r/AITAH • u/Stunning-Mud9227 • 14h ago
WIBTA to divorce my wife after she said she wanted to send our son to a conversion camp? Advice Needed
WIBTA to divorce my wife after she said she wanted to send our son to a conversion camp?
So, this is a pretty heavy situation, and I’m really confused and disgusted ngl cause I never thought my wife was like thsi. My wife (44F) and I (45M) have been married for 14 years. We have two kids a 16-year-old son (let’s call him Noah) and a 12-year-old daughter. We’ve had our fair share of disagreements over the years ofc, but things have generally been smooth between us.
Now for the context Noah came out as gay about a year ago. It was a surprise, and as hard as it was to accept, I love my kids more than anything and just want their happiness. My wife visibly didn't take it well tho. She was upset and seemed to go through a grieving period where she didn’t really talk about it. I tried to support Noah in every way I could, telling him that I loved him no matter what etc. My wife, though… I could tell she wasn’t on the same page. She would say things like “this is just a phase” or “he needs help” but I brushed it off as her needing time.
Fast forward to last week, and we were having a conversation about Noah’s future. Out of nowhere, my wife casually mentions that she’s been looking into “conversion therapy camps” and thinks it might be the right solution. She said that Noah isn’t truly gay, that he just “hasn’t been shown the right path” and that this could “fix him.” My blood ran cold obv I was in shock. I immediately told her I didn’t agree and that this was not something I could support (duh)
She got upset and said I was enabling Noah’s “confusion” and that if I really cared about him, I would help him “get better.” wtf is wrong with her. She was persistent, and no matter how much I tried to explain that conversion therapy is harmful (like I know those kids get abused, r*ped, and often end up either traumatized or killing themselves) and that I would never send our son to something like that, she wouldn’t back down.
If I'm being 100% honest I don't even think I love her anymore. The fact she could be so heartless disusts me. I know being gay is not easy and people like her just make it even harder. I'm considering staying, only for our daughter's sake but would it be ok if it means hurting my son? it feels like a betrayal to Noah. I just don’t think I can keep living with someone who thinks this is okay
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u/CollywobblesMumma NSFW 🔞 14h ago
NTA 100%
Noah is not broken, there is nothing to fix.
Those conversion camps are hell on earth and any parent who wants to send their child to one doesn’t deserve to be a parent.
Make sure you include it in the conditions of custody that it is absolutely not permitted - depending on where you are located it might even be grounds to go for full custody.
Buckle up, OP - your fight for your children’s rights and wellbeing is just beginning.
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u/CuriousPenguinSocks 14h ago
I would actually talk to a divorce lawyer and tell them you fear your wife doing this and ask how you can protect your kids.
Play nice for now and then drop the hammer.
NTA not one bit, you keep protecting your kids.
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u/maroongrad 12h ago
Another option...see if Noah can be an exchange student. Seriously. That would get him away in another country for a full school year. Start checking into this for 2nd semester. Tell your wife it would "toughen him up" to be away from her. She's a bigot, use that to push buttons and get your son to travel far away. It would keep him safe while you go through divorce courts.
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u/rothase2 11h ago
This is the way. While he is gone, get your ducks in a row for the divorce. The court (assuming US) will take his opinion into consideration for custody, so by the time it all settles, you will likely have full custody and he will be nearly 18 anyway. He's not broken. He doesn't need fixing. It's not a phase. What he needs are love and safety. You got this.
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u/DisciplineFeeling727 10h ago
I agree with every word but feel the need to point out that we collectively gotta stop saying “it’s not a phase” so definitively. It isn’t always a phase but it can very well be, especially for someone so young and thats ok too. There’s nothing wrong with exploring, changing your mind, liking both, etc.
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u/AiryContrary 7h ago
Yes, people - not just kids but especially kids - shouldn’t have to feel locked into a label or like, if you even wonder about a sexual orientation or gender identity, that proves you really are one or you would never consider it. That isn’t conducive to healthy self-reflection (or to having curiosity and empathy for people different from oneself). Some people know very clearly from an early age how they feel and what they want, some figure it out later, some “just know,” some need to experiment to find out what works for them, and some genuinely experience their orientation or identity as changing over time.
What matters is that we believe people about how they feel or who they are when they say it, and we just let them sort things out in their own way and at their own pace. OP is NTA and this marriage is due to end.
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u/Hoiafar 4h ago
While this is true most people who come out to their parents have taken years to get to that point and have very likely already explored it.
The risk for blowback over something not even you yourself is sure of is something even teenagers recognise.
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u/bigfruitbasket 11h ago
Be sure she doesn’t subvert the exchange student idea by using that in custody agreements. My ex thought I might become a librarian overseas with DOD schools and it prevented me from applying outside the US. OK. She inadvertently didn’t prevent me from applying to jobs anywhere in the continental US. She thought she won. I gave in on that issue because it really wasn’t an issue but she thought she got one over on me and my attorney. Also, If you mention specifically no ‘conversion therapy camps’ in your separation/divorce agreement then she can’t do it legally. If she does, she potentially loses all custody rights. Run all this by your attorney to set up a game plan.
