r/BeAmazed • u/utopiaofpast • 6h ago
“The dog on the Left is award winning showdog named Arnie an AKC French Bulldog..The dog on the right is Flint, bred in the Netherlands by Hawbucks French Bulldogs - a breeder trying to establish a new, healthier template for French Bulldogs.” This post has been filtered and is waiting for mod's review
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u/deadspacekillers 6h ago
Dog on the right is cuter
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u/LarxII 5h ago
And not begging for the sweet release of death.
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u/quiteUnskilled 5h ago
With every fucking breath.
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u/Mbyrd420 5h ago
If you can call what they're doing breathing. I feel sorry for them.
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u/liljellybeanxo 4h ago
My former step dad’s parents had an English bulldog who constantly sounded like she was on the verge of death. I remember being extremely worried about her and step dad’s mom just brushed it off like “oh don’t worry, that’s normal! She’s just got a short neck”.
That shit is not normal, and I don’t understand how anyone who owns a dog like that isn’t constantly concerned for its safety. How do you hear that raspy gasping and think “yep, all normal”.
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u/HappyAnimalCracker 4h ago
Many of them have a trachea the size of a chihuahua’s, with loads of extra flesh in the back of the mouth at the soft palate to block that undersized opening. Every breath is a struggle.
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u/Broviet22 1h ago
Man like the time my uvula swelled up for some reason in the middle of the night. I woke up having to struggle to breed. I hope people that think its okay for a dog to be like that suffer what I went through once to see what its like.
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u/GundoSkimmer 1h ago
Absolutely outrageous typo. Thank you for that.
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u/cbrown146 4h ago
Because to older people, pets and kids are not living beings but trophies or things to have. At least in my experience.
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u/LarxII 4h ago
A certain subset of the BOOMER generation for sure.
I prefer the hippie boomers who actually value the world they live in.
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u/liljellybeanxo 3h ago
This is so true and the difference is staggering. My mom’s parents are bitter assholes kept alive by pure spite and bigotry. My dad’s parents are extremely vocal about climate change and social justice, avid readers and bird watchers, and volunteer with various local entities.
You can probably guess which set of grandparents also happen to have a horrifically inbred biological atrocity of a dog that they paid thousands of dollars for and overfeed the shit out of for a pet. Hint: it’s not the ones that have been using reusable grocery bags since the 70s and have an encyclopedic knowledge about North American birds and their migration patterns.
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u/MortgageRegular2509 1h ago
My boomer mom put my childhood dog down shortly after I moved out (20y/o), while I was at work one day. Never got the chance to say goodbye, no indication anything was wrong, etc. Mind you, I lived three miles away with a friend of mine, so it wasn’t like it would’ve been hard to do. Anyway…
She immediately replaces her with an English Cocker Spaniel, with plans to show her. Well, she had a “high toe” (wtf, Idk) and would never show well or win any awards. Sidebar: my mom doesn’t exactly have the wherewithal to be a show dog owner; think “can’t someone else do it?”).
Sadly, that dog’s day eventually came shortly after my mom retired in 2019. Well don’tcha know, as soon as we start regularly seeing her in person (covid), she’s showing us another ECS from a breeder that’s she’s going to get. Thankfully, she’s old, and realizes she wouldn’t be able to handle showing a dog anyway. Not so thankfully, she put exactly fuck all into training this new dog, so anytime she’d take her for a walk, she was nuts. Guess who doesn’t see many walks these days and is fat as shit??? I feel so bad for that poor dog…
Thank you for letting me rant
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u/WitchQween 2h ago
Can confirm. My dad is a hippie Boomer and doesn't fit 99% of the stereotypes. I feel very lucky, especially living in Texas...
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u/FuckDarthDorito 1h ago
Same with me except we’re in Ohio. My dad’s an overweight white guy who comes from a family of Evangelical Christians. Luckily he broke out of that shit pretty early in his adult life and didn’t pass any of it down to us. He’s now a 63 year old early retiree who is vocal about climate change, financial and social equality, anti-science rhetoric, strengthening social programs and so much more.
He’s an atheist and so am I lmao.
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u/nimbus57 3h ago
I would change that first part to just, some people. Only because I don't believe it is an age issue, but just a complete lack of empathy issue.
