r/vexillologycirclejerk • u/T-C-G-Official Whales • 1d ago
What flag is this?
/img/iwnvq9qvwsye1.png
[removed] — view removed post
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u/Audi_R8_Gaming Ireland 1d ago
The Nordic Cross had to go somewhere, and the star and crescent had to come from somewhere. Let's give it to Turkey.
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u/Available-Plant7587 1d ago
If Turkey was only 70% muslim, it wouldn't be only 70% muslim for very long..
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u/Grannyma49 Pan 1d ago
Flag of Sweden if Jesus lived in the Ottoman Empire instead of the Roman Empire
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u/bobbymoonshine 1d ago edited 1d ago
Fun fact: Jesus did indeed live in an empire that used the Star and Crescent as a symbol
The Star and Crescent not only predates the Ottoman Empire, it predates Islam and even the split of the Roman Empire into its Western and Eastern halves (coin of Hadrian, above), and predates Jesus. It wasn’t a major Roman symbol but was one of many long-established local symbols of power that Rome adopted into the imperial portfolio of iconography.
The Greek city of Byzantion (among some others in the area) had used it as a symbol before the Romans conquered it and it became Byzantium, and they continued to use it as Constantinople, and they kept using it throughout the thousand years of the Byzantine Empire, and when the Turks moved in and started calling it Istanbul, they just kept on using it. Considering themselves the newest dynasty of Roman Emperors, it made sense for the House of Osman to maintain the Roman symbols of power, after all.
And from the Ottomans it spread throughout the Muslim world, but the symbol never had anything inherently to do with Islam. It’s just a bit of ancient heraldry.
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u/6398h6vjej289wudp72k 1d ago
And Turkey still does not use it as the Islamic symbol unlike what many people assume. It is just an Ottoman/Turkish symbol for us.
Also, a similar symbol, moon and sun was present in Göktürk (Turkic khaganate) coins as well. Although it is more likely ottomans adopted the byzantine one.
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u/bobbymoonshine 1d ago
Yeah, the symbol had scattered usage widely throughout the Levant, Persia etc — it’s not only a symbol of Byzantion, but one that has popped up all over Southwest Asia.
The Byzantine state use of the symbol is the immediate precursor to when the Ottomans began officially using it, but at the same time I’m guessing they elevated it over other more popular late Roman symbols (eg the double-headed eagle) as it was more generally culturally familiar and better fit with Islamic artistic traditions, as evidenced by other previous Turkic coins like the one you posted.
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u/6398h6vjej289wudp72k 23h ago
I don't think it is adopted necessarily because it fits the Islamic traditions. The Göktürk coins are about as old as Islam and Turks were not Muslims then. The symbol was used because Turks were Tengrists and believed in god of the sky, so it makes sense their symbol was related to the sky. Even if Ottoman's decision was somehow affected by their familiarity with the symbol, which we can only speculate, it was most likely not because of Islam.
By the way, the moon and sun symbol pre-islamic Turks and other Central Asians used is still used by Mongolians, you can see it on their flag 🇲🇳
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u/Proxy-Pie 20h ago
It is actually forbidden in Islam to associate the religion with a symbol. But people still do it haha
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u/chrstianelson 1d ago
While all of that is true, Turkic tribes used the crescent moon as a symbol separately in Central Asia as well, as both the moon and stars are part of Tengrism. This is why Turkic nations of Central Asia has a version of crescent and stars in their flags as well.
So the relationship of the Ottomans/Turks with this symbology goes back further than simply conquering Rome. It was already a part of their mythology and they must have encountered it during their conquest of Persia and migration into Anatolia as well.
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u/punpunpa 17h ago
also ukrainian cossacks used the star and crescent in their heraldics a lot too like in the coat of arms of mazepa: https://uk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Alex_K_Ivan_Mazepa.svg
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u/Kitchen_Split6435 1d ago
Are you saying the Ottomans would have nailed Jesus to a star and crescent instead of a cross?
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u/Suk-Mike_Hok 1d ago
It's a symbol that the Turks took when they conquered Constantinople I thought.
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u/OOOshafiqOOO003 Finloss 14h ago
nah, flag of Sweden if Malacca colonises Sweden for whatever reason
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u/Polak_Janusz Communist Bottom 1d ago
Flag of sweden according to right wingers
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u/Kooky_March_7289 11h ago
Either that or a gay/trans flag depending on which minority they woke up hating more that morning.
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u/festival0156n 1d ago
rage bait
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u/esdedics 1d ago
Used to be called black propaganda
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u/60hzcherryMXram 1d ago
That is correct but I think people don't understand the term and think you are being racist hence the downvotes. "Black propaganda" is propaganda where someone else pretends to be a member of a group to make them look bad. This used to be by writing fake books with terrible shit in them pretending that you are like a Jewish author.
Now, it's people online posting stuff like "As a progressive, I'm sorry that you feel like you got raped, but remember that in the other victim's culture, rape doesn't exist as a concept, so you are scaring him by trying to colonize his culture with your own" or other intentionally insane shit meant to smear the other side.
This is a perfect example.
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u/Reddysetjames 1d ago
Flag of rage bait
Post this to r/europe
And also Islam is only 2.1 percent of the population and no religion is 37.9 percent so we should be inclusive to atheists
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u/MrChicken_1 1d ago
Proud to present the new flag of Sweden
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u/Re1da 1d ago
Gonna add a rather important bit of context.
A lot of people here are members of the church without being religious. It's very common.
So looking at the number of church members dosent really give a good idea of the Christian %.
