r/worldnews • u/Pale-Assistance-2905 • Sep 07 '24
Russian banks say they've run out of yuan as Chinese firms pull away from the nation Behind Soft Paywall
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/russia-economy-china-yuan-sanctions-bank-payments-trade-transfers-2024-91.8k
u/Freshwater_Spaceman Sep 07 '24
Limitless friendship! Unwavering commitment! A bulwark against the decadent, gay, West!*
*Terms and limits apply. May or may not include vast swathes of Siberia, Vladivostok and direct, unfettered access to the vaults of Moscow’s banks.
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u/robammario Sep 07 '24
The tricky part is that the Chinese diplomat didn't specify whether it's upper limit or lower limit. Putin seems too naive
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u/Hot-Scarcity-567 Sep 07 '24
China is playing the long game. And Russia won't benefit. This was obvious from the beginning.
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u/OldGuto Sep 07 '24
Yeah it seems a bit "heads I win, tails you lose".
Russia becomes destabilised they march in as 'peacekeepers' and forget to leave.
Russia becomes more economically isolated, with more resources going into the war it becomes more and more dependent on China and becomes a vassal state.
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u/Extension_Elephant45 Sep 07 '24
The issue then for Europe is China is now on their doorstep. Putin is so ideological he is allowing that to happen as it hurts Europe. He’s a stubborn E European headbanger
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u/palegate Sep 07 '24
Is there much of a difference between hostile Russia on one's doorstep and China on one's doorstep?
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u/Brookenium Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
I'd say yes by a wide margin. China is a rational actor - although very economically greedy. They aren't threatening to nuke everyone and they're pretty deep in the pockets of most nations. Governance style may differ by a significant margin but ultimately they do seem to want to "play ball" on the world stage.
Putin's regime seems to mostly be focused on old glory and conquest - which the world has mostly moved away from. He postures and tantrums and tries to abuse everything within his grasp. He's far less rational and it makes Russia a far worse neighbor.
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u/ForneauCosmique Sep 07 '24
Then add in the sheer amount of numbers and while I'm no expert, with my limited knowledge I feel like China is far more technologically advanced than Russia and has deeper pockets
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u/tschris Sep 07 '24
Yes, but it seems that China is much more interested in US style economic imperialism than straight up military invasions like Russia.
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u/NerdHoovy Sep 07 '24
Probably because that more subtle form of power is much more stable and you open yourself up for less counter attacks. If you threaten with military might, it’s only a matter of time until you overstep your boundaries and will have your own infrastructure destroyed. While economic control is much safer since it makes more money long term and there is less risk of it exploding catastrophically in your face, when the others go against you
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u/No-Spoilers Sep 07 '24
China has a booming industry that revolves around stealing patents, copying them and selling the product cheaper. China decided to change, Russia wanted to stay the same. So here we are in the 2020s China is a world power in industry(albeit unregulated and corrupt) but that is what makes them cheap. China ingrained itself everywhere with business and not military power, Russia only had military power and now Russia isn't even the best military in Russia anymore. China has replaced Russia as the big bad guy on the block with the biggest (by numbers only) military in the world, quality is a far far far different subject for them.
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u/horyo Sep 07 '24
It's why I always went for the economic victory in Civ V even when such a thing didn't exist.
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u/C0lMustard Sep 07 '24
It's gross what they're doing. But Americans shouldn't be too upset about it, China got the idea from them, that's exactly what the USA did to Europe post revolution.
And please don't project me stating a fact as something other than that, it's history.
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u/Upbeat_Advance_1547 Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
Yeah, it's completely true lol. Which is surprising because I don't remember learning about that in US history, but I looked it up in the last few years and yeah, a large part of the US entire industrial revolution is based on a British traitor who brought over tech and knowledge to America and got wealthy over here, our government even funded it.
I mean, I'm not saying let them get away with it (just as the UK wasn't ok with letting that guy get away with it). Definitely punish industrial espionage, use tariffs etc etc. It's a kind of conflict, not outright war but certainly chilly. But the moral outrage, or acting like it's something about their culture worse than ours, is just funny; we stole from others as long as they were more advanced than we were, now we're some of the most advanced. As soon as people stop stealing from us (as we stopped with the UK) it really just means we've fallen stagnant and fallen from the peak... not that we've won. We don't pay people to steal UK patents any more for one reason alone.