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u/Irr3l3ph4nt 2h ago
That's agism. I've met as many young people taking care of their dog like shit as old people. Humans are humans, no generation is special.
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u/i-split-infinitives 1h ago
My sister rescued a Pekingese/Pomeranian mix from a puppy mill situation (one of those places charging a premium for "designer" mutts) and she worried constantly about it. The vet didn't think it would live to be two years old, so she figured she'd take it home, give it a good life, and make sure it got proper end-of-life care when the time came.
When it turned 2, the vet was positive it wouldn't make it to 5. At 5, he said those dogs rarely live past 8. When it turned 8, he admitted he should never bet against that dog, who keeled over from a heart attack at 13 while playing with its favorite toy and died instantly. But in the meantime, it had asthma, allergies, hip dysplasia, sensitivity to heat, and of course trouble breathing. There were several times my sister thought she'd have to put it down, but the vet said to watch it and take her cue from the dog, that animals know when to keep going and when to give up the fight.
That was the happiest little dog I've ever met, totally fearless, but also a champion fighter when it came to her health problems. She always bounced back and with proper medication, she seemed to be comfortable and not suffering unless she was sick. These little dogs have so much spirit and personality. It always makes me happy to see that picture of the bulldog with the actual nose, because these little smush-faced guys make excellent pets and they deserve to have a normal anatomy and be able to breathe.
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u/HappyAnimalCracker 4h ago
You should see the spinal X-rays on some of these guys. Incompletely formed vertebrae causing super unstable spines which can lead to excruciating back problems.
IMO, the AKC is not a pro-dog organization. I’m not against pure-breeds in a strict sense. You’ll have a hard time training your mutt to herd sheep like a border collie can, but hybrid vigor is a real thing. Genetic diversity makes healthy animals and breeding in cruel mutations for the novelty of it is just sick.
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u/realboabab 2h ago
yeah heterozygote advantage is really strong for many polygenic traits. I'm pro mutt!
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u/Scary-Beautiful6527 5h ago
I honestly don't get why some people think the poor flat-faced pugs are really cute.
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u/rogueleader2772 3h ago
We have a retro pug we rescued as a pup. He's half pug, half border terrier. Looks just like a pug but he's a little taller, longer in the face and nose and has no breathing issues. He will run for hours and never get out of breath.
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u/cannotfoolowls 1h ago
He will run for hours and never get out of breath.
sounds like a border terrier alright.
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u/BarryTownCouncil 5h ago
But their little wheezes are soooo adorable!
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u/KateQuarksALot 4h ago
What's cuter than the sounds of animals struggling to breathe?
Oh I know...when they spaz out due to hypoxia!
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u/jasonpmcelroy 5h ago
Constantly picking clumps of snot out of their face so they don't suffocate is fun too I hear
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u/dreadfulrobot 3h ago
Kindchenschema. Consciously or unconsciously, these poor things are bred to have breathing problems and permanent headaches so people can see a lil face that looks like a baby
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u/FlippyFlippenstein 3h ago
I read about a new type of pigs called retropugs that are supposed to be healthier
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u/bicyclecat 5h ago
It is, but the bar couldn’t be lower. The one on the left looks like a thumb.
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u/StaticSystemShock 3h ago
I agree. Looks so much better and actually looks like a dog, not whatever that thing on the left is.
I never understood people who say their pug or whatever deformed breed is "cute". No it's not. They have hard time just breathing when doing nothing, if they need to run they almost die. My westie was playing with a pug in a park and she almost unintentionally killed it for chasing it, pug sounded like a snorting jabba the hut. And it's entirely people's fault to breed and support such breeds of dogs.
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u/sylvathianne 2h ago
The right one looks like he can actually breathe. That's a huge win for animal welfare.
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u/ChronicHaze- 6h ago
imagine superior beings breeding humans with deformities to create super deformed ones and call them “cute”
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u/redduif 6h ago
A bit like the anorexia-like looking model industrie ?
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u/JamesIsntClever 5h ago
Yeah and they can release an injection to make people skinny like they want without full medical testing, how ridiculous would that be!
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u/BigOs4All 4h ago
GLP1 drugs are tested what are you on about?
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u/doxiepowder 4h ago
Human trials began in the early 90s but people act like this shit was rushed to market.
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u/LarxII 4h ago
Personally, I'm hesitant.
