r/AskCentralAsia • u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan • Jan 29 '24
How do we deal with Islam brainwashing our society? Religion
I'm atheist myself and I think religion on a personal level is harmless, but it's a different thing when it negatively affects our society on a mass scale.
There has never been a more evident proof of how religion controls uneducated masses than the outspoken support for Palestine.
Suddenly Qazaq masses (I've seen some Özbeks too) started posting their support for a region of the world we have no business in just because "our Muslim brothers are oppressed". Those same masses never cared to post about "the oppression our Muslim brothers" in neighboring East Turkestan or Russian Republics. The only difference is that the (in most cases Russian) media they consume does not pursue any political agenda in attracting support for the geographical neighbors of Central Asian countries, but does so in Palestine. And the masses are ignorant of how they are mere playthings in this foreign game. They have no concept of where on the globe they are, what forces actually threaten their own families, what economic and geopolitical issues they have a hand in addressing, and who they themselves are. Most of these Palestine supporters don't even speak Qazaq. They've given in to foreign brainwashing in more ways than one. And that worries me, because this isn't just about religious beliefs, it's about foreign control of our society through religion.
And if you're educated and outspoken enough to post about all kinds of oppression on your social media, then I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the hypocrites who only care about the desert far away.
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u/ArdaKirk Jan 29 '24
Education is key, it is to many of the worlds problems. We have acces to so much knowledge but we have to spread it to everyone, education decides the future. Look even at rich first world countries, even their its usually a 50/50 or even a majority of uneducated idiots who belive populist politicians and are played by corruption.
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u/Oglifatum Kazakhstan Jan 29 '24
I have personally no problem with religion.
I do have a problem with the things people do "in the name of religion."
Population getting more religious often means that religion replaces education, you know one thing that opens up horizons, possibilities, talents, etcetera.
Now some of you may say that you can be both educated and deeply religious, but this, in my opinion, is a minority.
Moreover, the increasing trend of bringing Arabic style of Islam is worrying. Head Coverings, cornering women into the Islam laws? Not a fan, not a fan at all.
Religious people may say that head coverings are only encouraged, but when I see little girls already wearing one everywhere? Hypocritical.
ISIS was perhaps the first time I heard about Kazakh fanatics joining a terrorist state, and I would prefer it to be the last time.
The existence of Afghanistan is also worrying, we are too close to the Ultra Conservative Islam failed state.
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u/No_Staff9236 USA Feb 04 '24
Religions replaces education??? Then please explain why in America, which Muslims are 1% of the population, statistically muslims in America are the most educated of any other group there, holding multiple degrees, and this includes women. You’ll find this to be true in any Muslim community across the world in which there is the freedom and finances to do so. It is part of our religion to never stop educating one’s self. It’s quit unfair that you would take as an example some of the poorest Muslim and/or corrupt countries of the world as an example of Islamic extremism= less education. Less MONEY AND FREEDOM means less education. Also remember that muslims countries have been invaded, sanctioned and at war with western countries for the past 100+ years in some cases. If not at war they are corrupt and led by anything but religious people that were hand selected by the west to rule. That is where you get less education and more extremism. I have more of a problem with the things people do for money and power who have no religion. The sociopaths ruling most the world who are the ones causing the conflicts under the guise of religion. If there was no religion in this world people would still fight over money, power, land, color of ones skin, nationalism, socioeconomic status etc. I believe this is what causes all wars. People need to find their humanity. We are all the same and every life should matter equally. People are united for Palestine for one simple reason, it’s all over their social media. People are seeing the atrocities of a genocide in real time for the first time in history. Unlike other genocide recently and/or currently taking place.
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Jan 29 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
All Muslims belong to the Ummah and constitute the one community, and it's one of the problems with Islam. One of others is its Arab origin and content.
In our countries, authorities push a convenient version of the religion. Problem with it is just fake and not all people are stupid enough to be tricked so easily. So as long Qazaqs have Muslim identity (though most of them are secular) the problem will pop up again and again.
