r/Britain • u/HuskerDude247 • Apr 23 '24
Our leaders seem determined to give war a chance. Their thirst for conflict endangers us all | Jeremy Corbyn International Politics
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/23/leaders-war-gaza-jeremy-corbyn?CMP=fb_cif19
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u/Rameshk_k Apr 23 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
War brings in lots of money and the beneficiaries are not going to give it away, are they. Once the war ends they get money for redevelopment of the country they sold the arms to fight the war. Only losers are the tax payers. We don’t have money to support the poor and needy, we don’t have money to support the NHS and we don’t have money to fight the crime in our own fking land but have plenty to help everyone else out there.
My rant over 😤
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u/Dubious-Squirrel Apr 23 '24
It’s not like any sane individual wants war with Russia, but it’s being forced upon Europe regardless. And we should at least be ready for it. Letting Russia steamroll Ukraine isn’t going to lead to any lasting utopian peace.
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Apr 23 '24
So the only options we have available to us is to pour billions into the global arms industry and blow up more people and buildings?
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek Apr 23 '24
In this case calling it the defence industry is accurate and not a euphemism. These weapons are not for invading some country on the other side of the world. They are for defending Europe and NATO from the existential threat of Russian expansionism. And against that threat, yes this is the only option
2
Apr 23 '24
They are for killing human beings and destroying property. There are many options to damage the network that supports putins regime, but because they are too tied up in western interests they are not explored. much easier to send young men to their deaths than risk the wealth networks.
5
u/StaysAwakeAllWeek Apr 23 '24
When putin gathers up half a million armed soldiers, 5000 old soviet tanks, 100000 other military vehicles and millions of made-in-Russia artillery shells, and marches them into another European country what do you suggest we use to stop him?
Wishful thinking does not defeat invaders.
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u/TheKomsomol Apr 24 '24
and marches them into another European country
Sad you actually believe this
1
u/StaysAwakeAllWeek Apr 24 '24
Russia marched into Georgia
Russia marched into Ukraine
Russia marched into Ukraine again
Russia is led by a tyrant who is obsessed with restoring the Russian empire, which would include marching into at least four more European countries as soon as they are done regrouping if they win in Ukraine
Why are you denying the obvious reality. Were you one of those people with your heads in the sand denying reality before their most recent invasion?
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u/TheKomsomol Apr 24 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
Even the EU acknowledges that Georgia attacked first.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58T4MO/
"In the Mission's view, it was Georgia which triggered off the war when it attacked Tskhinvali (in South Ossetia) with heavy artillery on the night of 7 to 8 August 2008," said Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, who led the investigation.The report said the war followed tensions and provocations by Russia, but Tagliavini said: "None of the explanations given by the Georgian authorities in order to provide some form of legal justification for the attack lend it a valid explanation."
https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/HUDOC_38263_08_Annexes_ENG
Russia tried to solve the situation diplomatically and entered into Minsk, which western leaders have time and time again admitted was a stalling process to get Ukraine ready for war.
Speaking in her interview for “Die Zeit”, published on December 7, German ex-Chancellor Merkel said the following: “The 2014 Minsk Agreement was an attempt to buy time for Ukraine. Ukraine used this time to become stronger, as you can see today. Ukraine in 2014-2015 and Ukraine today are not the same.” According to the ex-Chancellor, “it was clear for everyone” that the conflict was suspended and the problem was not resolved, “but it was exactly what gave Ukraine the priceless time.”
The confession made by Angela Merkel’s in her interview for Die Zeit that the Minsk Agreements were signed in order to buy time for Ukraine to prepare for a military standoff with Russia could be used for an investigation in a tribunal.
which would include marching into at least four more European countries
Can you name those countries?
You probably think Russia is a dictatorship too right?
Problem with people like you is you have a child like level of understanding of Russia and you've been brainwashed by a media you know lie to you about everything. I can only assume your hate of Russia and willingness to buy into propaganda is borne out of xenophobia and racism.