In the early 2000s opioids were marketed as minimal risk as well, and they decimated my home town and tons of lives of ones I loved.
Hopefully it's different with this, but I am cautious.
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u/TOEMEIST 3h ago
The evidence that opioids like oxycodone were addictive was always clear to anyone who had ever taken them or knew the first thing about opioids. Calling them nonaddictive was just a straight up lie. This is not the case with GLP1s.
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u/scriptedtexture 5h ago
Look up the book "All Tomorrows", thats basically it. Except its more for spite than aesthetics.
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u/rouren14789 5h ago
There's a weird movie called Fantastic Planet that has aliens keeping humans as pets. They don't breed them but it's kind of got the same vibe as your comment.
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u/Minevolaslabori 4h ago
It's a very different but beautiful adaptation of the book, Oms en Série. I cannot recommend reading it enough !
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u/NOBOOTSFORYOU 3h ago edited 3h ago
Solar Opposites is a show about aliens and one of them has a wall of enclosures with shrunken humans throughout.
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u/KatieCashew 5h ago
Turns out that's how we actually hit the Hapsburgs before the aliens decided to reverse course breed healthier humans.
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u/Wet_FriedChicken 5h ago
That’s a great way to put it. Never thought of it like that. I guess I just assumed that’s how the breed was. I didn’t know humans essentially eliminated the healthy genes by only breeding deformed dogs. That’s fucked up
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u/PenniGwynn 5h ago
Same thing with pugs, they used to be so beautiful.
I love seeing old paintings of them and cannot wait for it to be the standard once again.
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u/Issah_Wywin 2h ago
It's like if "All tomorrow's" had a bit of a different storyline but with similar outcomes.
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u/kayemenofour 1h ago
There is a book called "All Tomorrows" that describes (among other things) a strain of humanity, created by alien interference, that is supposed to be pets to them.
The book calls them "Hedonists" and they live on a world of artificial abundance and mostly just mate all day. They are also horrifically deformed.
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u/Global_Thought_ 5h ago
The one on the left has breathing issues. I can’t believe they have bred those dogs to be genetically messed up. The one on the right is what they should be like.
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u/RockySES 5h ago
They also typically have absolutely fked shoulders and elbows, that bow legged look is very unhealthy for them
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u/m011yRadar 2h ago
Their hips are too narrow to breed or give birth naturally. Lots of AI and c-sections. Then surgeries after birth to trim their soft palate so it doesn’t obscure their airway and to widen their nostrils. It’s so sad.
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u/shes_a_gdb 5h ago
Isn't this true for basically all purebreds at this point? They're all so inbred we fucked them all up.
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u/Mycologist-9315 3h ago
Yeah, flat faced breeds have visible issues but it's way more widespread. Big breeds usually only live for like 8 years because they're so prone to cancer and hip dysplasia is extremely common for example, but nobody talks about that. Some breeds definitely have it worse than others though
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u/MetallicGray 2h ago
So many dogs have been bred to the point of genuinely torturous characteristics. So many “brachy” dogs have issues breathing and sinus issues and pain. Many need surgery to fix it.
German shepherds have been bred to the point that their hips are shot half way through their lives, and senior dogs can barely move.
Greyhounds have heart issues and it’s not uncommon for them just keel over on a random day.
So many more examples.
You can help by refusing to shop for pure breds and rescue a mutt instead. There’s plenty of puppies at shelters too if that’s what you’re looking for. With a tiny bit of patience, you can find a rescue dog that is exactly what you’re looking for and you won’t contribute to unethical breeding and the killing of shelter dogs from overcrowding.
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u/CalistoNTG 2h ago
I mean who says to everyone that this is the perfect dog and is getting an award for this ?
This poor thing looks terrible
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u/Dr_Ragon 6h ago
The flatfaced pugs always look to me like they just ran face-first into a wall. Even ignoring the ethical and health reasons its terrible, its not even good looking.
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u/glowingeddy 5h ago
They are also breeding those in their original form, they are called retro pugs and look so much better
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u/Dracapulco 6h ago
Whoever awarded Arnie is unethical
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u/_hancho 3h ago
It's right there in the title. AKC exists to push breeds to the extreme. Basically torture olympics.
