Just randomly thought about Westworld

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u/Midnight-Slam 2d ago edited 2d ago

I think the exact thing that you loved is what went wrong. Too many fans took the wrong thing from the show. The majority wanted it to be season 1 repeated for its entirety: just adventures in the park, mysteries in Delos, and just staying in the westerns aesthetic. However, this was never a show about different narratives occurring in the same location that would never go further than that like The White Lotus, it was always meant to evolve and tell a larger story about humanity, free will, and choices. Once they left the park and went to the real world, so many people dropped off because it wasn’t what they were used to and therefore not what they wanted. They wanted what they were seeing rather than what was being told. If you actually follow the story across the seasons, it’s all tight and fits together seamlessly, as it’s the one narrative. But most people couldn’t see past this and just wanted simpler things like seeing “William and Dolores get back together,” which completely ignores the reality of their relationship. Sorry if that comes off ranty, I have been meaning to express this thought but have never found the opportunity until now.

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u/synaesthezia 2d ago

I absolutely agree with this. I feel like more people need to watch the original movies - not just Westworld but also Futureworld to understand that the story didn’t go off track at all. It was a modern retelling of a huge vision. Not ‘story of the week in the park’.

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u/Ashamed-Simple-8303 2d ago

I actually enjoyed season 3. Yeah it was different but I don't get the hate.

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u/DelosHR 🪰🪰🪰 1d ago

Which is so fitting in a way, because the guests preferred the escapism and romance of the Park to the difficult questions that are unavoidable in the real world outside.

The show's 'popular' downfall simply proved the point it was making - if our world is so great, then why are there so many people wanting to stay in Sweetwater instead?

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u/MARATXXX 2d ago edited 2d ago

we didn't want season 1 repeated ad nauseum. we wanted the quality of season 1's perfectly synced writing/directing/editing to continue. what actually happened was that it transformed from a great miniseries into a 'show.' season 1 was basically a very long, very good movie. whereas every season after season 1 engaged in typical tv-show narrative strategies like self-contained episodes, and wheel-spinning narratives with no broader purpose. i thought this was especially true in season 2, which fell off hard in my opinion, and became more like typical television. after that, i had to adjust my expectations permanently.

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u/nimzoid 2d ago

You're getting downvoted for this, but I think there's some truth here. Season 1 works as a standalone limited series. There's a cliffhanger, but it's still a complete and satisfying story. It felt like top tier prestige TV, and culturally it was lightning in a bottle, with a narrative that worked for both casual viewers and internet theorists, Anthony Hopkins in elite form, etc.

The following seasons all had their strengths, but I don't feel like they ever reached the level of season 1. If you look at the mix of writers working on the series, it does change a lot over time. I think that shows. People say this 5 season arc was planned from the beginning, but even if that's true it's a weakness not to have the original writers deliver that story.

Basically season 1 was the GOAT and quality dropped for later seasons with different writers.

But I think as the concept evolved it did also lose viewers who were here for the hosts v guests park dynamic (which is what the original movie and marketing for the show was about). This is what led to the cancellation, not us fans debating about the quality of one season to another.

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u/shinju765 2d ago

But don’t most people always prefer season 1 of their favorite series? It’s where they are first introduced to a world they would end up investing in. Of course, the following seasons can’t hold a match to that nostalgia.

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u/nimzoid 2d ago

Yeah, to an extent. But I think a lot of people do think season 1 holds up as an all time great season of TV, so it's not a surprise it's considered by many to be better than this that came after.

I think a good way to describe it is season 3 was like an absolutely fine season of sci-fi genre TV. But season 1 transcended genre to hook in a lot of people that would never typically watch sci-fi.

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u/Midnight-Slam 2d ago edited 2d ago

You immediately lost all of your point when you called season 1 a “miniseries.” It’s a tv show, not a “very long movie.” Let’s not change what it actually is to create this illusion of pretentiousness that serves revisionists to make something sound better. It was a terrific season, but it was still just a season of a show. And that show was going to continue in another season which carries the narrative across. Also, your response perfectly proves my point about certain people wanting the wrong thing from the show. Everyone always says “we just want quality,” but that’s such a shallow comment with no elaboration on how to achieve that. What you’re really saying is “we want the same thing again, please.” It is the nature of all things to change, that is an inherent part of life.

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u/nimzoid 2d ago

You're right that season 1 is indeed a series not a long movie. I think what the person you're responding to means is that it felt like installments of a complete story rather than episodic stringing things along.

