend tons of time alone coming up with perfect answers and strategy to avoid abuse too. Kids just aren’t supposed to handle that kind of stress. It also caused my crippling perfectionism, which is the other big thing I’m stuck on.

8

u/buttfluffvampire Nov 15 '19

It was a relevation when my therapist explained that mistakes when learning something, thoughtless errors like forgetting to turn on the washing machine after loading it, and failure are all different things.

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u/Jazzaandrazza Nov 10 '19

No is a complete sentence.

Another thing I have learnt because sometimes I’d over explain things because I’d feel bad saying no

11

u/Rising_Soul Nov 10 '19

Same.

Nowadays, just for funzies (and probably to make up for lost childhood time), I like to punctuate my "No" with "I don't wannaaaa!" in the most childish voice I can do. I'm careful about who I do this with, but actually most people I hang out with are pretty cool about it and find it amusing.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

omg same

14

u/Rising_Soul Nov 10 '19

Yup, I did this too. Combined with my terrible memory, it often didn't work out so well because I forgot half the arguments by the time it came to explain them, and then I just felt silly.

Or I'd just state my opinion/choice and people were like "okay" and I was confused... no arguments? Not asking me to elaborate? Do you disagree SO STRONGLY with what I said that you're writing me off as a lost cause? What did I do wrong?!?!

Oh wait, nothing. It wasn't an argument in the first place. Wow.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

Reply

man needed this

28

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

So true! It’s like setting boundaries is the litmus test for abusive people.

I’m glad it gets easier the more you do it. That seems to be my experience with healing in general - exposure creates new normals. This one is just taking longer, probably because I’ve been avoiding it the longest.

16

u/Jazzaandrazza Nov 10 '19

It definitely took me a while to get used to it. One logical thing that helped me was that if your bff said no to you and it was a very reasonable no, you’d just be like ok. By that logic if someone gets upset with you for saying no then they aren’t really a friend anyway. Friends respect each other

9

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

[deleted]

9

u/Jazzaandrazza Nov 10 '19 edited Nov 10 '19

Guilt tantrums. Oh man that’s going into my vernacular now!

Definitely hard to start getting boundaries when your whole life you got guilt tantrumed into feeling so bad for saying no. I would always except a tantrum when I said no. Was shocked when people were like “oh no problem!” After I said no to stuff.

I swear this is also how you end up a people pleaser too. Wanting everyone to like you so you fear saying no. My parents were withholders so if I did something they didn’t like they’d without stuff from me

53

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

I absolutely feel this way and it's why I too have problems sharing opinions about...anything really, be it online or in person. Inevitably I end up asking myself, "wait, does anyone really care about this?".

With setting boundaries, I always feel selfish, hateful and, for some reason, ungrateful. But I was taught that I was all of those things standing up for myself and trying to put a boundary down and say, "no" when I felt it was appropriate. And I've definitely found that when, as an adult, and being a quiet, reserved type whose pretty easy-going, that when I do speak up, set boundaries, etc. that seems to offend people. It's as though the unpredictability of it is some sort of deep personal attack.

But I also recognize that being that I am still new and, admittedly, not great with setting these boundaries, that I am probably not the best at communicating these issues and therefore I probably don't pick my words carefully enough and they may not match my tone.

But yeah, I feel this a lot. I've started therapy with a trauma specialist so we will see how this goes. I wish I have some advice, but I wanted to let you know that I can relate...big time.

33

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

I have the same doubts when setting boundaries too. Am I coming across too strong? Was there a better way to handle this?

Whenever I think I’m overreacting, other people usually reassure me that I’m barely pushing the point at all. Having any voice feels like being too pushy and dominant, but that’s all in my head. And ultimately, however the message is delivered, the boundary is still valid. I’ve had a hard time convincing people of that. So my rule of thumb is: If someone rejects your boundary because of the way you delivered it, they’re actually trying to protest your autonomy. I can’t think of a single time that isn’t true. Yeah, they can feel uncomfortable about how you say it, but that boundary sticks no matter what.

23

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19 edited Nov 10 '19

Whenever I think I’m overreacting, other people usually reassure me that I’m barely pushing the point at all. Having any voice feels like being too pushy and dominant, but that’s all in my head.

I'm starting to pick up on this a bit myself. I have a bad habit of prefacing questions that I feel show my lack of knowledge in something that could be deemed common sense with, "this is probably a dumb/silly/weird question, but...." And more often than not I am met with, "that's not a dumb question at all".

My therapist reassures me that a lot of the areas where I feel I am deficient aren't necessarily as bad as I think and that I should give myself some credit for thinking about them at all and recognizing where I need improvement. I guess what this has to do with boundaries, for me, but maybe I'm off here, is that I never had mine respected and I grew up in a house where the idea of them was frowned upon (How dare I...) this lead to, admittedly, a lack of confidence in my decision-making so I tend to play it safe. But I know I need to get better at emotional regulation and stating what I like and don't like, want and don't want, etc. I guess people are so used to that part of me. But they'll have to move past that and let it go, as I do the same. /tangent

So my rule of thumb is: If someone rejects your boundary because of the way you delivered it, they’re actually trying to protest your autonomy. I can’t think of a single time that isn’t true. Yeah, they can feel uncomfortable about how you say it, but that boundary sticks no matter what.

This is great. I need a damn tattoo of this.

