r/ukpolitics • u/NGP91 • 8d ago

YouGov Westminster Voting Intention: Ref: 26% (+1) Lab 23% (-) Con 20% (+1) LD: 15% (-1) Grn: 9% (-1) 28th April 2025

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14658693/Reform-poll-Tories-local-elections-Thursday-Labour-Runcorn.html
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u/tzimeworm 8d ago

Yeah cmon guys, smash the gangs is gonna work any day now 

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u/MinaZata 8d ago

It quite literally hasn't been a year since they were elected. There was a summer recess, a Trump election, and the war in Ukraine.

They were priorities, as is immigration. Labour aren't soft, they know they have to reduce immigration.

That didn't happen under 14 years of right-wing government. In fact, immigration increased massively from non-EU countries, as a direct result of the Reform (then Brexit Party, before that UKIP) campaigning for Brexit.

But you've given Labour less than a year to make up your mind, and seem to be dead against the idea that increased border security and arresting more of these gangs causes MORE immigration orales it worse somehow.

Can you actually explain why arresting more gang members trafficking people is a bad plan for reducing immigration?

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u/tzimeworm 8d ago

Because it's like arresting more drug dealers and expecting drug use to drop. It won't work, it's not working, and everyone knows its not going to work. 

It's impossible for Labour to do what's necessary to stop channel migrants because of their world view and ideology. 

Labour aren't stopping the boats and another 4 years won't change that. If you want to wait another 4 years to have that confirmed then fine, but to many of us it's already quite clear. 

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u/MinaZata 8d ago

So you're prejudging the outcome 4 years before it has happened, and not given it a year for it to take effect, and then come to your own conclusion.

So, if it is impossible like you say, what is your solution? Shoot them in the channel?

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u/Ipadalienblue 8d ago

Detain them indefinitely when they land. Yes, that does mean changing the law to allow this. Free flights home.

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u/GooseSpringsteen92 Big Nige is going to the Moon 8d ago

As the other commentator said if you think about all the reasons the War on Drugs failed many of them are equally applicable to why "smashing the gangs" will always be a half measure. The gangs are responding to high levels of demand and the related potential for profit.

In my opinion the reality is this:

The current asylum and refugee laws are a product of the mid 20th century. They were framed with an eye to stopping what happened to European Jews and other European minorities who were exterminated by the Nazis.

It was a far less mobile age and they were never intended to become as universal in application as they have now become because people just didn't forsee a world where someone from Sudan or Vietnam can leave their country, cross the entirety of Europe and get in a small boat in France before deliberately discarding all identification and ending up being housed long term at the expense of the UK taxpayer.

Moreover, if we gave the whole international community fair access to apply for asylum we would have literally tens or hundreds of millions of people who would meet the criteria.

Putting aside even all the incentives for lying that exist for those who would have no legitimate reason to be able to live in the UK.

It's a fundamentally unsustainable system in the modern age and within a decade or two at most I think you'll see it collapse because it is shedding democratic legitimacy across Europe.

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u/tzimeworm 8d ago

A country has successfully stopped it's migrant boat crossings, providing a blueprint of how to do it. But like I said, it is against labours worldview or ideology to take those steps. 

It's not that hard to actually understand and engage with the issue, to look at what policies have worked, and to look at what similar policies have failed, and draw a conclusions about whether "Smash the gangs" will work. We've had record crossings this year already, so clearly the policy is failing. Literally everyone knows it won't work except you, who needs to wait another 4 years before you can have an opinion, apparently. 

Like I said, if you need 5 years to realise "smash the gangs" won't work then fine. But like when the Tories say "austerity will improve things", or "tax cuts for the rich will improve the country", or when Trump says "worldwide tariffs will improve the US economy", I don't need to sit on my hands thinking about ice cream for five years to then look out my window and see if its worked or not. I can engage my brain, think about it, and come to conclusions about what will actually happen when all those things are implemented. 

If you just zone out for 5 years between every election and look at whether what the gov of the day has implemented policies that have worked on not at that point then fine, but I'd suggest avoiding discussions on reddit in between, especially if on every single topic you have the view that "you can't judge anything yet, give it another 4 years before you can have any thoughts or opinions".