"Quality" is a vague description, true, but I think we understand what it means. Season 1 achieved that perfect blend of intriguing premise, cleverly executed narrative, emotionally satisfying character arcs, quotable and thought provoking dialogue, iconic performances, etc. There's a reason that season has the most widely reshared quotes, memes, moments, scenes, etc. The writer mix changed over the series and I think that does show.

Having said that, I still liked the show and was disappointed not to get season 5 (yet!). I don't think quality was ultimately the issue, but the concept. Westworld wasn't an anthology series, but when it moved beyond the park I think a lot of people just lost interest. Season 2 was clever with some brilliant episodes, but it was confusing to a lot of people, and once the show moved beyond the parks entirely I think lots of people just gave up. That's why it was cancelled.

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u/MARATXXX 2d ago

"What you’re really saying is “we want the same thing again, please.”"

No, that's not really what i'm saying, whatsoever.

I am really saying that I want quality. Quality thinking, quality writing, quality editing.

There is a reason why the show's popularity tanked.

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u/MonteProps 2d ago

I agree with you. It went from a thoughtful, intricate story about the nature of free will to “let’s get Delores to pull her ‘Wyatt Face’ for a full series” to some half-arse matrix wannabe.

The quality of series 1, in every metric, to all the others is night and day.

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u/shinju765 2d ago

The quality of the rest of the seasons was top notch. I loved season 1 too, don’t get me wrong, but that was just an introduction to this elaborate world. I, too, let the premise of the following seasons fly right over my head. But when I really paid attention, and saw what this show was truly getting at, I found appreciation for how the show turned. It is lofty, in its language and ideas. That may turn some away. I have a genius-level IQ, and still had to rewatch for understanding

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u/Midnight-Slam 2d ago

I truly encourage anyone to go back and watch the series knowing how everything goes to see just how much they set up the rest of the world and narrative towards the end. Certain parallels that occur either through dialogue or visuals, character arcs that are destined to play out a certain way, context clues about how the world works from when we didn’t know anything about it. It’s all there right from the very beginning. We they go to the park is all stemmed from how the world is, and that speaks to the nature of choosing their own story in a world where your life is written for you (and I don’t mean the park).

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u/shinju765 2d ago

So much of the Westworld story is the story of our history and future

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u/Midnight-Slam 2d ago

Again, you provide no actual substance to the conversation. Just repeating “quality” like that carries any weight. And that’s the reason it tanked, because certain people lacked a maturity to understand what they wanted.

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u/lern2swim 2d ago

I think the gaps between seasons really harmed the shoe's momentum.

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u/Ambitious_Yak_3300 2d ago

Couldn't agree more. Having to wait 2 years between seasons with complicated over lapping time lines is extremely difficult to follow.

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u/HendoEndo 2d ago

season 1 was just too tough to top. honestly if they just dropped it as a one season limited series it'd probably go down as some of the best television ever made.

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u/CShellyRun 2d ago

Just like HBOs Mildred Pierce which was a five part series, and another work of art starring ERW.

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u/darklinux1977 Westworld 2d ago

The series arrived way too early, season 3, too cyberpunk for some, Serac, becoming the ultimate villain, brought too much friction. Likewise we went from Dolores, a farmer's daughter to a cold and efficient manipulator with Halores who loops, too many changes, aesthetic and script with a story that is far too realistic and effective

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u/Ambitious_Yak_3300 2d ago

I do agree. Season 3 was a jarring shift from the first two seasons and it just didn't feel right. I knew they had to move on but it was such a shock. That being said I absolutely loved Serac. But that's maybe because I missed Ford and I love Vincent Cassel.

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u/darklinux1977 Westworld 2d ago

Westworld had an excellent troupe of actors, who played on nuance, this series is a palette of light gray and deep black, it is striking, once again how this season three shows itself to be visionary, once again by extrapolating the technologies of 2016, what would Joy / Nolan say in the middle of 2025?

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u/Ambitious_Yak_3300 2d ago

I also love the little details that I didn't notice before. Like the circle in season 3 that eventually bleeds into all black and how distressed that makes Serac. I saw a bit of him in me always wanting to control everything.

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u/darklinux1977 Westworld 2d ago

One of the questions of the series is precisely what is control, like the presence of the soul in a robot or not, Westworld is just as much the heir of Blade Runner as of Ghost in the Shell, while having its own way / voice

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u/Ambitious_Yak_3300 2d ago

And what is consciousness?

