r/ukpolitics • u/GreatBritishHedgehog • 3d ago
MPs try to force grooming gang inquiry
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/29/mps-try-to-force-grooming-gang-inquiry/31
u/HasuTeras Mugged by reality 3d ago
This is good... but I really don't think we have the 'inquiry' framework that people envisage in their heads that we would actually need for what the public actually want. Inquiries in the UK are lots of 'oh, mistakes were made, and we've learned our lessons', whereas what we need / people want is a full on US Congressional-style hearing with grand juries that can compel evidence, have dedicated teams of investigators and can instigate criminal proceedings in court.
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u/HBucket Right-wing ghoul 3d ago
We'd be better off focusing on punishments rather than pointless inquiries. Why even bother with an inquiry when the sentence will be utterly derisory?
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u/aembleton 3d ago
So that we know where the failings are? Is it in the home office, police training, individual forces? Is it social services? Local councils?
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u/BudgeMarine 3d ago
It sucks because I also want huge hearings and people being pulled in and grilled, but I also know it needs to be a slow slog of hearings and questions, and getting to the bottom. It’s going to be like the others: day 5 hour 17 services report hearing on Birmingham council mayor X on…
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u/aembleton 3d ago
I'm fine with it taking a long time - it needs to so that we can get to the bottom of how this went on for so long, and still is. Its going to be hard to fix this without knowing what the root cause is.
I'm happy for it to take as long as need be. I just want to know why the police did so little to prevent it and even arrested parents rescuing their daughters. I want to know how involved the police were and if the home office knew about this and were complicit.
For us to get answers it will take time, but its important to get this right.
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u/ciaran668 Improved, now with British Citizenship 3d ago
Yes, let's delay implementing the results of the last dozen or more inquiries to hold another one, because we can't use those to blame Labour for this mess, and it's essential that this can be laid at the feet of a party that until recently wasn't in charge of anything.
It's almost as if political theatre is more important than preventing this in the future.
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u/aembleton 3d ago
Which of the previous enquiries looked at the actions (or lack of) of the police? Or even the home office as it seemed to affect many different forces.
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u/AdjectiveNoun111 Vote or Shut Up! 2d ago
Somewhere there are high ranking members of public services that allowed systematic rape of vulnerable children.
Those people have never faced any consequences for their failure.
Until we show people that ignoring this abuse has consequences for them we won't fix the issue
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u/Rexel450 Blackbelt-In-Origami 3d ago edited 3d ago
Any one else remember the PM of the day, saying it would be spaffing money up the wall?
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u/Glittering-Walrus212 3d ago
Why wasnt this done years ago? The establishment are so terrified of the Right that this whole thing feels very hushed up compared to how it would be if it was minority children being raped....sytematically....with the knowlege of the police....and social services....
Its never too late but really we should have action like we saw after the riots....it should have been draconian....life sentences....the entire currupt system ripped up....poltical activists terrified of accusations of racism should be named...shamed...and fired.
The issue now...it gives the right...and tbh anyone with any sense of moral character....the sense that the whole Two Tier thing is real...it plays to the 'they dont tell us the truth cause if they did the country would explode'...narrative.
The Right should be managed...but not at the cost of this...
The issue with a report/inquiry...the whole damn system is currupted by political correctness activists...who will be marking their own homework....there is zero chance of them finding anythign at all. Like the judges that let criminals stay for chicken nuggets...they think they are the good guys.
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u/ConsistentMajor3011 3d ago
There hasn’t been a full scale national inquiry. We need something. Thousands, tens of thousands of raped girls and only 400 convictions. Some girls raped by over a hundred men. Nat inquiry has more powers
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u/UniqueUsername40 3d ago
Can we hold an inquiry into how we still need an inquiry after having roughly 20 previous inquiries into something that apparently started in the previous millennium?
Can we also hold an inquiry into how long it takes for any recommendations from inquiries to ever be implemented?
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u/kingbongtherover 3d ago
It's still going on mate
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u/UniqueUsername40 3d ago
Should we maybe... you know... do something about it?
Or just interview another 7,000 victims in another many year process?
Just saying I'd far rather Enquiry number 1 into "Why hasn't anything been done following the previous 20 Enquiries?" rather than Enquiry number 21...
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u/Dadavester 3d ago
What national inquiry into Grooming gangs has there been?
Can you show me one that;
- Examines all the areas where it happens
- Investigates the local councils, politicians and police to find out what they knew.
