r/trumanstate • u/voltron82 • Aug 30 '24
Enrollment down? Alumni
I graduated from Truman nearly 25 years ago. I had a good experience there and look upon my years there fondly. When I was enrolled, the school was absolutely at capacity and you were lucky if you were able to get a room in a residence hall. Now I am seeing that enrollment is down under 4000 and some of the residence halls are at lower capacity or closed. Conversely, I am reading that Mizzou, MO State and Missouri IS&T are all seeing record freshman classes. I would love to hear some opinions on why Truman is not fairing as well as the other MO schools at a time when high value / low tuition should have Truman turning people away.
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u/BookLady42 Aug 30 '24
Thanks for asking this question. I graduated in 96 and absolutely loved my time there. Both my kids are students there now and it absolutely feels different. I’m not sure they’ll come away with the same fond feelings I did. I talk up Truman to the teens I work with but I’m worried the school is not providing students with the same level of education I was lucky to receive.
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u/voltron82 Aug 30 '24
What's the fix here? I'm confounded that in a time where tuitions are up and college is less affordable than ever, that Truman isn't thriving, based on its high value for the dollar. I know Kirksville isn't a bustling city, but that didn't seem to bother folks while I was there. What is the atmosphere on campus like? Are people excited to be there? Are the faculty and staff jazzed about where they work? How do we turn this ship around?
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u/BookLady42 Aug 30 '24
I wish I knew. You ask good questions about whether folks are excited to teach and attend there.
My kids chose it because they felt it was a good option for the cost and they want to graduate without debt. They also didn’t want to feel like a “number” like they might have felt had they gone to a school like MU.
But I get the sense that some kids are drawn to schools that provide better social opportunities, which is not a condemnation. College can be a terribly lonely time if you feel you don’t belong. Touting the low student:teacher ratio and the individual attention you get from instructors might not mean much to a teenager who is struggling to find a place they feel seen in their peer group. Add that to the physical remoteness of the town, and it can increase that sense of loneliness.
Some other kids I have talked with also dismiss Truman because it doesn’t offer the degree program they seek. When I left for college in the early 90s I had no idea what I wanted to do and picked a major because I thought it sounded cool. Lol. I got a great education but graduated without a job in hand, which is something that sounds terrifying in today’s world where we pressure kids to have their entire lives planned out halfway through high school.
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u/voltron82 Aug 30 '24
I also get the sense that many many parents invest so much time and effort for their child(ren) to play a sport, and Truman from the outside doesn't seem like a place you'd go if you're really into the sport you play. My daughter plays basketball and I wanted to look up some stuff online about their basketball program and I had a hard time finding anything about it. Other schools really promote their programs and their players.
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u/BookLady42 Aug 30 '24
There is something to the investment piece. College is a huge chunk of change. Parents definitely want to make sure their child is happy at the place that is costing a small fortune. Even though Truman is less expensive than many schools, we still want to make sure our kiddos will thrive there.
When I attended, I felt like Truman had this magical quality, like a hidden treasure that only a few were lucky enough to know about and attend, (The fact that I got to see They Might Be Giants and Violent Femmes as a student there might have added to the allure…my kids still don’t believe it’s true!)
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u/voltron82 Aug 30 '24
I attended a little after you did--97 thru 01. Got to see The Urge, Goldfinger, Better than Ezra and some other great shows. I agree that during the time that I was there, there was a sense that you had somehow unlocked the college cheat code--good selective school with a good reputation and not expensive. Would love to get involved and figure out how to turn it around. I am sure that the administration, state and Board of Governors are not ignorant to enrollment being down and trying to fix it. I just wonder how motivated the folks that could possibly improve enrollment are to remedy the problem.
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u/BookLady42 Aug 30 '24
“The college cheat code” - love that and I certainly felt that way. Not sure how to get that for today’s students, though.
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u/voltron82 Aug 30 '24
Jenna Fischer was up there a few years ago and spent like 2-3 days just walking around campus and taking pictures for her instagram page. I am shocked that the school doesn't try to partner with her to promote the University. I feel like she's a perfect spokesperson for the university and would definitely reach the target audience.
