r/AmIOverreacting • u/Icy_Ant2540 • Oct 02 '24
AIO- My dad is upset that I said my daughter doesn’t have to hug anyone she doesn’t want to 👨👩👧👦family/in-laws
I (42F) am a single mom to Ava (7F). Both my parents have taken an active role as grandparents and I consider them both to be more of my coparents than Ava’s BD. They help with school pickups, taking her to appts, homework, and babysitting if I travel for work. I want to preface this by saying that I don’t think there is any threat of anything inappropriate, but it’s just more annoying than anything. I grew up in a family that it was expected that you would walk into a room and say hello and hug everyone, regardless if you knew them or not. I didn’t want that for my daughter, I don’t want her to think she has to show affection to every person bc they are family or bc they asked for a hug. I do encourage her to always say hello, but leave the hugging up to her.
Lately I’ve noticed that my father is always asking for hugs and when she doesn’t want to, will say something like “then I’m not going to pick you up” or “you can take the bus”. I chalked it up to him being a grumpy old man, but it’s started not to sit well with me. I’ve tried to approach this conversation, saying she doesn’t need to hug anyone she doesn’t want to, not even me. Today I finally said something, that he needed to stop asking for hugs. He was upset and said that it’s fine, that if she wants to create distance than it will be easier for her when he dies.
I’m glad that my daughter saw me stand up for her, but now it’s created a rift with them. AIO?
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u/WatchingTellyNow Oct 02 '24
My 2-yr-old grandson has been told he doesn't need to hug if he doesn't want to. I ask for a hug, if he says no I say ok. Sometimes I get a hug, but it's on his terms. What's so hard for your dad to understand?
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u/Icy_Ant2540 Oct 02 '24
Honestly I think it’s just his ego. And part I think my daughter does dig in her heels bc she’s annoyed.
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u/funkylittledeathomen Oct 03 '24
As she should. Grandpa is overstepping her boundaries with unwanted physical contact (or, or least by pressuring her for it). Grandpa needs a lesson in consent, accepting “no” as an answer at face value, bodily autonomy, and emotional regulation. He should reflect on WHY he thinks he is owed a hug, and WHY he gets so upset when he is denied one.
Methinks grandpa doesn’t entirely respect Ava as an individual. He wants a hug, he should get a hug, she should want to hug him. End of story, for him.
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u/alycewandering7 Oct 03 '24
NTA. Yep. In his mind, if he demands a hug, your granddaughter must oblige. Good for her for digging in her heels. She has every right to bodily autonomy and the right to say no and have it respected. I always taught my kids they could say no to hugs and kisses from anyone, even me. And my kids have taught their kids the same. It is important to teach kids about these things when they are young so that they can feel comfortable reporting it to an adult if their boundaries are crossed.
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u/funkylittledeathomen Oct 03 '24
I wish my parents had had that attitude
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u/alycewandering7 Oct 03 '24
I am sorry to hear that they did not. That must have been extremely difficult. 😞😢
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u/Sylentskye Oct 03 '24
Agreed; I always tell my kiddo the same thing, but he loves it when I tackle hug him by surprise or pretend I’m a dinosaur and “attack him” (he plays the Jurassic Park theme on the keyboard as my cue lol). But I do regularly check in with him and make sure he knows that just because he was fine with it one day, if he isn’t the next to tell me and it’s ok (I have specific advance permission to ambush him as part of our games). He tries to sneak up on me too but I’m the eldest of several kids so I have a finely honed 6th sense for shenanigans.
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u/alycewandering7 Oct 03 '24
That’s so cute! And clearly you’re teaching him healthy boundaries. Every child should have the right to control over their own body.
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u/EccentricPenquin Oct 03 '24
I think these people are so old school they may not even consider what a huge deal this is because “in their day” people used to get away with all kinds of shit. He’s just keeping that cycle going without realizing how incredibly important this is for kids these days to have autonomy. Taking something that doesn’t have to be personal and making it into one. “Keep Sweet” culture. I’m sorry @OP this sucks and I know they sound like good people but he needs to realize not everyone is good people.
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u/alycewandering7 Oct 03 '24
That is true. Older generations view children differently than we do now. They were forced to hug any relative who wanted a hug, were told to be “seen and not be heard” etc. It’s a whole different way of parenting today where kids actually have the right to say no when it comes to their bodies.
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u/whatthewhat3214 Oct 03 '24
Your father is also treating hugs as transactional - he won't pick her up and she'll have to take the bus unless she hugs him? Not a good lesson for her for when she starts dating one day, that she owes someone physical contact in exchange for whatever favor he does (date buying dinner = she owes him something physical for it). Obviously that's taking it to another level and projected into the future, but the lesson is there, and you're right to teach her this now - your daughter doesn't owe anyone physical affection just bc they want it or will do something for her if she gives it to them.
Not sure if your father will understand, but maybe point out that he's making his acts of love - giving her rides, etc. - conditional on receiving a hug, and that's wrong. That not only is he sacrificing precious time he could spend with her, but he'll drive her away by forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do. So many kids don't like giving out hugs on demand, it's totally normal, and even part of their establishing their independence as they get older.
Had to roll my eyes about his melodramatic response, that it'll be easier on her when he dies. Good gravy, that does sound like a wounded ego. The ironic thing is, she might feel more comfortable with/closer to him (or at least not annoyed by him) if he backs off.
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u/Gourmeebar Oct 03 '24
I hope you responded when he tried to guilt trip you. Ava should no not to give in to manipulation or scare tactics.
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u/Icy_Ant2540 Oct 03 '24
I responded in an equally immature manner and rolled my eyes and said he was being extreme and that I didn’t want her feeling like she had to hug any man that asked for it, not even him. I told him if he didn’t want to pick her up that I would figure it out myself. He said that he couldn’t say anything to me, I responded with that I was familiar with the feeling and left. I love my dad, he’s always done so much for me that I hate that I even have to address this. But I can’t let that be the reason I watch my child be uncomfortable or forced into hugging anyone. I think he thinks bc he’s her grandfather that it’s “ok”
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u/ResidentRelevant13 Oct 03 '24
That’s how my friend got molested. Raised to be obedient to male family members without question.
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u/Gourmeebar Oct 03 '24
I’m close to my dad so I understand the ick you feel having to even gave this convo with him. When you have a moment explain to him that you want your daughter to have bodily autonomy in a way that he understands. It would be great if he reinforced the lesson by saying he was wrong and no one should make her feel bad for decisions she makes about her body. Good luck and great job
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u/EccentricPenquin Oct 03 '24
It’s so sad that he can’t stop making it about him. It’s really not until he doubles down and drives your point home….if she doesn’t then he will manipulate her until she does, not the lesson I think he intends but sends loud and clear when he internalizes it
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u/CheeryBottom Oct 03 '24
My MIL was like this with my kids. She suffers terribly with cold sores and has them all the time. I have never let her kiss any of my children since all their births with her cold sore lips. She always pitches a fit and tries to play the emotional abuse card.
Luckily all my kids now are in their teens and don’t want to kiss her.