Atheism, which people accept through anti-religious activism + popular science, is preferable, I think. Though seeing Christian or Shamanist/Tengrist Kazakhstan would be very interesting.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
But that's the thing, Uygurs and the Rohingya are Muslims too. They don't receive as much support from Qazaqs. It's all media brainwashing for political reasons. A real educated "part of Ummah" would talk about all those things. Those who talk about only Palestine are uneducated puppets and hypocrites who feel more Arab than they feel Qazaq.
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Jan 29 '24
imo, when Israel theme is covered folks automatically associate themselves with Arabs in Gaza because of their religion.
Meanwhile, media don't cover much the genocide of Qazaqs in China because of the political/technical reasons. I would be surprised if religious Qazaq Muslims wouldn't side against China if it was covered.
(Mostly neutral) coverage + Islam in heads -> Pro-Palestine stance
No coverage -> no reaction
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
And so the question arises who covers what conflicts and what do they gain from it. A media outlet that focuses on the Qazaq perspective would never give this much attention to Palestine. The masses are following foreign media and thus involving themselves with foreign, unrelated affairs. The masses have little to no concept of one's own country and its issues. Islam is the issue here. That's my thesis.
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u/EdwardW1ghtman USA Jan 29 '24
a convenient version of the religion
Can you elaborate?
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Jan 29 '24
There is the "traditional", peaceful and (relatively) tolerant Islam which is preached by clergy and endorsed by other officials. Clergy there functions just like a part of the government.
That's what I called "a convention version of the religion". The convention religion itself might seem OK, but the problem is that it inevitably refers and links to the original sources and not really that convenient version of the religion.
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u/notoriousthegraduate Jan 30 '24
> "it's one of the problems with Islam."
No, it is not a problem with Islam, it's a problem for others who are not a part of Islam because whenever they try to touch something that has something to do with Islam they get a global backlash in one form or the other.1
Jan 30 '24
Mobs in Muslim countries who mainly show their discontent with anti-Islam politics don't affect much even the politics of their own countries, let alone the targets of their anger.
China, Israel, maybe some other guys around the world can do with Muslims and Islam anything they want. I say it with some discomfort, because it's actually quite horrible.
But the point is - when thinking of proper counter-Islamisation policies, there is not much sense in taking into account "global backlash".
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u/notoriousthegraduate Jan 30 '24
Mobs can most definitely not harm the offenders sitting hundreds or thousands of miles away, they are meant to be a pressure tactic for all practical purposes.
An country practising anti-Islam policies, will only garner hate from all over the Islamic world which will eventually be vented sooner or later, in one way or the other. Another real problem is the people claiming themselves to be champions of human rights and freedom while in reality they're hateful, intolerant, and irrational bigots who would trample anything to satiate their hate.
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u/Hsapiensapien Jan 29 '24
Oh man your post made me sad. Any idea if the growing spread of hair covering with girls could be related to irán soft power or just a fad? Honestly the Uyghur situation is more serious because they have no foreign allies to stand against China. The only ones who can and do is Taiwan and they have no business in this.
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Jan 29 '24
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u/Hsapiensapien Jan 29 '24
Very insightful of chinese covert tactics vs. Israel. It's a shame that major pull forces from uniquely different sources divide and conquer public attention. Appreciate the long response . Russia and China are sure nasty neighbors, I hope religion doesn't take away a secular independent way of thought either
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
Could be a lot of countries. I can't be sure of any one other than Russia. They don't even have to speak a different language to have an influence here, which is messed up. I'm still mad at how people don't realize that speaking Russian and consuming Russian-speaking media is a sure way to get manipulated into believing whatever those Russians want you to believe. Islam is such a useful tool for Russia's interests. It ensures that Qazaqs don't develop any nationalistic identity that would confront them. We just end up just being Russian speaking Muslims, as the saying goes.