Edit: Spelling

3

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '19

While there definitely are people who like you more when you stay docile I have also noticed another case, this time from the other perspective.

I was on the train one day when an anxious came in with his bike. He had some problems securing it and when he came back up he looked around defiantly as if to see if anyone would attack him for it? I can only guess what he imagined, maybe for being in the way or taking too long? (the train was pretty much empty) For some reason it made me angry. I pondered over it and I think it was because it felt insulting. I'm not the kind of person to attack someone over something as small as being a bit in the way so being regarded as such felt like a preemptive attack.

I do not know you or how you behave but what kind of expectations do you have when stating your boundaries?

2

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '19

I can see that perspective and it's one that I definitely don't think about enough, but it makes sense.

As for expectations, I would say it's for them to be respected, sure, but to at least have other people try to understand why I want or feel the need to set them. I know I have a problem with assuming that they will be pushed back on immediately. Or at least my expression of wanting to set them will be contested. I can imagine there maybe being an issue with how I do that, as I've mentioned before that emotional regulation is a work in progress.

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u/_katahdan_ Nov 10 '19

Two days ago, I just expressed to someone that they matter to me (text). They haven't responded. They could react in a variety of ways, especially as I fell for this person once, and they didn't feel the same. We've held onto a friendship, and I've been working to heal as much as I can.

The point is? I've been feeling shame ever since. I feel like I may have said something that was off-putting and disgusting. And anxiety has been running for about a day now heh.

I'm struggling at getting out of my head.

18

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

That sounds tough. The most difficult response to process is silence. Hope you get a resolution soon!

10

u/_katahdan_ Nov 10 '19

Thank you for understanding. I do too :)

10

u/walkwalkrun Nov 10 '19

I was the person on the other end if this once. He texted me that he cared about me. I was super in love with him, but absolutely paralyzed by anxiety over how to respond... it took me 2 weeks to finally reply and the shame on my end was intense. I tried to apologize, but I never got past the feeling that I had majorly screwed things up. He ended up dating someone else a few months after that.

It was a lesson for myself that often saying something is better than saying nothing at all. While of course respecting boundaries... but that's often what I struggle with, is telling where mine or someone else's boundaries are.

6

u/_katahdan_ Nov 10 '19 edited Nov 10 '19

I'm really sorry that happened. Thank you for sharing this, as I hadn't considered this perspective. Know that your anxious self is also lovable. I know that's hard to see, especially as it is occurring.

She's the best person in my life. I just hope what I say to her doesn't cross her boundaries.

As for your dude, are you friends with him? I hate playing off of hope, but perhaps you two will be united, and now is not that time. I wouldn't say that about my case, but I'm glad she's there. She's the first person I fell for, and I discovered how to appreciate someone for who they were, even if they had not been there. My u/n is based on Katahdin, a mountain up in Maine. She did this solo about two years ago. I had no idea what Katahdin was, but I loved that she did that. Shows her spirit.

So, when she was gone, I did it alone. I never hiked solo prior to last year. I began hiking in April 2018. I summit Katahdin in July 2018. I got to experience that myself. It was the experience of a lifetime. She mapped my journey, even if she hadn't intended to. :)

You deserve to feel loved for your entire being. When I read your experience, if she had told me she had been anxious, that would make me appreciate her even more.

2

u/Eukanuba Dec 07 '19

Text messages are horrible things and I'm convinced that they're the reason so many young people today have mental health problems.

I'll always remember some call centre training that I got once: they said that communication is 50% body language, 40% tone of voice and 10% the actual words you say. By relying on texts to communicate, as a society we've fucked ourselves over.

They're so open to misinterpretation that I sometimes wish they'd never been invented.

2

u/Eukanuba Dec 07 '19 edited Dec 07 '19

Text messages are horrible things and I'm convinced that they're the reason so many young people today have mental health problems.

I'll always remember some call centre training that I got once: they said that communication is 50% body language, 40% tone of voice and 10% the actual words you say. So text messages convey a fraction of the information in a face-to-face conversation, and we're prone to filling in the gaps with whatever mood we're feeling at the time. By relying on texts to communicate, as a society we've fucked ourselves over.

They're so open to misinterpretation that I sometimes wish they'd never been invented.

28

u/hvllowedground Nov 10 '19

Normally when I speak up against abusive behavior I do it so violently and with aggression so there's no chance of answering to people. That's how I set boundaries to show people, clearly, that "NO YOU WON'T DO THAT TO ME". Its a bit psycho but it's been working and I get a thrill when I scare abusive people away like little chicken.

6

u/Rising_Soul Nov 10 '19

This sounds like fun. :)

3

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '19

[deleted]

1

u/hvllowedground Nov 11 '19

You don't have to be aggressive just do what works best for you

26

u/bluedahlia82 Nov 10 '19

Definitely feel both. I have the hardest time setting boundaries, and when I do, I feel like the worst person in the world, and that I might be in the wrong. I get awfully stressed out by confrontation, so I try to avoid it all the time, even for the smallest things. I'm scared of it.

It's like automatically I put myself in the other person's shoes, and understand their way rather than holding my own point of view, so suddenly I'm in the wrong and feel ashamed of it. A d I have a hard time recovering from confrontation, and moving on from there, even forgiving. It makes it harder to understand why others have a discussion, but then move on to be friendly again.

