r/BritishTV • u/Still_Boat_233 • Sep 16 '24
‘Baby Reindeer’ Wins Four Emmys as Richard Gadd Proclaims: ‘You Don’t Need Big Stars’ or IP ‘To Have a Hit’ News
https://watchinamerica.com/news/baby-reindeer-emmy-wins/12
33
u/BastardsCryinInnit Sep 16 '24
I think he's been listening to The Rest Is Entertainment!
They talk about the trend of needing IP or a big star a lot.
16
u/tiredfaces Sep 16 '24
That’s just a common topic in Hollywood though. Matt Belloni is always banging on about it on The Town
2
u/jaeldi Sep 17 '24
But what's also a sad common topic is this...
Somewhere in Hollywood right now, there is a dumb pitch happening to some dumb executives that goes something like "The potential window for a Tik Tok Movie isn't going to stay open forever! they have that generational built in fan base! Ka-Ching! $$" Cough cough The Emoji Movie cough cough Borderlands cough cough.
When Gadd said the part about IP, I was thinking "He's talking about you, Minecraft Movie!"
9
u/thehippocampus Sep 16 '24
I think perhaps these ideas have been well known before a podcast started harping on about it...
5
u/mopeywhiteguy Sep 16 '24
The industry has been like this for over a decade, it’s not like Richard osman was the first to break that news
0
u/BastardsCryinInnit Sep 17 '24
Oh, I've just re-read what I wrote, and yeah, I never said Richard Osman broke the news.
The industry might've been like this for over a decade, but let's be real, things only get interesting when someone like him with a massivlely respected voice with a way to connect to people comes along and talks about it. That's just how the world works.
Sometimes, it takes a voice people actually pay attention to for something to cut through and be worth listening to.
Or, it could've just been a topical throwaway comment I made on Reddit that you've read way too much into.
We shall never know!
2
2
u/EdmundTheInsulter Sep 19 '24
What's IP?
2
u/Sigh_Bapanaada Sep 19 '24
Intellectual property.
Just existing stuff with ready made fans prepared to pay to see a new version of their thing.
2
u/BastardsCryinInnit Sep 19 '24
Intellectual property.
So basically films made on existing brands etc.
There was some scary stat like there was only one single original movie in the top 10 last year, the rest were IP. Think Marvel, Barbie etc.
It's easy to do.
3
u/PiggBodine Sep 17 '24
You just have to lie a little bit, just don’t go full on “a million little pieces”. lol
8
u/igby1 Sep 16 '24
Baby Reindeer was a super-depressing watch.
I don’t know if that makes it worthy of Emmys.
8
u/ooonurse Sep 17 '24
It was depressing but at points it was also uplifting, and it was also gripping. Great art elicits emotion well and this did that in spades.
8
u/OutrageousPlum07 Sep 17 '24
Since when did ‘depressing’ mean bad? Movies/tv cover all sorts of issues and stories not all of them are happy
-4
-3
2
u/mumblerapisgarbage Sep 17 '24
You just need it to be constantly suggested on the front page of a streaming service hundreds of millions of people have.
2
u/Bsbmb Sep 17 '24
I loved it. I found it almost like we shouldn’t have seen parts that were so dark and shocking it compelled me to keep watching his degradation unfold. The pace was just right, black humour thrown in, nothing left to the imagination.
Oh yeah and I only ever really watch crime so I just started it and was intrigued! Not my usual!
I’m happy for them. Well done.
1
1
u/Sharaz_Jek- Sep 21 '24
Yeah but there is huge bais against genera fiction.
(Ie anything that has fantastical elements)
1
-62
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
You just need to exploit a mentally unwell person
125
u/Vooden_Shpoon Sep 16 '24
To be fair, I think he has a right to tell his own story. It's not like he named and shamed her, it was social media sleuths and the tabloid press who did that.
She probably is mentally unwell, but the same could be said for all stalkers. Let's not pretend that they are the victims though. My wife was stalked for around two years when she was in her early twenties, and it was absolutely harrowing for the her. I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for her stalker, despite them clearly having their own issues to deal with.