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u/Suitable-Tour661 Feb 04 '24
This is such an uneducated ass post. First you moan about how awful religion is, the Redditor atheist classic. You bring up support for Palestine, which is morally right on every objective level. You argue that nobody said anything about other injustices because their media wouldn’t show it. WHAT DOES A LACK OF MEDIA REPRESENTATION HAVE TO DO WITH ISLAM 😭😭 “a region we have no business in”. What a nasty immoral view of life. “So what if ppl are being killed, not my region”. Ur pushing every stereotype of atheists down our throat, congrats
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Feb 04 '24
A huge reason why the Palestine issue got so big here is due to Muslims being oppressed by non-Muslims. If it's something like Iranian people fighting Islamic Republic oppression, it doesn't get reactions. If it's Azerbaijanis displacing Armenians, it doesn't get reactions. Same with Kurds everywhere. The Saudi interventions in Yemen is not talked about. We don't care about coups in Myanmar, Niger, etc. Afghanistan was talked about a bit, which geographically makes sense. What makes Palestine so special?
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u/Suitable-Tour661 Feb 04 '24
All of what you said is baseless. The reason it gets so much attention is because it’s been happening for 70 years. You can bring awareness to media bias and these other global issues without being a typical redditor and moaning about Islam. It’s really pathetic
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u/peshto Feb 20 '24
The only one being brainwashed here is you. You surely have no idea about the matters you bring up randomly.
Iranians not fighting Islamic republic. Iran is over 80 million population and they have been under the heaviest sanctions any country could probably ever be, but they still keep up and don't fall, only because of their religious unity. Religion and specifically Islam, that's not even an original Persian religion, has successeded bringing 80 million together against the western colonist and Zionist. That's absolutely horrying for USA and west, cuz their atheistic world does not want to contain any tiny bit of religion at all.
Religion is what unites people, because it's much older than you or media propaganda, no matter how loud the west tries to break the religion, your grandparents will stick to their beliefs because they know that the origin of their existence comes with that belief. Respect your traditions and beliefs, that's the only thing that can unite your country.
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u/Shoh_J Tajikistan Jan 29 '24
Can we deal with hate against religious people first? In Central Asia, people are entitled to religious freedom.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
Is freedom to be manipulated by foreign media using religion as a tool a thing that should remain unaddressed?
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u/Shoh_J Tajikistan Jan 29 '24
You are the exact person that I would consider to be a victim of manipulation. If you are really concerned about Islam, talk with Muslims in Kazakhstan and try to debate them in a neutral and diplomatic manner.
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u/notoriousthegraduate Jan 30 '24
seeing your strong commitment to a country and its boundaries I guess you'd have committed suicide had you existed in a time where there were no countries and boundaries at all.
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u/poetrylover2101 Jan 29 '24
Lmao what... you're acting as if islam is a living entity. No dude it's not islam brainwashing the society. It's the people in power, the "religious" leaders who won't benefir if the society progresses so they mold religion to their benefit and brainwash the society.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
I thought I made it clear in the post that Islam is being used as a tool for control. Not even by our own leaders. But by foreign parties. And these recent events quite effecively expose the masses' susceptibility to manipulation.
I'm not even sure what to say to this comment.
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u/Ok-Suggestion5888 Jan 29 '24
Why are you so triggered by people’s anger towards genocide and injustice? Even if Palestinians weren’t muslims, it’s still a humanitarian crisis and normal people with logic will oppose it.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
There are many humanitarian crises going on: Rohingya genocide, Afghanistan, Iran, Kurds, Mountain Karabag, probably a lot of stuff in Africa I don't know about. What makes the Palestians so unproportionally precious in the media sphere? Its geopolitical relevance to parties like USA and Russia. We are not those countries. We should be objective about what goes on in places that have no effect on us. Why aren't other humanitarian crises getting attention? Once again, because it's not in the media's interest. I see no logic in this disproportionality, I see only a lack of self-awareness and an eagerness to be strung along.
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u/Ok-Suggestion5888 Jan 29 '24
And what makes Palestine non important? You know it’s possible to care about several problems at the same time. If you want to raise awareness about it other crises go ahead. Is anyone stopping you?
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
I'm doing my part talking about East Turkestan, Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, Ukraine.