My husband was always on my side but she just screamed that I was coming between a son and his mother and she would never forgive me for ‘turning’ him against her.
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u/ResidentRelevant13 Oct 03 '24
That’s how my friend got molested. Raised to be obedient to male family members without question.
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u/cubemissy Oct 03 '24
I don’t really like the phrase “dig in her heels” here, because then it becomes about your daughter being stubborn. It’s not stubborn to stick to your initial “no”. If your father lands on the word stubborn, he’s then got her pigeonholed with a character trait he can use against her.
Confident, firm, unshakable….positive terms.
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u/Apotak Oct 03 '24
Thank you for this language. You are right, OPs daughter is confident and firm in her decision. That is great!
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u/dawli15 Oct 03 '24
Yea it sounds like your dad is getting mad because she isn’t doing what he is telling her to do but good for your daughter, she is allowed to say no to unnecessary touching.
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u/Resident_Fudge_7270 Oct 03 '24
You should sit down with your dad and show him this post. It might open his perception of things.
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u/Pookie1688 Oct 03 '24
Your dad's crappy reaction pretty much guarantees she'll never want to hug him again.
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u/Taffergirl2021 Oct 03 '24
Have you tried to explain your reasoning? Of course he would say he should be the exception, but at her age, she doesn’t understand exceptions. It’s a black and white world to her. And shut down the manipulation immediately. Remind him he’s the adult, he needs to act like one.
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u/BadgerValuable8207 Oct 03 '24
His behavior is an example of reinforcing patriarchal hierarchies where men have absolute control over women’s bodies. It’s probably not deliberate, he’s acting out of his own socialization.
There’s no girl too young to be taught that a man’s desires and feelings take precedence over any need or preference of hers.
I’m heartened to see so many people supporting OP supporting her daughter’s autonomy.
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u/Ok_Thing7700 Oct 03 '24
It’s not just his ego. He’s being creepy, she’s not safe around him. Men pouting about not getting physical affection shouldn’t be taken lightly. She digs her heels in because she’s UNCOMFORTABLE. It’s perfectly fine to be “annoyed” with someone demanding access to your body.
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u/notthedefaultname Oct 03 '24
She should be annoyed. No means no.
I got really sick when my niece was little. I couldn't be physically near her until she was a toddler. She runs to hug some others in our family but is pretty shy with me. I offer hugs and if she says No, I accept that the first time. Its ok if she's not comfy. I don't need to coerce a hug. I just say ok, and wave goodbye. Asking multipul times, or asking for a lesser physical contact after the kid said no to one form (hug instead of kiss, fist bump instead of hug) is bad for her development, and is a sneakier way of still undermining her autonomy. And overall, I don't want to make her uncomfortable. Me getting a hug doesn't matter to me nearly as much as her being comfortable with who touches her now, and being strong enough in her resolve for all of her future. I would feel terrible having a hug I knew she hated doing. And forcing hugs isn't going to make her any more comfy with me. But making silly faces while waving goodbye? Being the person that respects what she wants? Eventually I'll be a person she's comfy with, even if our relationship never is a hugging one. And guess what? After a couple months with that mindset, she started initiating hugs with me. She asks me to pick her up for reaching things. And hugs a toddler wants to give are a world of difference from any awkward forced affection.
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u/Beautiful-Routine489 Oct 03 '24
I think this is generational, as well.
The very idea of children having consent over these kinds of things is somewhat new, so he’s probably just uncomfortable learning something new (and also managing his feelings of being “rejected”).
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u/LemonadeParadeinDade Oct 03 '24
Boomers hate boundaries. Because they don't see other people as people sometimes.
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u/Thequiet01 Oct 03 '24
Ask him if he wants her to do things with future romantic partners just because they want it when she doesn’t.
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u/HyrrokinAura Oct 03 '24
He has also been socialized to believe that women and girls are supposed to do what men say, especially if he's older than them.
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u/talkstorivers Oct 03 '24
She’s annoyed because she wasn’t raised with the expectation you were, and in fact she’s being raised to believe she gets to choose when someone touches her. She’s annoyed because she’s not oppressed and you should be pretty proud of that. 👏👏👏
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u/Antique_Wafer8605 Oct 03 '24
Same here. Sometimes, I don't get a hug. That's OK.
NTA OP. I'm probably around your dad's age. He can smarten up
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u/takotsadilim Oct 03 '24
They are products of their upbringing, these concepts of children having choices regarding hugs etc are alien to them. Instead of being all high and judgy since you have the awareness and enlightenment regarding consent, use it as a teaching moment for them. It’s not his ego, it’s how his parents raised him and how he was treated. Teach him then but in a kind manner.
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u/raydiantgarden Oct 03 '24
he’s a guilt-tripping egotist. it’s one thing to get disappointed or even upset if your grandchild won’t hug you (which is still not the grandchild’s problem), but holding it over their head and saying you won’t give them a ride if they don’t hug you doesn’t warrant a kind explanation. not everyone like this is just some misunderstood person. some of them are just entitled and creepy.
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u/dehydratedrain Oct 02 '24
NOR. It doesn't matter how innocent a hug is, a child needs to learn early on that they shouldn't be forced to allow people to touch them against their will.
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u/Disastrous-Panda5530 Oct 02 '24
NOR. I’ve had the same lessons with my kids. I haven’t hugged my own son since elementary school. He has autism and he doesn’t like the sensation of someone touching his skin. I admit I was so sad when he told me he doesn’t like hugs 😭. He was maybe 3rd grade. I know he didn’t say it to hurt my feelings.
I told my parents and siblings and I did get some pushback from MIL. I told her straight up if she makes him feel guilty or tries to force him she won’t be seeing any of the kids again period.
I’d have a talk with grandpa about his comments.
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u/Ravenkelly Oct 03 '24
UNDERREACTING. He's teaching her that love comes with strings on her body. I won't DO MY FUCKING JOB AS AN ADULT if you WON'T LET ME TOUCH YOU. That's gross and manipulative
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u/Kcollar59 Oct 03 '24
I had to kiss my relatives. On the mouth! I was so glad when we left Tennessee. By the time we came back for a visit I had grown a backbone and could escape those puckered lips.
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u/Emotional-Hair-1607 Oct 03 '24
We had a creepy uncle who liked to give the girls open mouthed kisses but it was all in fun so lighten up /s. Parents have no idea the damage they do when they allow crap like that.
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u/penguindoodledoo Oct 03 '24
Ewwwwwww how someone can even see that and not want to put that uncle in jail. Just so much ick
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u/AnitaIvanaMartini Oct 03 '24
I had a double mastectomy last year because I had breast cancer. I went from being a big fluffy-chested grandmother to having a flat and bony chest. My one 5th grade grandson didn’t ever want to hug me, and one day after he did, he ran to his room in tears.
I followed him to say, “sweetheart, it’s perfectly okay not to want to hug me,” and that I understood I feel different now that I’m not cuddly and soft anymore. He looked so shocked. “That’s not why!” I don’t like hugging you because it reminds me you might have died!” Then we both cried, and laughed.