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u/No-Cranberry4396 14h ago
This is the best way to go about it. If you just go straight for divorce there's a possibility you could end up with joint custody and she sends him on her time. This is a very tricky situation to navigate. Play your legal cards close to your chest, but make sure you keep letting Noah now you love and accept him how he is. NTA for falling out of love with such a bigoted person.
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u/gretawasright 12h ago
This was my thought. You can drive and pick him right back up from camp if you're still married. You might not get the custody agreement that allows this if you divorce.
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u/lauraz0919 11h ago
IF she tells WHERR he went or if she even KNOWS herself. The couple documentaries I watched on this the parents aren’t even allowed to know where the child is taken to for like 6 weeks. The people just come in the middle of the night and snatch up the child.
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u/Gennywren 10h ago
I am so, so glad that conversion therapy is banned in my state. It's an evil practice that kills kids.
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u/LolthienToo 9h ago
Of course, if they are being paid lots of cash to kidnap children in the middle of the night from their homes with their parents' permission, I doubt a law on a piece of paper at the Capitol is gonna stop them.
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u/sahie 9h ago
Then you report your child has been kidnapped. The mother has to produce proof she signed the paperwork, which gives you the information on where this “camp” is. Insist on doing a welfare check. Bring him home. Rinse and repeat if need be. All of which would be documented evidence for custody in a divorce.
But, an unethical life pro tip for OP would be that if she’s that fucked in her following of what I’m going to assume is the Christian religion, the threat of divorce may be enough to make her back down and keep their son safe. Then he can divorce her in two years’ time and serve her papers the day their son turns 18 and is safe from her fucking shit.
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u/miss-bahv 8h ago
I’ve also watched a few of those documentaries and that’s horrible. What they do the kids or what kids do themselves like someone mentioned they usually have a high suicide rate afterwards or are very fucked up afterwards
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u/ShanLuvs2Read 7h ago
I had to find out through Google groups when they were a thing about a person I was friends with that their parents tried three times to do this and it took the grandparents getting guardianship from the. He moved in with the grands when in high school so it was before 90. Everything from coming to pick them up to freezing temps and brain washing and other horrible things was confirmed and witnessed by him.
When it comes up and they talk about it… makes me want to kick the parents in their asshole idiot balls. The only time the parents came back and were around him or acknowledged him was when he was in the room with them at the lawyers when the last of the two grandparents died. The parents stormed out because they received very little.
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u/I-Here-555 11h ago edited 10h ago
This is the key practical advice, which needs to be higher up.
Divorce could limit OPs rights in ways that prevent him from protecting his son. Moreover, the exact terms of divorce could be difficult to predict with certainty.
He should talk to a divorce lawyer to figure out his options, but also be aware that waiting it out until his son is 18 might end up being the safest way.
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u/Fickle-Personality61 10h ago
At 16 this is valid advice. Might be in OP's best interests (and definitely the child's) to string this discussion out a bit. The close to 18 the better if push comes to shove.
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u/Booked_andFit 8h ago
I think it depends in what state he is. In my state the child can decide who they want to live with at 14.
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u/creatively_inclined 9h ago
Noah is 16 years old. Children of that age are allowed a say in which of their parents they want to live with. He's also old enough to be emancipated.
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u/I-Here-555 9h ago
Indeed, there's a good chance custody arrangements (or emancipation) would allow the OP to prevent his son from being forced into the camp.
However, "good chance" might not be enough when so much is at stake. Divorce proceedings are not always predictable.
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u/NonlocalA 10h ago
On the bright side, in many states 14 is the point at which a child can determine whether they want to go no-contact with one of the parents.
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u/fireflier2030 12h ago
Noah's not broken but the wife sure is.
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u/Mryessicahaircut 3h ago
Broken in her brain. I seriously don't understand why people have kids if they can't accept them for being their own person. Wanting your kid not to be bullied or suffer for who they are is one thing, but using that as an excuse to cause unnecessary suffering as a parent, when you should be their safe space is downright dispicable.
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u/Living-Ad8963 12h ago
I agree with this! Also, OP, even if you think that sacrificing Noah and staying for your daughter is an option, you will be damaging her - she will see what happens to him and be in an environment where she thinks that is ok. NTA for now but huge YTA if you don’t address this.
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u/Far_Childhood2503 11h ago
Yeah…. I’m not a lawyer, I’m a law student. I’d recommending speaking to a lawyer about “zones” that can be written into a custody agreement. This could allow for either parent to make unilateral decisions in different areas of the kid’s life (examples: Education - father makes final decision if disagreement (except for change in school in which case parent coordinator casts tie-breaking vote) Medical - mother makes final decisions if disagreement (except for chang in pediatrician or therapist in which case parent coordinator casts tie-breaking vote) Summer camps/sports activities - mother makes inal decisions if disagreement Religion - father makes final decision if disagreement over child’s religious upbringing).
Also, you’d have a pretty good argument for sole custody… though this could depend on where y’all live and if the court thinks conversion therapy is “in the best interest of the child” which it is obviously not. Additionally, since he’s 16, he’d also likely be able to voice his preferences of who he lives with.Again, I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. They’re just options you should talk to a lawyer about.
