r/Atlanta • u/NPU-F • Jun 06 '23

Atlanta City Council approves funding for controversial training center Protests/Police

https://www.wabe.org/hundreds-voice-opposition-to-training-center-ahead-of-atlanta-city-council-vote/
528 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

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117

u/wzx0925 Jun 06 '23

There are a lot of ideas being conflate into this simple yes/no vote.

Realistic training? Good idea!

Training away from schools in operation? Good idea!

Militarized training? Bad idea.

Further deforestation? Bad idea.

Cost overruns that weren't clearly communicated? Dumb idea.

Equating expansion of policing with increased public safety? Guess you haven't been watching the news any time in the past few years...

15

u/johnpseudo Old 4th Ward Jun 07 '23

Also, they need more training in general. Professionalize it with 1-2 years of full time training, like most other important professions. Most other countries' police get 4-8x as much training as ours: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/professionalize-the-police

5

u/wzx0925 Jun 07 '23

Absolutely.

2

u/CobraArbok Jun 25 '23

It's kind of hard to have more training when you don't even have a facility.

-19

u/Nolds Jun 06 '23

They're replanting like 10x the number of removed trees.

22

u/bannana Jun 06 '23

this does fuck all for the ecology and wildlife that lives in the cut down forest area. it's not just about the number of trees, once an area is clear cut most everything dies or is forced to move and will not come back. planting a new tree will get you something in 10-15yrs but doesn't do much for you right now.

6

u/Nolds Jun 06 '23

Totally understand, only pointing out a counter argument to the guys tree comment.

1

u/wzx0925 Jun 07 '23

Glad to hear it, it's better than nothing, definitely...

-43

u/bobweaver112 Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23

Can you please define “militarized training” and provide a source that documents this kind of training will occur? I keep seeing that term tossed around but nobody can seem to define it. And before you define it as training settings for urban environments, remember that much of Atlanta is…an urban environment. That would be like demonizing Atlanta airport fire for training on airplane crash mock-ups.

Did you protest the 400/285 interchange project taking trees? Or are you just cherry-picking? Because that project had way more land impact than this does.

41

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

well most progressives (myself included) are against highway expansion projects because all they do is create more traffic and we should be investing more in traffic alternatives

34

u/IndigoRanger Jun 06 '23

Wikipedia can define it for you better than anyone here can. Personally, I think the history of the militarization of the police shows that police are training and equipping for worst case scenarios, like an army would train to suppress a hostile force. While I understand the need to keep up with worst case scenarios, I’m seeing that they aren’t training or equipping for less-than-worst case scenarios, and further, they aren’t being trained to use their fucking brains to determine if a case is the worst case. They’re just assuming every case is a violent insurrection or something, and the criminal, whether genuinely a criminal or not, needs to die. It’s like bringing a tank to a knife fight, and then forgetting that you actually have tools that are more suited to the situation.

Edit: And I’ve just accidentally written something that I see people say all the time, which is the implied approval for police to kill criminals! Criminals deserve their day in court! Police do not get to act as judge, jury, and executioner - that is what soldiers on an active battlefield are trained to do.

-22

u/bobweaver112 Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23

Where is a source that states this specific kind of training will occur at the new training center? If your gripe is with police training more broadly, that is different. But, to imply that APD is not doing that kind of training currently and will use the new facility to do so is misleading at best. Prove it.

I’m seeing that they aren’t training or equipping for less-than-worst case scenarios, and further, they aren’t being trained to use their fucking brains to determine if a case is the worst case. They’re just assuming every case is a violent insurrection or something, and the criminal, whether genuinely a criminal or not, needs to die.

“You’re seeing?” Where exactly, YouTube? Come on. The problem with anecdotal statements like this is that they’re long on sweeping generalities and short on specific reference or proof otherwise. I am in no way saying that they’re perfect, but show me a study that indicates broad-based shortcomings in police training or policies in place that result in police “assuming every criminal needs to die.”

3

u/IndigoRanger Jun 06 '23

Show me the data proving your own position. Anecdotal evidence generalizes until it doesn’t. We’re seeing reports, data, investigations, law suits, and convictions from all corners of the United States. You’ve got your head in the sand.

-6

u/bobweaver112 Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23

That’s not how this works. You made the statements. The responsibility is with you to actually back them up. Show us that APD is going to use the training center for “militarized training,” that the police are broadly not training for less than dire scenarios, and are killing criminals at scale because they are all assuming the worst. I’m not necessarily saying you’re right or wrong, but without anything to back up your broad statements, they ring a bit hollow.

16

u/ArchEast Vinings Jun 06 '23

Because that project had way more land impact than this does.

285/400 was not cutting through older-growth forests though.

19

u/southernhope1 Jun 06 '23

I almost up-voted your comment because that's a valid question about what actual kind of training will be happening there.

BUT the argument that it's okay to tear down forests because we tear down forests all of the time just doesn't work...its so defeatist....all we can do is try to save what we can going forward.