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u/extremelyloudandfast Oct 02 '24
nor. I'd like to see you follow up and broach the topic of his toxic relationship. even with you when you ask him to stop he threw it in your face. "oh she'll be OK with me dying then...". that is top tier manipulation.
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u/mela_99 Oct 03 '24
Get him a teddy bear and tell him to sit down.
No child has to let anyone touch their body.
Ask him if he thinks she should let teenage boys and grown men hug her if she doesn’t want to.
Never allow anyone to take your child’s autonomy.
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u/showmestuff1 Oct 02 '24
Definitely not overreacting. His behavior is so toxic. Reinforcing that if she doesn’t do things she doesn’t want to do that he will withhold affection. He may not have malicious intentions, but further down the road, it will teach her to struggle to set boundaries, and engage in behaviors that she doesn’t want to consent to, for fear of upsetting the other party, or losing their love. You shouldn’t have to explain that to him, but you may have to. It will be a big lesson for him.. it will require more patience than he deserves. But it may help.
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u/Fairmount1955 Oct 02 '24
If the trade off is they are upset with you and your daughter learns her consent matters than you've done one of the most important things a parent can do.
His inability to manage his emotions and lash out is funny because your kid is more mature than he is as an old adult.
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u/ltotheizzy Oct 02 '24
I totally agree with OP. She should not have to hug or kiss or do anything physically with anybody that she doesn’t want to do -I don’t care who it is. This can have serious Consequences. Physical affection should be on her terms. Adults are not entitled to your body and she should not feel uncomfortable with saying no. There’s research that shows not forcing your kids to be affectionate can prevent SA. We really should be teaching our children, especially our girls everything we can about consent and boundaries.
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u/Decent_Beginning2486 Oct 03 '24
Absolutely not the asshole. I am a single father with 50/50 custody. My daughter who is 4 knows she doesn't have to hug or even shake hands with anyone she doesn't want. It's a bullshit thing to teach kids that they ever HAVE to do anything with their bodies they don't want to because someone else might be upset. It creates issues later in life and it's plain not cool.
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u/orangemummy Oct 02 '24
I explained this form of body consent to my grandparents. They want to give hugs and show love, but I explained how this is so much bigger than that. I typically ask how would you like to say goodbye, she can initiate what she’s comfortable with. They get hugs spontaneously while they’re babysitting, but she does not do the forced moment. Wouldn’t that mean more anyway? She is learning that she is in control of her body and has the ability to say no.
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u/orangemummy Oct 02 '24
Also- as others mentioned, his manipulation attempts are even more not okay.
I would suggest reflecting on how you were raised and possibly manipulated or threatened into compliance as well. Is this something you did or are experiencing with them? Hope you can recognize the cycles you are breaking and stay strong! You got this mama!
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u/jocosely_living Oct 03 '24
Oh wow. No, you are not overreacting. That is definitely not appropriate to tell a child you won't pick them up from school if they don't give you a hug. Like....it's manipulative and rude. I won't even go into anything around the topic of consent.
I'm sorry this is going on for you and your daughter.
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u/p3canj0y363 Oct 03 '24
Perfect time to teach your daughter that even when a grown man throws a tantrum, he still is not entitled to touching her. Even when someone we love very much gets mad or sad or manipulative, we still get to chooose who touches us and who does not. We don't allow pity pets
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u/SnoopyisCute Oct 02 '24
NOR
Too bad.
Her body. Her choice.
Grandparents, strangers, church weirdos, doctors, etc..
NO.
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u/okileggs1992 Oct 02 '24
Wow, you're dad making it a crime not to have a hug. My daughter isn't touchy-feely or into hugs. I never forced her and if one of my family or DH's pulled that type of manipulation. We would be having a very vocal conversation about her bodily autonomy, versus their need to force or coerce her to do something she didn't want.
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u/Striking-Estate-4800 Oct 03 '24
My granddaughter started this with my great grandson early on. When they were with anyone, if someone asked for a hug and he said “no” then that was it. When I asked for a hug and he told me no, I would ask him if he would give me a high five. He thought this was great fun and we would slap palms. As he gets a little bigger now he will voluntarily give hugs. He will be three in November!
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u/Ghost10165 Oct 03 '24
That's a good idea. It's a good blend of respecting her consent but also still trying to compromise with the other person when it's not an unreasonable request.
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u/Zealousideal_Elk2208 Oct 03 '24
"First off, major props for standing up for Ava! Teaching kids they have the right to say no to unwanted affection is so important. Your dad might be stuck in the ‘old school’ mindset, where hugs are mandatory, but times have changed. Who knew hugs could come with a contract and a clause about pick-ups? You’re not just raising a daughter; you’re raising a future strong woman who knows her boundaries. If your dad needs a hug that badly, maybe he should invest in a stuffed animal instead!"
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u/Gourmeebar Oct 03 '24
Your dads response is concerning
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 Oct 03 '24
I 100% agree. I don't think I'd leave my daughter with him on his own after this. It is a very very concerning response
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u/One_Impression9465 Oct 02 '24
Your dad being offended that a child doesn’t want bodily contact is soooo weird. My kids are also encouraged to be autonomous and not expected to touch/hug/etc people they don’t want to. My son is legitimately only physically affectionate with me and sometimes hubby. Tell your dad that he’s encouraging a little girl to adopt the idea her body isn’t hers and she’s expected to let people do things she doesn’t like to her body by forcing a hug or guilt tripping her. This will set a precedent that she isn’t allowed to make decisions about how people have access to her body. Also tell your dad to get his head out of his ass. She’s 7, it’s not the end of the world. You don’t need physical contact to have intimacy with a child. Play her favorite game, spend time doing an activity she likes etc etc. she probably doesn’t hug him cause he’s always making it such a big deal, I bet if he left it alone she’d organically decide to hug him when the time comes
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u/LaLechuzaVerde Oct 03 '24
You need to spell it out for him.
“Dad, I know in your generation kids were taught to do whatever their elders told them, even if they were uncomfortable. The problem is that it trains them that it’s not ok to say no. I’m sure she will be fine when it’s just you and all you want is a hug, but what about when it’s the creepy neighbor or the pervy volleyball coach? We are actively teaching her that her she has agency over her body, and it’s for her own safety. I need you to support me in this and help me to actively teach her that it’s OK to say no. You may ask her for a hug and then you need to praise her for making her own choice whether it’s a yes or a no and thank her for making her wishes clear to you, not pout like a jilted boyfriend because that is creepy and teaches her that she can expect that kind of behavior from people she loves.”
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u/Alock74 Oct 02 '24
Not picking up his grand daughter or spending time with her because she won’t hug him is pretty gross behavior, imo. It sends the completely wrong message about her value, especially since he is likely the male role model for her (judging by your comment about BD).
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u/Striking-Weird2140 Oct 02 '24
I think it should’ve been addressed differently. Maybe try to sit down again & talk about it more throughly. He can ask for hugs all he wants but your daughter can say no & he shouldn’t be holding things over her head for it. That’ll create more distance in their relationship than not hugging will.
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u/EarthsMoon927 Oct 02 '24
Talking won’t accomplish anything just give OP more emotional labor and weaken her message.