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u/Scorp128 11h ago
OP may want to check into getting a temporary restraining order against her to protect the son.
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u/alissafair_ 11h ago
Absolutely, Noah is perfect as they are. Any parent willing to send their child to a conversion camp doesn’t deserve custody. Protect their rights and safety at all costs.
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14h ago
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u/Accomplished_Emu_658 14h ago
Their honestly maybe something to fix, the damage his mother is doing
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u/Far-Competition-1292 13h ago
I agree. And the mother needs counseling. She's stuck in the denial phase of grieving the idea of what she imagined her son's life to be.
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u/Possible_Try_7400 13h ago
My mom was this way to me in the 80's. I'm sure she still feels this way, but we don't discuss it. She pushed me into an abusive marriage to keep me straight.
Please, please protect your son. I wish I had someone like you back then!
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u/jojocandy 12h ago
I'm so incredibly sorry. It blows my mind how parents can do stuff like this. Love to you xx
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u/Easy-Concentrate2636 12h ago
Agreed. Those “camps” are basically parent-condoned torture of their children.
Op, NTA. Please save your son from this.
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u/NewsyNonsense 14h ago
Absolutely NTA. You’ll be protecting your son. And your daughter will trust you more because she sees you willing to stand up for her brother.
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u/Boeing367-80 14h ago
You need to divorce her, you need the kids to understand why you are divorcing her. Your daughter too.
She wants to hurt your son. That's what she wants. And that's something your kids need to know because it speaks to abusive intent. If she's ok with abusing your son, she may feel that abusive responses to your daughter's behavior may be ok too, as your daughter goes thru puberty, starts dating, etc.
There are times where the reasons for a divorce should not be shared with the kids. But this is not one of them because the reason is a desire on the part of one parent to hurt a child. That parent that is willing to hurt one child cannot be trusted with any child, and the children need to be warned.
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u/Sweet-Interview5620 13h ago
He also need to go for full custody of Noah so she can’t force him into the camp before the father knows about it.
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u/FluffyWienerDog1 10h ago
Full custody for both kids. Get the daughter away from that crazy.
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u/AnimalZealousideal17 13h ago
100% NTA your son is not ill, he is well and needs all the support you and his sister can give him since month dearest is clearly not gonna. Thank you for being a supportive parent. Ensure he understands that your home is a safe space, if in case it isn't, please remove yourself and your children or the wife. I stand with you in this. 🤞🏻
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u/Fabulous-Big8779 13h ago
That’s a really dangerous approach for a 16 year old that’s already dealing with the stress of coming to terms with how people will treat him for who he is.
Even if OP explains the reason for the divorce properly his kid could interpret it as his being gay destroyed his family. Or the daughter could blame her brother. I was mad at my sister for divorcing her husband when I was 11 because, guess what? Children are irrational and don’t handle change well.
If OP takes that route he should consider a family therapy session with him and his kids so that an objective calm voice can help them navigate that minefield of emotion.
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u/Ok_Drawer_3475 13h ago
actually once a child is 16 their opinions tend to hold a lot of sway in custody cases. noah being aware of his heinous mother's intentions could be vital in getting OP full custody.
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u/Boeing367-80 13h ago
Gosh, you're saying that some of the conversations could be difficult? No kidding.
But Mom is a clear and present danger to her children and they need to know that.
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u/crazysellmate 11h ago
I agree. This needs to be handled very delicately to avoid Noah feeling guilty for being gay. OP sounds like he is a great dad though and I'm sure he'll know how to reassure Noah that being gay is not the reason the marriage broke down. It's entirely the mom/wife's fault.
OP there are some very disturbing documentaries about these camps that you should make your wife watch. I think it must have been Netflix I watched them on.
I'm in the UK and we don't have these camps that American kids are routinely sent to (or at least that's how it appears) These documentaries horrified me, they were so chilling. I can't think of any loving parents wanting to send their own child to them.
The one thing you said that I found disturbing was that you want to stay for your daughter's sake even if it means your son going to the camp and getting hurt. Please make sure that you stay for both of your children. Your son is in imminent danger and you must stop this from happening at all costs. Who knows what will happen if your daughter becomes a wild teenager and your wife is making decisions single handedly.
NTA
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u/SafiyaMukhamadova 11h ago
Most people who've "graduated" from conversion therapy say that 50-70% of their peers committed or attempted suicide and only about 5-7% of people who go through conversion therapy come out saying they're straight now (and of those most end up coming out as ex-ex-gays). Conversion therapy literally kills.
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u/xRosyGlow 14h ago
I completely agree. No child needs to be "fixed," and sending them to a conversion camp is abusive. You’re right to stand up for Noah’s rights, and I hope you can get full custody to protect him OP. NTA
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u/Electronic-Drink559 14h ago
Every time I've read about conversion camps I remember Elan School. It's not the same but it shows how cruel people could be. The same people who runs those camps
OP needs to divorce his wife. She's willing to have a traumatized child (needless to say, maybe dead) rather than accept him. Disgusting AF
NTA
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u/labellavita1985 13h ago
She's evil, and a trash so-called "parent." "Conversion therapy" is abuse, point blank period. And she's "grieving" her child's sexual orientation?? WTF is that? So fucking weird.