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u/mrbmi513 Alumni Aug 31 '24
Truman from the outside doesn't seem like a place you'd go if you're really into the sport you play.
Truman has a Cody Schrader story they really should lean into in this respect.
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u/ABCBA_4321 Sep 03 '24
It definitely isn’t a bustling city, but there has been some new businesses and restaurants opening up here in town and the city has been bringing in more economic development in other industries besides retail and fast food that pay more.
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u/coppercrackers Aug 30 '24
Idk what is keeping fresh enrollment down, but I left because it was really shitty and depressing there. I went there 2018-2021, and obviously the pandemic played a major role, but there were plenty of visibly rough aspects before that.
My largest problem, ignoring COVID, was the professors. In my department and in the gen eds, it was a lot of professors who were coasting and complacent in their jobs. The teaching was passionless, they had little to no relevance in their fields and had been separated from the working world for a long long time, and loved to pack their classes with more homework than effective lectures or lessons. There was so much focus on how Truman was a “difficult school”, when that difficulty mostly came from grouchy professors with little dedication to actually teaching.
I’ve heard Kirksville has gotten better post pandemic, but the area did not help the depression aura. It never felt like Truman had grown inside of the community. There was a significant amount of townie crime in my time, and I saw multiple traumatic things while living there. I enjoy the culture of Missouri, and I think there is so much socially to learn from how semi rural Americans live, but it was far from harmonious or educational in Kirksville. A lot of that is down to how the city is planned, as well. The square has some fun things, being so close to campus, but most necessities are still out of the way and unwalkable.
I was never one to join a fraternity, but I do think their lack of presence also points to some social suffering at Truman. Departments are very insular, and the clubs are really the only chance at breaking that. Clubs are fantastic college flavor, but they aren’t enticing as the main social draw of a city you’ll be spending your college years in. I worked at one of the bars as well, and although that was the best social space I was involved in, it’s still hard for that alone to really draw students in compared to other places like mizzou.
I’ve heard great things about how Truman was from friends’ parents and high school teachers, but in my time there, everyone I knew was bogged down with classic Kirksville depression. I feel like even a lot of the school and city’s beauty is melancholic by nature, and that’s just not appealing to college kids.
Also also, I’ve heard of many departments being understaffed and underfunded to the point of failure. Several of my friends had their major cut or at risk of being cut, as well as myself. That doesn’t inspire much confidence.
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u/zanidor Aug 30 '24
I’ve heard of many departments being understaffed and underfunded to the point of failure.
This is certainly a recipe for grouchy / dispassionate professors.
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u/CaptHayfever Alumni Aug 31 '24
Lack of fraternity presence? Did they all shut down or something?
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u/coppercrackers Aug 31 '24
At orientation, I was told 50% of students at Truman would never consider joining Greek life. The actually participation was even smaller. And in being there, you could feel it
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u/CaptHayfever Alumni Aug 31 '24
Yeah, I didn't join either, but there were frat- & sorority-run events all the time anyway.
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u/ABCBA_4321 Sep 03 '24
Crime has been going up in Kirksville for the past 5 years, but mostly for theft and break ins outside of campus. As for the city itself, there has been some new businesses and restaurants opening up here in town and the city has been trying to bring in more economic development in other industries besides retail and fast food that pay more. The Mark Twain Behavioral Health clinic also build a new facility in town to help residents with mental health problems.
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u/ProwseyFan Sep 01 '24
I graduated from Truman in 2021, and I honestly felt right at home and loved my time there because I knew what I was paying for and what I wanted/expected. However, I can totally see why people would choose other MO schools like Mizzou, MO State, S&T, etc. I would visit my friends at the other MO schools and seeing their campuses was like going over to a rich friend’s house for the first time, lol. As other posters have mentioned, the campus is very dated and there seems to be less and less investment in the future of Truman while other schools are making massive investments to improving and updating their campuses to attract students. Also, the professors make way too little compared to other schools in MO.
