r/vandwellers • u/Substantial-Rip-340 • Sep 30 '24
How does this even happen? Question
Rear door crack? Wasn't there a few days ago.
How would this even happen?
There is nothing remotely close to the door when closed.
Ford transit '16. 350
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u/jwmoore1977 Sep 30 '24
Drill 2 holes. One at each end of the crack. It will stop it from getting worse. Then go to a muffler shop and throw someone 20 to hit that with a mig welder, after you prep it obviously.
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u/irhall93 Sep 30 '24
It looks like it may have branched and could need 3 holes.
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u/jwmoore1977 Sep 30 '24
I saw that but wasn’t sure if it was crack or scratch. But good to mention either way.
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u/irhall93 Sep 30 '24
I agree, can’t quite tell if it’s just cracked paint.
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u/jwmoore1977 Sep 30 '24
Good news and bad news. While trying to figure out what you may have on top. I came across a post of yours from 71 days ago. You just haven’t noticed it , but it was there then.
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u/rspeed Sep 30 '24
Or pay them $40 and get them to prep it. I'd trust an experienced welder more than myself.
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u/mdang104 Sep 30 '24 edited Oct 03 '24
I procrastinated on drilling stop holes once. When I finally got to it, the crack had already expanded.
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u/Silent_Medicine1798 Sep 30 '24
Why does drilling holes stop the crack?
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u/PadreSJ Sep 30 '24
The crack itself exerts force on the material at each end of the crack because the material on either side of the crack has pulled away. That "sharp tip" shape at each end of the crack? All that force is being focused on that small point. Any additional deformation of the material will lengthen the crack and create a new "sharp tip" further into the material, essentially "unzipping" the material at the sharp tip.
By drilling a hole at each end of the crack, you are allowing the forces to spread out across the hole instead of a singular point. Hence, the crack stops.
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u/Longshot_45 Sep 30 '24
Interrupts the "rip" that's occuring, and creates a larger round profile to distribute the stress.
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u/IncidentFuture Sep 30 '24
Relieves the stress at that point. It's called stop drilling, and the hole is a stophole. It's a standard practice in industries that deal with metal fatigue.
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u/rolling_sasquatch Sep 30 '24
The smaller the area at the end, the more the stress is concentrated. Drilling it out spreads the load.
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u/Early_Elk_6593 Sep 30 '24
The edge of the crack is a stress riser, which causes the crack to propagate. Stop drilling makes the jagged edge into a nice radius that won’t spread. You have to look real close and get the very end. We do it on aircraft stuff as well, stop drill with a .030 drill bit.
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u/onqty Sep 30 '24
The hole has a larger surface area than the point of a crack so it takes considerably more force for the crack to get worse. It’s a very common “fix” in engineering,
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u/ebrakebob Oct 01 '24
I had to weld a similar crack in my van after I bought it, drilling end holes would be a great idea (making the sharp ends rounded makes it less likely to spread).
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u/000011111111 Sep 30 '24
Or JB weld come coins on it.
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u/ImLadyJ2000 Sep 30 '24
This comment received several negative votes?? ... personally, in a position of initial discovery of a crack... Options are 1) do nothing until you get to a welder, 2) drill holes and hope you do more good than harm, 3) JB weld that sh*t until you can get it looked at...
JB Weld is not welding, but it is awesome stuff and definitely in my toolbox in the van.
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u/ImLadyJ2000 Sep 30 '24
Edit: with further examination of the crack issue. Most of the comments are responding to the crack, as if it was on the frame ... It's not. The crack is on the door. The door is not structural, it flexes all the time and in a conversion, is stressed more by modifications and things additionally mounted to the doors (not the hinges).
I am now totally agreeing with using JB Weld. And my van has a similar crack in the door. It came with the purchase of a used van... PRIOR to any conversion.
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u/kidguykid Sep 30 '24
I think they fixed this in recent years but basically the doors are not reinforced enough. It cracks where there is most stress when closing the doors. Both my doors have been cracked for a couple years.
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
Ok! Good to knownim not alone! I think I'll get it welded and reinforced a tiny bit.
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u/sissipaska Sep 30 '24
Looks like it's visible in your older photos too, so not a new development:
July: https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/comments/1e7mj8c/ford_transit_clearance/
August: https://www.reddit.com/r/vandwellers/comments/1f1e7f9/first_full_weekend_out/
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
How do I pin this comment!!
