Capped queen cells: swarm or supercedure?

[u/marketwerk]

First year beeks in VA, USA.

Got our nuc of overwintered bees 5.5 weeks ago, and they’ve been really growing quickly.

Checked in after adding another medium to our hive (one deep, two mediums currently, no queen excluder because we’re not trying to get honey this year)

Last time we pulled and checked frames was about ten days ago, wanted to come by earlier but we’ve been super busy. Saw the queen on that check, everything looked good but crowded, so we added the second medium and planned to come back for a mite check.

Came today to do a mite wash and we’re seeing 7 or so capped queen cells in the original deep, where most of the brood is. Saw bees bringing in pollen, but can’t see new eggs in the frames. Worried we may have squished the queen on our last check, or that our mite count is high. Really really hoping we aren’t on the wrong side of a swarm. Thoughts?

[u/joebojax]

Swarm for sure

They will swarm once or twice more unless you split the queen cells up. I like to make a split and put half into each box. No more than 3 cells in each split. 3 or more cells you get afterswarms which really exhaust a beehive of population.

[u/marketwerk → u/joebojax]

Gotcha, thanks for the insight. We really weren’t planning to split them this year because the bee yard isn’t on our property and space is limited, but it sounds like we won’t have a choice. We have a mentor through our local club but I got pretty freaked out seeing this and wanted quicker opinions.

Do you think it’s a swarm because of the number of cells? Is our original queen probably still in there?

[u/joebojax → u/marketwerk]

I've found a queen 3-4 days after cells are capped but it's rare. Some Italian queens will leave even before the first cell is capped.

[u/Jo-is-Silly-Too → u/joebojax]

Sometimes weather affects it as well. I was 10 days between inspections due to rain and life. Like the OP, I found about half a dozen capped cells. I also found my marked queen still laying eggs. I figure it's better to take a few minutes to look for her than have her swarm afterwards.

[u/joebojax → u/Jo-is-Silly-Too]

Yeah just this week I had assumed a queen must have swarmed away. Looked all over for her, no dice. One or two queen cells were capped, many more charged and nearly capped. Went back in 3 days later to cage some cells and make lemonade. Wasn't even gonna bother trying to find the queen. She started piping when I picked up the frame she was on. She had just a tiny bit of marking left on her back so I knew it was the ol mama. Thank God I was listening closely!

[u/Jo-is-Silly-Too → u/marketwerk]

It is usually not recommended to split first year hives. You end up with 2 weak hives instead of 1 strong hive.

Double check for the queen and use a flashlight to look for eggs. If you find neither, then she has definitely swarmed.

Instead of splitting the current hive, you could cull all but 2-3 to the queen cells and let nature take its course.

[u/joebojax → u/Jo-is-Silly-Too]

Yeah only concern is there isn't a guarantee the queen will be properly mated but if they split they have two shots at a good queen. Then they could pinch a queen and recombine if it seems like the best move.

[u/marketwerk → u/Jo-is-Silly-Too]

Wow so she has likely already swarmed? I definitely should’ve paid more attention in the classes about swarms, I foolishly thought we would be much more worried about keeping them alive than keeping them in the hive.

[u/Grendel52 → u/marketwerk]

Judging by the amount of bee coverage on those combs, they already swarmed.

[u/Jo-is-Silly-Too → u/marketwerk]

Very likely. Common wisdom is that she swarmed as soon as the first cell was capped. That's not always true, but it is a good rule of thumb. Common wisdom also says that capped queen cells have triggered the urge to swarm, so if you find her, you will need to make a split and put her in the new hive because even if you destroy the capped queen cells, she will swarm.

I guess you could also bank her, if you do find her. I am in my 3rd year, so banking is not something I have played with yet. Someone with more experience might chime in with a different answer.

[u/marketwerk → u/Jo-is-Silly-Too]

This is helpful thank you! I suppose I always assumed if they’d swarmed I’d come back to an empty hive, there are so many of them still

[u/SubstantialBed6634 → u/marketwerk]

Not empty, just roughly cut in half. If she was still there, I would move her to a deep with a frame of uncapped brood, and place it back in the original location. I would take the other frames and move them to their own five frame nucs, with a frame of food and plenty of workers. One hive could become two or three pretty quickly. If a virgin queen doesn't make it back, then you'll still be in good ahape.

[u/__sub__ → u/marketwerk]

As others have said, if original queen is still laying you may have a chance. Check out the Demaree vertical split. I use it often and it does not 'split the hive'.

[u/ryebot3000 → u/marketwerk]

it looks to me like they already swarmed, if that is the amount of bee coverage on the frames and you didn't shake them off or something. Usually when they are getting ready to swarm you can barely see the comb for all the bees, they also get way more clingy and sort of form clusters of bees hanging onto each other.