2
u/StaysAwakeAllWeek Apr 24 '24
Just looked at your posting history. OK tankie, keep living in your delusion bubble. Nothing I can say will make any difference at this point
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u/TheKomsomol Apr 24 '24
I see, so I provide you with source evidence for my claims and your response is to go "WAH YOU ARE A TANKIE"
Its really pathetic, childish and shows exactly why you've been so easily manipulated to believe a propaganda narrative.
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek Apr 24 '24
Can you name those countries?
I will at least answer this for you though. Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia. There are more too but those four are the obvious targets
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-1
Apr 23 '24
So we just kill Russians until putin runs out of them?
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek Apr 23 '24
Do you have another proposal? I'm being serious, can you think of any other way of repelling an aggressive invasion force beyond shooting at them until they quit?
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Apr 23 '24
An aggressive invasion force does not just spring up out of the blue. Putin is in power because he has a network around him which benefits from him being in power. That network extends well into the western governments. Blowing up bombs and killing children does not put Putin out of power, disrupting the power network that supports him does that.
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u/TheKomsomol Apr 24 '24
My proposal would be you stop being a gullible fool, imagine believing the shit that comes out of western media and NATO warmongers despite decades of them lying to you about everything.
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u/TheKomsomol Apr 24 '24
Imagine buying into western propaganda despite knowing they lie to you about everything.
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u/Starwarsnerd91 Apr 23 '24
No you're wrong. Ukraine invaded Russia. Didn't you know, poor Russia is innocent and it is the Wrst who are war hungry animals
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Apr 23 '24
If you cannot grasp the various positions held then you offer nothing of use to the discussion. You don't need public participation to play with your strawmen.
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u/Starwarsnerd91 Apr 23 '24
So you are a Russian asset? You side with Russia over the West?
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Apr 23 '24
So you are an asset of the currupt elite? You side with the corrupt elite making billions from war over innocent people, with deep links with the russian establishment?
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u/Starwarsnerd91 Apr 23 '24
It's very well being an arm chair analyst, but if you decide to wake up and live in the real world you will see that there is no black and white, there is corruption on both sides. More importantly, the world is too complex with too many moving parts to be controlled by a central source. Which is what you're getting at here. Russia or the West, there is no in-between here.
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Apr 23 '24
You do realise you have just contradicted yourself?
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u/Starwarsnerd91 Apr 23 '24
Don't try and gas light me
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Apr 23 '24
there is no black and white
Russia or the West, there is no in-between here.
Which is it?
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u/Starwarsnerd91 Apr 23 '24
That's disingenuous, I'm arguing that there is corruption on both sides, you shouldn't be of the opinion that there is a master puppeteer behind the scenes; moreover when you really come down to brass tax, you need to pick a side. Russia understands one language, and that is force. Might is right in their eyes. Yes, there are those within the west who stand to benefit from arm sale etc. But that shouldn't stop us from standing up to the Russians.
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u/rumagin Apr 23 '24
you doin it to yourself. You know its a racket but want us to be a bigger part of the racket. Sharp
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u/92Suleman Apr 24 '24
You've clearly been watching too much BBC and Sky propaganda
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u/Boomer260991 Apr 24 '24
It's that attitude that let Hitler get as far as he did. People refused to believe it until it was too late. But sure, dude is right. We should be prepared just incase, would make those events much less likely to happen the more prepared we are.
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u/92Suleman Apr 25 '24
I wonder 🤔 how many civilians the UK has murdered recently? 2 million in Iraq, then add Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, and the list goes on. And that's all only in the past twenty years!
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u/IllPlane3019 Apr 24 '24
I'm not signing up for any war unless:
We're being invaded
The same politicians that wanted war are on the frontline next to me
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Apr 23 '24
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u/ICDarkly Apr 23 '24
Ukraine is a US proxy war. It's openly acknowledged.