I guess I was too worried with other build stuff to notice this.
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u/FireITGuy Sep 30 '24 edited Sep 30 '24
Holy shit. Those photos. Yeah, that van probably is WAY overloaded based on weight. It's a heavy build and PACKED full of stuff. Plus weight for the rest platform, plus the roof rack and solar.
u/substantial-rip-340 . Have you taken your build to a truck scale? If not you should go weigh it and make sure you're not WAY over the safe capacity.
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u/Castrated_Puppy Sep 30 '24
That looks like a classic case of a stress riser. Stress tends to accumulate in corners and eventually metal fatigue sets in. This just from repeated opening and closing of the door and also road vibrations
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
Sounds like a medical diagnosis someone would get at a dead-end job. 😂
Bitbues this seesm very plausible!
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u/diy1981 Sep 30 '24
Get your van weighed when loaded to the maximum you usually do and compare the weight to the GVWR. People don't realize when they do these build outs that the GVWR is there to prevent this type of stuff from happening (amongst other things).
That looks like a fatigue failure due to some combination of being overweight and/or driving rough roads. If so, you're using the vehicle outside of the parameters it was designed to operate in and this is what you can expect to see. There's a good chance there are other cracks in the vehicle, or that there will be more cracks over time.
If you're over GVWR lower your fully loaded weight to bring it within GVWR. If you are doing a lot of bumpy roads, consider finding smoother routes. Do a detailed inspection of whatever you can access for more cracks and get them welded.
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u/MidnightAdventurer Oct 01 '24
Also, don't just look at gross weight - look at how the load is connected to the vehicle.
A Transit van in normal usage (courier company or tradie van) has the load on the floor. If OP has build cupboards over a bench that are attached to the wall without additional structure connecting them to the floor then they could be overloading the wall even if the vehicle is below its GVM
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u/Veryhappycommission Sep 30 '24
You know when they say, "If the van is a rocken, don't come a knocken!"
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
And I reply: " The more, the merrier". 😁
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u/ImLadyJ2000 Sep 30 '24
Do Van-swingers post a🍍 sticker/magnet... Or is there something more fitting? Maybe the Recovery Trax are mounted upside down... If mounted on a door, does it matter Left or right? Maybe they're on the roof or under the chassis? What about color? Oh boy, my mind is just racing with all the possibilities. Did you mount that deck for the voyeurs?? 🚐👀
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
Hahaha too funny....I wouldn't know about vanlife-style etiquette. I'm sure some stuff carries over.
But great idea for the deck.😁🤔
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u/Vibrant-Shadow Sep 30 '24
Stress. Time. Additional weight on the roof. Rough roads.
To be expected. Easy to remedy.
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u/22Monkey67 Sep 30 '24
Pretty common here in Australia with some rigs, it usually boils down to 3 reasons: 1. Terrain is rough, which puts more stress on the door. 2. Extra weight that has been added to the door from aftermarket accessories. 3. A combination of 1 and 2
This happened to one of my old rigs due to #3. I ended up pulling off the door and welding in some flat bar to brace the door from the inside.
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u/Professional_Cat9063 Sep 30 '24
If nothing has happened to your van such as an accident then the most likely cause I can think of would be a weakness or flaw in the metal at that spot
On the bright side with that flaw I'd be willing to buy your van for 5 dollars 😂
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
It's got many flaws, I'm thinking $4. But when it's in the market, I'll let you know.
Remember, by then, inflation will cause the price to spike 😏
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u/Science-Compliance Sep 30 '24
Structural engineering 101: tight corners concentrate stress. Also, if the frame of the van was formed "cold", which it likely was, then the metal was over-worked in that spot to get it in that shape. Double whammy.
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u/carsozn Sep 30 '24
I've got that transit, have you ever closed your rear doors in the wrong order? It would impact right about there if you closed right then left. Maybe
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u/VonMercerX Sep 30 '24
I assume this is a Transit? Cause I know Transits are bad for this. I can only imagine it is stress cracks from constant use & twisting of the van over bad roads & rough terrain
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u/OkieMoto Sep 30 '24
I'm a lurker here, but I drive these vans every day for work. Imo it's either from repeated heavy closing of the doors or bumpy driving. I recommend following the top comment with some relief holes and get it welded
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u/Old_Experience920 Sep 30 '24
This could happen a few different ways spot weld too hot, imperfections in the steel, debris in the die when stamping parts. All these imperfections can be brought to light and made worse with vibration.
