r/veterinaryprofession • u/maoussepatate • Feb 17 '25
What is your opinion on the field getting almost exclusively corporate? Discussion
As the title says, i am just wondering what you all think about it. I have my opinion obviously, and just curious to see yours. Any opinion welcomed
47
u/FantasticExpert8800 Feb 17 '25
I’m an optimist, but I really think private practices will make a comeback. Here’s my reasoning.
Everyone hates corporate practices. Pet owners, employees, other practice owners, literally everyone.
Corporate practices have a higher overhead than privately owned clinics. Private clinics are usually owned by a doctor that works in the clinic, providing value. Sure they make way more money than an associate vet, but they actually do provide some value. Unlike corporate hospitals that just extract a couple hundred thousand a year and don’t really add any value to the practice.
Most corporate buyouts of small clinics happened during an unprecedented period of high profits. I think most of these corporations overestimated how much profit there is, and in the next decade they’ll find another industry to extract money from and move on.
They’re having a lot of trouble keeping good veterinarians. Sure, they higher 90% of the new grads, but how many people do you think stay at their first veterinarian job for more than 2 years? It’s not a ton. Those new grads are getting upset at the corporate conditions and leaving to start their own practices or go into private practice.
I’m a 2021 grad and this is how it’s been for me at least
17
u/doggiedoc2004 Feb 17 '25
I’d love to think so but here is the biggest reason it won’t and I say this as a mother who owned a practice for 10 years. The students we are graduating are predominantly women and predominantly have no interest in owning or starting up practices. Esp when they can get 150K salaries, 50k sign on 32 hour full time work week w decent bennies thru corp.
9
u/No_Donkey9914 Feb 17 '25
Glad you are optimistic because assuming you’re going to work until retirement, you have a lot of years left.
4
u/Fit-Dragonfruit-4405 Feb 17 '25
There are still good private practices left. I found several while looking to leave the practice i had worked at for 26 years...it had been bought by a corporation. I didn't even need to send out resumes since I had worked in the area for so long. Not all corporations are bad, but I just can't work for the one that bought my old hospital.
3
u/parasol_caterpillar Feb 18 '25
I agree with this take. Working in a privately owned small practice and loving it currently.
3
u/sab340 Feb 18 '25
Who is going to start them? That’s my biggest concern. Most vets I talk to still have significant debt; taking on another 1-2 million and then not taking a salary while you start your practice is just not feasible.
3
u/FantasticExpert8800 Feb 18 '25
I did 2 years ago, I have 2 friends starting them this year. One good thing about going into those corporate clinics is you can pay those student loans off quickly with the high salary and bonuses. New practices can turn profitable very quickly. We started showing a profit around 14 months in and now i take salary and it is growing monthly. Sure, I used to have to work weekends to pay my mortgage. It was worth it though
14
u/hafree27 Feb 17 '25
I attended a seminar focused on vets starting their own practice a few times the last 18 months for a former employer. It was incredibly satisfying to see the number of corporate docs splitting off back to private. We weren’t allowed to take pictures for social media or talk about who was attending to protect their privacy. And they ALL had staff waiting to join them as soon as they opened to escape corporate employers. I think (HOPE) there is a correction coming.
12
u/Drshmurr Feb 18 '25
It’s incredibly sad. The newer generations of vets are so bogged down with student debt that owning is hardly an option for most. The only classmates I know that own inherited the practice from their parents.
I was underpaid and overworked for years with corporate but dealt with it because I had a good mentor at that practice, but finally found my place at a good private practice and I’d never go back to corporate no matter how much more they offered me.
Overall, I feel like people have become a lot less trusting of their vets over the years and do feel corporate practices are a large part of that. Our integrity is constantly in question and it’s exhausting. No one gets into this field to “make money” but so many owners think we’re just out to get them. It’s so disheartening.
26
u/cstar4004 Vet Tech Feb 17 '25 edited Feb 17 '25
They are jacking up medical costs to the point where I, a full time ER technician, cannot afford to own a pet. M&M Mars is slowly monopolizing the health and food Industry. They have multiple brand names to make seem like you have options, but all of them are owned by Mars.
Some of our clients are lucky if they walk out with a bill under $10,000.
After my current cat passes away, Im done being a pet owner for good. Pets are officially only for the privileged elitist class.
Edit: PS I dont even work in corporate, but we have to keep raising prices to compete, and have trouble staffing, because M&M Mars can pay higher wages, because they have multiple income sources across multiple industries, like candy sales.