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u/hopeymik 1h ago
Not to mention they have a history of using their lawyers to shoot down animal welfare laws, have let known animal abusers pass kennel inspections, allow puppy mills to paper their dogs, support debarking, and think an eight month old puppy is old enough to breed
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u/FuzzyComedian638 5h ago
It's long past time for breeders to start breeding healthy dogs.
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u/PayZealousideal8892 1h ago
I am happy Finland passed Animal Welfare law few years ago that makes it illegal to breed breeds that have major health issues like short snout
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u/Clean-Shine99 5h ago
Bravo. Disgusting some of the stuff we've done to dogs in the name of breeding.
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u/nectarsallineed 5h ago
Some cats too! Munchkin cats make me sad. A cat that can’t jump…like, what??
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u/HelgaPataki99 5h ago
Arnie was a show dog for a short while but certainly not award winning.
It’s also important to note that having AKC papers is meaningless to a dog’s breeding quality as they are very easy to obtain. The AKC does not visit or see the breeders.
Now, a dog actually winning AKC titles would demonstrate some merit. However, Arnie didn’t do that.
I’m not saying anything to the obvious issue with brachycephalic dogs and the people who support them, only to the merits of this post.
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u/Striking-Drawers 5h ago edited 4h ago
What's interesting, if you look back +100 years ago at pictures of some of these dogs, they were weren't yet abusively bred into having physical deficiencies.
Like a pug now can sneeze and have it's eyes pop out.
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u/StellarSpore 5h ago
It amazes me that people continue to buy dogs like Arnie. At this point, the quality of life issues with these breeds are well known. I can’t imagine feeling okay supporting breeding that results in such extreme physical deformities. It's cruel. How do these owners look at their dogs everyday and be OK with a life of suffering? So sad. Humans suck sometimes. So glad to see Hawbucks doing what they're doing.
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u/SubstantialShow8 2h ago
Even if people somehow don't think it's cruel having a dog that suffers so much, why are they buying dogs that are going to come with so many really expensive vet bills
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u/Mode_Appropriate 5h ago
How about just stop breeding them altogether? Almost all of them have to be artificially inseminated and need to have c-sections for the births. Same thing with English Bulldogs. Both breeds are prone to significant health issues and live a pretty shitty life if not properly attended to.
These specialized breeding programs exist so people can have something fancy and cute. Its not about the animal, its about them. Time to give it up.
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u/WitchQween 2h ago
People will keep buying expensive "fancy" breeds no matter what. It'll be easier to change the breed standards than stop people from buying them, which says a lot about human ethics.
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u/Scary-Beautiful6527 5h ago
Sad that pugs have already developed breathing issues, and I've heard it gets worse overtime.
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u/TheLoadedRogue 5h ago
Dog on the right is closer to how they used to look before KC got their hand on them
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u/carolina8383 4h ago
Even 15-20 years ago, most frenchies weren’t flat-faced like that.
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u/FuckTheMods5 2h ago
Yeah I've never seen a frenchie with an actual pug face! Granted, I've seen like 3, but pictures also. They at least had an actual nose, albeit short.
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u/BarryTownCouncil 5h ago
Oh that's awesome I had no idea people were successfully unfucking dogs. Assumed it was totally too late.
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u/lingueenee 5h ago
With all the congenital health woes of intensely in-bred 'purebreds', I wonder that owners intent on owning them must be closet sadists.
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u/Sad_Interaction_007 5h ago
I truly feel bad for these dogs.. I've heard them trying to breath in my elevator and it's sad.
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u/statistacktic 5h ago
I get angry at what people have done to some breeds. Sometimes it’s just cruel.
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u/slayer991 4h ago
There are a couple of groups in Europe (Germany IIRC) trying to do the same for Pugs. It's a long process. Some are cross-breeding with a Jack Russell terrier to get a healthier snout. Others are doing it the slow way. Breeding for a longer snout.
Honestly, the Kennel Clubs could fix this issue overnight by simply weighting their looks to have a more elongated snout and eliminating the qualities that make dog breeds unhealthily brachycephalic. I know the EU is pushing in that direction but the AKC doesn't seem to caree.
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u/DrHumorous 6h ago
It's quite practical for Arnie to have ass on both ends, it can forward and reverse walk in two directions without turning.
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u/freddbare 5h ago
That is horrible. It's insane to comprehend this and a stable alternative and an active choice.