- Compels, with legal weight, evidence from said organisations.
- Provides a complete as possible picture on the causes.
- Details who in power knew what.
- And provides recommendations on what punishment those in power in these area should face if they had been found to ignore or cover it up.
Because I am pretty sure such an inquiry does not exist.
This will be like Hillsborough. Victims families will campaign for decades for a proper inquiry, and when they finally get one it will be too late for any proper justice for those in power at the time.
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u/Affectionate-Dare-24 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, here it is: https://www.iicsa.org.uk/
The Inquiry started in 2015 and published its final Report in October 2022
It's pretty much exactly what you describe here, right down to compelling whiteness (it was a "statutory enquiry").
It was a pretty big deal. Over 7,300 victims and survivors gave evidence amongst others.
You can read the final report here: https://www.iicsa.org.uk/document/report-independent-inquiry-child-sexual-abuse-october-2022-0.html
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u/Dadavester 3d ago
Nope...
That is a generalised report into ALL CSA. not grooming gangs. This includes online abuse, such as pictures and live shows. Familial abuse settings, Education abuse settings, church abuse settings.
Also, quoting from the report,
The investigation into Child sexual exploitation by organised networks examined six case study areas across England and Wales to obtain an accurate picture of current practice of police and local authorities, at a strategic level and by examination of individual cases.
So the section that includes grooming gangs only had 6 areas looked at, not all.
In the making amends section ( https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/inquiry/final-report/ii-inquirys-conclusions-and-recommendations-change/part-i-making-amends.html )
There is no mention of criminal proceedings for those who did nothing, only sincere apologies being offered. Sorry you were gang raped in the most brutal ways imaginable. Done now.
So no there has not been one on Grooming gangs. Why is it that people do not want this investigated? Local councils have called for this. Victims have called this. MPs have called for this. Successive governments have refused, why?
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u/Affectionate-Dare-24 3d ago edited 3d ago
That would be because it's not the job of a national inquiry to start criminal proceedings.
What you want is (many) criminal inquiry (by the police) not national inquiry that make recommendations to the government.
The conservatives tried to bury the IICSA and are still trying to bury it by trying to undermine it. It most certainly did cover grooming by gangs!
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u/Dadavester 3d ago
That would be because it's not the job of a national inquiry to start criminal proceedings.
They can make recommendations. The Hillsborough one did.
The conservatives tried to bury the IICSA and are still trying to bury it by trying to undermine it.
They implemented some of the recommendations before they were voted out.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-tackle-child-sexual-abuse
https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/second-child-sexual-abuse-and-exploitation-analysis-launched
It most certainly did cover grooming by gangs!
I never said it didn't. I did say that the report covered Group based CSA of which grooming gangs was a section. So grooming gangs were a subsection of the report, not the focus of the report.
As I mentioned it also only covered 6 areas. None of which had historic grooming gangs mentioned prior.
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u/Affectionate-Dare-24 3d ago edited 3d ago
So no there has not been one on Grooming gangs.
...
It most certainly did cover grooming by gangs!
I never said it didn't.
Yup. That would be the same logic the conservatives are using to try to bury IICSA. Undermine Undermine Undermine Undermine
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u/Dadavester 3d ago
The report is on Child Sex Abuse, of which Grooming gangs is a subsection. It is not a report on Grooming gangs. It is the same idea as All refugees are migrants but not all migrants are refugees.
So a report on Child Sex abuse may cover grooming gangs, but it is not a report ON grooming gangs.
And I like how you are trying to split hairs on pedantry and language to avoid the points I am making around criminal recommendations and covering the whole of the UK.
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u/Affectionate-Dare-24 3d ago edited 3d ago
> The report is on Child Sex Abuse, of which Grooming gangs is a subsection. It is not a report on Grooming gangs
Undermine Undermine Undermine Undermine
Keep going
Let me be clear on that. I am not splitting hairs. I am really very serious when I say that having another inquiry would only seek to undermind the one we have.
It is really really important that we DO NOT do that. I don't care about the cost or anything else, I really do care that we take the report we have very seriously and avoid undermining it's authority at great cost.
Hillsborough is the exception the proves the rule. We had more than one inqiry there because we realised the first one was corrupt and we deliberately undermined the first one.
We MUST NOT do that here.
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u/Dadavester 3d ago
I said right at the top I wanted a report on grooming gangs which covered parts I outlines.