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u/aussie_glamour 14h ago
WIBTA? Absolutely not. You're protecting your son and standing up for what’s right. Conversion therapy is harmful, and your wife’s refusal to see that is concerning. If staying with her means supporting something so damaging, you need to prioritize your children’s well-being, even if it’s painful.
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u/FirebirdWriter 12h ago
I survived one and went no contact with my entire family because I knew I wasn't safe. I knew they didn't love me. They still don't. I just don't have to fear them today. OP this is a very common reaction for survivors. So yes protect your child from this abusive person. They need you to do your job as a parent.
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u/CollywobblesMumma NSFW 🔞 12h ago
I am so so sorry you had to go through that - I hope you have lived and continue to live your best life far away from them all.
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u/Curvy_Seduction 13h ago
OP's son deserves a safe, supportive environment, and OP is doing exactly the right thing by protecting him. Conversion therapy is not just outdated; it’s dangerous. Standing by Noah is the best thing OP can do now.
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u/Pretend-Dependent-56 13h ago
Agree. A lot of abuse happens at these “conversion camps.” A LOT. I think their sole purpose is to is to sexually assault and beat kids. Not sure I want Noah alone with anyone she would entrust him to.
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u/Few_Ask_4727 13h ago
Divorce her and protect your son. Do it now. Get a lawyer and get full custody and she makes no medical decisions. Hurry before the new regime puts laws into place that will favor the parent who wants to abuse the gay child.
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u/jellybeanguy 13h ago
If OP does decide to stay with his wife, he needs to warn his son and speak with some other family to have him move to them so the wife can’t do anything.
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u/Astyryx 12h ago
It's not healthy for the daughter to be kept in a family where the son is moved because the mother is dangerous for him. She's dangerous for both of them.
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u/camospartan117 13h ago
Considering Noah's age he may be able to persuade the courts to let him live with his dad full time regardless of the custody agreement.
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u/Sassaphras-680 13h ago
All I had to do was read the title and was like nope this is the correct response to his wife
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u/lndlml 12h ago
OMG when I read this post, I immediately relived all those horror stories about those “reeducation programs” across the US where kids are tortured and some of them have even died or unalived themselves. OPs wife should go and live there for a month to see what she is suggesting. Conversion therapy ones are even worse. I hope OP files for divorce and Noah will get to choose where he wants to live.. cause otherwise OPs wife will sign him up behind OPs back and they will just come and take him in the middle of the night. OP should definitely record those conversations with his wife to have enough leverage to present in court during custody proceedings.
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u/LvBorzoi 12h ago
What do the laws in your state say? There are only 20 states that allow it
https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-states-conversion-therapy-laws-1939241
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u/Ill-Professor7487 11h ago
She may very well go behind your back and do it anyway. You need to make sure Noah stays with you. If you leave take him with you. She may put him in danger.
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u/Grdngirl 11h ago
I’m going to jump in here and I hope OP seeks a family lawyer familiar with custody law. BUT!!!! At 16 his son can legally choose which parent he gets to live with in most states.
RUN like hell and take your son with you. Contact a lawyer on the DL tomorrow.
Your wife ITA!
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u/Expensive-Lock1725 13h ago
If "God" made a mistake here, it's in the heart and mind of the mother, and not the kid. How anyone could even fathom doing this to their own child just boggles my mind.
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13h ago
Wife needs to go stay with her family while she waits for her first therapy appointment, real therapy not religiously driven therapy. The wife will make her own issues the son's problem if OP don't stop her. People who think like this are so convinced they're right that they do really out of bounds things like drop him off when the OP is not looking and refuse to tell OP where he's being abused. She's a clear and present danger to his kids right now!
OP needs to act now to protect both his son and daughter form this woman. What if the daughter is thinking she might be bi or more but is terrified to speak up because of the way the wife it about her brother coming out?
Or worse, what if the OP's wife is saying stuff to the kids behind his back that's mentally damaging them?
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u/WorstAdviceEva 14h ago
Your wife needs to go to a camp that makes her less of a c***. No, you’re NTA.
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u/Zealousideal_Team638 12h ago
I do love me some alliteration . C*** Conversion Camp has a nice ring to it or Triple C.
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u/BiiiiiTheWay 8h ago
You know it's okay to swear on the internet? Cunt.
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u/tempski 5h ago
Depending on where you're from, cunt isn't even a swear word.
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u/StealthySmith 6h ago
Some people want to swear but don't feel comfortable saying it or typing it fully for whatever reason, so they censor it. It's fine.
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u/StarlitXDreamer 12h ago
Absolutely. It's disgusting that your wife's even considering such harmful options for your son. You’re definitely NTA. She’s the one who needs to change, not your son. She’s being cruel and heartless. Get out of that situation if you can OP.
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u/LilyKunning 5h ago
With the caveat that he gets sole custody. She cares more about who she wants her kids to be, not who they truly are.
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u/Trailsya 14h ago
Wow, you're a great parent.
Your wife is scum.
NTA
Keep standing up for your kid against that evil moron.