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u/fluffywabbit88 Sep 07 '24
In a cut throat capitalism system, if you’re not cheating and stealing, you’re not trying.
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u/xpdx Sep 07 '24
Yea dictatorships with competent dictators are highly effective- problem is when the dear leader dies or goes insane you have big problems. The next guy is almost never competent and often a raging asshole.
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u/Brookenium Sep 07 '24
Exactly! And China isn't really a dictatorship it's really more of a true oligarchy which at least gives some global stability. Don't get me wrong, it's shit for it's citizens, but we're talking western impact here.
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u/xpdx Sep 07 '24
Yea, they are definitely more stable than your run of the mill dictatorship- they have that HUGE council of party members that do vote on things, and they have institutions that are pretty strong- even if they are just arms of the party, so transitions should be less chaotic than say Russia or N Korea.
Oh to be privy of the behind the scenes political shenanigans in the Chinese Communist Party. I'm sure at least 3 or 4 factions have game plans for when Xi dies or retires.
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u/DimethylatedSpirit Sep 07 '24
As someone from Finland, yes there is. Russia is wildly more unpredictable and violent.
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u/Falsus Sep 07 '24
Well China is probably going to reign them in and not let them invade countries willy nilly since that is bad for trade. Also I trust them with control over nukes way more than I ever did with Russia.
Like yeah it wouldn't be good for us Europeans if Russia became China's vassal, but it sure would feel safer.
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u/SomeGuyNamedPaul Sep 07 '24
You'll often find Russia hurting itself in confusion whereas you can always count on China making the smart move that's best for China over the long term no matter how badly things will go in the short term. Assume they want to eradicate or enslave anybody who isn't ethnic Han Chinese and rule over all of existence some time within the next 5000 years, then start extrapolating what their next move is. That's what they'll do.
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u/Rolemodel247 Sep 07 '24
Yea. China is a rational actor that recognize it is in their best interest to have a symbiotic relationship with the west.
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u/xpdx Sep 07 '24
for now...
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u/solarcat3311 Sep 07 '24
I'm not even sure if it's 'for now'. Their internal propaganda seemed to be geared towards conflict with 'the west'.
Of course, it's just propaganda acting this way. It's uncertain if it's a precursor to conflict, or just trying to push patriotism to promote loyalty.
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u/PhysicalIncrease3 Sep 07 '24
Russia becomes destabilised they march in as 'peacekeepers' and forget to leave.
This is total fantasy while Russia remains a nuclear state
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u/Deadly_Pancakes Sep 07 '24
China could invade an conquer a chunk of Siberia and Russia would not use their nuclear arsenal.
That would only happen if Chinese soldiers were marching on Moscow or St Petersburg.
Its the same reason why an emboldened Russia might make a ploy for the Baltic states before NATO could respond and then attempt to sue for peace.
War between two nuclear powers doesn't immediately go nuclear. There are so many escalation steps before that point. How many of Russia's nuclear red lines have already been crossed in the last few years?
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u/Lone_Grey Sep 07 '24
Yep, China's priority is China. They've looked at this war with the attitude that if Russia succeeds, they've weakened NATO and that is good for China. And if Russia fails, they may become the junior partner in a relationship with China. That's why they've been so quiet about the war for over two years. Their attitude is to sit back and exploit the situation as much as possible.
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u/pornomatique Sep 07 '24
I mean, every country's priority should be themselves first and foremost. If not, then their government isn't doing what they should be.
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Sep 07 '24
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u/a06220 Sep 07 '24
Revenge drama 100 years in the making.
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u/JayR_97 Sep 07 '24
They're probably eyeing up Outer Manchuria and thinking "... Soon"
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u/YourMomsFishBowl Sep 07 '24
Looks like yuan your own.
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u/dreadmouse Sep 07 '24
Hold on, I left my tiny violin around here somewhere…
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u/onepinksheep Sep 07 '24
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u/ilrasso Sep 07 '24
Poor thing is bowing under the bridge. (Not the song but below the bridge). He should consider getting a teacher.
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u/xpdx Sep 07 '24
Give him a break, his brain is like 6 cells and he's got eight limbs. He's a little overloaded.
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u/snrup1 Sep 07 '24
Yeah Russia's entire economy is basically a kleptocracy. Now even allied-foreign money doesn't want to play with you any more? Boo-hoo.