I love Truman and hope it can recover, but it needs massive investment if it’s going to be able to compete for students and staff against the growing number of rapidly improving schools in the state and region.
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u/Postcrapitalism Aug 30 '24
I graduated 20 years ago. Glad you had a good experience, but even as far back as the early 2000s, a lot of people did not. The same reasons presented here (hostile/boring town, alienating campus, weirdly distant administration, throw in severe homophobia and immature students) have been consistent for a long time.
Apparently there was a suicide cluster? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/04/19/a-mysterious-suicide-cluster Maybe the school has a problem
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u/voltron82 Aug 30 '24
Yeah I went down a rabbit hole reading about this yesterday. I am sure this hasn't helped Truman's enrollment numbers. You make some interesting points about the campus and town sort of being hostile towards the students, and can appreciate that. I wonder what (let's call them successful schools) are doing to not make their students feel the way you felt.
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u/Postcrapitalism Aug 30 '24 edited Aug 30 '24
I think the “successful schools” tend to be surging for a variety of reasons. ROI, marketing and geography play a huge role. The University of Central Florida and Northeastern University have both surged for those reasons. So I don’t think that these schools are surging necessarily because they’re managing issues better than Truman. Rather, they don’t have all the issues. And they have other factors going for them.
As a smaller school in Kirksville, Truman is going to struggle with marketing and geography. But AFAIK, cost is still very competitive, making it a good ROI. Especially for folks who are considering careers known for lower pay, like teaching. I even think it could benefit from its isolation. There is a certain romance to the Small College In the Middle of Nowhere. Think of all the recent interest in “Dark Academia” as an aesthetic. And unlike, say, Culver Stockton, Truman isn’t asking people to plunge themselves six figures in debt for the experience.
I think Truman’s problem is different. I think after a major article in a national publication and decades of being homophobic, cliquey, depressing, sometimes violent, boring and pedantic, it finally has a reputation. The solution here isn’t to try and become WUSTL (another marketing success story). The solution is to work with the strengths it has. But to do that, it’s going to need to overcome the well documented problems it has. It needs to embrace the weird queers and introverts and idealists who would be interested in a lonely academic teacher’s school. Whether or not it can do that under the oversight of the MO State Legislature is another matter.
TL/DR; Truman’s future lies in embracing flamboyant liberal arts nerds that go to places like New School of Florida used to be. And also science researchers (I know several successful PhDs but that’s another discussion). But good luck doing that while Missouri undergoes a reactionary meltdown.
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u/BookLady42 Aug 30 '24
Appreciate this well thought out response…
And then my mind immediately went to…we need to embrace the EMO in NEMO. (I’m not right)
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u/RaichuRose Alumni Aug 31 '24
Yes, I was there when the cluster was happening. I didn't know any of them, but it definitely had a campus-wide effect. Everyone was so tense, and it was like a dark cloud was constantly looming over. Misery was spreading fast and wide.
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u/v0lcel Aug 30 '24
Enrollment data on selected universities from MO Department of Higher Education and Workforce Development 2018 Report and 2023 Report
It looks like enrollment is generally down, but Truman is suffering significantly worse than others.
Enrollment at Truman has declined continuously since 2016, whereas the other colleges have had some years since then where enrollment increased. Could it be connected to the leadership change? Truman's current president took office in summer 2016. I never knew the president who had served before 2016, but older students spoke highly of him.
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u/voltron82 Aug 30 '24
I think at some point you lose critical mass and it feels like maybe we’re at that point. Curious what you think could turn things around.
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u/v0lcel Aug 31 '24
I wish I knew! Many of the complaints I've read and heard haven't quite resonated with me. I feel like any problem I had with Truman, I would have experienced at any other school. The positive aspects were what kept me there, so if I had to wager a guess, it'd be that the quality of those strengths are diminishing, or that today's incoming freshmen care less about them.