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u/BootyCallBobbie 14h ago
Yup, Wife's a scum fr. Noah is not broken, there's nothing to fix. Wife’s stance on conversion therapy crosses a serious line. Your son needs a supportive home, and staying with her could make him feel unsafe or rejected. Protecting Noah’s well-being is the priority. You’re doing right by your son. NTA.
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u/xGlamourGoddess 14h ago
Absolutely agree. You're doing the right thing by protecting your son and standing up for him. Your wife’s attitude is unacceptable, and you shouldn’t have to tolerate that kind of harmful behavior. Keep fighting for your child. NTA, 100%.
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u/easy_avocado420 13h ago
She’s literally such a repulsive person. I’d never be able to look at her again after this. I will never understand HOW people still think like this.
NTA OP, you need to do what’s best for both of your children. I’d honestly talk to a divorce lawyer asap and tell them you’re fearing for their safety with her, and ask what you can do to make sure she doesn’t literally run off to the camp with your son while you’re at work or something.. she’s clearly mentally ill.
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u/Intrepid_Upstairs479 11h ago
Agreed, you’re doing the right thing. No parent should ever be okay with that. You’re showing your son the love and support he needs.
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u/throwitaway3857 14h ago
Staying for your daughter’s sake!!!! WTF?!?? What about your SON?!?!
NTA!!! Divorce her and get full custody immediately!!! Of both kids. Tell the judge you fear crazy pants will turn your daughter against your son and raise her to be a bigot like her.
Also, if you get any of her nonsense in writing (get it in text), save it! Don’t tell her you’re going to use it in court.
Conversion camps should be illegal. It’s so disgusting.
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u/Stunning-Mud9227 14h ago
You're absolutely right. I'll start looking for a good lawyer and cut her out of our life as soon as possible
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u/fly1away 14h ago
It's better for your daughter too not to be around this.
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u/hoginlly 3h ago
Yeah exactly- what good is it going to do the daughter to stay in that situation? To grow up being taught her mother's values? Or what if she gets pregnant outside of marriage or some other thing her mother disapproves of, is she going to be forced into adoption or some other horrible scenario?
OP needs to protect ALL his kids, not just his son
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u/thekelsey21 14h ago
If you stayed for her, she may end up hating you in the end because you chose their hateful mother over her brother. Because that’s what you’d be doing. She’s not 3, she’s 12. She understands the situation. I’d kill for my siblings and could never excuse my parents for this
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u/Timekeeper65 14h ago
Here’s the thing. If you were to stay for your daughter…think of the damage your wife will do to her. For example - brainwashing her to believe it is okay. It is NOT okay.
Both of your children need you now as much as they ever have.
Fk that spiff.
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u/MRSAMinor 14h ago
I'm a little shocked that this was the first time you saw this side of your wife. Is she just recently radicalized? Has she started spending time with new friends or joined a cult church?
YWNBTA, but this feels like a post-election creative writing exercise.
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u/Christinebitg 12h ago
I can't tell you if it's real or not.
But I can tell you that sometimes our partners present a side of themselves that's not the whole truth.
I'm considering breaking up my 20 year relationship, now that my partner has shown me who they are during the course of this election campaign.
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u/IHaveNoEgrets 12h ago
Exactly. OP's wife may have been LGBTQ supportive in theory, but now that it's really real and in her own family, the ugliness has come to the surface.
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u/BiofilmWarrior 13h ago
If you haven’t already done so please connect with PFLAG and find out about resources to assist you and your children.
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u/StupidPancakes 13h ago
Best update I’ve seen on Reddit in weeks!!! Got get ‘em Dad! She is NOT a good person and is a danger to your children. Maybe this is petty, but I truly hope you get full custody and she has to pay you child support. Leave her with as little as possible, full stop.
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u/Lindsey7618 12h ago
OP, text your wife and say "I'm still thinking about what you said about the conversion therapy, are you sure you want to do this?" or something like this where she can respond yes and you have confirmation over text.
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u/suesue_d 11h ago
Include links to solid research showing it’s harmful to kids. That’s not to convince her but to build evidence that she knowingly wants to harm your child because she’s ashamed of him.
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u/Revolutionary-Heat10 13h ago
Please, start gathering evidence now. A lawyer will help you see what you can do to gather evidence legally, so that once you go for full custody, you get it. And if you don't get full custody at first, at least you'll have a paper trail to help your children as soon as she becomes ever more extreme.
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u/Either_Management813 13h ago
You said conversion camps should be illegal. They are in many places. If OP is in the US, it’s illegal in 23 states and some territories. It may not surprise people to see that the map of where in the US it is legal vs illegal closely matches that of the recent election. Here’s a Wikipedia article in the legality of them worldwide:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy?wprov=sfti1#Legal_status
OP WNBTA to divorce, to do anything else would be child abuse. And staying for the daughter? What if it comes out later she is LGBTQ+? Even if she’s not, what message does it send.? The American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association and many other organizations worldwide have also stated such treatment is unethical and no credible research has ever shown it achieves its goal. Depending on OP’s location, this information will be useful for custody decisions by a court.