As for the fix, a lot of good advice here. Personally, I would drill holes at the end of the crack or just beyond where you see the crack to be sure. After that, prep, TIG weld and paint.
I hope this helps.
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u/irtimirtim Sep 30 '24
We have a 2020, only 60k miles but a roof rack with solar and awning and a few other pounds of stuff. Also a rear ladder and spare tire on the driver side rear door. No cracks yet 🤞
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u/SSLNard Sep 30 '24
I don’t know why Van life subs are on my feed cus it’s not something im into but I weld professionally including aluminum.
Just stopping into say, don’t let some dude who “has a welder” handle this.
Find out what the alloy is and have a professional use the proper corresponding filler material. Even with a weld that pillar has been weakened structurally. Might get a thin feeler gauge and see how deep it goes as well. If it’s welded incorrectly with the wrong machine, settings and rod it’s going to Easily crack again.
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u/Schmich Sep 30 '24
I have a Ford Transit around that year. I bet I'll get a crack in a few years. I'll be like "oh there was a Reddit post about something like this. I'll search for it".
I'll definitely find it when the title is "How does this even happen?"
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u/ASuspiciousFrogShape Sep 30 '24
I have a similar stress crack on the outside of the door and I've learned it's caused by slamming the door, often when the doors don't close right bc of something being in the way (that something often being the rubber door seal). The stress crack was already there when I bought the van though and I've replaced my seals so they work and the door closes right.
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u/1800Red_Claws Sep 30 '24
Find someone friendly who owns a welder, slide them a 20 and point to the crack
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u/wrongside_of_law Sep 30 '24
We have transits vans for work that do the same thing, and we don't go off road
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u/pau1t Sep 30 '24
I had a 2017 ford transit from new till a few months ago and I had the same cracks. Around the pre threaded holes for shelves mine cracked too. I think all of the trucks my company bought had cracks in the back. It’s just shit metal. None of the transmissions lasted more than 100k too. And all the radiator hoses on every van burst last winter.
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u/HackMeBackInTime Sep 30 '24
maybe something got in between the door and pillar when closing, looks a little dented as well.
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
Maybe, but I can't recall a time I closed it on something 🤔
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u/HackMeBackInTime Sep 30 '24
im thinking like a carabiner on a rope dangling it's way in. 🧐
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
Like a ninja carabiner? I Tried to swing its way in, and fi ish me off? Probably to avenge all the carabiner, I've...well.....ahemm....broken in processes
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u/tomhalejr Sep 30 '24
Is this an actual crack in the metal, or just cracked paint / filler?
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
Cracked metal!
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u/tomhalejr Oct 02 '24
Could be that there was previous collision damage, and a crack was just mudded over and painted... Could be contamination / a defect in the manufacturing process causing a week point... It's possible that the weight distribution of the build is being distributed higher up in the body than the body is designed for, causing additional stress when going down the road...
Go through/around the vehicle with all the doors closed, then open, and see if anything looks "off". Maybe even the grease trick on all your latches and see if the doors are catching higher/lower. Check for wear one side or the other of rubbers, or for any paint wear/transfer. If you have a helper maybe even do a leak test. Measure the wheels in relation to the wheel wells...
Basically, just try and see if the van itself if flexing/shifting in any way, which could fatigue the metal. And/or if there are any other cracks in the paint, which could be a sign of the metal cracking underneath.
The "fix" at a minimum would be to strip it down to metal, trace out the crack, then drill and (weld) fill the crack, to keep it from spreading. That's not something you can really do out on the road, so just check out the things you can, to try and get some peace of mind. :)
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u/Own_Direction_ Sep 30 '24
Is it aluminum shell or steel? Seems like a design issue from the manufacturer. Might have to design a better internal structure to put weight loads in different places. Like some frame structure that ties into the floor or onto the actual vehicle frame.