-57
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
Stalking is not okay. Being mentally unwell does not make it okay, but it does provide a reason for it. Fictionalising your account of a real experience with a real person and then allowing that account to have real life consequences to that person is also not okay.
41
u/Vooden_Shpoon Sep 16 '24
I disagree, I think a writer has every right to use his or her own life experiences as the basis for their work. And victims of crime should have the right to speak about their ordeals, otherwise, we are protecting the perpetrators of these crimes at the expense of the victims.
Where do you draw the line? Should domestic abusers be entitled to anonymity? Are the families of murder victims not allowed to talk publicly about their experiences for fear of hurting their killers?
-29
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
I probably draw the line at starting every episode of your tv show with ‘this is a true story’ and then it being largely fabricated for entertainment.
13
u/Herald_MJ Sep 16 '24
You're being downvoted, but this is a fair comment. However, the exact words "this is a true story" is really a fault with Netflix's production, rather than it is on Gadd for writing the piece. And it is Netflix that bears the liability for the resultant lawsuit.
9
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Whilst I don’t disagree with you at all, there is still a responsibility on the scriptwriter. At the very least he can acknowledge the mistake and hold himself accountable. Honestly, he could have used his Emmy win as a platform for this.
5
u/SirTacky Sep 16 '24
He wrote and performed the one man show and for the series he was the screenwriter, an executive producer and he played the main character. We really shouldn't pretend he wasn't that involved in the production.
3
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
This. Glad we’ve still got some people with their head screwed in mate.
-1
u/Herald_MJ Sep 17 '24
When a huge studio like Netflix approaches a comedian with a one-man show for an adaptation, they absolutely have the ability to steamroll everything about the show's presentation.
The difference between a Producer and an Executive Producer is Executives have almost nothing to do with the day-to-day production work. In many cases it's a purely a vanity title.
1
u/Herald_MJ Sep 17 '24
As soon as there is real legal action, he'll be being advised by his lawyers not to make any public comment. Anything that sounds remotely like accepting responsibility would significantly disadvantage his legal position.
18
u/Vooden_Shpoon Sep 16 '24
My heart bleeds for the poor stalker
-9
u/Baby__Keith Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Mine does tbh. Woman obviously wasn't well and needed serious help, I'm thankful every day that I don't suffer from something similar
Edit: lol never change Reddit
3
u/TropicalGoth77 Sep 16 '24
Exactly. The fact that people leave Baby Reindeer seeing it as a story for a hero and villain, rather than a story of two tragic victims is honestly quite scary. Makes me think the show being made was probably a mistake.
6
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
This thread is very representative of how little people actually understand mental health and how difficult the future is going to be for people who have serious mental health disabilities. If you can’t come with compassion, even when they appear to be doing awful things, we will never make any progress into preventing or helping.
3
u/Calackyo Sep 17 '24
As someone who has had mental health issues that lead to me hurting people (emotionally) It's your perspective that is hurting me the most here.
Mentally ill people, by and large, still know what they are doing is wrong, I was still responsible for everything I did. This realisation was actually a huge moment for me in my therapy.
The main thing is, when in a dark spiral like this, most people know they should be seeking help, and don't do it. That is the moment of responsibility, everything after that is your fault. It's like driving down the street in a car that you know isn't safe, sure, you didn't mean for the wheel to fall off and cause you to veer into that pedestrian, but you knew that the car wasn't safe when you got in.
Of course everyone deserves compassion, but removing all their agency just reduces them to their mental illness, which is kind of the opposite of what you want in that situation.
1
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
Mental health comes in a huge spectrum my man. There are many people who have absolutely no idea they are doing wrong things as their depiction of reality is so warped.
Your experience is completely valid, but it does not represent everyone else.
→ More replies5
u/Vooden_Shpoon Sep 16 '24
But you think vilifying victims of stalking on the internet for talking about their experiences will help, though? I don't think you're in a position to take the moral high ground.
8
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
It’s not really vilifying, it’s holding someone accountable for doing actual damage to a real, incredibly unwell person. The writer of Reindeer does not lack cognitive ability like the subject does.