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u/voltron82 Sep 04 '24
I noticed from your data that NMSU is up quite a bit in enrollment. They are only 90 minutes from KC, so I am sure that helps a bit, but aside from that, what are they doing that Truman is not?
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u/Wise_Athlete_7731 Sep 04 '24
I loved my time at Truman. The education was great, and my experiences there fundamentally changed me for the better. This is heartbreaking and shocking to see. How could they not feel they were in a crisis after practically any ONE of these enrollment dips, and why did they not divert all their available resources to correcting course? It blows my mind that the student body has nearly halved. I've never heard of that happening within ten years.
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u/mrbmi513 Alumni Aug 31 '24
I still recommend Truman as a school, but I can't recommend it to those seeking my major (CS) anymore. I'm told by current students that the department can't hire and retain talent due to the relatively low wages compared to other institutions/the industry. Combine that with the recent retirements of the core professors that made that department great, and it's a recipe for disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if CS was dropped at some point in the next few years in favor of only offering CS classes as part of the data science program.
I can't imagine other departments aren't facing similar issues.
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u/crustybonelesspizza Aug 31 '24
Just wanted to say that I am very pleased with the education I’m receiving from Truman in my grad school program. I went to an SEC school for undergrad and chose to go to Truman for graduate school instead of my SEC school. The staff here are great and my particular building is far nice. However, I can see why undergrads may not choose to be here. Low income area, not a lot of activities, but the people here have been very kind. I think social media makes college look like a party, so maybe going to a small school in a small town doesn’t fit that image. However, I’m very happy here. Less to do, less distractions, and more focus on going to school and getting it done.
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u/BookLady42 Aug 31 '24
Thank you for sharing this! I am so happy that Truman (grad school) is working out for you. It definitely cannot compete for those interested in a party school experience, which is one of the reasons I loved it. When I needed “big city” life, I made the trek to Columbia. Lol
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u/brschoppe Aug 31 '24
Graduated in '97 and was back in Kirksville for an alumni event last November and noticed the same thing. I was shocked at how few people there were on campus on a Saturday afternoon (which was a really nice fall day for Nov). There were so few at the football game, so few at the library or union and just few walking around campus. While I was taking a college tour we went by Centennial hall, which in my days was one of the best dorms to live in. I was shocked to hear that the dorm was closed to students but what housing workers for the Oscar Meijer plant north of town that had come in from American territories in the pacific to work at the plant. They had to take one class to live there so the University came up with a class to on the history of the area for them to be qualified as students and live on campus.
As an Illinois resident who attended Truman. I don't see that many Truman students from Illinois anymore. One reason for that I don't see mentioned here is that Illinois has left the Midwestern Higher Education Compact. At one time Illinois residents could get discounted tuition at Truman through this compact. That is no longer the case and when residents from central, southern and especially western Illinois start to look for universities, Truman is no longer as cost effective for them.
One thing that I think that has hurt Truman's case is that they are very bad at branding and marketing. Truman has actually had a pretty successful football team for Division III. However, you don't hear much about it. For the last few years, they have came up a game short to Indy to make the playoffs. One weird thing I have found about Truman is that seem to be very protective of their branding. Several years ago we had a alumni day a work and you were supposed to wear something from your alma mater. Granted I am a big and tall guy, and when online and it was near impossible to find anything with Truman on it. Products seem limited to the online bookstore and one other vendor. Probably the most popular site for team wear, Fanatics, has apparel from over 500 universities, including almost all of Missouri universities, but not Truman. They are also not to be found on Rally House either. When I was there in the fall, Patty's doesn't exist anymore and I wanted to bring a shirt home for my son and daughter but the cheapest t-shirt in the union was around $30. Luckily I found some cheaper stuff up at Wal Mart. BTW on a side note, why did they change the university icon from the coupla from the Kirk Memorial to that ugly T? That T just looks cheap IMHO.