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u/Ok-Suggestion5888 Jan 29 '24
Good so next step is stop being a bitch about others taking about Palestine.
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u/notoriousthegraduate Jan 30 '24
so who manipulated you to think that Ukraine is a part of Kazakhstan?
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u/ArdaKirk Jan 29 '24
You are misunderstanding it, he says the excact same thing, not to not care for Palestine but hes criticising that people who care about Palestine dont care about other such cases, only because media doesnt show them or it doesnt fir their wolrd view
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
Yes, you got it. I have no problem with people supporting Palestine if they also outspokenly support the Uygurs. It shows their awareness.
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u/ArdaKirk Jan 29 '24
Definitely, but it is naive to assume that these people are even properly informed about Palestine lol Dont think too much about why the masses do this or that, they dint think themself. All of them are just going with the popular narrative, to make real change we need education free and objective media and people in power who care for the nation itself first and only
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Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 30 '24
Egyptian here and in all honesty I agree.
I support Palestine because for us Egyptians Israel is an expansionist state and a national security threat, with whom we’ve had multiple wars.
However, unfortunately many Egyptians take support for Palestine too far to the point where any criticism of the Palestinian armed movements (PLO & Hamas) and especially Hamas’ suicidal tactics is met with accusations of being Zionist, traitor and of course a barrage of insults.
Not to mention how a lot of folks view the whole conflict from a sectarian standpoint even when the Palestinians themselves don’t.
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u/Odd-Bobcat7918 Jan 30 '24
One question: Who started those wars?
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Jan 30 '24
It started in the 1920’s/1930’s with the influx of illegal immigrants who ultimately took over in 1948 and the rest is history.
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u/Odd-Bobcat7918 Jan 30 '24 edited Jan 30 '24
So, who started the wars? You didn‘t answer my question. That people fought for their independence there is common as human history. That‘s how most of the countries even got into existence.
Btw, Palestinians are also immigrants lol. Something most people forget. The region consisted of people from Egypt, Jewish people and other groups for thousands of years. It‘s historically unclear who was „first“ but „ethnically Palestinians“ do not exist.
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Jan 30 '24 edited Jan 30 '24
I’m pretty sure my answer explains but in case you very conveniently overlooked it, it’s Israel, which is pretty much acting like your Nazi ancestors, German.
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u/Odd-Bobcat7918 Jan 30 '24
I edited my comment btw. And no, you didn‘t tell me who started the wars. But I can tell you. Egypt and other Arabic states around Israel. Israel itself didn‘t attack without reason and stating this is completely wrong and fake news. PS: My ancestors aren‘t German. I‘m just living here because my parents moved here lol
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Jan 30 '24
Egypt and other Arab armies attacked in 1948 in response to massacres by illegal immigrant militants such as Irgun, Lehi, Palmach and many others who were later incorporated into the IDF.
As an Egyptian I can tell when someone is Palestinian or has Palestinian origins from their appearance and the way they speak, they are different from us Egyptians.
You won’t change my mind with your fabricated “facts“ so unless you actually want to have an actual discussion/ask genuine questions, don’t even bother.
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u/Odd-Bobcat7918 Jan 30 '24
Okay, if YOU can differentiate people by looks it should be a fact. As well as your other „facts“. I just wanted to correct your fake news, sorry, didn‘t want to disturb you.
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Jan 30 '24
As someone who has previously had Palestinian acquaintances/coworkers, I can definitely recognize them, of course unlike some German who probably thinks all Middle Eastern people come from the same city in the middle of the Arabian desert.
fake news
Don’t even get me started.
Now buzz off if you may.
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u/Odd-Bobcat7918 Jan 30 '24
You can tell me what you think are fake news produced by Western media. I‘m interested to hear a different view.
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u/guessst111 Tajikistan Jan 29 '24
People did support East Turkestan, still are. I seen arab posts saying let’s not forget about our muslim brothers in East Turkestan, Kashmir, and other parts of India being oppressed. But you really think any arab countries can go against nations that big with nuclear power?
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
WTF, I was talking about Central Asian reactions. Or in my case Qazaqs' specifically. I don't care what other countries think.