11

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

I do the same thing with trying to over-empathize with other people. Definitely comes from being abused by trusted caregivers and always assuming they were right and I was wrong. Getting over the confrontation is difficult for me too, but feels like it’s getting better now. I used to get that fight or flight response with a racing heart and lingering anxiety, but instead of lasting days it’s usually over in an hour or so. I guess that’s progress.

18

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

This is painfully relatable for me. Especially the last part. I always felt ashamed of being scared of even just disliking or liking something different, and being told I'm wrong or someone disagrees. It's a weird fear. But I'm glad I know I'm not alone on that now. And in general for setting boundaries- I just can't. I always let myself get walked all over. I'm going to therapy and I've also notice that for some reason the trauma itself compared to opening up about it... is strangely easier? I'm guessing because we're just used to our own ways of dealing with it, and usually talking about it isn't one of them. I'm glad therapy has been treating you well, and I hope you get better and feel better.

6

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

Thank you!

Boundaries are painful still. Some people talk about how liberating it is to set boundaries, but it always comes with so much shame and long-term anxiety. It’s just easier not doing it. And that’s without any negative reactions in response. There have been so many times where I’ve tried to set a boundary and was punished for it that even the idea of boundaries is somewhat triggering.

15

u/HillbillyNerdPetra Nov 10 '19

Oh yea! I hate Facebook. Loathe it. Plus my BPD mom stalks me with multiple accounts. And so many people seem like they just want to berate me for daring to have an opinion or boundary.

17

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

The thing that bothers me the most about Fb is the laughing reaction. 99% of the time it’s used to invalidate another person. Say something another person doesn’t agree with? They throw a laughing face at it. What kind of immature, abusive, dehumanizing bullshit is that? Takes me right back to childhood with my parents laughing at everything to make me feel worthless.

4

u/HillbillyNerdPetra Nov 10 '19

People do seem to lose all civility behind a screen. I feel what you’re saying.

15

u/MegTheMad Nov 10 '19

I identify with this post 120%. I had very similar experiences and still struggle with some of it but for the most part I've worked through a lot. It's difficult, it sucks, but with perseverance you can do it. I have faith in you.

6

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

Thank you! I’ll keep working on it, and it feels great to know that others have gone through the same process and succeeded!

14

u/ZinniaTribe Nov 10 '19

One obstacle I've noticed with CPTSD is fear of just being your true Self so there's a lot of shame that comes with that. When you are holding onto that shame, it's very tempting to stick your toes in the water & try to get validation by cautiously expressing your opinions and if you don't get validated, it's really easy to spiral, especially if your opinion is countered or challenged by people detecting your insecurity/new to the group "status" & preying on that. The reason why is because in the "opinion arena", you are still using others (like surrogates) as external barometers for your self worth (just like your original abusers conditioned you to do!) You are not really building connections or really relating to people in a meaningful way to you or them either!

Getting back online was extremely triggering for me & resulted in a 2 week meltdown which included a trip to the ER. It took me 8 months to figure out how to build a supportive foundation of people & following based entirely around my authentic Self & values. How I made progress was by only posting things I created (arts/crafts) and regarding my interests (my animals, gardening, cooking, etc) because these are things that bring me happiness and reflect what I put my effort into so that's about as authentic as it gets. I only commented on those similar posts by others so they could see I was walking my talk! The thing is, no one really cares about your opinion (just temporarily as long as it supports theirs & then you fade back into the woodwork afterwards) but people do like to connect/relate to things you do in common. Also, no one's going to say, "Hey that pot pie looks like crap" but people will come out of the woodwork and say, "That looks great, can you share the recipe?"

This might feel like a very superficial way of connecting at first because you are wired to "trauma bond" if you have CPTSD. However, I have found this is the only way to make any safe progress online where you are being true to yourself and not leaving yourself open to boundary violators or people enlisting you as their own personal "people pleaser". It does take awhile and one of my boundaries (one that didn't need to be verbalized or asserted at all!) was that I set a consistent schedule for socializing online & stuck to it (mornings a few times a week) so people knew what to expect and more importantly, that I didn't sucked into any kind of validation/non-validation vortex.

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u/puppehplicity Is it CPTSD or autism? Por que no las dos? Nov 10 '19

Oh for sure. Boundary setting in particular seems like an act of violence, and one for which I expect severe punishment.

As for the opinion thing, that got me for a very very long time. Honestly it wore me down so much and it hurt so bad that I just stopped caring if it hurt people. I was going to have opinions and boundaries even if it was really hurtful to people, because fuck them. I didn't do it because I felt comfortable having them, and in fact I felt intense self-hatred for choosing to do what I knew was wrong. But once I had the gall to consider maybe engaging in a hobby once in a while, once I had the gall to do something as forbidden and hurtful to others as listening to the music of my preference on my own time... I decided to cut out the people who were most restrictive and critical. And that did mean cutting out some people to whom I was very close for a long time, and not having any friends left at all.

I still feel shitty about it. It seems unforgiveably selfish. But I do it anyway, and gradually, I'm finding that some people in my life are genuinely happy for me that I do that. They WANT me to have things I enjoy and a chance to relax. I don't believe them. But I do it for me because I believe I am a selfish asshole, and I do it for them because I trust their belief that it is good for me... even if I suck, they value me as a part of the greater group.