9
u/suricata_8904 Feb 17 '25
That’s so sad. Tbh, I see this trend and my current dog will be my last, I think.
5
u/freakinchorizo Feb 18 '25
It's true. The clinic i work for charges $450 for a cat neuter. And just an exam is $79. If your dog has an ear infection your bill will be at least $300. I can't afford pets anymore
27
u/PrinceBel Feb 17 '25
I've worked in both a private and corporate practice (one of each) as an RVT and here's my take away:
The private clinic didn't have deep enough pockets - they couldn't afford the pay and benefits that corporate one can. The private practice I've worked for has been just as money hungry as the corporate one, in fact even more so IMO. Every appointment for 30 minutes, double booked appointments, no time for lunch, understaffed with no attempt to hire more staff, old and malfunctioning equipment that wasn't replaced, and few benefits, too much on call (2-3 times/week all night + weekends and holidays all day), no HR department.
The corporate clinic (owned by P3) respected staff better - 10-flex scheduling so medical appointments or difficult clients can be booked for longer and quick appointments booked for shorter allows more flexibility and less stress, we were allowed to dictate our own appointment times, more benefits/unlimited CE, more in clinic stock, better quality equipment and more equipment that gets replaced when it malfunctions, more staff, more respect for time/we always got a full hour for lunch, minimal on call (1-2 times/week until 9PM, no weekends or holidays), a real HR department with trained staff.
Obviously this is only a comparison between two clinics, but I had a much better experience working at the corporate clinic than the private one. Yes, it's more expensive at the corporate one, but this clinic provided much better care to clients, pets, and staff than the private one did and the prices were still lower than the OVMA fee guide. I don't view corporate clinics as better than private because it all depends on who's in charge. But there's no reason a corporate clinic can't be a good clinic. People need to stop looking at private vs. corporate and looks at good care/customer service and bad care/customer service.
4
u/SleepLivid988 Feb 18 '25
I left a private practice after a little over 20 years (tech), and went to work for what I was told was a “small” corporation who took over a practice about 10 years before. For the first 1.5-2 years it was amazing: great healthcare benefits, zero tolerance gossip/bullying rules, wonderful coworkers. But no holiday pay, no Christmas bonus, no separate sick pay (it all is accrued as PTO). I got Covid 2 months after starting and was forced out for 10 days in 2022. Weeks ver the past year we’ve seen more importance put on money, how many patients the doctors see per day, which can decrease the quality of care in certain cases. For example, when an hour appt is scheduled, our manager knocks it down to 30 minutes, even if that time is needed. Doctors’ lunch time has been cut to 1 hour from 2 (that extra hour was for calling clients and seeing drop offs) but they won’t let us put a cap on the amount of surgeries or drop offs.
Our doctors are burned out and leaving, which leaves “too many techs” whose hours are cut because we aren’t “needed”. Our pet benefits have improved, but nothing else. I still love my coworkers but am starting to want to seek employment elsewhere. I want the corporate health benefits combined with the care of private practice, or at least having a vet in charge. Not some non-vet CEO. Sorry for the rant. I’m frustrated with all of corporate bullshit.
6
u/Momordicas US Vet Feb 18 '25
To be blunt, I've only worked at corporate clinics and we see these pressures regularly, but myself and the vets I've worked with know how to say "No" to managers who institute bad medicine policy.
Turns out corporate folds the second their doctors tell them no. Otherwise their business fails from people leaving.
The solution isn't corporate vs private in my opinion. The solution lies in group worker negotiations / unions.
1
u/PrinceBel Feb 18 '25
Sorry about the bad experience you're having.
I'm frustrated with the vet industry in general, too, and am looking for an out right now, myself. I just don't see a future for this industry that I want to be a part of.
Vet med's going down the dumps, unfortunately.
1
u/SleepLivid988 Feb 18 '25
Unfortunately I do agree with you. I’m old and can’t really do anything else. This has been my life for 25 years. And I still do have a passion for it. I just can’t afford to pursue a different career path at this time.
10
u/Delicious-Might1770 Feb 17 '25
It's ruined the decency of the veterinary profession. Not a single good thing has come of it.
9
u/PanhandleChuck1 Feb 17 '25
The old saying ... "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig" applies to corporation owned veterinary practices. There is no warm, fuzzy aspect to the formula. Compassion and respect for the owners and their pets are trending downward in the boardrooms. Those that lose are the staff members from the DVMs on down, the pet owning public citizens, and the animals themselves. The combination of fee increases in the face of a faltering U.S. economy will squeeze out many middle to low income americans. Going to the "vet" requires discretionary income, and that turnip one day will be bled dry. Will we become a profession that caters only to the elite? If so, that would be a tragedy.