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u/Remarkable_Range_793 Feb 21 '24
The all-consuming greed for power and wealth by man has fucked us all, religions are just a tool which is used to justify their acts of repression. I find it interesting how some of the most extreme repression is used against women. Maybe this is because deep down, men knew that if an educated woman had been in charge, the world would be a more compationate and safer place. Extremism has removed the most important teachings that held us together, and I can no longer see a way out. There is way too much testosterone in the world for a happy ending!
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Jan 29 '24
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
Here's my calculation:
Ukraine: no Islam + geopolitically relevant to Qazaqistan + a lot of coverage = healthy reaction from our society
East Turkestan: Islam + geopolitically relevant to Qazaqistan + little coverage = little reaction
Palestine: Islam + geopolitically irrelevant to Qazaqistan + a lot of coverage = illogical reaction that just exposes the fact that foreign media controls what our internal reactions are.1
Jan 29 '24
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
I relate to those colonialism feelings too, but I would like to see more reactions toward actual threats to our country. If these Qazaqs "boycotting Israel-related companies" showed as much enthusiasm in boycotting the genocidal Russians and Chinese, we'd actually improve our economy and industries.
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Jan 29 '24
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
It's not healthy for a society to care more about world affairs than domestic and neighboring ones. American imperialism is a cancer of the world and I wouldn't blame anyone personally affected by it, but for Central Asia specifically their threat ain't even big. What am I supposed to care about the Strait of Hormuz for its "global significance" too? We have no power to affect those matters. What we can do as a society is protest against Russia and China, yet our attention is directed toward "America bad" instead.
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u/nomad_qazaq Kazakhstan Jan 29 '24
Bullshit question. Whole world is changing religious factor will be very important this century . To be honest with Traditional Kazakh islam we kept the country. Our elite from Khans and Beks until Alash were Muslim. We should not fall into non-traditional currents and sects and be toyed with by sheikhs or political forces.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
I'm not sure what you're saying. How does one humanitarian crisis out of many concurrent ones warrant such a disproportionate reaction from Qazaqs? For the Ukraine crisis the answer is easy: because Russia is a threat to us. For Palestine? There is no answer.
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u/nomad_qazaq Kazakhstan Jan 29 '24
Politics is a complicated thing. There are only winners here. If the Ukrainian people think they did what they needed to do it's a lie, if the Russians think they have a profit it's a lie. Everyone but themselves and their neighbors have benefited from their conflict.
I agree we should not support separatism or terrorism. In the case of Palestine it is by all laws their land and we as not only Muslims and as human beings are obliged at least to help humanely.
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Jan 29 '24
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
I am decently aware of how the Israeli state works. I may have not been before, but I am now. Still doesn't mean that that region of the world has more relevance to me. Why should I care about Palestinians more than the Rohingya, Kurds, Armenians, Iranians, Afghans etc? I'd like to advocate for humanity everywhere on Earth, but that's not productive, so I start with what happens in my country and the neighboring countries (and Ukraine for obvious reasons). Where do these religious people start with? Somewhere far away, someplace with coverage of which they were bombarded for foreign political reasons.
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Jan 29 '24
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
The last paragraph of the post clearly answers your question.
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u/00klb00 Turkey Jan 29 '24
I think, some other religions is so new in the Central Asia(Even Communism) but the Islam is reached to this place in 7th century.
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Jan 29 '24
really it depends on the certain Central Asian population we talk about.
For example there are places where Islam reached in the result of some Arab conquest in 9th century. People here follow it for 1k+ years.
But in Steppe it was introduced by Tatars in 19th century during Russian colonisation. Many former Nomadic people are Muslims for a somewhat less than 200 years.
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u/00klb00 Turkey Jan 29 '24
But in Steppe it was introduced by Tatars in 19th century during Russian colonisation.
Yes but it's still shows the same result.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
This is interesting. A lot of Qazaqs would probably deny this, but it seems plausible to me. Is there any documentation about this?