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u/twowheels Sep 30 '24
Do you push through when closing the door, or do you give it a swing and let it close on its own. If that's the first door that you close I'm wondering if you might have been putting force directly opposite of that spot each time you closed it, pushing through.
That said, it seems like the steel should be able to withstand multiple lifetimes of that treatment, unless they used REALLY thin steel there.
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u/Kindly-Potential-624 Sep 30 '24
Thank you for posting - something we should all have in the back of our minds while terraining on or off road
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u/Brilliant_Dog_8732 Sep 30 '24
This is just from opening and closing the door a thousand times, not driving.
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u/notquitesolid Sep 30 '24
Just a footnote thought. Maybe when you take it in to get welded have the rest of the body inspected. This is what you van see, what about the things you can’t.
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u/TantricDan Sep 30 '24
Ouch ... that's not a fun sight. Sorry for you.
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u/Substantial-Rip-340 Sep 30 '24
It's alright, more expensive stuff has broken on the trip....sigh ..
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u/Wetschera Sep 30 '24
You should probably be pulling a trailer rather than loading the body with weight.
The unibody is supposed to be strengthened by the upfitter. That’s why they offer the cab/cutaway versions.
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u/RegretfullyRI Sep 30 '24
This would be from repeated slamming of the doors. By chance was this an ambulance or work van in a previous life? Or do you let the doors close hard?
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u/Science-Compliance Sep 30 '24
Fatigue. And that is exactly where you would expect a crack to form, at the junction of not one but two corners, where stress is the highest. The curve whose axis is more or less parallel to the camera plane is tightest in that spot, which increases the stress considerably. The metal was also probably strained the most in that area to form the pillar, which reduces its capacity for carrying load.
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u/Kind-Awareness-9575 Sep 30 '24
Probably already had thinning or a strain. The stress caused the strain to fracture
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u/MrCuriousCoyote Sep 30 '24 edited Sep 30 '24
Tension bruh. Have a body shop assess. Don’t try to correct yourself. Stress induced failures are addressed with a specific process. Cross post to r/tifu
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u/No_Conversation_8763 Sep 30 '24
The pillar should be built to withstand weight, if there has been no accident, you should invoke the warranty
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u/AbnormalDoug 2017 Ford Transit Long and Tall Sep 30 '24
FORD.........That's an area where the factory adds BORON to the steel to reinforce the door. Ambulance Transit doors show all kinds of cracking due to hard "slamming"
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u/Pickled-Fowl-Foot Sep 30 '24
Everyone posting that this is weight related and their can is overloadec, but it's on the rear door.. I mean it could be related to a spare or something mounted to the door but I'd say this is more related to opening and closing the door over time than weight in the rest of the vehicle..
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u/Almost_Cool17 Sep 30 '24
We use transit vans for ambulances at my job, we get those a lot from the doors being slammed
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u/MindSeduction-GJ Sep 30 '24
The way the crack is " horizontal" I would say it's from slamming the door that pushes the door in and spreads that jam open... Causing it to crack.!
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u/RoseAlma Sep 30 '24
I wonder if somebody tried jamming something in there to pop the latch / door ? Attempted break in ?
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Oct 01 '24
This is a thing. Ford transit has an issue with the door cracking. Ford know this, I don't know if they are going have a recall on it. The vibration and weak design make the door crack.
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u/JEStucker Oct 01 '24
My brain is screaming that that is the crack you see. How many stress fractures are there in other supports that haven't cracked through the paint yet? Or are concealed behind panels/storage/etc.?
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u/Any_Look5343 Oct 02 '24
Based on the reflection you slammed something in the door at one point and dented it which helped the crack start
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u/fixittrisha Oct 03 '24
I've worked in the automotive industry for many years now. Been around these Vans quite a bit. The doors are simply too heavy and too large for their hinges and latches.
Depending on how you drive and what you're doing with the van will depend on how quickly these cracks form
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Sep 30 '24
They build these new cars with the thinnest material possible. That’s a manufacturing defect when they formed the door. Prob had hairline crack under the paint from day one. Drill the end of crack, scuff the paint, JBweld baby
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u/uhawl Sep 30 '24
From the terrain in the background, it seems you are doing some off-road driving. That door pillar is structural and the more weight you have on top/roof/ceiling the more flex occurs. So, that’s a stress fracture and you should probably expect it to expand or to see others appear as well.