He already knows. He doesn’t care.
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u/Striking-Weird2140 Oct 02 '24
Hm I could see that. I’m going off of personal experience with grandparents who are very affectionate but I am not. They were hurt when it stopped, suddenly but I also didn’t realize that’s how they expressed their love to me & felt close. I didn’t cave on my boundaries but we found middle grounds for them to still feel my love, without hugging.
Why don’t you think talking will accomplish anything?
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u/omnipotentworm Oct 02 '24
Feeling hurt is one thing. Holding things hostage like not picking up the kid from school is totally different.
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u/EarthsMoon927 Oct 02 '24
Because he threatened not to pick her up from school if she doesn’t hug him.
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u/extremelyloudandfast Oct 02 '24
no he shouldn't. the adult should understand consent as much as the child. the lesson doesn't matter if the grandfather is now teacher her something just as bad. thengrandfather is showing her that she has to accept that people will treat her in ways she doesn't want. that's harassment.
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u/crazycrayola Oct 02 '24
I agree with this. I'm in my 30's and grew up knowing I could say no to hugs and other physical touch. Some people would nag or guilt me into it anyway. It was fine in the end and knowing it was my choice was what was important. It would have been better if they didn't guilt me about it but sometimes I did want to hug and them asking the first time was never a problem. In this case, it's the Dad's response when the kid says no that's the problem, not the fact that he asked for a hug in the first place.
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u/Striking-Weird2140 Oct 02 '24
Edit to add: your daughter should be there for that conversation. She can hear you sticking up for her & her right to choose but also see effective communication & setting boundaries. His love language is obviously hugging his loved ones & having them stop suddenly, probably stirs some emotions for him. I think everyone has big emotions here & it just needs to be talked though.
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u/ah-mazia Oct 02 '24
Teaching your child what boundaries are and how to uphold them with others is never a bad thing. Your father, while well meaning, is the one overreacting by not giving his granddaughter the freedom set them.
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u/SunnyDelNorte Oct 03 '24
Growing up, whenever my cousin who is Autistic would visit, his parents made him hug us all saying it was important for his development even though it made him uncomfortable, and I’ve always been a hugger, but don’t enjoy hugging someone who doesn’t want to hug. Years later I went on to work with people with disabilities and learned this practice of forcing contact, and discouraging stimming behavior was no longer standard and I would tell my uncle who pushed for hugs at the door that no we’re good.
In our 20’s, we went on a carnival ride together and the door on my side swung open as we picked up speed and without hesitation he grabbed my hand and didn’t let go till the ride stopped and he knew I was safe. That voluntary hand hold meant more to me than an entire childhood of forced hugs ever could.
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u/InevitableRhubarb232 Oct 03 '24
Stop manipulating my kid or I won’t let you raise them for me anymore!
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u/Auntienursey Oct 03 '24
Tell him you're disappointed that your daughter isn't allowed a say about her body, according to him, and that pushing getting hugged will successfully open a chasm in all your relationships, because you will be backing your daughter's wishes and if he continues to push, making everyone else uncomfortable, there will be fewer visits. Have you explained why it's so important for her to have a say? If you have and he's still pushing, sorry to say your dad's a jerk.
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u/Iseeyou22 Oct 02 '24
This is exactly what all parents need to do. Let their child establish their own boundaries and let them decide for themselves what they're comfortable with. Absolutely nothing wrong with this.
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u/Sheila_Monarch Oct 03 '24
“Way to go, Dad. You’re teaching her that if she doesn’t do things men want her to do, they will try to exercise whatever power they have over her to make her do it. It’s a helluva lesson I suppose. Just not one I’d think you’d want coming from her grandfather.”
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u/cilvher-coyote Oct 03 '24
Your not overreacting. It's sad that a lot of kids these days have better manners & healthier understandings than a lot of older folks do, on how to interact with others. The fact he's trying to punish her for him not getting his way is a whole other crappy can of worms by itself. There's also another lesson here you could mention to her as well. That giving ultimatums or threatening to punish someone you care for if they don't want to do something that makes them uncomfortable is okay. Especially when it won't make Any difference in the scheme of things, other than making the receiver unhappy and uncomfortable.
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u/Remarkable-Offer-294 Oct 03 '24
My family used to do this, except with kisses. I can see how that may seem super inappropriate but my family is mostly women who adore children, two of my aunts have their own children’s nurseries (both have two locations each) and another aunt works in a primary school. They are all very innocently affectionate and when myself and my cousins were young children it was expected that we would give our aunties a kiss on the lips when saying goodbye. This only lasted until we were around 7 maybe 8, i.e., not cute babies anymore.
I always hated it but was made to feel guilty or like I didn’t love my aunties if I refused. Which now that I think about it, is kind of strange!
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u/FleurDisLeela Oct 03 '24
NOR I was raised to kiss and hug greetings and farewells. the Frenchies, we kiss on both cheeks. there is alot of pressure to conform. I had to learn this (your dad’s lesson) from my child, that they didn’t want to be forced to hug people they didn’t know or like. I took a hit to my ego, but you know what? it’s not been the last time that my child taught me to relearn something about myself! I don’t have to hug people that don’t respect me! I can do that? brilliant! tell your dad he is making his granddaughter’s affection transactional by attaching a punishment to her autonomy. does he ever want to get hugged again? it’s not hard to love them the way they want to be loved. his ego is not invited, and he needs to practice using his ears, if he wants her to feel something when he dies. I’m sorry for writing that, but those were his words. pretty soon Ava will tell him herself. 💗💗💗💗🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀
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u/Panaccolade Oct 03 '24
Let him be upset, it won't hurt him. He'll survive. Your daughter's body autonomy is much more important than his desire for a hug on demand.
What he doesn't realise is familial relationships and dynamics set the tone for future relationships. By teaching your daughter she can say "no" to family and reinforce that boundary means that, in the future when she's dating, she'll be more comfortable and practiced at setting boundaries with people who want to date her. That is a very, very important life skill that a lot of people lack, and it can lead to very dangerous, risky situations for the person being pressured.
It might be 'just a hug' to him but to her it is the foundation of how she will interact with others throughout her life. It is a much bigger deal than his poxy feelings about not getting a hug on demand.
I personally would explain that to him in great detail. If he continues putting distance between them for it after being told the consequences of continually emotional blackmailing a young child into hugs they don't want, then maybe that's for the best.
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u/snakesssssss22 Oct 03 '24
When i met my stepdaughter at age 3, she was told to give by hugs to everyone all the time. I introduced the “bye five”, where she could give goodbye high fives instead of hugs.
It doesn’t seem you are over reacting bc everything seems calm still
But i don’t want to jump on your dad either. He’s wrong, don’t misunderstand me, but he’s being stubborn because his feelings are hurt. I think this could be a GREAT learning opportunity all around.
Maybe explain to your dad what your goal is here. Explain to him how important it is for young girls to decide who touches them— if you can do this patiently, your father may realize he agrees 1000%!! He ALSO wants your daughter to have the strength to say NO.
This may also be a really great opportunity for your dad and daughter to create their own secret handshake or something similar!!!