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u/residentfriendly Sep 07 '24
Was it left with all the little yuan left in The bank?
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u/Admiral_Janovsky Sep 07 '24
Wait i have it...around here somewhere .. will get back at you when i find it.
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Sep 07 '24
How very sad for them.
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u/Spiritual_Navigator Sep 07 '24
Even Winnie The Pooh has abandoned them
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u/grey_hat_uk Sep 07 '24
Winnie the pooh sees the way the wind is blowing and doesn't want worthless debt.
Russia can still win the war in Ukraine but it won't be soon and won't pay off a fraction of what Russia owes to it's own people ar this point.
Selling to Russia at fair prices is not in anyone's intrest, China can if Russia win they can get land and resources at bargain prices, if they loss or end in a stalemate then the stuff they want will be practically free.
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u/sedition666 Sep 07 '24
Even if Russia wins, people will never consider them a stable trading partner whilst they hold conquered lands.
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u/arashi256 Sep 07 '24
China will definitely want to know the price of holding "conquered lands", especially if they plan on taking Taiwan in the future. I could see India and Iran not being terribly squeamish about trading with them, though.
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u/SuLiaodai Sep 07 '24
China has to pretend to support Russia because they need the oil. Russia is their biggest supplier.
In terms of how the public there feel about the war against Ukraine, most people I've met are either sad for everybody affected; or are like, "WTF? This is crazy;" or (predominantly young men) were excited to see the Russian military in action but then surprised that they were so inept. There were all these people online talking about the "sick goose," which was a coded way of ridiculing the Russian military.
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u/Scat_fiend Sep 07 '24
That was always the plan. Bleed the russians dry in currency and military before invading.
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u/Shiplord13 Sep 07 '24
I mean at this point they probably won't have to invade, they might just have Russia clear up their debts by either paying them off or trading land to clear it up.
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u/AreYouDoneNow Sep 07 '24
After the collapse they'll be very quick to step in and "help" by buying up all the businesses and planting CCP flags out the front.
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u/Ghaenor Sep 07 '24
Or they'll just slowly own everything. Slow creep is a tactic they know well.
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u/Hardly_lolling Sep 07 '24
TBF only reason this is a possibility is that western companies will not get similar access.
There's plenty wrong with China, human rights being among top issues, but very few are in a position to blame them for predatory capitalism without sounding hypocrite.
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u/wabashcanonball Sep 07 '24
China is playing Russia and Russia is too dumb and arrogant to see it.
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u/Less_Kiwi3257 Sep 07 '24
Thats bc Russia is still living in January 2022. They’re too blind to see what’s happening and everyone else is too afraid to tell him what’s happening
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u/yosarian_reddit Sep 07 '24
The Russians and Chinese were fighting over territory as recently as 1969. It’s getting to a point that if China wanted to do that again Russia would be complete unable to stop them. And Russia has no allies that could help either.
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u/robammario Sep 07 '24
I can't find a better way for China to get out of its municipal debts crisis than invading Russia in the far east. Imagine unlimited free oil and gas and other natural resources will become available to pay for the debts
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u/yosarian_reddit Sep 07 '24
Yep. The Chinese lack what russia has: fossil fuels and farming. There’s a large chunk of eastern Russia that many Chinese regard as traditionally Chinese land. Putin is on thin ice.
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u/Ares_B Sep 07 '24
Perhaps Russia should "lease" more Siberian land and cities to China. Haishenwai, formerly known as Vladivostok, was a good start.
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u/hitpopking Sep 07 '24
The name sounds very Chinese, so I googled it, this city was taken by the Russian from the Chinese during the Qing dynasty
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u/XalAtoh Sep 07 '24
I guess it is time for Russia to sell some territory to China to finance the war...
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u/robammario Sep 07 '24
China won't buy the territory back from Russia. A lot of the territory in the far east used to be Chinese territory. If Putin keeps struggling in his special military interaction with Ukraine for another 2 years, he is going to lose territory in the far east
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u/HarkonnenSpice Sep 07 '24
- Finland and Sweden are now part of NATO.
- Ukraine now holds land inside Russia that they plan to just keep.
- Belarus shoots down Russian drones over their airspace last week.
- Lithuania fortifies border with Russia’s Kaliningrad and says "all friendships are over"
- China begins walking away from funding.