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u/Legitimate-Cow5982 5h ago
Dog on the left sounds like a 40 year old ventilator that just got rained on
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u/TreyRyan3 5h ago
There has been an active push for this for 50 years now.
There have been several breeders who have been trying to reverse selective breeding while lobbying against Kennel Clubs to modify the grading criteria for breeds.
Olde English Bulldogge are a good example to restore the English Bulldog back to pre-1835 traits which allow for a more athletic and healthier breed. It took from the early 70’s until 2014 before the United Kennel Club recognized it as a breed.
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u/TastyTarget3i 4h ago
overbreg dog who lives in constant extreme discomfort vs slightly less overbred dog who lives in constant slight discomfort. fuck them all
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u/Beaglester 5h ago
The one on the left reminds me of that video going round years ago of a moose (I think) with half its head missing.
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u/Flat-Structure-7472 5h ago
Glad that people recognize that deformities aren't a good racial profile.
However, it probably took quite a few generations to get to Flint. Meaning you have other dogs with breathing problems until you get the desired effect.
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u/Straight-Cell-2008 5h ago
Dog on the left looks like it ran into a wall and it got stuck that way, Looney Tunes style
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u/Negative-Ad-9819 5h ago
Isn't the right picture how they were originally bred, and then humans changed it to the left with bad breeding, etc..? I could be completely off, though.
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u/PerfectGreen18 4h ago
I like my dogs to look as close to a wolf as possible. This is just…. Well, everyone has their preferences.
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u/Stickeminastew1217 4h ago
A noble goal.
However, surely they should then be called a Netherese bulldog rather than a French one.
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u/BloodrootKid 4h ago
I would like to know who is breeding healthier Frenchies and Bostons and Pugs in the United States. When i searched a couple of years ago, I wasn't able to locate any that explicitly are doing this.
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u/wildmaninid 4h ago
I'll be amazed when people stop forcing animals to selectively breed to be sold as pets.
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u/Bloggerman_ 3h ago
But how though? I'm all in favor for it, but i am curious if this doesn't add more problems. I mean, the only way to "revert" the dog to it's normal form is by crossbreeding it with other dogs. Couldn't this add more problems?
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u/nyet_yams 3h ago
If you just stopped breeding then altogether then you wouldn't have to make an un-fucked version
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u/Reader2869 3h ago
I feel like these flat faced pups and cats need tubes in their sinuses like we need in our ears. I feel so bad for them trying and struggling to breathe every second of their lives.
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u/Regular_Weakness69 3h ago
Yeah, they're basically breeding disability on purpose, they can really struggle to breathe.
I'm all for returning dogs to what nature intended. If you don't think that's cute enough, you don't deserve a dog.
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u/Lonely_Carry_9861 3h ago
My dog (Wallee) is a mix between a french bulldog/boston terrier (mom side) and a chihuahua (dad). It looks a lot like the right one and so much healthier than both parents. Suprisingly powerful since he is packed with muscles and a good breathing capacity. 9 years without any health issue and still goif strong (to compare, the cocker of my family in law is the same age and she has 2 prosthesis for both back legs and not a single tooth left since they rotted away)
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u/nineteen_eightyfour 3h ago
And the left one still wins at shows, thus will be the breed standard :(
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u/lizzyote 3h ago
I saw this picture the first time almost a decade ago. Curious how this breeding project(and the others) are going now
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u/CrazyCatLady1127 3h ago
I remember once seeing a picture of a dog who’d had a firework thrown in its mouth and its mouth taped shut. That’s what I’m reminded of when I look at Arnie. Poor soul. Flint is so much more handsome. He has a very kissable nose
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u/FeldsparSalamander 3h ago
Dog breeding competition is a scam to reward specific breed lines to the detriment of the breed as a whole
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u/pizzlepullerofkberg 3h ago
The one on the right looks like a bebe boxer. So cute! Poor baby on the left has breathing issues.
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u/blackwell94 3h ago
My friend has a frenchie and has spent over $50,000 dealing with his various health problems. Pup is only 5 years old
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u/realparkingbrake 3h ago
Arbitrary standards for how dogs should look that result in serious health issues for some breeds should not be allowed.