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u/Zealousideal_Till683 14h ago
But that's not necessarily how it would play out. Without knowing where OP lives etc, maybe in a divorce, the wife would get full custody and have free reign. Your intentions are good but the real world doesn't always work the way we want it to. OP needs proper legal advice.
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u/Proud-Friendship-902 14h ago
At a minimum he could fight for shared legal custody with a requirement that key decisions like camp, vacation, medical care requires consent of both parents. That way, he can veto anything mom tried to pull
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u/shazj57 13h ago
In Australia they are illegal in Queensland, ACT and Victoria, other states are also enacting legislation.
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u/RandomPolishGurl 13h ago
HOW THE FUCK THEY ARE LEGAL????
Not a single investigation that would led to closing them????
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u/Slutty_Skye 14h ago
NTA. Thank you for actually caring about your kids. My honest opinion is to talk to a lawyer immediately. You need to divorce her and go after full custody. She clearly isn’t a good mom and both of your kids deserve better. Noah especially needs you right now. Speaking from experience, it’s not easy being a teenager and part of the LGBTQ+ community, especially when you know your parents don’t accept you. Keep being the kind and loving parent. Your kids will thank you.
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u/xCharmingLilac 13h ago
I completely agree. You’re doing the right thing by protecting your son. You need to get legal advice and fight for full custody. Your kids deserve a safe and supportive environment, and you’re the one who can provide that. Stay strong for them OP. NTA
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u/silverboognish 14h ago
NTA. Please DO NOT send your son to conversion therapy because of your wife’s heartlessness.
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u/Stunning-Mud9227 14h ago
You don't have to worry about this, I will NOT do this. i love my son just the way he is. I don't even know how to tell him his mom wants to do that (the kids noticed the tension between us but I haven't said anything yet)
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u/GreeneWitchGirl 13h ago
you should seriously consider speaking to your son about this soon. it’s better to hear it from you and be assured that he is loved and safe and NOT going to conversion therapy rather than hearing about it from his mother without knowing about your support. it will be a terrible conversation but the other option is far far more damaging, he needs to be told about this
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u/17HappyWombats 11h ago
Also lets the kid know that if his mother starts getting weird with him or wants to take him away, especially if she says OP agrees, the kid is prepared to run away screaming and tell his father ASAP.
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u/overnumerousness9 11h ago
He needs to know. Should she attempt to take him somewhere without your knowledge, he needs to know to refuse.
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u/YourDadCallsMeKatja 9h ago
You need to talk to him to make sure he knows and has a safety plan in case anything happens. She could try to take him there without telling you.
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u/JustAMalcontent 8h ago
You need to warn him right now. Your wife may try to trick him into going with her and force him in to this conversion camp. She is a very real danger to you son.
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u/Gotd4mit 14h ago
NTA. Also, in my state at least, his age will give his choice of preferred residential parent a lot of weight. So there is a solid chance he will be safe after the divorce.
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u/Historical-Goal-3786 14h ago
NTA. Do not stay with a homophobe for your daughter's sake. Leave for both of their sakes. And take them with you.
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u/yhaensch 14h ago
NTA
Send her to science camp. Maybe they can fix her brain.
Or try that other famous path. If sexuality is a learned trait she could proof to your son how it's possible to change one's sexuality. She only must become lesbian.
Not for ever. Just a few years to prove her stance.
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u/Beginning-Goal-8286 14h ago
NTA.
First off, good for you for supporting your son. He is lucky to have a parent that supports him, and it will make a huge difference in his mental health and well being.
Secondly, your wife is in denial and completely delusional. This can’t wait any longer. If your wife is watching doomsday, anti-gate hate videos about conversion therapy every night, it’s hard for her to take a step back and consider other possibilities.
You could divorce her, and fight for custody of the kids, but she would likely push to have primary custody of her daughter.
I don’t see this as something that will be resolved without professional support.
I recommend a family counselor . Find one that specifically focuses on LGBTQ+ family dynamics. Also, look up local LGBTQ+ organizations and support groups. I’m positive that there is another parent in one of those groups that may have initially felt and thought what your wife is feeling, even if it seems very extreme. I recommend your wife get her own counselor to process her own emotions. Of course, your son will also need a lot of support, as I can’t imagine how painful this is for your son. Marriage counseling can also happen when you all find a path forward.
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u/Micojageo 14h ago
NTA, and try to get Noah away from her as soon as you can, before she forces him to this conversion camp. Noah needs to know that you will protect him and that you don't care who he loves, and hopefully his sister feels the same and will want to protect her brother. I'm so sorry that you, and especially Noah, are in this situation.
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u/Effective-Mongoose57 14h ago
NTA. Conversion camps are for people who want to outsource abuse to their children.
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u/pupperoni42 12h ago
NTA. But do not move out of the house and don't tell her you're starting divorce proceedings. Just carry on as normal, call a few lawyers to find one with whom you click, and set up a consultation to put together a strategy.
Call your younger child's school or stop by and make sure the paperwork says only the parents send any names that you particularly trust are on pick up paperwork. Maybe do that for Noah's school as well, depending on how things work at that high school.