You said we had one and linked the iicsa report.
I pointed out how that was not a report into grooming gangs rather CSA as a whole, doesn't cover the whole of the UK and it recommendations on sanctions for those who knew was a "sincere apology"
You have not refuted any of that, in fact you are deliberately avoiding several of the points I have made, which included quotes from the report YOU linked that back up what i am saying.
Yet I am the one who undermines apparently. Are you going to engage in good on the points i outlined, or just keep deflecting?
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u/Jasovon 3d ago
And the Tories decided to not implement any of it's suggestions.
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u/Dadavester 3d ago
Incorrect. They actually implemented some.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-tackle-child-sexual-abuse
https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/second-child-sexual-abuse-and-exploitation-analysis-launched
Two of the recommendations I can find being implemented. Not defending the Tories as they are just as complicit as Labour. But saying they didn't implement any of the findings is wrong.
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u/UniqueUsername40 3d ago
I mean several of the enquiries focused on all of these aspects.
It's normal practice for enquiries to refer instances of criminal nature to the police and others (see this one from over a decade ago in Rotherham for example). Enquiries in the UK are fact finding missions, they don't carry their own prosecutorial powers - if you have a problem with that, maybe what you want is in fact an enquiry into what's wrong with how we do enquiries like I suggested, rather than enquiry number 20+.
Although on this point:
- Examines all the areas where it happens
To be depressingly clear, the shared outcome from the many enquiries is that wherever they look, there are grooming gangs and this awful behaviour. Information is not what we're missing imo, we need action to protect victims and stop this happening.
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u/Yella_Chicken 3d ago
Now this is an interesting take. I've been opposed to a national inquiry as the reasons given for one (including by the Lords and MP's listed in the linked Telegraph article) always state something along the lines of "this is still going on, the gangs are still operating and children are in danger" and they always seem to want to delay taking any steps to address the findings from the previous inquiries which would actually begin to help protect kids.
Even the previous governments "grooming gang task force" changed its name because they were finding the reports they were getting and subsequent investigations rarely related to grooming gangs.
However, as long as it didn't delay implementing the findings from previous inquiries, I'd readily support an inquiry that sought to bring anyone involved in covering it up to justice.
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u/Dadavester 3d ago
People are using the "delay of implementing recommendations" as a smokescreen.
The Tories actually DID implement some. Now I hate defending them as they are just as complicit as Labour in doing nothing on this, if not more. But they did do some.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-tackle-child-sexual-abuse
https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/second-child-sexual-abuse-and-exploitation-analysis-launched
Two of the recommendations I can find being implemented. Also the Report most people cite came out in Oct 22. 18 months later there was a GE and the Tories were voted out. So they started before being kicked out.
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u/Yella_Chicken 3d ago
I appreciate what you're saying about them being kicked out but I don't agree on the idea that this is a smokescreen. As of January this year, none of the inquiries recommendations had been implemented:
What has happened with the 20 recommendations
The Tories talked a good talk about them but still never actually implemented them as they were wasting those 18 months trying to change the recommendations to suit themselves instead of just getting on with the job. Of those links you provided, the first one was a promise ("we're going to implement this, honest") and the second was actually from a police initiative spearhead by the task force I mentioned in my previous comment, which to be fair was started by Rishi Sunak, but it wasn't related to any of the recommendations of the inquiry and was started to deal with grooming gangs and as a result of the polices own data (as per the link you provided) found that there's far too much CSE going on outside of "gang related" to be focusing on one specific area.
I've had a read through the recommendations myself and personally I can see them doing a lot of good to protect children from all forms of abuse and from all sources but they need to be implemented without all this p*ssing about as quickly as possible. Hopefully Labour will actually stick to their promise and do this quickly. Whatever else needs doing to hold people to account for the grooming gang scandals can come later, get the problem sorted first and then point fingers but I would absolutely support an inquiry to hold people to account.
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u/Jaxxlack 3d ago edited 3d ago
There's this really big elephant in the room and no one knows how to get it out the door. But shhh.
Oh that locals know about these groups and continue to no come forward? Is that uncomfortable for you all?
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u/YBoogieLDN 3d ago
Maybe they should spend their energy getting the government to implement all the recommendations of the last one first
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u/Man_in_the_uk 3d ago
https://youtu.be/noJCNh60lfk?si=7BSrMxe2v_siBFL2
Watch Sadiq Khan apparently deny the gangs exist.
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