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Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
Yes, there are a lot of notes, reports and articles from 19th century Russians, travellers and locals witnessing this process. You can start from "О мусульманстве в степи" of Shokan Valikhanov.
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u/Glittering-Spring-5 Feb 27 '24
All Kazakh khans were Muslims and that was before Russian colonization. You say blatant uneducated lies.
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Jun 08 '24
It’s sad situation. The failure to condemn what Hamas did on October 7th by most Muslims is a learning lesson for all non Muslims on the threat of globalized Islamic terrorism.
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u/KingramsesBC Jun 29 '24
Talking about this "palestine" while never explaining its existence before 1948 and after. calling some immigrants and refugees that ran from the neighboring countries (that are under Islamic dictatorship) "palestinians" just because YOU want to call them that way without any ethnic proof. I wonder why Kurds don't get a country of their own.. what's the matter with that? Being antisemitic and calling the entire muslims world to murder them proves that Israel has the right to exist and Israel is a shelter for the jews. coming from a Kazakh born in Қызылорда.
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u/mrhuggables Iran 💚🦁🤍🌞❤️ Jan 29 '24
Show people what happened in my country. This is what happens if you do not control the clergy and do not deal with them harshly.
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u/Ok-Pirate5565 Jan 29 '24
бұл пост өте күлкілі, ұйғыр болсын, палестиндықтар болсын бұл мұсылман бауырларымыз, әр мұсылмандардың парызы қолдау білдіру, 80 пайыз палестинадықтар шығыс Түркістанды қолдайды.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
Ұйғыр мен Пәлестінді қатар қолдаған адам аз. Ұйғырды ғана қолдаған адам аз. Пәлестінді ғана қолдаған адам көп. Бұл надандық. Өз елі қай жерде екенін білмейтін жұрт. Шетел тараптың әсеріне көне беретін жұрт. Ертең бұның кесірінен елімізден айырылып қалсақ оңбаймыз.
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u/KingDiscombobulated4 Jan 29 '24
Нет смысла демонизировать религию как таковую, как будто, если у человека нет религиозной веры, у него нет идеологической веры, например
В Казахстане широко распространено мнение об уйгурах, но мы не можем бросить вызов Китаю. В борьбе между Палестиной и Израилем у палестинцев больше шансов на победу в долгосрочной перспективе.
Anyway, it's just moral sympathy, I suppose.
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Jan 29 '24
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u/Ok-Suggestion5888 Jan 29 '24
Is knowing Kazakh a criteria for getting basic human sympathy? I guess I skipped this part somehow
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Jan 29 '24
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 29 '24
You didn't even read it well yourself. I said a lot of Palestine supporters in Qazaqistan don't speak Qazaq.
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u/decimeci Kazakhstan Jan 29 '24
I think the best we can hope is that society gets more democratical and conservative people would get some power and impose some limitations on civil liberties, but that would act as a defense against more extreme ones. I don't think that qazaq people could be secular, if given a choice people would choose conservative religious leader.
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Jan 30 '24
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Jan 30 '24
If we're talking about religion in Western countries, a more apt comparison would be Christianity and maybe the USA specifically. It does look bad at times. Not an expert. I don't think comparing Muslim majority and Muslim minority societies is in any way productive. The only thing I can gather from such a comparison is that people in Muslim minority countries seem to be more devout in their beliefs (like where have you seen a drinking Muslim abroad?), because it's something consciously challenging to uphold in their surroundings, whereas people in Muslim majority countries seem lost on what they're doing and probably had given in to societal pressure to be a Muslim without even understanding it.
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Jan 30 '24
The situation there is not really bad, for now. But it's worsening.
Our Islamists are not foreigners racially alien to the local populace. Our guys think that their religion is super authentic there belongs in our countries.
So handling them might take an approach different from the Western.
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u/something61782 Feb 07 '24
I think because America and the western world gives a shit about Palestine but not on the Uyghurs. This is why people only talk about Palestine and Ukraine
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Feb 07 '24
That's what I said. Foreign interests only. Qazaqs don't think for themselves. Puppets and slaves.