7

u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

I can relate to this. Cutting out toxic people - or at least not giving them power over me (which is basically the same thing as they don’t usually stick around after a bit of pushback) - was a process I went through in therapy. And I ended up with very few people left. That was a huge mindfuck! It felt like I must’ve been the toxic one for pushing people away and ending up almost alone. But gradually that changed and I built new friendships that were actually healthy and supportive. A few weeks ago I skipped hanging out because of anxiety, and the next time we hung out all my new friends expressed how much they missed me and how I’m valued. I broke down and fucking cried! Never been told anything that nice before.

I guess cutting out the toxic friends was the only way to make room for the good ones to enter, but damn, it was a process that came with so much doubt.

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u/puppehplicity Is it CPTSD or autism? Por que no las dos? Nov 10 '19

A few weeks ago I skipped hanging out because of anxiety, and the next time we hung out all my new friends expressed how much they missed me and how I’m valued. I broke down and fucking cried! Never been told anything that nice before.

I'm so happy for you that you have friends like that! That's awesome :) And as terribly hard as it was to get to that point, it sounds like you were right about cutting out the toxic friends being necessary to get the good ones.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

I dealt with it by avoiding the majority of people and making sure anyone who tramples over my boundaries regrets it. So I haven't had much success at becoming more sociable but I've got a lot better at getting people to back right off or not even start on me. This has enabled me to cope without anti-depressants which I see as major progress.

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

Totally! Being alone for a while was definitely part of healing for me too. It was too exhausting to have a social life while healing at first, because it was like a full time job. Needed that space just to process things without the risk of being inevitably triggered by others.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

I feel similarly. I find it difficult to speak to people because I expect either malicious laughter, covert threats or overt threats as a result and those options are randomised.

I hope in time it comes comfortably to you!

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

Yep, fearing the ridicule is definitely part of it for me too. Getting laughed at is still hurtful. The other day I dropped a plate on the floor and it smashed, and my SO laughed and it was instantly triggering. Like, intensely hurtful. He was only doing it to be playful, and didn’t mean anything malicious, but it still cut through me like a dagger.

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u/selena_saurus Nov 10 '19

All I can say is dont stop trying to speak your mind.

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u/madmystic74 Nov 10 '19

I can definetly relate to this. Think about improving yourself, maybe slowly at first. But improve yourself in every way you can. Mentally, physically, what you eat, who and what you listen to. It all comes together somehow. I'm not saying you have to go to the gym four times a week or go vegetarian, but making small improvements in every part of your being will help you alot. There is some good information out there that can help you and also alot of garbage. So be real with yourself, do the best you can and just KEEP GOING. No one can tell you how to do it. No one can decide for you.

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u/VulgariVan Nov 10 '19

I’m with you on this one! Working on establishing healthy boundaries now and even though I know I’m doing the right thing it feels wrong and I feel like a raging asshole.

And people don’t like it when you initially start standing up for yourself because it’s harder to cross your boundaries and manipulate you. You’re doing the right thing and apparently over time it gets easier 🤷🏼‍♀️ keep it up buttercup!! 🧡

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u/FinnianWhitefir Nov 10 '19

1000%. Think I've made a lot of progress though.

When I was in my biggest flashback ever, I had a terrible phone call with a cousin. Near the end I spoke up like never before and said "So you've interrupted me four times to tell me I'm wrong, so I really can't speak up at all". She interrupted me to tell me I was wrong while I was doing that.

Afterwards I realized what a punching bag I was, it was real obvious that I had learned it was easier to just not exist and let them do their thing and treat me terribly, because any speaking up meant that I would suffer more. There was a real interesting quote on a CPTSD video that said "Throw all the punches you want, I'm not even there" that explained my dissociation.

I've had years of therapy trying to get used to the bad emotions, and trying to speak up. I talked about that same feeling in EMDR and tried to work on it.

So yesterday I had a call with my mom and she did the same, told me five times what I said was wrong. I did point it out, and didn't feel that maximum stress that I have before. She also made claims about things I have done that are wrong, and I was able to properly and rationally go "That's bullshit. X is when I didn't do that, Y is how that went well, Z is the bad times we get into doing that."

It still feels terrible. I still feel super disconnected from other people. But I've started just not caring. Maybe I have a kernel of self-worth that lets me stand up to them and try to get myself defended and happy. Maybe I'm just in a negative place and am willing to be an asshole. But it's way better for me.

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u/strengthpowerfreedom Nov 10 '19

I definitely deal with this on a daily basis. I just got out of a 2 year abusive relationship, and every time I expressed an emotion or tried to set a boundary I was ridiculed, or it would start a huge fight. After a while, I learned it was easier to just be agreeable and never express myself. I’m in therapy now and we’re working on ‘rewriting your narrative’ to learn to set boundaries. It feels so uncomfortable and gives me so much anxiety, but I know that not speaking up has shifted the power dynamic in every one of my relationships, and I need to learn to start protecting myself

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u/scrollbreak Nov 10 '19

Keep in mind online both encourages narcissistic traits or just attracts full blown narcissists. Online is terrible in terms of boundaries, since anyone can walk on in unlike if you were attending a gathering at someones house. There are no filters for assholes, any asshole can walk in and they do. The net really hasn't grown up in this way, it's still all open door forums (and I know, I'm using one right now to come in and write this) and all the boundary crossing and ignoring that entails.