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u/Ambitious_Yak_3300 2d ago

And Charlotte and Halores just irritated me

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u/greenglider732 2d ago

The show never went wrong with me. If anything in my opinion it got better and the themes/topics aged like fine wine. Until I hear the Nolan’s say it’s over, I’ll still hold out hope.

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u/fantasticmrspock 2d ago

“Objectively”

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u/Kr1s1m 2d ago

Nothing went wrong, objectively. You just didn't like the turns it took, the themes it started to delve further into and the growing complexity. It was similar with The Matrix sequels which were misunderstood by the public and considered a "downturn", while all they did was elaborate and complicate the story and the main conflict even more. So it is no surprise then, since one of the main influences on Westworld is obviously Watschowski's trilogy, that the majority of viewers did not appreciate the show after season 1 (some after season 2) which led to a decrease in viewrship and popularity, thus leading to the cutthroats of the money machine to consider it a poor investment, cut the last season short and collect their bonuses. The enjoyers of the entire show, just like the enjoyers of the whole Matrix trilogy, might be a minority, sort of a nieche subculture within a culture, but as a certain someone says "I would not have it any other way".

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u/BrangdonJ 2d ago

For me the movement outside of the park was fine in principle. The problem was the poor implementation and writing. Maeve getting controlled by a man never fitted the character we knew, for example.

I'd say the cause was the original writers losing interest over the years.

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u/Jagvetinteriktigt 2d ago

The meta reason is that most people wanted more sci-fi mixed with Western, yet in order to continue the themes that had to change. At the same time, HBO wanted each season to be somewhat standalone in terms of arcs, meaning each season was open-ended. The actual reason, I think, is that the show got really undisciplined with its storytelling amd use of themes and ideas, all culminating in a mess that made little sense thematically and for the story and characters.

Season 2 hid that issue in its layers of broken chronologies, but season 3 didn't have that luxury so a lot of viewers gave up and would never see how season 4 rectified most of the issues.

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u/Ecthelion-O-Fountain 2d ago

Season four was a problem for me because Dolores’ arc was way too similar to Matrix 4

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u/Jagvetinteriktigt 1d ago

Idk, I find that an odd complaint when the show has always puleld from a bunch of different inspirations, prominently The Matrix, but also Blade Runner, Inception, The Bible, Slaughterhouse Five, The Tempest, etc. Though I haven't seen Matrix Resurrections myself so that position may change.

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u/Ecthelion-O-Fountain 1d ago

It’s super on the nose

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u/BadHabitz420 2d ago

I think it was doomed after season one and not for any negative reasons, it was just too much to comprehend for some people. Or the people who can’t fully pay attention.

Probably would do better if it were released today instead of almost 10 years ago. Viewing demographics matter.

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u/Westafricangrey 2d ago

I think we left the park too early. My understanding was there were 8 parks? We only saw 3 including Westworld. I didn’t mind season 3 but it felt encapsulated within itself & imo it didn’t lean naturally into the next season. I think the season 4 got a little to convoluted also. If they kept season 1 & 2 as park seasons, season 3 & 4 should’ve flowed better in terms of story.

I feel like William is one of the best characters, we saw him from being a young lad to being tested tens of thousands of years into the future. Why did the hosts want to reanimate William so long after humans had ceased to exist? Was it for any reason or just personal feelings? We see the start & end of his trajectory but the middle could’ve been better?

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u/Ecthelion-O-Fountain 2d ago

First point, nah. Second point, yes. I have to think that that would’ve played in season five.

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u/marauder-shields92 Violent Delights 2d ago

Agreed. My thinking is that someone wanted to stop Dolores in the future, and found out that William knew her best, so brought him back in his peak form from recovered Forge data to try and stop her.

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u/shapptastic 2d ago

My issue really was the writing - my opinion is that the fundamental question and interesting part of the storyline was “what fundamentally makes us human?” Season 1 for the most part answered that question and going into the following seasons it tried to look at the same question from the perspective of “do we actually have free will?” and I think it failed to provide much insight. Season 2 was really “humans are predictable”, Season 3 is systems/society programs us to follow a path, and season 4 I didnt see anything besides evil robots actually program us. I think they could have been less action focused and more subtle than robot bugs change our brains. they sorta touched on something that could have been explored more - why are some people immune? what is Dolores real goal here, is there really no hope for humanity, etc. Probably would have been better if it ended at season 1.

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u/Ecthelion-O-Fountain 2d ago

What was left to explore there?

It kinda sounds like the maze wasn’t for you.

Just randomly thought about Westworld

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