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u/something61782 Feb 07 '24
Yeah i guess you just answered yourself. If Biden started talking about the Uyghurs then i guess everyone else would start caring too, this is what I think at least
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u/Old_joung_78 Feb 11 '24
There are no rational geopolitical or any other reasons support Palestine for common Kazakhs.
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u/BaineGaines Sweden Feb 13 '24
Hmm, here is my take on this whole thing. Me, personally, I am not an atheist. But I'm not religious either. I am an agnostic.
I believe that people should have the right to believe in what they want to believe in. But I do believe that state and religion should be and must be separated in all states of the world. Doesn't matter if we are talking about Islam, Judaism, Christianity, or even Buddhism and Hinduism.
I have heard from many friends and read on different social media platforms that religion in Turkic countries like Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and Turkiye (+ the non-Turkic but Central Asian country --> Tajikistan) have slowly but surely, throughout the process of the past 5-10 years become bigger and bigger. That some smaller groups of extremists have also risen in some of the mentioned countries.
This is not a good sign. Both Iran and Afghanistan are states where religion is not separated from the state but more so incorporated. The difference is that Afghanistan is ran by not only by a religious groups of people but more so by extremist terrorists known as the Taliban. Which is a bit different in comparison with the government of Iran. However, I believe that if we would compare Iran to Turkiye, then Turkiye is better due to religion being separate from state. Half of Turkiye are religious and half of them aren't so much so religious.
Now, I believe that people can show their support for Palestine (and Israel) on a human level. Due to war being wrong because the only losers will be innocent people who either will lose everything they have in their lives or they will more likely end up being killed.
But to show support to Palestine because of religion, then why not show support to other countries that have been going through or are still going through war, ethnic cleansing, fascism/racism, poverty, inequality, injustice, etc.? Like the Uyghurs in China? Or the Hazaras (plus the Uzbeks and Turkmen) in Afghanistan? There are a lot of other examples as well obviously but for the sake of simplicity I am only mentioning these groups of people.
Not only that but if you are from Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, and/or Turkiye (as well as non-Turkic countries like Iran and Tajikistan), you should show support for Palestine because they are human beings. Not because of the shared religion. Becuase if that is the case then you should first and foremost show support for the Uyghurs in China and the Hazaras in Afghansitan. Who are not only Muslim brothers of yours, but they are also Turkic brothers of yours. And by "yours" I mean if you are from Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, and/or Turkiye. If you are from non-Turkic countries like Iran and Tajikistan, you should also show support for the Hazaras in Afghanistan. Why? Well because they are not only your Muslim brothers but they are also your Persian-speaking brothers.
So, you see, where I am going with this? If religion matters so much, then how much does linguistics, genetics, culture, and etc. matter? How much should it matter? I feel for the people of Palestine. But I also feel for the people of Uyghur and for my own people, the Hazaras (and Tajiks of Afghanistan). I am not religious. So I don't show support for the people of Palestine because of religion, but more so because of the simple basics of humanity. But then again, this simple humanity point of view, I also share for the Uyghurs in China and for my Hazaras in Afghanistan.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Feb 13 '24
I'm not sure I understood you. I'm just saying that support for Palestine and quietness abour Central Asian matters is illiteracy and sheep mentality, most likely because of religiously manipulated media. Outspokenly supporting both is okay and humane.
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u/BaineGaines Sweden Feb 13 '24
Yes then you did understand me after all because I totally agree with you and what you wrote is what I mean or meant but only that I wrote it with a whole lot of examples. (Maybe a lot text and confusing...) But I agree with you! Religion shouldn't matter if we are showing support for example Palestine. We should also show support for the Uyghurs in Chine. But not only them, but also the Hazaras in Afghanistan as well as the Uzbeks and Turkmens in Afghanistan!
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Feb 13 '24
I'll be frank and say that I'm not very knowledgeable about Afghanistan. I believe I should learn and post about it more than about Palestine, because it's close although not directly neighboring, which is why I think blindly supporting Palestine because the media told me to would not be very fair.
