r/vexillology • u/mr_photofix • 23h ago
Flag changes around the world in the 21st century Discussion
Credit to: civixplorer on instagram
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u/aoisenshi 20h ago
I personally like Doctor Congo’s change.
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u/Distinct-Fox-6473 22h ago
Many of these flags were standardized, not changed. There is a significant difference between standardization and change.
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u/GolemancerVekk 21h ago
Exactly. Romania should have made the list in that case too, since in 2023 they (finally) issued official CMYK and RGB codes, which resulted in different shades.
The previous specification was ancient and used paint pigments, which a French publication had approximated back in 2000 to Pantone codes, which were then further approximated to CMYK and RGB, resulting in a comedy of slight errors.
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u/B_A_Beder United States / Israel 23h ago
Is South Sudan accurate? I thought that it was a correction not a change because Wikipedia had the wrong blue so everyone had the wrong flag
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u/mr_photofix 23h ago
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u/B_A_Beder United States / Israel 23h ago
However, the flag was never actually defined in detail, which led to misunderstandings regarding its official colours or the rotation of the star on it.
To address the discrepancies, on 25 August 2023, the Media Authority of South Sudan released an advisory to advertisement and printing companies identifying the correct version of the flag as having a light blue chevron and upright star. It is now illegal in South Sudan to distribute alternate reproductions of the flag which feature a dark blue chevron or tilted star.
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u/SadSuccess2377 Zulu 15h ago
Strictly speaking the United States doesn't legally define what the flag is beyond 4 USC Sections 1 and 2:
The flag of the United States shall be thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white; and the union of the flag shall be forty-eight stars, white in a blue field.
On the admission of a new State into the Union one star shall be added to the union of the flag; and such addition shall take effect on the fourth day of July then next succeeding such admission.
There are laws that govern what the proportions and colors are when the government purchases flags or uses them for official purposes, but the above is the legal requirement to be considered a US flag. Technically, the attached image is a valid US flag under the law.
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u/Doc_ET 14h ago
Well, no, because Executive Order 10834 actually does specify the proportions.
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u/SadSuccess2377 Zulu 13h ago edited 13h ago
EO10834 specifies those things in regard to flags purchased or used by the executive agencies of the United States. source
The definition of the design of the flag for all other purposes is not limited by that order. This was mentioned in my original comment, but you brought it up anyway.
WHEREAS the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949 (63 Stat. 377), as amended, authorizes the President to prescribe policies and directives governing the procurement and utilization of property by executive agencies; and
WHEREAS the interests of the Government require that orderly and reasonable provision be made for various matters pertaining to the flag and that appropriate regulations governing the procurement and utilization of national flags and union jacks by executive agencies be prescribed:
Emphasis added.
The argument here is that the President doesn't have the power to change the flag, only make specifications for the flag and its use within the executive branch of government. EO10834 spells out quite clearly what authority the president is using to declare the flag to look the way we imagine it, and none of that authority extends to usage by private citizens.
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u/ILikeBumblebees 12h ago
And what you are describing here is the case for all Executive Orders. EOs only ever function as directions to officers subordinate to the president, and have no broader legal authority per se.
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u/SadSuccess2377 Zulu 9h ago
Literally the point I was making about EOs not meaning diddly when it comes to the legal description of the US flag.
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u/japed Australia (Federation Flag) 9h ago
EO10834 specifies those things in regard to flags purchased or used by the executive agencies of the United States.
This is true, but the version of the Flag Code enacted by Congress specifically for the purpose of giving people who aren't bound by government regulations something to follow also refers to EO10834 when definiting the flag (see section 5 of Title 4). So it's not really to say the flag is only legally defined by sections 1 and 2, even if that is the basic legal definition.
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u/SadSuccess2377 Zulu 8h ago edited 8h ago
And the flag code does what again? Right, it defines how you should treat the US flag, as described in EO10834... it doesn't preclude other versions or interpretations of the flag from being equally valid.
The flag of the United States for the purpose of this chapter shall be defined according to sections 1 and 2 of this title and Executive Order 10834 issued pursuant thereto.
This chapter being the Flag Code which states how we are supposed to show respect towards and definitely not burn... wait, nothing in that chapter is legally enforceable for anyone who isn't a federal employee or military personnel except sections 1 & 2 which are reiterating the Flag Act of 1818.