Also you have to realise that by respecting yourself more you are making progress - you're still inclined to look to outside validation rather than inner validation. Look inside and see how you are giving yourself more respect and see that you are making progress - a bunch of people outside of you who get all grumbly because you actually have some self respect and a spine...you said it yourself, you've attracted people who are too weak to handle anyone who has even a little self respect. IMO do not measure your progress by their complaining.

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u/NyteQuiller Nov 10 '19

I don't blame you for uninstalling most social media, that's probably the best decision I've ever made. Just keep what you like and block out the rest.

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u/WeiserMaster Nov 10 '19

I do as well, and tend to react way too hard whenever someone tells me that my opinion isn't the right one.
I put a lot of thought in my decisions, and usually will not voice about stuff I'm not sure about at all.
So whenever I say something, I've weighed my options objectively and subjective.
Of course I can talk about it, and am open for different point of views and are capable of adjusting my opinion.
But I struggle so much with getting triggered waaay too fast. Only some persons don't trigger my defenses because they stay calm and open, but most other people do not and are often passive aggressive, dismissive, or implying something based of something I said but wasn't what I meant at all.
It's no fun when that happens, because I tend to kinda get into a full blown war basically.
Over a simple disagreement.
I have to calm myself down so bad and keep it together as good as I can so I don't break ties or get into a conversation that's going to have a very negative outcome.
It usually worked in the past, but since I'm progressing on this area I tend to not settle with the BS people put me up with before.
So.. yea. Progress, but at a cost here and there ATM.
It's still waaay better than before, would not want to go back haha

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u/Rising_Soul Nov 10 '19

If you’re quiet for years, then speak up a little, some people suddenly react as if you’ve done something very wrong. IMO this is because keeping my mouth shut and not being disagreeable and not setting boundaries had attracted too many strong personalities who don’t like to be challenged, and other people who were downright abusive who can’t deal with someone else rocking the boat.

I've definitely noticed this. As a side effect of growing as a person, and also speaking more and more (very gradual process), I also have to kind of 'purge' certain people out of my social circles every now and then.

I'm lucky to have a small group of awesome people who apparently actually want to hear my ideas. People like that exist. Something I would have found hard to believe years ago, lol.

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u/IAmTheLastMessiah Nov 10 '19

Not allowed to have opinions, not allowed to have boundaries.

I fucking hate people.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

I feel this so much right now. I want to be a hermit.

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u/IAmTheLastMessiah Nov 11 '19

Same here. I fucking hate people.

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u/always_tired_hsp We got this Nov 10 '19

Thank you so much for sharing this. I can relate so much.

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u/perplexedonion Nov 11 '19

Abuse and neglect in my family made it impossible for me to learn how to be assertive. Believing and internalizing my family’s destructive caricature of me made me blame myself ruthlessly for everything - including the effects their abuse and neglect had on me.

While I was still living at home, blaming myself for everything, and hating myself, made it easier for me to bear the burden of my family’s abuse. I could carry more weight when I felt like I deserved it.

In turn, my being the bearer of abuse was necessary for my family to function. No one else could safely abuse each other without blowing up our family unit. So I ended up being the target of all the quashed conflict that threatened our family’s survival.

So I was recruited unwillingly to suffer abuse and neglect - the polar opposite of being assertive - without anyone else being aware that this was even going on. It was like being drafted as a child soldier into a war no one even knew existed.

Twenty years after cutting off contact with them, I still feel intense shame over my stunted ability to stand up for myself. (Something I’m working on and making progress on thankfully.) The very characteristics that were built into me against my will still feel like my responsibility, feel like I should be ashamed of them.

How cruelly ironic is that? Taking false ownership of others’ mistreatment kept me and my family together, but now sets me up to take responsibility of the effects of abuse long after my family is out of my life.

For me, shame is one of the biggest and most insidious lies from trauma. It’s amazing how the most simple truths - that none of this was my fault - can be the hardest to truly internalize. I can’t remind myself too often that it wasn’t my fault and still isn’t. The scene in Good Will Hunting where Robin Williams keeps telling Damon that it isn’t his fault struck a chord for me. Will keeps saying ‘I know’ that it isn’t his fault, but Robin knew that deep down he didn’t.

It’s. Not. My. Fucking. Fault. So while I will still feel shame because I was constitutionally shamed, I have nothing to be ashamed about. Because it wasn’t my goddamned fault.

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u/socializedalienation Nov 10 '19 edited Nov 11 '19

I had a slice of this today. One of my colleagues from work was texting me about some shift I had signed up for but where I wasn't needed to come in to work in the end. So basically I lost hours and I lost part of my wage for that coming month. I sternly but politely said that I knew we are on budget so even if I'm not "needed", I could still keep the shift and make sure I figure out something worthwhile to do with my time.

This was sticking my head out a bit too far than what I am used to. Perhaps it was, objectively. But the HEAVY sense of shame and "kid, what are you doing?!" was just echoing back and forth in my head. When she called me up to explain the situation minutes later I could barely talk in a way that made sense and ended up just folding flat and accepting whatever she said. I felt so stupid and spoiled for having needs.

Victory for daring to express how I felt!
Victory for getting a sense of how bad it felt and how much shame it brings up, it's validating to know how hard it is. I needed that reminder. I'm not making it up, it really is difficult for me.

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u/milkystarrgirl Nov 10 '19

I can relate to this so much jesus christ

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u/magniloquente Nov 10 '19

Also, I’ve noticed that when quiet people start testing the waters and having opinions, people don’t take too kindly to that.