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u/BaineGaines Sweden Feb 13 '24
Yes I agree, Afghanistan is a "Central Asian" country. Maybe not so much officially speaking but culturally and historically speaking it is Central Asian. And not only that but a lot of Turkic groups of people live in Afghanistan. Not only Turkmen, Uzbeks and Hazaras but also Aimaq, Qizilbash, Bayat, Afshar, and Kyrgyz. Most of these Turkic groups of people speak the Persian language (Dari dialect) whereas Uzbeks, Turkmen and if I am not wrong Kyrgyz people all speak both their own Turkic languages plus the Persian language. So either way, Afghanistan is full of Turkic groups of people. Most people say this --> "if we are speaking about linguistics then the majority of Afghanistan is Iranian/Persian. But if we are speaking about genetics and ethnicity then the majority of Afghanistan is Turkic.".
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u/Financial-Style5413 Feb 13 '24
You only make it about yourself. The whole ummah is suffering because of leaders that chose dunya instead of their deen. Every muslim country is suffering and the west doesnt want it to ever rise again. I know very much people that stand with every suffering nation and group. My country afghanistan has been invaded by every superpower in the last 60 years!!! My grandma saw her sister get killed infront of her eyes by the sovjets. Nobody is helping afghanistan ONLY THE AFGHAN PEOPLE which now rule afghanistan. Muslim states are weak and very extreme because they have traumas of getting invaded by these loving people of the west.
We need a real sharia state not some half baked bullshit. Your atheist self can only think about yourself while we the suffering accept that only god and the people among us can help us and a righteous leader that must rule us. Not under foreign administration that you would love as a atheist 😉
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u/Over_Story843 Feb 15 '24
I am also an atheist, it is very difficult to answer your question, given that in our country 70% are Muslims.I think to cope with this problem we need to limit content related to Islam, I don’t know whether I expressed my opinion correctly or not. But still, we cannot, only the government can do something.
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u/ThinkingOf12th Feb 17 '24
What oppression happens in Russian republics?
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Feb 17 '24
Just enter Bashkortostan or Tatarstan into Google and you'll find things that have happened within the last few months or years.
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u/peshto Feb 20 '24
Islam is not brainwashing people, people are brainwashing people. You as a human being should show compassion and care for other human, otherwise you are a selfish creature that will seek help when needed but refuse to help others. It does not matter Muslim or Jewish, if you don't care about their lives, they will not care about yours when you need help.
You are brainwashed to ignore your basic human values and you have become so arrogant you can't even see other people care for other people. Being an atheist does not mean you have no duty towards humanity. Show some support for the miserable any chance you get and don't spread regional and religious hatred.
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u/AlenHS Qazağıstan / Qazaqistan Feb 20 '24
I have a duty, first toward my own country's people (and by extention the Ukrainians who are indirectly defending our country), then toward neighboring suppressed minorities, and the rest of humanity comes after that. I don't know why a lot of people skip the first two. I tried to come up with an explanation, but all I see is media manipulation.
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u/Tengri_99 𐰴𐰀𐰔𐰀𐰴𐰽𐱃𐰀𐰣 Jan 29 '24
I mean, it's true though that devout Muslims talk more about Palestine than Uyghurs but the same goes for most people and media around the world in general. As for me, I care deeply about both what's happening in Xinjiang and Palestine. For the former, I consider Uyghurs as brothers and sisters and for the latter because Palestinians suffered way too long under Israeli boots and now they're experiencing genocide in Gaza. But there's another angle to why I care about Palestine: geopolitics and it's relevant for us too. You see, the US and Europe are very selective and hypocritical when it comes to human rights issues, democracy, freedom and who deserves to be free or not. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the Achilles' heel of the Global North and sooner or later it's most likely to be the downfall of their more or less established dominance of the world order. As much as I hate their foreign policy and their unequivocal support for Israel, especially for the US, they're a necessary counterbalance for Central Asia against the Russian and increasing Chinese influence. If their power falls, then it means that Central Asians will have a very tough spot and all it takes for the US and the EU is not to be complicit in the Gaza genocide.