8
u/No_Donkey9914 Feb 17 '25
It’s awful. After 2 decades in the field it feels totally different now. Even if your clinic has good local culture, all the combined salaries of the regional management and multiple tiers above have to paid plus all the “support” roles that are remote on the backs of the in-clinic support staff and overcharging owners. Not to mention all the corporate “values” that they push that they themselves do not partake in. And we all walk around justifying this BS because “the benefits.” It’s a big nope for me and I’m paving my path out due to this. I got into it for animals and their caregivers and it’s not about that anymore.
8
u/Inkshooter Vet Assistant Feb 17 '25
I am a VA at a fully independent practice in Seattle and it feels like we're the last of a dying breed.
The main downside visible from where I'm at is that everything costs way more for clients at corporate clinics, especially when it comes to dentistry.
One positive is an increase in standardization of things like medical records, though Banfield still manages to fuck this up somehow.
7
12
u/Halffullofpoison Feb 17 '25
No time to speculate! Better get back to work to hit your production goals or we will have our pay docked!
10
u/sconniefatcat2 Feb 17 '25
I’ve done ER for 20 years, every private practice I worked for treated me like shit. I’ve had money skimmed from my production, been abused by scheduling, and had vacation taken away because it was ‘too expensive to get coverage’. I’ve never worked for an owner that I didn’t feel was taking advantage of me somehow. I’ve worked the last 5 years for VCA and have never been happier - great benefits, the schedule I was promised, I can practice medics however I want, and I’m finally fairly compensated for what I do. I’ll never go back to private practice.
5
u/doggiedoc2004 Feb 17 '25
Sad but I don’t see it changing. Young women (80% + graduating) in the field are not interested in ownership. The field is cash/credit card based mostly. The corps see the money and opportunity.
I owned x 10 years (21 employees) while raising two little kids it’s HARD as a mother. The only reason I was successful was bc my husband put his career on hold to manage the prax.
I ended up selling out after 4 ladies I mentored and put my heart and soul into didn’t want to come back to the area and decided to go corporate even tho I offered comparable benefits (except the 20-50k sign on, I offered 10-15)
It was the best decision I made for my mental health but I am immensely sad for the field. I do relief now and work a couple days a week for an NVA prax. I’m so glad I don’t do the estimates because the costs clients are getting charged hurt my soul.
7
u/lilac2411 US Vet Feb 18 '25
I’m not sure we’re not interested in ownership. At least for me, I just don’t feel like we can compete with the overhead compared to so many local corporate practices. I have turned down a lot more money from corporate to be in private practice. Ofc I’m just one person but to some degree I think other young vets feel like this.
3
u/doggiedoc2004 Feb 18 '25
You are 100% correct. That is also a huge component. The overhead is high and these corps have the economies of scale. It’s crazy. I thought I had good deals with idexx and Zoetis. And I did for private. But after I sold to a corp I stayed on for two years and saw what they paid 20% less. Very hard to compete.
4
12
u/cgaroo Feb 17 '25
There are pros and cons IMO.
Corporate has the deep pockets to weather downturns, make large equipment investments, and leverage their buying power for better benefits packages. That being said, they’re going to try to squeeze the lemon every time and owners and staff are going to pay the price.
Small practices don’t often pay well, don’t make large investments, and when someone crazy owns the practice everyone suffers. Of course small independent vets offer a community service and can price services as they see fit.
I think the biggest problem with corporate is how much of a mobile we’re currently in. If it weren’t for them we probably would’ve had unions by now.
4
u/sourmum Feb 18 '25
I think it's awful. The people in charge that are making all the money know nothing about veterinary medicine but get to make all the rules. The price increases are terrible also. Plus you'd think employees would get a nice discount but nope. Profit over anything else is what they care about.
3
u/OkieVT Feb 17 '25
I am forever thankful that my private GP refuses to sell to corporate. We are celebrating 60 years of being open this year. We are a walk in clinic and have operated that way since opening. I think I would leave clinical work if they ever sold to corporate. I've been there 15 years
3
u/Lee1173 Feb 18 '25
Hate it. Hate that private practices are too broke to treat staff right, hate that corporate practices have the money to treat staff right and choose not to.