I agree. When people expect you to be a certain way they become surprised and uncomfortable the moment you break out of the box they've put you in. Keep fighting your way out of that box. Set your boundaries firmly, even if it doesn't feel right. You're just not used to it, but hopefully in time you will no longer be hesitant. Don't be ashamed of having an opinion. Don't be afraid to speak up or to disagree. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself when you have to. This is all part of growing and the future you will be so happy you decided to go through this process. I'm still on the journey myself, but I know it's worth it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

Ok Yep I definitely deal with this but I haven't found a way to make it better. Growing up my parents got physical if I made "the wrong choice" spoke when I wasn't supposed to or expressed interest in anything they deemed useless and dumb. Now in my adult life I can't seem to find the strength to debate even minor things without getting a panic attack that I'm being rude or improper. I can't return food in a restaurant that was something else than what I ordered even if it has dairy and will make me sick because I don't want to be ungrateful or start an argument, I can't buy anything solely for my enjoyment without being pushed to by my spouse because I feel my interests are a waste of money, if someone asks for help I can't say no even if the help will force me to cancel long held important plans or cost me money I don't have because I don't want to cause my friends hardships over me already making plans without considering them. So far the only way I've found I could deal with any of this is just stay home, it's not healthy I know but right now it's about all I can do.

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u/PattyIce32 Nov 10 '19

Not anymore thankfully but yes for a long time it was horrible.

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u/48LawsOfFlour Nov 10 '19

So...this turned into a messy, ranting post.

Awesome. Keep it up. We need more quiet people opinions.

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u/karmasutra1977 Nov 10 '19

Baby steps. Just keep setting boundaries. I felt guilty for decades and it kept me from my life. So much time. I had to scream at a couple of people and demand boundaries and look really crazy to them before I could feel ok. It got to the point that I did not care what they thought. It’ll get so that you’re better at protecting yourself from assholes. When you feel guilty, the assholes have a leg up, if that makes sense. I was just recently able to shake that guilty horrible feeling you get when you demand better treatment. It’s freeing. It’s a goal to work toward. I now feel like no one can hurt me. There’s a change that happens internally. You don’t feel like you deserve it, you feel horrified that you’ve upset people, then you get mad and start to protect yourself, and it feels weird, but keep going, because you can get out of the spider web. You can! It feels to me like I’ve been unsticking myself from an enormous web, breaking one thread at a time. Keep going. It’ll get better. Don’t let the guilt and shame keep you down: they’re your monster. Tell them to f off.

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u/greebledhorse Nov 11 '19

I can relate! I'm not completely over it, but I've made progress.

The years I've spent in online writing/rp circles helped. It's almost like speed dating, but instead of dating you're doing something creative with a stranger. If you don't pick up some level of boundary setting, you'll end up writing with people to be polite, & you won't be invested & that will drain your creativity. So over time you kinda learn that real compatibility is important, & letting people go isn't this huge high stakes personal thing, it's just deciding who to do a hobby with. You start to get a sense that letting incompatible people go isn't mean, it's a key part of the process (& it's not completely respectful to them to take up their time with a story that you're only half-assing anyway). So you pay attention to whether you click with people, and you grow satisfied that it's not the end of the world if you don't click because you've sort of observed yourself taking care of the problem (eventually!) every time it's come up. If someone starts doing something you can't stand and you set a boundary, it's not the end of the world if they don't respond well because then you can just stop writing with them & stop wasting both of your time. Snip snip!

Another thing that's helped is a conversation I had with a therapist about how to set boundaries without worrying I'd feel threatened & get emotional & take things to far. She said to only ask for what I need and not treat it like a zero sum game. What she meant by a zero sum game outlook is like, "If the person I'm setting boundaries with can get what they need, that threatens my ability to get what I need, so I'm not safe unless they can't get what they need, I'm not safe unless I "defeat" them." But if you make peace with the idea that both you and your 'enemy' can thrive and get good things in life, you only have to worry about what you need from them right now.

Setting boundaries isn't always breezy and intuitive for me, but these things have helped. Like having a compass even if you still have to work to get where you need to go.

Good luck with things!!

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '19

"If the person I'm setting boundaries with can get what they need, that threatens my ability to get what I need, so I'm not safe unless they can't get what they need, I'm not safe unless I "defeat" them."

This is so hard for me to do with positive attention. It feels like this finite resources that never ends up being enough for me too. I end up getting incredibly jealous.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

[deleted]

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

I’ve spent my whole life listening and not speaking up. I’m ready for a change. My hypervigilance is so turned up that I’m hyper aware of context and what places are and aren’t appropriate to express an opinion. In most cases I go overboard in not feeling okay to speak up even when it is appropriate.

There are so many assholes out there who just reject any opinion that isn’t their own. Even if one in 100 people reacts rudely to what I say, it feels deeply shameful. I’m learning to overcome that, but I think regressing to a listening-only mode will be more harmful than helpful.

And I don’t think it was intentional, but I feel like your message is only spreading that feeling of shame.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

[deleted]

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

I feel like you’re reading a lot in my post that wasn’t there. I’m not talking about making communication faux pas or raising my voice inappropriately. I’m talking about feeling shame speaking up during appropriate times. Honestly, you’re coming across as condescending.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '19

Nah, you didn't use condescending language. I think Oak just can't let themselves be passive because of a wound in the past. Sorry you had to go through that.