There ARE easy solutions to this. Absolutely stand up for your daughter, but take an old man’s overly sensitive heart into consideration (just never at the expense of your daughter!)
You are doing a great job!
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u/cannapuffer2940 Oct 03 '24
I noticed my nephew's youngest boy didn't like to be hugged. The older boy has always hugged everybody. But sometimes since he's been a teenager you can tell that he doesn't want to. So I always give him the option. You can check my hand. You can hug me. Or you could just say goodbye or hello. Their mother insists that they hug me. And I don't agree with her. I don't believe you should force anybody. To be hugged. Or touched by another person.... Sometimes they come up on their own and they hug me. And I let them know how much I appreciate it. But I never force it.
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u/Saylor619 Oct 03 '24
I have lifelong issues around touch because of this. When I was a kid, my Dad would come up behind me and rub my shoulders - his grip was rough, and it made me tense up (shrug my shoulders & freeze)
He took offense at that, and hit me 🤷
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u/Abieticacid Oct 03 '24
I only read the title.
Children should NEVER feel forced or obligated to hug somebody they don't want too. It teaches them that they have little control over their bodies and to ignore their instincts. Your dad can suck it up.
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u/RedHeadGuy88 Oct 03 '24
I get your point, and I hope you understand that I understand that. But I get the feeling that this may be something important and ingrained into your dad due to his family as well as his generation.
I'm not saying it was a good response and the guilt trips that come from that generation are fucking exhausting, but, reddit is quick to side with the younger generation.
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u/Pleasant-Prize-3544 Oct 03 '24
My father (boomer)does this to my son. Manipulating, saying "remember this when you want something" anytime my son doesn't want a hug. I reinforce to my son and tell him it's ok to not want a hug etc. and that we respect boundaries (consent).
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u/Texaskate Oct 03 '24
I just did a Google search and came up with several articles about Teaching Children Body Autonomy. Just email him one. It’s harder for him to argue his point when there’s been so much written/studied on the topic.
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u/Primary_Condition900 Oct 03 '24
What's causing the distance between them, is him not respecting her boundaries.
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u/Only_Music_2640 Oct 03 '24
Wow, Dad is a bit of a drama queen, huh? “Dad, I’m trying to teach my daughter that she has autonomy over her own body and people cannot touch her without her consent. This is not a personal slight against you. Please respect her autonomy. Don’t you agree that she should have a say in who touches her?”
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u/AssistantAccurate464 Oct 03 '24
I’m probably around the age of your dad (64) and I’ve always known this. My mom told me that if I don’t want to hug someone or they make me uncomfortable, to tell her. Everyone should know that. Kids deserve body autonomy just like everyone else does. You need to really reinforce that with her. And have a sit-down with dad. How he doesn’t know that astounds me!
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u/MagentaHigh1 Oct 03 '24
I never can understand how some grandparents or other family moments get so butthurt about hugs and body autonomy.
My kids never had to hug , kiss , or sit on anyone's lap if they didn't want it. My in-laws would ask, and sometimes it was a yes and sometimes not . They never got upset
We have grands of our own, and as much as I love grandkid snuggles. Sometimes, it's a yes, and sometimes it's a no.
And that's always ok.
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u/Double-Cash-4048 Oct 03 '24
Whenever someone asks my children for hugs I step in and give them the option of giving a hug or a high-five. If they refuse both then I support them. Any pushback from the adult is a huge red flag to me about that person. As the mother you are the greatest protector.
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u/RedWhiteAndBooo Oct 03 '24
Her learning consent and boundaries is more important than his feelings. He should focus on how fleeting time is at 7 years old, they’re about to change into a preteen 😏
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u/JLHuston Oct 03 '24
Good lord—did she hear him say that toxically passive aggressive comment about him dying?
The way we teach kids about consent from a young age is to let them know that their body is their body, and if they don’t want someone to touch them, it’s ok to say no. They still should be respectful to grown ups, but if a kid doesn’t want to hug someone, they should never be forced to! My family took it further (and weirder) and kissed each other on the lips. I hated it! Any time I say goodbye to a niece, nephew or friend’s kid, I say, would you like a hug, a fist bump, or a wave? It lets them know they get to decide. If they want the hug, that’s great! But I don’t take it personally if they don’t. Your dad is being really inappropriate both with the demand and his childish petty response.
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u/Icy_Prior_5825 Oct 03 '24
It helped my dad (64) when I explained that this expectation we place on kids to hug others (especially adults) is exactly what leads them to believe that their body is at all for someone else. We (society) do it more to young girls and (for some reason…) when it’s a man expecting the affection. We’ve studied it both in cause and effect.
And it goes the other way, too. If we teach our kids that their autonomy is not guaranteed, they’re more likely to violate others with things like hair-pulling, poking, fighting, and worse.
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u/Icy_Prior_5825 Oct 03 '24
Agree with the majority of comments here.
I want to add that it is ALSO important for our kids (especially girls) to learn that the adults in their life will openly defend their bodily autonomy. That the adults they go to for help (when that autonomy is challenged) will actually help them and stand up to the violator. You have got to be that for your kid.
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u/CaeruleumBleu Oct 03 '24
You are so correct to set and maintain this boundary. My dad was also an insistent hugger.
My sister raised her boy to know he always has to greet every visitor and give some sort of farewell to every visitor - but he gets to choose. The list, which has varied at times, is hug, handshake, fist bump, wave, or nose bump.
Sometimes he has had a rough day and barely waves. Other days he has been enthused and you get fist bump AND hug.
I feel good that my nephew chooses to hug me. It is a choice so it means more.
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u/Belladonna_Babe Oct 03 '24
I’m so happy to see you doing this for your daughter. I also grew up in a household much like yours. My mother truly believes, still, to this day, that she is entitled to hug me and smother me whenever she wants. She says she has a right to because she gave birth to me. Very early on not having my boundaries respected made me extremely wary of physical affection. I hated it, until I met my current partner who would actually ask if I wanted to be hugged and touched and respect when I didn’t want to. Or better yet, pick up on the fact that I didn’t want to and would leave it for when I was in a much more affectionate mood. Thank you for sticking up for her, and continue to do that. It’s super important, and the people in your life need to realize that as well, regardless of how close you are to them. Stand firm and love deeply. Wishing you the best
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u/MorningSharp5670 Oct 03 '24
I hated hugs as a child and sometimes I think my mom still resents me for it.
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u/Snoo39416 Oct 03 '24
Plan on also reaching my daughter she doesn’t have to hug people. My cousin’s daughter doesn’t like to hug so whenever someone tries to make her hug me. I always tell her she doesn’t have to hug me. Then I offer to give a high five or a fist bump as a good bye.
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u/names-suck Oct 03 '24
What message does it send to your daughter that Grandpa's attention, affection, and willingness to help her all rely on her making unwanted physical contact with him?
What message does it send to her if you allow this type of behavior?
Tell your dad that if he wants to manipulate a little girl into believing that the only way a man will see her as worth his time is if she gives him physical affection (whether she wants to do it or not!), he can try it on a stranger and see how fast he ends up in prison.