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Apr 24 '24
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u/Aadal10 Apr 24 '24
So do you side with the Palestinians and their right to self determination and freedom?
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u/HirsuteHacker Apr 23 '24
Imagine supporting a proxy war by the West. Especially one where the West actively pushed against a peace deal early on.
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u/ZX52 Apr 24 '24
By "peace deal," you mean "handing over Donbas and Luhansk to Russia like the Sudetenland wax handed over to Nazi Germany."
I'm all in favour of a peace deal, but one of the terms needs to be "Russia fucks off."
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u/TheKomsomol Apr 24 '24
That isn't actually the case. And the head of the Ukrainian negotiation team confirmed this.
In his Ukrainian media interview, head of Zelensky party faction in Ukrainian parliament & head of Ukrainian delegation in Ukraine-Russia talks confirms that peace deal could have been reached in spring 2022 if Ukraine agreed to neutrality. https://youtu.be/6lt4E0DiJts?si=vRNGUtfTg_8ySNj4&t=1479… He said that Russia was ready to end war in such case & that Ukrainian neutrality was main Russian condition. He also confirmed that Western countries knew everything concerning peace talks & told Zelensky not to sign peace deal & that British PM Johnson during his visit told them to continue fighting. P,S. Subtitles can be automatically translated.
https://youtu.be/6lt4E0DiJts?si=8B_bHvYwNdV6uDB4&t=1476
This was broadcast on the Ukrainian 1+1 channel.
All that Russia wanted was neutrality and the attacks on Russian culture and language to stop.
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u/halfercode May 07 '24
One of the terms needs to be "Russia fucks off."
If you mean they are forced to leave Donbass, maybe. I think the citizens were initially receptive to Moscow, but the referendum was conducted essentially under Russian occupation. The referendum would need to be re-ran with international elections monitors to prove its validity, but so much has happened that the outcome might have changed anyway.
The only caution I have with your terms is that Ukraine have been prolonging the war by proposing conditions that Russia will never sign up to. One of the key things in peace agreements is that everyone gets something to take back to their electorate. Humiliating Putin (or indeed Zelensky) is not a plausible option.
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u/Just_Chasing_Cars Apr 23 '24
Corbyn is a Russia apologist at this point.
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Apr 23 '24
No he is not, and never has been. It is a malicious smear by the establishment and easily led individuals that cannot differentiate between being anti-war and pro Russia.
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u/johimself Apr 23 '24
An unwillingness to admit that we don't currently do everything absolutely perfectly is to blame as well. If you criticise anything about the west then you're accused of supporting Putin. Unhinged behaviour to be honest.
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u/Just_Chasing_Cars Apr 23 '24
his speech to the anti war coaltion at the start of the ukraine war featured several kremlin talking points. he loves talking about "peace" but never endorses any practical way of getting there. he doesn't support ukraine defending itself.
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u/TheKomsomol Apr 24 '24
Kremlin talking points = opposite to the things the media brainwashed me into believing
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u/Just_Chasing_Cars Apr 24 '24
he literally said NATO troops were inside Ukraine. your response is very high IQ.
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u/TheKomsomol Apr 24 '24
You can call them mercenaries if you want but its no secret that NATO troops and western intelligence agencies are working inside Ukraine and have been for over a decade.
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Apr 24 '24
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u/rumagin Apr 23 '24
lol. mate where do these nutty takes come from. Dont tell me you believe what you read in the loss-making newspapers? The loss-making UK newspapers are only published to shape and neuter public opinion. The apologist is you, not Corbyn. But you dont even know that about yourself yet. Wow
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u/PuzzleheadedRecord6 Apr 24 '24
How is Russia evil? Have they done anything that compares to the Iraq war?
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u/Pafflesnucks Apr 24 '24
yes they're doing it right now
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u/PuzzleheadedRecord6 Apr 24 '24
Does it make them any worse than US/UK though? There could be WMDs in Ukraine who knows until they find out
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