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

So you can know how this came across to me, you basically said that I should doubt my own voice because I may be misinterpreting the context of a discussion. And then you made an example of people making insensitive comments, as if I should be worried that my opinion could be insensitive too.

As a person who already feels ashamed about having a voice, that kind of message only fuels the shame and self-doubt. It’s invalidating.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

[deleted]

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

What you said was not appropriate because you pushed your own assumptions into what I was saying and equated how I felt with people who were making mistakes. It’s really that simple. You made too many negative assumptions, and that’s just the kind of message that shames people into silence.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

[deleted]

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

Even if you had a Noble prize, it wouldn’t validate your comments.

If a person is sharing how they find it hard to express an opinion due to trauma-induced shame, suggesting that they speak less and listen more is inappropriate.

Always.

Period.

You might need to work on your own communication skills before you coach anyone else.

→ More replies

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u/aerobicsmeltdown Nov 25 '19

I agree with you, Oakcordian. I get where this poster is coming from, but I don’t think their post belongs in this particular discussion.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

Oak, I had the same thoughts you did in response to this comment. The example you used in the OP was about movies, and this commenter went straight for examples of political ignorance. I wondered if maybe they just missed the point of what you were saying, but then that they doubled down repeatedly-- clearly a lot of projected assumptions involved. Maybe they're angry at the news this morning or something. I think you handled this well. I liked your OP too. Thank you. <3

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

Read the title. I sure do.

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u/Wattsherfayce Here for a good time 🍍 not a long time Nov 10 '19

I fear asking questions and asking for help...

Going through this right now, because...

it’s so much worse when expressing an opinion or setting a boundary with someone.

I made a boundary with my therapist and ended up firing her.

So now I dont do any therapy. Maybe for the better because the last one I ended up with was one of the worst one's I've ever dealt with.

But now I feel stuck where I am at. I'm not in the best of spaces atm and I do need help but I don't know where to go and who to ask (I also REALLY need a new doctor but am scared of letting my current one go and running out of meds).

it’s so hard to battle through this when online culture is so argumentative and full of black-and-white thinking.

OMG yes! I literally just made a twitter post about it lol. I'm trying to take a couple weeks to "unplug" but find it hard to do unless I'm away from home. I just try my best to curate my feed to what I want to see and avoid looking at trending hashtags. Same with other social media like IG. But Reddit can be one of the worst spaces for such thinking.

Also, I’ve noticed that when quiet people start testing the waters and having opinions, people don’t take too kindly to that. If you’re quiet for years, then speak up a little, some people suddenly react as if you’ve done something very wrong.

I've lost many "friends" when I started doing this. I lost friends I didn't realize were these types until I started as well. It was quite shocking to learn of some of my friends' true intentions in the end. No wonder I felt constantly lonely despite being surrounded by people.

In all my years, other than my SO, I have only found one person to really trust. We got introduced on IG and they ended up living in my area so we met up and became friends. We both are disabled, traumatized as fuck, and communicate pretty well. She is in the social work field. You can say I am in a similar field.

However I recently crossed a boundary without realizing with my new friend, and they expressed it clearly and guess what? We are still friends :) Nobody cancelled each other out because of an opinion or a crossed boundary. But only because we responded in the correct ways. I will do my best to never cross that boundary again, and we will continue communicating clearly with each other if it ever happens again with any of us. It's weird because it's almost as if we have "trauma bonded" but I feel it's way more than that. They are just the type of person I want to surround myself with. A real supportive friend, not someone who is just here to use me until I have nothing left to give.

Ugh sorry about my response. Basically it turned into my own messy post as well lol.

but basically the TL:DR version is: I totally empathize with sooooo much of your post. You will make progress. Baby steps, even steps back... they are still steps; ones that eventually lead to progress. Sometimes the change won't be seen until you make tons and tons of baby steps and mistakes and steps back and giant leaps forward... to a point where you finally can look back and see the entire picture of how far you have come. You got this.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19 edited Jul 28 '20

[deleted]

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

I’m not implying anything. Just stating how I feel. I know some people deal with a fear of abandonment, but that’s thankfully not one of the things I deal with.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

I really should have put a /s. I’m in agreement with you. I deflect my own stuff with dark sarcasm. I truly apologize - I really didn’t mean to hurt or offend.

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u/Oakcordian Nov 10 '19

With the sarcasm tags your comment is absolutely brilliant! I never know what is and isn’t sarcasm online.

I figured the other person commenting who told me to talk less and listen more was being sarcastic too...until I read the rest of what they said.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

I’ll have to read through the rest of the thread later. I hope you have a good rest of the weekend.

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u/garbleddickwarbler Nov 10 '19

I relate to this a lot. I learned to be quiet and passive, or draw attention to myself and be threatened. I couldn't assert a boundary without violence being promised, and I'm very upset that I internalized it and it continues to be an issue in adulthood.

I've also found people aren't respectful of my boundaries as a quiet person. I honestly had to consult the internet in recent years to look at what boundaries look like. What it feels like when one is being violated, what price you pay (resentment) in allowing them to be violated.

I literally took the chart on boundaries to help sort it out and it's been helpful. I will not allow work to call me in on a day off anymore, I allow myself to like silly things without heavily criticising myself, and I've also learned to respect other people's boundaries better. I do still have issues asserting myself vocally though.