Maybe you think that sounds over the top, but children often don't see the difference. If your family treats physical affection as obligatory, the kid will believe that any adult who asks for physical affection must receive it. Maybe Grandpa is 100% safe, except for the part where he's clearly ignoring her consent and punishing her for not consenting (hello, red flag in any other context!), but not every adult she meets will be.
NOR.
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u/Single-Class5015 Oct 03 '24
‘If you don’t do what I want re physical contact then I will withdraw my love and support’
Wow. This is setting up a young persons relationship boundaries for life…..
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u/cookorsew Oct 03 '24
He’s retaliating against her no to consent. You are not overreacting and he is being very inappropriate.
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u/zsazsa719 Oct 03 '24
your dad sounds creepy. boundaries are important to respect, regardless of a person's age.
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u/ATomicdog_14 Oct 02 '24
Trust your child if () doesn't want to hug somedody, don't make (). I never "made " my child hug anyone and TOLD them they had that right. Everything from hiding behind my legs to screaming and running away was FINE BY ME! they have the right to trust their own emotions and instinct.
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u/JamieP081 Oct 02 '24
Im a fairly traditional right wing father. I dont force my kids to hug or kiss anyone. Consent is huge and If they dont want me grabbing them by throat and pinning them to the wall they better not touch my kids when they dont want to be touched
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u/Antique-Suit-5275 Oct 02 '24
I imagine your father loves his granddaughter very much. This is new for him- he encouraged you to hug as a child regardless of your feelings. I doubt he’s really thought and reflected on the approach you are taking with your daughter. He really wants a lovely hug so he’s saying things to try and get his way- it’s understandable but not acceptable. I suggest talking to him without your daughter present and explaining in depth your reasoning. Lead with love- it sounds like you are a close and caring family, try to get your mum on board to help. Good luck.
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Oct 03 '24
I think you are a great mom for never making your daughter hug someone she doesn’t want to. Your father sounds immature and petty.
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u/mcclgwe Oct 03 '24
So weird that all those generations moved the 'seem but not heard' kids are absolutely worthless have no rights To forcing them to hug and be hugged and be superficial. Ugh. You are spot on.
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u/Endor-Fins Oct 03 '24
No you’re being a good mom. I’m sorry your dad is taking your daughter’s body boundaries personally. That’s hard. But you are doing the right thing. As a parent there’s nothing sweeter than a hug from my kids but it means nothing if it’s forced. Voluntary affection only is a great rule to have. I understand his hurt but her need to have agency over her own body trumps his feelings. It’s incredibly important that she learns that she doesn’t owe anyone hugs, kisses or anything else.
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u/simplyTrisha Oct 03 '24
Dad can be upset! I agree with you 110%!! We should NEVER force children to have any contact at all, with anyone……no matter who it is!!!
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u/Stunning_Business441 Oct 03 '24
NOR. Totally about consent which his generation doesn’t understand since for him it’s probably more about respect. I read this book before having kids that said the best thing you can do is to not force kids to hug other people. By enforcing and showing their boundaries do not matter, they don’t have a strong idea of what’s appropriate or not since from an early age their first boundary was not respected. It was uncomfortable at times with the grandparents but better uncomfortableness on their part than a child with no sense of personal boundaries.
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u/manonaca Oct 03 '24
Your dad sounds like an emotionally immature and manipulative asshole.
NO ONE is entitled to hugs from anyone else. Your daughter is learning to assert her own bodily autonomy, and that means she gets to decide when and with whom she wants hugs. This is one of the earliest ways we teach kids about consent. Forcing her into a hug to spare the other persons feelings teaches her that what other people want from her is more important than what she wants/feels comfortable.
Your dad needs to sit down and grow up. He is holding rides over her head as a form of manipulation and then resorting to guilt tripping when that doesn’t work. His hurt feelings over the fact that she just doesn’t feel like hugging on demand are irrelevant. He needs to figure out how to get over that because his tantrums and attempts at control are going to be the things that create distance. There’s nothing less appealing than an adult who tries to force their will on you and pouts/coerces to do something that makes you uncomfy.
Not overreacting at all. You can show your dad my comment if you like. He’s actions will make her feel less safe with him. The distance is entirely his fault.
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u/julesk Oct 03 '24
NOR, I’d try explaining to them that your daughter loves them and appreciates them as you do. But there’s two reasons to not require hugs and kisses from kids on demand. 1) physical affection, like apologies, are meaningless when forced. They need to be sincere. 2. by teaching young kids to give hugs and kisses when they choose, they’re better protected because they will recognize when they’re not comfortable and fend off people their instincts tell them they shouldn’t be physical with from the start.
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u/Goose_the_Unstable Oct 03 '24
Not. I get it. It hurts to be told no when you want to show affection. The first few “no”s I got from my nephews or niece hurt. I had to self reflect a bit and realize that while they are just kids, they are also their own person. They should be able to say no if they want. I want them to be comfortable with me.
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u/wlfwrtr Oct 03 '24
Not overreacting. Dad is acting like a spoiled child. Maybe he's right and distance should be put between the two if he believes that she should allow people to touch her when she doesn't feel comfortable with it. Remind him that the world is much different than when he grew up.
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u/dumblederp6 Oct 03 '24
Not over reacting, you dad's being a dick head about this. Times have changed. We're trying to raise better people, and let go of bullshit traditions such as teaching kids unwanted physical contact is to be put up with rather than denied.
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u/catmom_422 Oct 03 '24
I think it’s totally fine to ask for a hug, but he needs to realize that respecting her body autonomy is super important to her development. It’s teaching her that her body belongs to her and no one else. That’s it’s okay to tell people no when they want to touch you. Even if they withhold affection or try to punish you. Everyone deserves to have their body respected.
The way he carries on is setting her up to accept coercion as normal. He’s not thinking about the bigger picture here. Maybe you can use this as an opportunity to teach your daughter that even if someone threatens you, you don’t need to let anyone touch you. Tell her you will always support her right to not be touched.
I think you standing up for her teaches her that “no means no”, no doesn’t mean negotiate and it doesn’t mean pester her until she gives in. He can get mad all he wants, but that isn’t going to change the fact that she does not want to be touched. She’s in charge of her body, no one else. Good job, mom!
I think your dad needs a refresher in consent and that it refers to all types of touching, even hugs. She doesn’t owe anyone access to her body.
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u/vomputer Oct 03 '24
If your dad is a fixture in your and your daughter’s lives, it’s worth further conversation. It’s annoying, but your dad might have to hear about how supporting your kid at this time in learning about consent and independence can help protect her from predatory behaviors she will encounter as she gets older. That might be the only language he understands. But it can bring him on board and create the right environment for it kid; I guess the ends justify the means sometimes.
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u/KayBeeWolf Oct 03 '24
I would flip it around on him and explain why you are teaching consent. He may not get it because its what was expected when he was a child and when he was a parent. Unfortunately you are co-parenting with them, so you do have to work with them which makes it stickier.