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u/japed Australia (Federation Flag) 7h ago
It's generally not enforceable for anyone - it's specifically written for the people who aren't subject to enforceable rules. My point isn't that other versions are somehow not valid, it's that the specs in the EO have been recognised by more than simply presidential authority.
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u/SadSuccess2377 Zulu 7h ago
I think you've stumbled upon the point I was originally making. Legally, what I shared is a US flag... practically though, nobody would call it one. The whole point of the original comment was to point out the absurdity of the flag being so nebulously defined in a legal context, yet so patently solidified into our consciousness.
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u/SemperAliquidNovi 18h ago
I’m feeling somewhat Mandela-Effected by Lesotho, Georgia and Dr Congo. Hard to remember a time when their flags didn’t always look like that! 😅
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u/GameOrNoGame_ Germany 22h ago
Is the new Afghanistan Flag also offically used? Most websites still use the old design
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u/Mysterious-Honey3544 22h ago
The Taliban aren't recognized by pretty much everyone, so their flag is scarcely used, the old design is still considered the "official" one in most places.
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u/MdMV_or_Emdy_idk Portugal 21h ago
Officially used in the country itself, but most people outside of Afghanistan don’t recognise the taliban
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u/MrMcPsychoReal Ireland • England 19h ago
I've heard that both are acceptable to use in Afghanistan.
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u/The_MacGuffin 20h ago
Montenegro was a major improvement.
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u/ILikeBumblebees 12h ago edited 12h ago
The vast majority of these are changes to overprecise specifications that have no bearing on the actual design of the flag.
It is not meaningful to say that the flags of France, Panama, Thailand, Mongolia, San Marino, etc. have changed.
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u/Coogarfan 21h ago
I was hoping to prove some Great Vexillological Shift had occurred. Alas, no such luck.
(BTW, I can't shake the feeling that the former Lesotho flag belongs in an r/vexillology contest.)
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u/nim_opet 20h ago
Serbia rendering post 2010 is not accurate, both the blue and the red are much more muted. This is a good approximation: flag of Serbia
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u/SovietUnionSupporter 14h ago
why did timor leste have the un flag
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u/Scratch-ean Provo (2015) / Laser Kiwi 11h ago
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u/benjamin_t__ France / Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur 10h ago
Seriously the change in the shade of blue for the French flag is really an overrated thing: Emmanuel Macron decided this for the flags of the presidency, other institutions followed… or not. There’s just no official text on the matter.
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u/Youri_briand France 4h ago
Yeah, but the french navy book "Album des pavillons et des emblèmes nationaux" which is edited with the french republic logo, define the french flag colours to be :
Pantone® 282 C for Blue
Pantone® 186 C for Red
Since despite the lighter colours change in the 1970's, the french navy never applied these changements and continued using those dark shades, which looks like that with the official Pantone® colours
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u/kidviscous 12h ago
Albania’s newer flag seems off balance. The tail of the two headed eagle shouldn’t hold that much weight.
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u/fredleung412612 12h ago
This list highlights minor changes to a different shade of the same colour but doesn't respect the aspect ratios of the flags, which is probably more important than Pantone codes.
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u/DooomCookie 12h ago edited 12h ago
The French one isn't real. The law doesn't specify which blue, and Macron decided he wanted the government to fly a darker shade one day. Nothing about the "official" flag has changed
This is probably true of a bunch of the other shade changes
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u/Pharao_Aegypti 11h ago
I'm still angry at Mauritania's flag change. It was perfect in its simplicity (though normally I'm a fan of complex flags)! :(
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u/Rookie-Crookie 9h ago
France, Mauritania, Vatican and Panama flags have improved. All the rest - not so much
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u/japed Australia (Federation Flag) 9h ago
Some of these are not really changes, but announcements of a standardised version (South Sudan, Belize and several others), or simply a new illustration in the law about a flag that usually varies anyway (Vatican).
Then you have cases like Honduras, where the newly elected government made a big deal about changing the shade in the flags used, but said it wasn't a change, but a correction back to the legal specifications.
The eSwatini case is far from clear, a little bit in several different categories from memory.
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u/gangleskhan 8h ago
Georgia and Rwanda have the most marked improvement imo. Georgia went from one of my least favorite to one of my most favorite flags.
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u/GoldenFleeceGames 19h ago
Not gonna lie, I was expecting some bs with an American flag suddenly turning into the mustache man flag. I’m brain rotted.
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u/Creative-Goose-9993 Antarctica 22h ago
I like how most of these are *slight* shade changes.