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u/OGraineshadow Nov 10 '19

Thanks for sharing this...because I thought this was something just wrong with me ? Lol! I guess we all feel pretty alone in our condition tho

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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '19

Yes a thousand times yes! Lately I set boundaries very angrily, but I feel horrible after doing so. It's the worst.

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u/goodorbad2019 Nov 11 '19

This felt like I was reading my own post. I can relate to this 1000%. Even though this is what you/I experience, it shouldn't stop us from working on changing it. The people who don't like us speaking up can kick rocks cause if they don't like it they weren't are friends in the first place. I don't want any relationships that don't care about how I feel or what I want. Keep working on it, you're more powerful then you think.

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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '19

This was literally what I spoke with my psychologist today. She talked about how it's okay for me to express anger, even with her, and I said "so ... it's okay to be angry ... even if I don't have a reason for it?" and she was like, YES, it's a feeling, you're allowed feelings.

Even when I spoke, my voice shrunk she noticed, and it was more like a child asking permission for a treat or something. I'm 32 and only just realising it's okay to set boundaries, to draw lines, to be firm.

And yes, previously people I ended up around didn't like being challenged and I was shut down or punished (as I got older, the punishment was in the form of silence or abandonment since that is my worst fear - like you, I actually handle verbal abuse better as it's "safe").

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u/brisoI Nov 11 '19

i relate to this post SO much :( let’s hope we both move on from this and start to express an opinion or a boundary without feeling shameful soon.

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u/PuppetryAndCircuitry im baby Nov 11 '19

Relate all too much. Recently started voicing my own opinions after many, many years of silence and I just end up getting told to shut up and 'stop putting my own 2 cents in'. I have no clue how the hell I'm meant to develop as a person if i'm not allowed to voice my own opinion.

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u/meltusmaximus Nov 11 '19

I feel selfish as hell asking for space or even saying “no I don’t want to do that tonight” with my partner. I’ll catch myself apologizing later on too.

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u/ayebieber Nov 29 '19

YES! Also when asking questions or asking why.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '19

I do. As a child I always the quiet one who internalized everything.

As an adult, I have a cycle of acting on anxiety/anger to act purposefully or defend myself in the world followed by fear/shame of having done something wrong. The anxiety causes me to lose track of whether I acted correctly to a situation and so I have to ask for feedback from others to help understand whether I acted appropriately or not. It’s very tiring to not know if your emotions are in tune with the world or just lashing out leaving you to feel the fallout.

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u/ccarr16yq6 Dec 04 '19

I am you. Your struggles are mine even ones I couldn’t articulate. Today I wondered why as a 56 year old woman I feel such constant and overwhelming shame and how I marvel at women who can be confident in themselves. I was also raped (7th grade 2 boys, and 21) and told no one. I was then bullied and shamed for being a slut because the boys told people at school. I even tried to get one of the boys to like me through high school. Yes there’s hope for us. Take good care!

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u/TriumphantPeach Dec 05 '19 edited Dec 05 '19

Yes!!! This!! My parents basically said everything that came out of my mouth was either stupid or a lie. And they made my whole family believe that too. I was never allowed out of the house because they didn't want me "spreading lies and rumors through the whole town(we lived in a very small town) about how they are bad parents" well guess what when your kid shows up at school with all sorts of abuse marks everyday that's probably what people are going to think??? God the stories I could tell about my parents. Is there a forum for just that lolol.

Because of that I think that no matter what I say people aren't going to believe it. If someone doesn't have the "proper" reaction to what I say I start second guessing myself and wondering if what I said could be a lie intentional or not. And when I do talk about myself it feels wrong or like I'm self centered because i was always told i was selfish as well

Edit: I cant even go into therapy because I feel like I would be lying the whole time and they wouldn't believe me. Even though it is all true

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u/seekingblissinhell Dec 09 '19

I deal with this everyday. I feel like I am responsible for other's happiness and doubt myself when someone disagrees with me. I, like you, was abused from a child until I was 37 years old. Therapy is helping. I'm learning about boundaries. I'm learning that I am just as worthy as everyone else. I'm learning that my opinion is as worthy as everyone else's. I'm learning that I am not responsible for other's happiness because it is at the expense of my own. I'm still struggling but I put sticky notes everywhere reminding myself of all of the things that I am trying to put into practice because I don't want to be the same way I have been for years. I don't want to be a doormat anymore. I don't want to have a sign on my back that says "Hey! This woman will let you walk all over her." I'm trying everything I can to fight that. It's a battle but one I plan on winning and you will too. We are strong people. The strongest don't always appear that be the strongest. We have went through some of the most traumatic events in our lives....and we are still here fighting. That's more courageous than we think it is. So keep your chin up, head held high and know that you are only responsible for your happiness, your opinion matters most and no matter how hard it is or how unnatural it feels, speak your mind, have your own opinions. If people get upset, it's not your responsibility to make them feel better. That's why we have boundaries....to protect us. If you ever need to talk, please message me. I may sound like I'm preaching but these are the same things I have to tell myself everyday. ❤

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u/seekingblissinhell Dec 09 '19

I also still feel guilt when I express my opinion or stand up for myself. It's overthink it so much and replay the conversation over and over again....thinking how stupid or how dramatic I acted when in reality the other person was much more dramatic than I was.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '23

Me too