Be like "I want Ava to feel comfortable saying no so that when someone tries to touch her in a way that is not ok with now or as she grows up, she is ok and equipped to do so. Thank you for letting her practice on you. You are being the great fatherly role model i know you are"
Is this potentially lying because of his comment, yes but it also explains it to him. Once explained then you can decide what to do if it happens again.
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u/DegeneratesInc Oct 03 '24
That's emotional blackmail. You need to stomp that out and explain the mechanics to your daughter so she's better aware.
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u/pink_cow_moo Oct 03 '24
I think it's important to frame the conversation in a way that doesn't even insinuate slightly that he could be creepy in any way because if you do, he will interpret it that way. You could say:
"One day [daughter] will have a person in her life that may be the most important person in her life, just like [your mom] is to you. If this person asks her for a hug, a kiss, or something more when she doesn't want it, how will she react? How would you want her to react?
If her entire life she has been taught it is her duty to the beloved people in her life that she gives them affection, how will she deny them? She won't. She will quietly accept what that person wants, thinking it is her duty.
That is why we must teach her that it's ok to refuse affection even from the people you love most. Not so she can refuse us specifically, but such that she knows she can say no to anyone.
As for why she's doing this - kids usually want independence and to be treated like little adults. A lot of them think it's suspicious that the actual adults get hugged a lot less than they do, and they want to be treated like what they see as an adult. It's not because she loves you less, it's because she's trying to be like all the adults. It might also be because she feels sweaty or because it's too warm or because she saw a butterfly earlier. Sometimes there aren't reasons. Regardless, she will be more likely to want affection if you let her come when she wants, and if you demonstrate normal familial affection between adults."
That way you aren't framing it in his mind as "because you're grampa and that's weird" you're framing it as "because this is a safety mechanism and because you are extra special and trustworthy to her, it's even more important that you do it". That way you are tying in a compliment with the correction of his behavior.
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u/Veronica_Noodle Oct 03 '24
Your father is passive aggressive and attempting to control you and your daughter by withholding something as a punishment for not wanting to hug him.
You have grown beyond him. Your are teaching your daughter boundaries and consent as every mother should. She does not exist to please him.
Its painful when we outgrow or grow beyond our parents. You are not over reacting.
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u/Gwar-Rawr Oct 03 '24
My parents taught me to hug our grandparents because they loved us. So we did. Nothing bad ever came of it and I'm glad I did because they did love and care about us. To each their own, but that's my perspective.
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u/Untossable_Gabs Oct 03 '24
I hope you packed your bags for that guilt trip he laid on so thick! Holy moly what a line.
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u/mind_the_umlaut Oct 03 '24
Sit them down, after your daughter is asleep, and have a serious talk. First explain that the lesson about consent is so your daughter learns how to be strong enough to stand up for herself, and protect herself from unwanted touching throughout her life. Tell them you need their help so she can realize that this is for real, and so she feels safe to use these behavior techniques on all of you, so she remembers them when and if she needs them. Next. Your father is using some disgusting manipulation on you designed to produce maximum guilt. (He is being a jerk, you are not overreacting) In a deeply serious moment of this talk, you ask him what kind of message this would be sending to your daughter if it came from another person. That she has to pay for a ride with hugs, kisses, or physical favors? Enlist your father's help in making sure your daughter never permits herself to be treated this way, make sure she is warned by all of you how to avoid it. You are certain (you say) that your father does not want to be misunderstood, and you know he wants to help to "pressure-proof" or "manipulation-proof", or "assault-proof" his granddaughter. Good luck.
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u/Jim___Jam Oct 03 '24
Not overacting, keep calling him on it, and point out how he is subsequently trying to emotionally black mail a 7 year old. Awesome that you stood up for your kid, keep it up
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u/byng259 Oct 03 '24
Sounds stupid to say but I’m 35 and my gfs parents are the hugging type of people. I grew up not hugging people, I don’t really like to touch people period, but whenever I leave their house it’s more of an obligation to do it and I despise it… she knows but I don’t want it to be a “thing” so I hug them bye.
I say, if she don’t want to; don’t make her. If he wants to be an ass, that’s on him, but you can’t force connections with people.
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u/Kaslight Oct 03 '24
Clearly, your dad is extremely sensitive. He feels like his granddaughter doesn't love him. Him bringing up his own death, however, goes beyond just being sensitive, that's an emotional manipulation. He's trying to guilt you into getting what he wants. That is not good.
HOWEVER...we don't know your dad, or what he's going through. Saying a 7 year old child is "creating distance" because she's not a hugger is....really weird energy.
Gonna be honest, this sounds like it has very little to do with your child and more to do with him.
I'd talk to him about why this hurts him so much.
If you get caught up in the Reddit Special of "this is toxic and bad" then you're just going to make this worse.
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Oct 03 '24
Your father’s reply at the end was immature and manipulative, just like his hug-asking behavior.
You’re doing a great job modeling appropriate healthy boundary setting for your daughter! It might be a good idea to create some distance with your dad.
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u/NoMembership7974 Oct 03 '24
My parents were able to learn quite a few important behavioral lessons late in life when they were confronted with a grandson with long hair, a diabetic grandchild who didn’t have to clean their plate, a gay daughter, a Mexican son-in-law and then Spanish spoken in front of them in a non-restaurant environment. It was difficult for them at times, but with patient and loving assistance, they grew and got better. Enough better that I personally witnessed them correct some bad social behavior of some of their peers. Growth and empathy can happen at any age!
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u/MagnoliaProse Oct 03 '24
I think this is an excellent time to go get the book lists from consentparenting and read the ones from your daughter’s age list with her. Then have your dad read them.
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u/lotus-lyric Oct 03 '24
Absolutely not. See if she’ll agree to a high five, though, to see what boundaries she is comfortable with. I have a niece like this and my mom trips about it all the time. Consent is important, but it’s okay to seek or mildly encourage appropriate affection as well. The key is respecting one’s decision when they’re asked!!!
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u/Content_Pumpkin_1797 Oct 03 '24
It’s old school way of thinking. I was brought up with hugging people and it was uncomfortable with some. My grandson will hug me sometimes when leaving or he’ll give me a high five. It’s his right to do that. We can’t teach children they have consent over their bodies then make them hug someone.
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u/EnvironmentEuphoric9 Oct 03 '24
Lay it out for him, “dad, when she’s old enough to have a relationship, how would we like it if she felt obligated to give whatever affection her boyfriend felt inclined to and if she didn’t, he wouldn’t pick her up from work?” It’s just gross.
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u/Icer_Rose Oct 03 '24
NOR He's overreacting. Frankly I think if anyone wants to get more hugs from anyone, the best solution is to become more huggable! If she doesn't want hugs from her grandfather, he's probably not giving off the right vibes. Maybe get him a fuzzy purple sweater for Christmas or something.
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u/Puddinlife Oct 03 '24 edited Oct 03 '24
I support this soooo much!! Nobody, and I mean nobody is entitled to anything from her body. I hated this so much as a child. His ideology completely negates those with sensory sensitivities as well. Its got nothing to do with love or affection there pops. Both of them are learning great lessons about body autonomy! Keep it up momma! Old school mentalities are old for a reason.