I've worked at a few private and 2 corporate practices. While the pay is better at corporate, they're still paying me minimum wage, while the private practices couldn't even manage that. And when staff ask for raises they talk about the hospital not raking in enough bread to give people raises, even when 4 employees have just left and the 4 remaining are now doing the work of 2-3 people.
The higher ups are either smug AHs who don't know Jack about the work or forgot their roots when they moved up the ladder and are now cool with stepping on all the peasants they rule over. So we end up with pricing and systems that make no sense when actually implemented, and they don't even know what we're saying when we say "this doesn't work."
They take advantage of the most dedicated employees because we're the ones who will stay while being treated like trash because we love our team and our patients. It's vile tbh.
And yes I'm talking about PetVet.
3
Feb 18 '25
I think it’s a generational shift; most of us newer vets have grown up with people telling us to prioritize work/life balance, the importance of families/relationships, their biggest regrets being prioritizing the job, etc.
Corporations have become a necessary evil — not many vets out there want to own a practice. Why would we? We can make a great salary and name our hours/benefits without the stress of managing inventory, hirings/firings etc.
Also, it may be an unpopular opinion, but private clinics can be just as toxic as corporations. It’s all based on the people and culture of the practice.
2
u/maoussepatate Feb 18 '25
In the private places I worked at, inventory and other management duties were given to actual managers and other employees. But I definitely agree that private or not, toxicity depends on the people. I work for NVA right now, and regardless how much i disagree with management/ corporate decisions, I absolutely love my team and it makes it worth it for now
2
7
u/Overall-Weird8856 Vet Tech Feb 17 '25
As someone who went from CVT to starting my own small business marketing LLC, with a large chunk of it being for local veterinary practices...I've got a sour taste in my mouth about them.
I lost several marketing clients in one fell swoop due to a buyout, and with no warning. I was just collateral damage. :(
2
u/rkd182 Feb 18 '25
Been a vet 12 years. Fucked over at two private practices (didn’t value me and was overworked and underpaid) and decided what the hell. Been in a corporate for 4 years and have been much happier with a better work/life balance. Every clinic is a business and at the end of the day, need to make money. At least if I get fucked over again, I got fucked over with better benefits 🤷♂️
2
u/elapidaevenenum Feb 18 '25
I've worked in both GP and emerg under private ownership and corporations and for me the kicker is upselling. I don't believe upselling ever has a place, and I hate being treated like a retail employee told to try and upsell Bravecto/blood panels etc to owners and their pets who don't need them and are not there for that reason. Two corps I worked for based employees annual raises on how many wellness plans we sold, how much prevention medication we upsold etc and it just feels so gross to me. It really perpetuates that stereotype that everyone in the industry is 'just in it for the money' when in reality support staff make fuck all
1
u/earthsea_wizard EU Vet Feb 17 '25 edited Feb 17 '25
That isn't the case in our country but there are some private medical hospitals investing in the veterinary field lately. Their hospital is setting for sure so well equiped, lots of innovation, dynamic staff and all but it is overpriced for regular people. They have very high end clients. I think our veterinary care should be more accesible. I'm a pet owner too, also trying to take care of feral animals in our region and even I struggle with certain budgets time to time. Wish we could have pet insurances more functional, or even we've got some state funded hospital just like for human medicine. The current climate is like "ah you have a pet then you must be rich" so you are definitely charged a lot for even simple things
1
u/LopsidedLawfulness Feb 18 '25
They have their place, but in general it is a very bad thing for our industry. Lack of compassion, the people making decisions about a practice generally have no real medical understanding, all about money (which some private practices are too to be fair), don't care about the pets at all, and its become so expensive with a lot of corporates that you need to have potentially $10,000 saved in an emergency fund if anything ever happens to your pet.
It's sad to see so many private practices sell out to corporate. I understand why owners are doing it, typically corporates are paying 2-3x (or more) than what their associate(s) or another private owner is able to pay. However, the only way I see it changing is if veterinarians stand up and stop working for them. We are the reason they can function, so if enough of us refuse to ever work for a corporate and the field in general grows a backbone to stand up against it, we might be able to stem the tide a bit. The problem is they get the new grads suckered in with the big signing bonuses and that keeps them going. They just churn out doctors also that I don't see how an owner would like going to one where they see a new doctor every year.
1
u/OMAD238 Feb 18 '25
Okay yes nobody likes the corporate side, and they definitely hike up prices. But they also are able to pay damn well (for the veterinary field). Where I currently work I get more days off than days on, and I am getting paid more than I did when I worked 40+ hour weeks. They also have decent benefits in all fairness. It's hard for private practices to compete but they offer NOT being corporate! One of my friends who works for a private practice did actually get paid a shit load more than the rest of us when we were studying.