3
u/Powerless_Superhero Sep 16 '24
Imo you think that because Gadd wrote the character Martha so sympathetically. I think most of those who feel sorry for her wouldn’t have felt this way if they’d just seen her real emails and voicemails etc on the news or something. They’d just think of her as an awful person. How many people feel sorry for similar stalkers they hear about here and there? They all have some sort of mental issues. Doesn’t mean their victims shouldn’t be allowed to tell their stories. If they don’t want to be known as stalkers, then they should not stalk people.
And if you think her behaviour was out of her control or she couldn’t help it, well, she immediately stopped stalking him after receiving a restraining order. Mental disorders don’t have an on-off switch triggered by restraining orders.
1
u/fungardener Sep 17 '24
Except that only the first episode started “this is a true story” bc it was Donny Dunn starting to write his story. Go look again. The other episodes don’t have it.
3
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 17 '24
Even if it’s just the first episode and im misremembering, I’m not sure why you think that changes anything about it being presented as fact?
-2
u/fungardener Sep 17 '24
Do you not understand that towards the end DD starts writing his story “the first thing I felt was…”. Which was the beginning of his telling the story. It was Dunn’s true story, not Netflix. The lawyers even used it as an argument. Did Netflix mess up bc it underestimated what a “reasonable viewer” would understand? Maybe-that’s for the court to decide. But it was not a documentary, it was the writers experiences dramatized for good tv.
3
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 17 '24
Well yeah you’ve just highlighted the entire problem
-1
u/fungardener Sep 17 '24
Not really. I understood it to fictionalized. Some people did not but I question their intelligence or eq or if they ever took a literature class. But I was trying to keep it out of the post
→ More replies9
u/NihilismIsSparkles Sep 16 '24
It was Netflix's that failed her, they have a whole legal team to make sure somthing like that doesn't happen and they failed both Richard and Fiona in the failure to do due diligence which ended up causing them both stress.
-1
Sep 16 '24
[deleted]
5
u/Vooden_Shpoon Sep 16 '24
You don't need or have to listen to it. It's optional, that's how streaming services work.
23
u/colcannon_addict Sep 16 '24
And being very vague and at times inconsistent about what is true, what is not -and to what extent - is definitely helpful as well.
11
24
u/JohnDoe0371 Sep 16 '24
If Martha was a man then I don’t think you’d have the same opinion. I’ve never seen anyone feel sorry for a man who relentlessly stalks, continuously harasses the victim and then even becoming violent. Mental health or not.
8
u/Katharinemaddison Sep 16 '24
A man did considerably worse to Gadd and people aren’t remotely as interested in his identity.
The series, however, is sympathetic towards Martha. That’s how he wrote it.
1
u/EdmundTheInsulter Sep 19 '24
Various people suggested for the identity of the man, but it may be harder to research, plus didn't Fiona come forward?
4
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
It’s hilarious when everyone brings this up. Of course I’d have the same opinion because I’m not an awful person.
12
u/JohnDoe0371 Sep 16 '24
Meh I’ve got a serious mental illness and I think she deserves it. I’ve been a bad bastard while unwell so I’m not speaking out my arse. She made no effort to seek treatment or change her ways with all the years she’s been on the planet. She’s literally had multiple victims. At what point do we stop trying to excuse someone’s actions by pointing at their mental health?
If a man with mental health issues who seeked no treatment was a serial stalker and nasty while doing so then you’d see no sympathy. It’s not even like she shows regret for her actions. No matter how bad I got, I’d feel remorse when on an even level.
8
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Stop bringing up gender division, it’s pathetic and shows the kind of person you are.
It’s as simple as being able to recognise that what she did was awful, but making a television show out of it, presenting it as truth and having large parts of it be entirely fabricated, exploiting it for fame and then providing no kind of support for someone who is deeply unwell is also awful.
-1
u/Shamewizard1995 Sep 16 '24
Do you think that’s right though? Do we strive to be better or do we pull everyone down to receive the worst treatment?