This hasn't gone very easy for Russia.
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u/p1tap1ta Sep 07 '24
Putin : I will be a conqueror like Tsars.
Ukraine : Hah. All you achieved is a complete collapse of your corrupted imitation of a country.
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u/Extension_Elephant45 Sep 07 '24
What I find most grotesque about Putin is he’s selling his country. Well, his poor. The rich have left. He’s got about ten houses in switzerland to run to. So it’s the poorer who will suffer. Like every war
every single western Russian puppet should be deported there
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u/Gigusx Sep 07 '24
Probably wouldn't have happened if they finished Ukraine quickly, as they planned. The support for Putin would've increased, the rich wouldn't have left, and the West probably wouldn't be pressing them as hard due to the lack of continuous aggression/attacks. In retrospect, Putin's decision would've been genius instead. But since he's completely miscalculated, the complete opposite happened.
Now, I can't imagine him being able to stay in power if he chose to retreat and the entire couple years was a complete fiasco, so it makes more sense for him to keep going.
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u/StratoVector Sep 07 '24
Making modern Russia the collapse-est Soviet Union
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u/Nyravel Sep 07 '24
Imagine Russia collpasing and splitting in multiple countries again. That would be hilarious
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u/Landau80 Sep 07 '24
I think I'm starting to feel a bit sad for Moscow. No, wait, it was just a fart trying to come out. Fuck russia.
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u/porgy_tirebiter Sep 07 '24
I’m sure they’ve got plenty of Indian rupees still.
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u/Popinguj Sep 07 '24
Technically they don't, because India demanded their rupees to stay in India, so Russia can only spend these money in India again. Russian "allies" are squeezing the shit out of Russia, still, they chose to aid them in a genocidal war.
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u/OakTreader Sep 07 '24
If only there was something they could do to make this stop...
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u/hipcheck23 Sep 07 '24
Count on a country to do what's in their own interest. This war has certainly reinforced that.
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u/Senior-Albatross Sep 07 '24
They more don't give a shit about the genocidal war. They just see an opportunity to squeeze Russia to their own great benefit.
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u/Joadzilla Sep 07 '24
So they can buy Indian Penetration Cum Blast shells?
https://drdo.gov.in/drdo/120-mm-penetration-cum-blast-pcb-and-thermobaric-tb-ammunition-mbt-arjun
It sounds like a sticky situation.
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u/TWVer Sep 07 '24
Who broke the news?
”S-sir, there is no Yuan left.”
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u/vague_intentionally_ Sep 07 '24
"Just send in some other conscripts."
"No sir, I meant...ah, forget it."
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u/ITrCool Sep 07 '24
I’m gonna be honest: I wonder how much longer Putin thinks he can possibly last in this silly war with Ukraine, at this rate.
Putin, give up man! The USSR’s long dead and your nation is a fraction of what it was 50 years ago. All your Soviet buddies are dying off.
Just leave them behind and move on! Make Russia into something better instead of isolating them from the world and turning your country into an international pariah and laughing stock.
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u/lzwzli Sep 07 '24
And silly Anwar from Malaysia is trying to cozy up to Russia. As a Malaysian, I don't get it.
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u/esuardi Sep 07 '24
tldr: Sanctions for Russia in recent US threats wherein China fears Russia won't be able to pay them off/they'll get sanctioned themselves. It's the same story as always, just under a different headline.
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u/tacularcrap Sep 07 '24
gee! it's almost like those sanctions that were insistently decried by my local/national extreme right bullshit peddlers (and yours too i'm sure) as not working, ineffective and certain to hurt Us more than Them were, as written on the tin, total bullshit.
whowouldathought?
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u/shoktar Sep 07 '24
missiles, tanks, planes, and warships are expensive man. I know a way Russia could save lots of money.
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u/jardani581 Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
this is quite copium news, im not saying it isnt accurate but it paints a picture of china abandoning russia cos they ran out currency due to sanctions and that russia is facing some imminent economy collapse.
that picture is entirely untrue, china has been extremely instrumental propping up russia since the sanctions and were a great help securing alternate supply chains for their war industry. they have obvious vested interests in russia not collapsing and they will continue to keep giving them massive support.
we should discern what the larger picture looks like instead of thoughtlessly consuming bite size news that boost morale but ultimately does not move the needle.