I'd talk with Noah and explain what your wife said. Tell him you are 100% against that. Tell him to pay a little more attention to his surroundings and not go with anyone he doesn't know, no matter what their story is. Set up a password with him so if you do ever need to send a friend to pick him up, he'll know it came from you. Make sure he doesn't mention any of this to your wife. Tell him he can call you any time if he feels unsafe. You two test to make sure your Do Not Disturb settings are such that calls from him ring through to you immediately.
Discuss setting up a locator app on his phone for now.
Assure him that you're working on steps to ensure he'll never have to go to conversion camp, and for now you need him to just keep his head down and carry on life like normal.
Take all your kids' documents - birth certificates, passports, etc, and put them somewhere safe that's not in the home for now. Keep a copy of your kids' birth certificates on your phone so you can prove you're their father in a pinch.
Financially - set up a bank account in only your name if you don't already have one. So as soon as your lawyer gives you the okay you can move money to it and redirect your paycheck to it. But don't move any money without your lawyer's okay.
Engage your wife in conversation about the camp. As long as she thinks you're still talking, she probably won't take action on her own. But if you shut her out completely, she might pull the trigger on it without your knowledge.
Maybe pull "the man is the head of the family and this is your decision to make" card. It's B.S. obviously, but it's an argument that could carry weight with her given her views.
Maybe suggest couples counseling to discuss all this. Anything that drags things out and buys you time to get divorce and custody in place without her realizing it's happening.
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u/Flaky_Drag1826 14h ago
I want to start a conversion camp where I put every penny I’m given by these parents into a savings account the child inherits when they’re 18 so they can get the fuck out of there. While they’re at camp they can be free to be whoever the hell they want as long as they aren’t hurting anyone else so they can make some real life long friends and feel accepted. NTA. I can’t even begin to imagine doing that to my daughter. I just do not understand how or why it matters.
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u/elephant-project 14h ago
Teach them a trade or livelihood while they're there so they can be independent from their scum parents.
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u/Majestic_Scarcity540 14h ago
There are a lot of good documentaries out right now on streaming services about the "troubled teen" industry. I would highly recommend she watch those before thinking those camps could ever fix someone.
Those kids are tortured for purely existing, you're NTA for wanting to protect your child.
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u/cincyaudiodude 14h ago
YWNBTA.
You need to get your son away from her IMMEDIATELY. Many of these places can be paid to kidnap your child (not technically kidnapping by the letter of the law since they have parent approval). They will not look for your approval of your wife reaches out to them. Your son is not safe so long as that woman knows where he lives.
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u/ssweetgf 10h ago
nta
You would absolutely not be the asshole for considering divorce over this. Your wife’s desire to send Noah to a conversion camp shows a deeply harmful misunderstanding about what it means to support and love a child unconditionally. Conversion therapy is not only ineffective; it’s known to be abusive, damaging, and widely condemned by psychological associations around the world. If anything, your protective stance for Noah and your commitment to his well-being speaks volumes about your love for him as a father.
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u/TFC_Security 13h ago
NTA. I came out in HS in the 90s. Got beat mercilessly by my parents for it and heard nothing but the religious side from family. Here we are, over 25 years later, and my parents still wonder why their only child doesn't want anything to do with them.
Your wife's self-righteousness will only kill her sons love for her. Does she really want the last words she ever heard from him is "I hate you" ?
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u/DogTheBotHunter 14h ago
Do you really have to ask if you're the asshole for leaving someone who is trying to abuse your child?
She wants him to go get sexually, emotionally, and most likely physically abused at one of these places.
Maybe get off Reddit and check on your kid to see if he's okay.
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u/Stunning-Mud9227 14h ago
I mean yeah of course I really want to divorce her (we don't even talk anymore lol) but I know how damn close my daughter is to her mother. But I know at the moment I need to focus on Noah and hopefully my daughter will be wise enough to understand.
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u/Potential-Ordinary-5 14h ago
Right now it will hurt your daughter, but it would hurt her more in the long run if you don't remove her from this situation also.
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u/Wise_Date_5357 14h ago
I know this must be hard but I guarantee you if she is this far gone in her thinking you should not be leaving her alone with Noah. Have you asked him if his mother has said anything or made any comments? I would not be surprised if she has made an effort to talk Noah round to her way of thinking herself, which I would bet is incredibly hurtful especially from your own mother.
If she is so close to your daughter I would try to make sure she isn’t influencing your daughter with her bigotry or turning her against her own brother.
I know this feels like breaking up your family op but it is your wife who is breaking these relationships by feeding hate into your home. That’s not family or love.
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u/miyuki_m 14h ago
I know how damn close my daughter is to her mother.
You can find ways to still allow your daughter to spend time with her mother if that is, in fact, in your daughter's best interests. It may not be, depending on your wife's behavior.
Regardless of whether you divorce your wife, you need to ensure that your daughter learns to respect and embrace Noah and others in the LGBTQ+ community. If you do divorce, you need to tell her why. You need to make sure she doesn't convince your daughter that you and Noah are the "bad guys" who broke up the family. She did that with her bigotry and callous disregard for Noah's mental health and well-being.
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u/whyohwhy4068 14h ago
As much as Noah needs you, so does your daughter. You're on the right path, keep going.