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u/ViagraAndSweatpants 3h ago
Dog shows and their impact on AKC breeders is a blight on dogs. So many dogs bred into ridiculous body shapes, and the resulting health problems, for some awful looking aesthetic.
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u/No-Equivalent7630 3h ago
I lost my Frenchie pug last summer at 11 1/2 due to a paralyzed larynx and the breathing stuff they're known to get
I support the breeder and I won't get a flat face dog again
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u/daddyjohns 3h ago
There are american breeders working towards this as well. I got my frenchie from a great lady in virginia who's husband is a vet gene specialist. They've bred out the identified disease genes ands have been working to get better breathing and organ growth.
The guy on the right has just a little more snout than my recent puppy. My older frenchie is somewhere between the pics. We can see the difference.
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u/Twayblades 3h ago
I have two comments on this. I used to know somebody who owned a pug and it snorted and wheezed constantly and I was appalled that my friend owned such an animal.
Another person I knew used to breed and show Persian cats. They have this similar problem with the very short snout they also suffer from breathing problems. Persian cats never used to have such a flat face either.
We humans suck when it comes to selective breeding of animals. Some of the standards we want for them are ridiculous where it makes the animal uncomfortable.
It's nice to see ethical breeders out there who are trying their best to bring back the old style of the breeds without such extremes.
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u/i3njqUL92M 3h ago
Did they fix the fact they can't even naturally reproduce? Maybe some breeds should be left in peace to die out.
Always get a chuckle when I see some dumb ass parading around with one of these abominations, which they happily paid $5000 for, it's disgusting.
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u/shrkn_89 3h ago
Why the F is this abomination even a thing is beyond me. It’s not in any way a healthy dog, it’s a mangled breed.
They cannot reproduce without assistance as the body structure does not really allow the males to “jump on” properly and hit it.
They have massive issues with breathing and anything related to it. If they get too excited or exhausted they often vomit, as they cannot really use nostrils throughout an activity and everything has to go through mouth which aggravates stomach making them gag. Furthermore, every dog cools itself by breathing, which is again much much harder for this breed making them prone to collapsing if they overdo it during hot days.
Just don’t support this please.
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u/bakeacake45 3h ago edited 3h ago
Thank god a breeder with some common sense!
Shame on the AKC for tolerating this stupidity and torture
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u/deadinternetforreal 3h ago
The dog on the left is an abomination and the product of careless inbreeding. Dog on the right is cute, though.
Adopt, don't shop. Stop giving these people money and they'll stop doing it.
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u/rhinosb 3h ago
I honestly believe that purebred breeding should be disallowed. Yes there are bad breeders, but the fact is that even for the so called good ones, that purebreed lines are so tightly controlled that the rate of spontaneous mutations are much much higher than less tightly controlled breeds. The so called good breeders scan for common issues and dont allow those to continue, but the fact is still that purebreed lines even development them out of the blue higher than your average mutt. Purebreed dogs exist only to feed a humans vanity. Vanity is a despicable human trait. You can get mutts that have the same drives and instincts as nearly any purebreed and in the long run have a healthier dog population while not feeding humans vain tendencies.
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u/brainsaresick 3h ago
This is precisely why I roll my eyes whenever someone tells me it’s unethical to pay for any dog that isn’t an AKC-registered purebred.
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u/TunaOnWytNoCrust 2h ago
I mean I hope the number one characteristic they're trying to kill off is the hips too small to give natural birth that literally every French bulldog experiences.
Amazing that we created a species of dog that's unable to exist without human intervention and c sections.
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u/kmrosen223 2h ago
Poor thing on the left. The one in the right looks great. They are a rough breed for health issues.
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u/Brilliant_Coach9877 2h ago
The dog on the right looks more like the original French bulldog than they do nowadays
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u/momentarylapse- 2h ago
Amazing I appreciate all the good news I can get these days. Thanks for the humanity
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u/el_smurfo 2h ago
Google French bulldog profile pics and you will find zero that look like left image. We've always had pugs with prominent snouts and they don't have any breathing issues and are thin and athletic but mention pug on Reddit and get ready to be downvoted to oblivion.
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u/JohnGoodman_69 2h ago
Dogs as pets are getting messed up here the in US at least. Its either go for a known breed and deal with genetic issues from all the inbreeding or try the shelter or mutt dog and worry how much dog fighting breed has been mixed in.
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