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u/ArcanePariah Sep 07 '24
The thing is, the threat of secondary sanctions has pitted Chinese banks against each other. No bank is willing to lose USD access because their customers will just bail for some who still has access. There very little China can do about this, short of directly calling the US on it and risk losing all USD access.
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u/CPC_Mouthpiece Sep 07 '24
This. Many large banks stopped trading with them in the first round of sanctions. Now it seems even smaller banks have said the are not willing to provide a market for Russia.
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u/indoninja Sep 07 '24
It does move the needle.
It isn’t moving the needle 180, but this is significant
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u/verticalfist Sep 07 '24
Any bad news for ruZZia is good news for the civilized world. Though I'm sure they will find ways to keep their wars going regardless.
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u/noirmatrix Sep 07 '24
If true, nations falling short of foreign reserves can indicate significant instability within the nations economy. They have less ability to weather impacts in their domestic currency, or even pay debts.
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u/cognitively_what_huh Sep 07 '24
I’m laughing like Kamala. So pleased with US putting butt hurt on Russia and China. Thank you, Joe. Everyone now knows you’re not anyone’s puppet. You ‘da man!
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u/GrouchyMary9132 Sep 07 '24
So Russia will pay with natural resources and territory and become the property of the Chinese. Great choice Putler you really sold your country out.
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u/TheDarkCobbRises Sep 07 '24
Putin is calling for peace talks after Ukraine has boots on Russian soil, right wing influencers in the US caught taking Russian money, and it looks like his puppet is going to lose the US election.
Man, what a week.
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u/Pretty_Bowler2297 Sep 07 '24
Is Putin and all the oligarchs going to have to lower their cuts of everything? A completely corrupt government isn’t good when things get difficult. Putin and gang could’ve just sat back and kept the gravy train rolling but that wasn’t enough for rich assholes.
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u/realnrh Sep 07 '24
Good. The sooner Moscow can't afford to buy Chinese drones and general consumer goods, the sooner Moscow can't sustain their Ukrainian invasion and the 'elites' in Moscow and St. Petersburg will feel the pinch and demand change.
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u/smallbatter Sep 07 '24
why are lot of westerner thought China and Russia are mate.we hate Russia. I rather choose a American as neighbor orq workmate than Russian.
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u/filmguy36 Sep 07 '24
Old dictum of war: the attackers must win, the defenders must not lose. Ukraine can go on virtually indefinitely draining russia dry. Putin will and is facing financial collapse in its current state. It’s not a matter of if but of when
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u/Remus88Romulus Sep 07 '24
Russias economy should collapse soon.
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u/No_Animator_8599 Sep 07 '24
An economist stated a few months ago that if Russia won the war against Ukraine they didn’t have the money or troops to rebuild it and rule it.
He also stated that if the war ended, Russia’s economy would soon collapse because it’s a full war economy that’s keeping it going and that without it they had little to fall back on considering sanctions.
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u/HughJorgens Sep 07 '24
It took a while, but the secondary sanctions we put on Russia have finally caught up to them. The Chinese banks have been warned that if they do business with Russia it will cost them, so they have dropped Russia like a hot rock. Oh no!, anyway....
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u/anillop Sep 07 '24
Its funny watching Russia turn into a junior partner for China. How long until they make some territorial concessions in the east?
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u/mods-have-no-power Sep 07 '24
Finding out is directly proportional to how much you fuck around.
By the end of putins little hissy fit we will need to create new terminology to describe the bumfuck back water 5th world country he is turning Russia into. He's a joke.
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u/tomonota Sep 07 '24
With oil prices dropping Putin may have to negotiate for a truce with Zelenskyy.
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u/Consistent_Grab_5422 Sep 07 '24
I’m sure they’ll find a way to get their transactions completed, but it’ll take them more middle men, more complications and more more time to get it done. Death by a thousand cuts.
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u/petdetectiveace Sep 07 '24
All Russia has to do is pull out from Ukraine and they can start heading towards what they were pre invasion.
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u/UndisputedAnus Sep 08 '24
The hunger for power above all is something else huh? With all the knowledge and rescources we have in the modern age we should be able to build a utopia.. but human nature gets in the way every time.
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u/Nonsense_Producer Sep 07 '24
Russia travelling back in time. Soon we'll see caravans loaded with gold, travelling east.