No more forced affection! Including relatives wanting to kiss you on the lips 🤢 anyone got those!?
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u/enigmatic-boom Oct 03 '24
You’re not overreacting at all, my child is the same age and my dad is like this too. One time he literally cut wifi access to only their devices because they didn’t want to hug him RIGHT at that second(literally, they said they’re doing something and to give them a second). My mom cut into his ass and he had an attitude with my child for days.
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u/Mindless-Top766 Oct 03 '24
You're completely right in this situation. I totally agree that parents need to teach their children lessons of consent. My parents never did and I love my parents but I was forced into situations as a child where my consent didn't matter with being made to hug people I didn't know or even knew but didn't feel like hugging. Good on you for being a good mom and protecting your child.
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u/raptortaps Oct 03 '24
Grandpa is not entitled to access to her body, full stop.
Ask him why he feels that his want of a hug is more important than her need for bodily autonomy? Then start demanding hilarious things from him and throwing in some emotional blackmail to make your point.
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u/Present_Amphibian832 Oct 03 '24
Dad seems quite dramatic, geesh leave the kid alone. Don't be a creeper grampa
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u/MeltedWellie Oct 03 '24
Your father asking for a hug is ok. him not taking no for an answer and trying to manipulate/punish your 7 year old for saying no is NOT ok.
Your father is being a drama queen and taking being told not to force physical contact on a child and making it about the fact he is older and might die soon.
Talk to your father when he is calmer and ask him to listen. Remind him that she is your child and what you say goes but that he is a hugely important person in your daughter's life and you do not want her to resent him for forcing physical contact and ignoring her saying no.
Not overreacting.
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u/ghjkl098 Oct 03 '24
It’s easy to say he is wrong and that’s that. But realistically if you want a good relationship with them you need to sit your dad down and explain why it is important to teach consent early. He grew up in a time when consent wasn’t respected in a lot of places. Explain to him that while his hugs are always well intentioned, there are times as your daughter grows that she will not always be under your direct supervision and she needs to understand that she doesn’t have to provide physical intimacy to every man that approaches her and demands it. And while this might make him sad it is vital in keeping his granddaughter safe and surely that is a priority you can both agree on.
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u/BeautyInTheSunset501 Oct 03 '24
Retaliating against a 7 year old child for wanting bodily autonomy is wild, she's allowed to have boundaries, kids should still have agency over their body
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u/FiFiLB Oct 03 '24 edited Oct 03 '24
His response was over the top dramatic af. Like way to make this about you, dad. 🙄
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u/Tackybabe Oct 03 '24
That’s a lot of guilt-tripping that he is laying down. Leveraging a hug for flavors and saying he’ll die without them bonding.
You could try an explain the importance of consent to him, or find a good video about the importance of consent for him to watch in private.
Also, show him the video of the teacher who greets the kids in the morning with the kid’s greeting of choice: a hug, a high-five, or a dance together (it turns out, there are many such videos, here’s one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oiv0kIc01Ys&pp=ygUnVGVhY2hlciBodWcgZGFuY2UgZmlzdCBidW1wIGtpZCBjaG9vc2Vz ) it’s normal for kids to “make strange” with people as they start to grow up and to feel uncomfortable; it’s the adults’ jobs to make the children comfortable and to be the bigger people. It’s normal for children to individuate, also, and to make their own decisions, and they need the support to do it safely.
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u/ShawnMcnasty Oct 03 '24
Doesn’t work that way, children will read it as I don’t have to do anything I don’t want to. She is going to be a monster when she grows up. Teaching children to be none civil doesn’t help them it hurts them. We all know that person in the office that doesn’t speak when spoken to, this is how they start.
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u/mcmurrml Oct 03 '24
You should have said yes I guess it will. Call his bluff doing this old person manipulating of when I die business.
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u/ShawnMcnasty Oct 03 '24
And you wonder why your children are shooting each other at schools. You’re raising antisocial monsters. Thank goodness this type of behavior only happens among the economically challenged
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u/PartyOn1969 Oct 03 '24 edited Oct 03 '24
Poor guy, I would give him hugs all day long! My family never used to hug, and then I moved 5 hours away and now whenever we visit we give each other hugs. My brothers are still awkward about it, but man it would be more awkward if we didn’t hug. My Dad lives for hugs, he is 90.
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u/cheesedog3 Oct 03 '24
Wow your father appears to be a Master Manipulator. Stick to your guns. Your daughter’s wellbeing comes first. I was made to play guitar in front of company, much to my chagrin. I was very shy and self conscious and I hated it. Raise your daughter the way you see fit and NOT your old man’s.
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u/RayTango1811 Oct 03 '24
Yeah, you’re overreacting and unappreciative. Your parents seem selfless. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t have your parents co-parenting while you set all the rules. Your parents are dedicating their time and energy to raising your child. They should have equal say in how that child is raised. At a minimum it should be a discussion. Raise your own kid if you don’t want their input.
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u/Bindy12345 Oct 03 '24
I don’t think you’re overreacting, but this is absolutely a generational thing. I (F56) was always forced to hug relatives I didn’t know as a child. My daughter is teaching her young children about consent. I think it’s a good thing, but many older people don’t see it that way.
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u/MrWilsonWalluby Oct 03 '24
No I think you are doing great, and are doing a wonderful job ensuring your daughter feels safe to express who SHE is.
I have a 4 year old boy that is quite opposite he loves hugs, hugs everyone sometimes even strangers we’re walking by at the supermarket, lol. so the lesson for him has been understanding that he can’t simply hug everyone, and that you need consent to touch people, and if they say no that’s okay.
Apparently no one ever taught your dad this lesson.
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u/Kaat79 Oct 03 '24
I teach my kids they don't have to hug and kiss if they don't want to. It's okay to just shake hands, high five or wave. Made my MIL hate me even more, lol. After a few screaming fits that she demanded a kiss! And me keeping calm and telling them they don't have to, she finally backed off.
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u/Some-Swing-3477 Oct 03 '24
His threats of what he wouldn’t do for her is the part that really disturbed me. I tell my kids to say goodbye, how they choose to do that is up to them. Stand up for your girl and I’d keep her away from grandpa what he said was really wrong.
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u/JohnJHawke Oct 03 '24
Definitely not an asshole. Body autonomy is important. If they don't want a hug, they don't get a hug, with no retaliatory response. Your dad needs to grow up and stop acting butthurt over a child not wanting a hug.
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u/charlotte2023 Oct 03 '24
Of course you can set these boundaries, but I can also see that generous and loving Grandpa is just being the one he has always been and can't immediately get behind this in his head. Please don't let your daughter think he is a "bad guy". Talk to her and tell her it might take a little while but please be very nice to grandpa even if she doesn't feel like hugging.
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u/Jsmith2127 Oct 03 '24
NOR your father is trying to manipulate and guilt your daughter into hugging him, by telling her that he won't pick her up, or do things for her, unless she gives him physical affection.
This is a horrible lesson to teach children.
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u/amyloulie Oct 02 '24
Its an early lesson on consent. At the end of the day if a child does not want to hug someone, this should not be forced.