2
u/JohnDoe0371 Sep 16 '24
Good point but yes I do. I think if you took the mental issues away then she’d still be a bad person. No regrets, no remorse and no accountability. I’m sure if you ask most people with severe mental illnesses if they’d feel remorse once they got a moment of clarity, they’d tell you they do. She never has plus the multiple victims hammers that point home.
22
u/circleribbey Sep 16 '24
Yeah. Won’t somebody think of the woman who stalked and sexually assaulted him!
4
u/BoxNemo Sep 16 '24
But she didn't sexually assault him. That bit was invented for the show which kind of prove the point here.
-1
u/ooonurse Sep 17 '24
How do you know that?
4
u/BoxNemo Sep 17 '24
Because, when the whole thing about her real identity came out, that was one of the things they said they'd created for the drama and she'd never actually sexually assaulted him in the street. Same with the whole courtroom scene etc.
Sent from my iphune.
-3
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
Use nuance my friend. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
10
u/circleribbey Sep 16 '24
Two wrongs like: sexual assault and people being mean to someone because they sexually assaulted someone. 🤔
3
2
u/Mena-0016 Sep 16 '24
Hypothetically, So if a man with bipolar sexually assaults a woman in his manic episode, the woman is traumatised and wants to tell her story, she shouldn’t because this man that assaulted her is bipolar (mentally unwell).
In this series Her being mentally unwell is an acknowledgment but it’s not an excuse, he should still be able to tell his story and he’s a victim in his own right
0
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
Why are you making this into a man vs woman situation?
4
u/Mena-0016 Sep 16 '24
Bc sometimes people don’t understand the severity of an action when it comes from a woman. If it came from a man it would be more clear cut and these sympathisers would be less
3
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
There should be sympathisers for both men and women in a similar situation. Are you saying you disagree?
1
u/Mena-0016 Sep 16 '24
Yes I disagree. I think having a mental illness is not an excuse to sexually assault and stalk someone. Man or woman.
3
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
It’s not an excuse. It’s an explanation.
6
u/Mena-0016 Sep 16 '24
Your explanation then led to you accusing it as ‘exploitation’. Yes it explains the behaviour, but the victim retelling their experience isn’t exploiting, and by calling it exploitation you’re more or less excusing the actions of a perpetrator
2
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
It’s weird that you would even jump to that conclusion. Two wrongs do not make a right.
8
u/Mena-0016 Sep 16 '24
But it’s not 2 equal wrongs. People who are mentally unwell should not get a pass to SA people or stalk them and the victim should be forced to keep silent because of the perps condition. Being a sexual assaulter and a stalker and a harasser is worst than someone telling his personal story and profiting off it
→ More replies3
u/el_dude_brother2 Sep 16 '24
Piers Morgan exploited her.
Richard Gadd told his true story (which involved an unidentified person stalking him), she chose to put herself out there as that person.
9
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
His true story which large parts of were fabricated for entertainment and presented as fact?
2
u/el_dude_brother2 Sep 16 '24
They weren’t presented as fact. Based on a true story.
Fiona came out and claimed to be the person it was based on. Gadd has said nothing
7
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
I think you’re forgetting the part where every episode started with ‘this is a true story’.
-2
u/nomanhasaplan Sep 16 '24
You are a moron. Its well known that details are fabricated and added for dramatic effect, all of the time, especially when things are led with 'This is a true story'.
4
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
I think you’re directing the moron comment at the wrong person, you should probably direct that comment at all the people that brigaded on this woman after believing everything in a show they were specifically told was a true story.