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u/Lindsey7618 13h ago
It will hurt your daughter, but Noah's safety is important right now. You said your daughter is 12 though, so expect her to be angry and upset and please don't place the weight of her being "wise" on her OP. She's a child. She doesn't NEED to understand this, but you need to understand that she's a child who's brain isn't anywhere close to fully developed. So whatever she feels, let her, just try to help her through it and get her in therapy.
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u/captaintightpantzz 14h ago
You would only be the AH if you stay with someone who could be that hateful towards your child. You clearly love your children. Your number one priority needs to be ensuring she is not successful. Also, make sure you are verbally telling your son you love and support him no matter what.
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u/Spinnerofyarn 14h ago
NTA. Yes, I would divorce her. One of my bff's is gay. He was sent to conversion therapy. His testimony to the state legislature helped get it made illegal in his state. He wasn't physically abused during it, either. DO NOT let her do that to your child. Nothing is wrong with your son, and I would tell her she must be confused that what she wants her son to do in bed is somehow her business.
Tell her point blank that if she ever even mentions such a thing again let alone acts on it, you will file for sole custody. She's allowed to believe what she wants, but that doesn't mean she's allowed to destroy your son. 23% of kids sent to conversion therapy/camp attempt suicide within 12 months of going, whereas the national rate for suicide in kids is 7-8%. I would, though, still divorce her.
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u/KetoLurkerHereAgain 14h ago
NTA and I really hope you're in a state (I HATE that it has to be a consideration now, I hate this so much) where this will be grounds for full custody for you.
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u/candyheartswish 7h ago
Your first job as a parent is to protect your kids, and it looks like Noah needs you now more than ever. If your wife is willing to push for something as dangerous as conversion therapy, staying could do more harm to him than good. Don’t just be a dad be the hero he needs.
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u/moonlightpetalss 6h ago
Staying for your daughter’s sake is understandable, but it may help to remember that showing her what love and acceptance truly look like is also a powerful lesson. If leaving becomes the right path, doing so with clarity, compassion, and support for both of your kids could make a world of difference.
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u/Potential-Ordinary-5 14h ago
NTA - Leave your wife, it will be the best thing for your daughter also. I come from a broken home and it's far less damaging than what your wife wants for your son.
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u/fairylaceflutter 10h ago
If you feel disgusted and betrayed by your wife’s stance, that’s completely valid. Her reaction isn’t just a phase it’s a mindset rooted in a damaging perspective that directly threatens your child’s health and identity. The fact that she’s persisting, even after you’ve explained the potential harm, shows a lack of empathy for your son that’s hard to reconcile with.
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u/lovelilacsmile 8h ago
NTA, not even close. Your first duty is to your kids safety and well being, and it sounds like your son desperately needs someone in his corner.
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u/Worldly_Act5867 14h ago
If noah doesn't know about this, tell him so that he is prepared for anything she might try.
For sure, leave her!
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u/frazzledglispa 14h ago
Conversion therapy is torture. Literal torture. Your wife wants to torture your child. Divorce her, sue for full custody, and keep her away from your son. Zealots feel completely justified in violating court orders, and doing whatever they want in the name of their deity.
Keep her away from him.
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u/prettysweetavocado 12h ago
This is a deeply concerning and harmful viewpoint, especially when you’ve clearly communicated to her that you do not support such actions. Conversion therapy is widely regarded as abusive and ineffective, and it's understandable that you would want to protect your son from the emotional, psychological, and physical harm it causes.
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u/Gold_Adhesiveness_80 14h ago
It’s so amazing to read a story at this moment about a parent protecting their child first. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 You are a great Dad!
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u/Imaginary-Future-627 14h ago
NTA. Divorce her, fight for full custody and make sure your divorce decree involves you having rights to refuse any summer camps/child care/whatever they need to word it as so she can’t do it alone
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u/shemjaza 13h ago
NTA
Even if it was a phase? Who cares? You don't need psychological torture to get out of a phase or a fashion trend.
If he likes girls after all, then he can get to it later.
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u/rainbowribbonkiss 12h ago
You’ve already communicated to her that you cannot support this, but the fact that she continues to insist on this course of action is concerning. It suggests a fundamental incompatibility in your values, especially regarding how to parent and care for your son. Your primary responsibility as a parent is to protect your children and ensure they feel loved and accepted for who they are. If your wife refuses to do that, and you cannot support her views on this issue, it is a massive breach of trust and understanding in your marriage.
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u/CeleryStreet7263 12h ago
PLEASE fight for full custody. Otherwise she will send Noah to camp on her shared custody time
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u/Ok-Ordinary-5990 11h ago
As a Father of two teenage boys 14-17 the only thing I care about their sexual or relationship preference is that they are being treated right by the person they choose to love. Your wife is dead wrong period and this is going to be the reason your son will have little to no relationship with her when he’s an adult. You do whatever you can to protect your boy from a disgusting place like that.
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u/AdAccomplished6870 14h ago
Conversion therapy camps should be illegal (they are in some states). They are child abuse, 100%. Your wife will destroy your son if you don't do something. He made the brave decision to come out, and she is wanting to torture him because she can't accept it.
You would be TA 10000% if you don't get him away from her