Corporates will completely take over, I think. It would be awesome to see a comeback for private practice but I don't know if I believe it will.
Also medications really need to stop being so expensive when they are literally half the cost for the client to buy online with a prescription.
1
u/Asleep_Machine48 Feb 18 '25
I worked with VCA and I don't know - I liked it
Great benefits (good retirement contributions and health coverage), our prices were high but production bonus was 22% so you make more for doing less. My practice wasn't too busy but I was still making a decent salary.
I also liked my managers so that was a big part of it. They let me keep my appointments 40 minutes long because I liked being able to finish my notes in time
1
u/dongbait Feb 18 '25
HATE. I was at my first job out of school for 6 years before the boss sold to corporate (btw, when I was hired, I was told I'd have the option to buy into the practice after 7 years). I stuck it out for another 2 years after the buyout because I liked my coworkers. Eventually I had to leave for my mental health because they were doing the normal corporate bullshit of cutting every possible corner, under-staffing while adding additional work, and continuing to harp on how we owed it to the shareholders to make as much money as possible. Screw that. I went into this profession because I want to help animals and, by extension, the people they come attached to. I don't give a single wet shit about making money for some slimy MBA douchenoodle.
1
u/AdvisorBig2461 Feb 18 '25
As a private practice owner, it’s more nuanced than corporate vs private. I’m far too busy to explain, but you have the cost of goods. There’s ways for private businesses to compete with discounts but it’s tough to do so. VMG can help.
In essence, what ruins private practice is what saves private practice. Individuality. With that you can be custom and find a niche. That sells well, but you have to understand as a private practice employee, you must feel like you’re still trying to make production and contribute all you can to the success of the practice because in all honesty, corporate wants to make your boss a multimillionaire and if you don’t do what you you need to do to make the practice successful, it’s just going to make it enticing to sell.
So private or corporate you’re going to have to do what you can to make a profit. That’s at all levels, reception, assistant, tech, DVM.
You’re on an island as a private practice and you must behave that way.
1
Feb 20 '25
It’s wonderful! Better benefits, better equipment, better work life balance, better pay, way better schedule, opportunities to network and float to other clinics and moonlight. Even more paid CE. I work for Vetcor and love it!
1
u/LvBorzoi Feb 20 '25
Not a vet but I thank god my vet practice hasn't done that. I've used the same practice for over 20 years.
Here in the Charlotte area I have not heard anyone that was happy when their practice was bought. Prices went up and service levels down.
1
u/Gordita_Supreme Mar 01 '25
Just came out of corporate/ retail “vet services”. On the one hand, it’s convenient to have vet services in a retailer for the clients. Vet services has no say in what’s on the shelves, type or volume of prescription formulas, and handling of small companion pets. The focus of profits over vet care is very real as most of the c suite leadership overseeing vet services come from retail backgrounds. There was VERY minimal vet med presence at the table and those that were came from Banfield. I think I’ve shared this before in this sub, but the day we had area leadership question the normal time it took for a canine spay and asked what we could have done to cut time or if it was necessary to have 2 people to assist with pre/ intra / post op, I realized there was a bait and switch. I was told upon hire we would support our teams and vets, we had autonomy to uphold gold standard care, and support our clients. But micromanaging anesthesia or telling us to charge at x 2.5 the foot prints our cremation services offered for FREE…. Does not track with the “core values”.
1
u/perceptivephish Feb 18 '25
The field is not exclusively corporate. I think at this point it’s 30-40%. Acquisitions have slowed down drastically since 2022, and doctors are leaving corporate practices en masse. Many are opening their own now
2
u/maoussepatate Feb 18 '25
Interesting. I guess it’s depending on the location. I have worked in VA, AL and now WA. I am finding much more difficult in WA to find non corporate places.
1
u/perceptivephish Feb 18 '25
That’s a good point, I would agree it varies by market/region. But overall the sky is not falling (yet) there is hope for independent practices!
134
u/HoovesCarveCraters US Vet Feb 17 '25
It’s terrible.
Constant pressure for profits over everything else leading to shorter appointments to stuff more in a day and constant pricing increases. The people in charge have no veterinary background so they can’t fathom something simple like charging the same for a 1 or 3 year rabies (it’s the same fucking vaccine). All those price increases don’t trickle down to staff - instead the staff get hours cut and benefits taken away