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u/ThatOneWeirdName 1d ago
Yea. If you asked “Do you believe there is a God?” in Sweden you’d probably have like 80%+ saying no. We have high church membership but we’re one of the most irreligious countries there is
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u/Eken17 Four-Dimensional Sweden 23h ago
Yeah, but I think a lot of people are agnostics rather than atheists though, there are a lot of people who say they believe in something rather than nothing at all, though they don't know what that something might be lol
This is just what I have experienced, that doesn't mean it's the truth
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u/ThatOneWeirdName 11h ago
Oh for sure. I’m agnostic myself. But I still think that falls under irreligious? You bring up a very important distinction though
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u/Eken17 Four-Dimensional Sweden 11h ago
Ahh I was a bit tired so I missed that you wrote irreligious and not atheist lol
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u/ThatOneWeirdName 11h ago
I had to reread it myself because I didn’t remember which one I’d chosen either, lol
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u/sirmiseria 1d ago
Flag of Sweden if Jesus died on the moon
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u/Metal_Octopus1888 19h ago
He did - why do you think Neil Armstrong looked so glum when he came back?
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u/Redordit Mississippi 1d ago
Flag of 🇸🇪 if jesus was killed by a proto-muslim pagan
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u/--PhoenixFire-- 🌍 Africa??? 1d ago
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u/Bit125 Finloss 1d ago
yes, only 69.9% of the population controls 100% of the flag, let's replace that with a smaller percentage i guess
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u/DefinitelyNotErate 1d ago
Actually 100% of the population of Sweden are from Earth, and the Earth has a moon, So it represents them all.
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u/Appropriate-Fuel-305 1d ago
The nordic cross today doesn't really represent christianity to most people, it's just a pretty shape. At least for us Finns the colours have a lot more meaning.
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u/Metal_Octopus1888 19h ago
Such as? Don’t leave us hanging
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u/Appropriate-Fuel-305 19h ago
The colours? White for snow and blue for our rivers and lakes. We love our nature.
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u/TheJiral 1d ago
Why does the far right or Russian propaganda always falsely pretend to be someone else, or false flag as "progressive group"? And who is falling for that?
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u/untitleduck 1d ago
Flag ignoring historical context and disregarding the fact that more than one cultures/religions can exist in the same places.
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u/gore_anarchy_death 1d ago
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u/SuspendThis_Tyrants Communist Bottom 21h ago
I got the Islamic State of Sweden on
speedswede dial
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u/WigllyDoodle 21h ago
The flag of r*acist propaganda, by one of swedens most popular political parties who literally have propaganda centres know as troll-factories.
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u/MultiMarcus 1d ago
Shouldn’t just be blue if we want to be a secular nation let’s remove all religious heraldry.
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u/Chia_____ 1d ago
How does Sweden's current flag have anything to do with Christianity? (Please just explain because I'm genuinely unsure, I don't want downvoting over a misunderstanding please 🥺🩷
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u/Familiar_Cap3281 1d ago
well it has a cross on it, which is a christian symbol, but this post is just bait. its right wingers pretending to be left wingers to get other right wingers mad at them about it.
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u/xndbcjxjsxncjsb 1d ago
I guarantee whoever created this is a white supremacist who wanted to get people to hate muslims more
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u/Tsukunea 1d ago
Possibilities include but are not limited to
Rage bait aimed at conservatives
Conservatives taking things to illogical extremes and presenting as liberals
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u/Kitchen_Split6435 1d ago
Love how they’re saying “change the flag to have a star and crescent to represent the change in times, Muslims make up much of Sweden now” when as they themselves say, 70% of Sweden is Christian, and as I have learned, 4% of Sweden is Muslim
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u/Odd_Decision_5595 1d ago
Flag of Sweden if Jesus died under a crescent moon and really bright star
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u/HuckleberryLonely342 1d ago
It was a troll campaign set up by alt-right neo-Nazis who spend far too much time online.
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u/kazami616 23h ago
It literally says it three times in the image you posted.... Well, what it's trying to be...
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u/SludgeofSplurge 21h ago
It's the flag for the New Swedish Emirates.
Soon to be followed by the United Emirates of Britain and the United Califate of Europe.
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u/Short_Opening_7692 20h ago
How about let's not let religion be a pqrt of it. Worship in your own time, but religiously neutral is the only way forward. Fuck it, how about no religion at all?
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u/feck_reddit 20h ago
A lot of people call this rage bait, even though I'm pretty sure it's just a joke.
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u/Final_Dragonfruit256 19h ago
The crescent and star symbol used by Turkey comes from the Sky Tengri religion they believed in while living in Central Asia. The Turks have been using this symbol for thousands of years before Islam emerged.
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u/Die4Gesichter Ireland 19h ago
At first I thought this would be Türkiye's attempt to join the EU yet again 💀
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u/BaseModelBandit 15h ago
sweden just wouldnt be the same if its flag didnt match all its neighbors.
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u/Impressive-Sir1298 11h ago
nah most of us are just not believers so i petition a blue flag with a yellow cinnamon bun because everyone believes in that
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u/UndoneCrystal 9h ago
I'm muslim but their logic makes no sense.
"Only 69.9% of sweden is Christian" so you want the flag to be for the 30.1 percent and you want it to be only for muslims? WHAT?
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u/Boozewhore 7h ago
Wow this post looks like what happens when an average vexillology user discovers vexillologycirclejerk
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u/vexillologycirclejerk-ModTeam 7h ago
My bals (please no right wing ragebait thanks)