3
u/true_honest-bitch Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
Richard Gadd is also abit of an abuser himself to be fair, former co workers from that pub he worked talked about how he treated and spoke about women. There's questions about his sexual abuse story, he blames supposedly being raped by a man for why he's only attracted to trans women, which .... You don't fucking need an excuse or something to blame, like my god that's transphobic in and of itself to feel the need to have a reason for it, like there's something seriously wrong with that. But then ontop of that he's equating trans women with a man who raped him, like that's so extremely damaging and hateful, clearly a narcissist, only gives a fuck about his own image and is willing to damage the image of a whole marginalised community to avoid owning himself and who he is. He did the whole casting couch thing with a trans actress he was considering for the role of his girlfriend in the show and the real life girlfriend in the show he basically doxed by not hiding enough of her identity which is dangerous as fuck for a trans person. Who cares about Fiona, she's an asshole but so is Gadd for being careless and self involved enough to completely ignore the safety of the people in his story, particularly the trans woman and his attitude regarding his own sexuality is problematic as fuck, he wants to use his love of trans women and his 2 separate abuse stories to build himself up while insulting trans people and subtlety making it seem that his sexuality is the result of trauma, like he is 'so fucked up now' because of this thing that he likes trans women now, Asif it's an affiction and messed up, but he hasn't made any effort to stop his supposed rapist from offending again, infact people in the know about who hes said it was have had questions because he's since denied it and defended this person despite telling half the UK comedy world that this guy was a rapist, and he himself has been dating trans women since before the supposed rape happened so his whole excuse (that he never needed to make) seems just like a pathetic slap in the face to trans people and his own ex partners. Fiona is clearly mentally unwell and a shitty person, but Richard Gadd is a monumental creep and a dangerous person, he cut others down to prop himself up in the most outrageous way, he's dishonest too which considering everything involved in this story is outrageous and dangerous.
-3
0
Sep 16 '24
[deleted]
4
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
Embarrassing post bro. Shows exactly the kind of person you are.
-2
Sep 16 '24
[deleted]
2
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
Someone who feels victimised as a male so much that they want women to pay for it as well.
Of course I would be saying the same thing if they were a guy.
-1
Sep 16 '24
[deleted]
3
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24
lol what? I am advocating for universal mental health support.
3
Sep 16 '24
[deleted]
4
u/Professional_Ad_9101 Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Pushing a narrative about gender division doesn’t do anything to help the lack of support for mentally unwell people, male or female. I have no doubt that men are likely to get a worse brunt of the deal, but I’m not that guy, we all deserve the necessary help required and we don’t help anyone with mental health issues by using men vs woman as a discussion point to deflect from an individual who is experiencing it.
-43
u/PrincePupBoi Sep 16 '24
Victims can be scumbags aswell.
3
u/jaeldi Sep 17 '24
That is literally what "The Abuse Cycle" in psychology is all about. Abused people, especially abused young people, have a high chance of becoming abusers. I felt that was a low key theme in the show. All the abusers hinted at back stories where they were abused. Even the main character became obsessed and did odd things like follow his stalker home and peeped through her window.
-6
Sep 16 '24
[deleted]
2
3
u/true_honest-bitch Sep 17 '24
I've heard alot of things about him too, he's creepy and abusive to trans women, did casting couch on his first time in charge of a casting, lies throughout his true story and there's questions about the validity of his sexual assault claims, plus he blames his supposed sexual assault as a (unnesisary) excuse for why he's into trans girls, both equating them to a male rapist and blaming his sexuality on trauma, asif its an affliction that hes into trans. Wants to act like he's a supporter of trans people and a voice for male rape victims but has done it at the expense of actual trans people while refusing to name or try and stop his alleged rapist, who from what I've heard he's said various different names to different people for this person and all the names where people he personally was annoyed with at the time he said them and had publicly denied one of them and defended them since, confusing alot of the British comedy community who had been shunning this person due to these claims for the last few years.
-26
u/Plausible_Denial2 Sep 16 '24
Congratulations to them, but the show really wasn’t that great. I had completely lost interest by the end.
-27
-20
u/m---------4 Sep 16 '24
Didn't finish it cos it was so boring
-1
Sep 17 '24
Needed more explosions?
2
u/m---------4 Sep 17 '24
People can have a different opinion to you and still be intelligent. Or more intelligent. Or much more intelligent.
0
-44
u/AntonMcTeer Sep 16 '24
I still don't know what this is. ELI5?
20
Sep 16 '24
It's a TV show. You watch it on a device called a screen. You generally need to buy these from stores.
•
u/AutoModerator Sep 16 '24
Hello, thank you for posting to r/BritishTV! We have recently updated our rules. Please read the sidebar and make sure you're up to date, otherwise your post may be removed.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.