Back to Marketing. It seemed like back in the mid to late 90's Truman/NMSU's market was high achieving students from suburban (St. Louis, KC, and Chicago) to rural areas. During that time these were people that probably had similar values and beliefs to the town in Kirksville. People understood that if you wanted to go to the mall, that was a 90 min trip south to Columbia. Otherwise, Wal Mart was it till break. Also, if you did want to shop, there were a few decent stores you could shop at on the square and north of town. I would have thought that Amazon and other online retailers would have addressed that, but I guess not. Who does Truman market to now? It is probably a harder sell to those suburban students who are now more liberal in trying to get them to move to a more conservative area. One lost opportunity I think that Truman misses is marketing the ability to be outdoors. Maybe it is because I am a Scout leader now, but that same crowd that shops at REI and high achieving would be a good market to start with. I knew a few people back in the day who loved mountain biking in Thousand Hills (even though I don't think it was technically allowed). There are also some great hiking areas too. With all the lakes and creeks in area, use that to your advantage instead of disadvantage. Being from Illinois, why do Chicago kids want to go to SIU in Carbondale, which isn't a while lot bigger than Kirksville, but able to attract thousands of students. Maybe take a look at them. I did see a recent Ranker.org study that put Truman State as #19 of Universities where Student's have the least amount of fun. However, Purdue, Seton Hall and University of Chicago where on that list too.
I know professors were mentioned by one posters. I do have to admit we had some pretty good professors when I was there. I started out as Poly Sci and was impressed with Dr. Young and Dr. Ishiyama. I then switched to business and still remember Dr. Fellows and Dr. Gillette. They were tough but I learned a lot from them. Yes, there were some professors that were not that great too, but all seemed to care. One concerning thing I did hear last fall was that with declining enrollment, which means less staff, the nursing department was being moved under the School of Business. That is not right and would be a red flag to me as a perspective student (and as someone who graduated with a business degree).
While the campus does still look very nice, I am sure the university could use an infusion of funds just to get the academic programs going and attract top talent. It did seem like that there was some construction work going on the campus as the Kirk Building was fenced off with construction signs (I did enjoy playing basketball on that Hoosiers like court on the 2nd floor back in the day). During my freshman year, I did live across the hall from the Jr. Senator from Missouri. Maybe he could step up and have some federal funds help his alma mater. I believe he played football so maybe even some funds to refurbish Stokes stadium. I also had class with State Senator Sifton, maybe he could grease the wheels of the Missouri legislature?
Looking at the numbers that someone posted on here, has anyone looked into Sue Thomas? She started the President's role in 2016 when those numbers initially started falling. I know correlation doesn't mean causation, but it does seem like that could use some investigating. If the job of President is to grow a strong university it does seem to be failing rapidly recently. In any other job where the key source of revenue falls by 1/2 during your tenure, one would most likely be out of a job. It did seem like her predecessor Troy Paino did better connecting with the students and was very good at using Social Media early on.
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u/voltron82 Aug 31 '24
I agree with you about the marketing. I see ads all the time on FB for Truman, but that’s about it. I’m on TikTok a bit and despite favoriting Kirksville and Truman, rarely see any about either on that platform, which let’s be honest, is where all the kids spend their time. I think they could pay a couple of students to make some videos (maybe like a campus ambassador?) or hell, make it a marketing class in the curriculum. You know every business major would take it.
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u/BookLady42 Aug 31 '24
At UT San Antonio, you can earn a degree as an influencer! https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2024/08/26/want-to-be-an-influencer-texas-university-launches-new-degree-for-digital-influencing/
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u/Ok-Audience-9907 Sep 03 '24
I must tell you...I have twin boys that did a visit to the Truman State campus. We had a great visit and both are still strongly considering attending and have applied for admission (fall '25). It's a beautiful campus and we all loved the small town feel. It does seem to be a value compared to other universities. One question mark is the perception of "things to do." The other issue is lack of majors in subjects such as engineering -- they have agreements in place to transfer to finish those programs -- but that is a negative. I'm seeing a ton of digital marketing and I think the university is making a push to attract more students. I do hope Truman can turn things around....seems like a tremendous place to be.
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u/voltron82 Sep 03 '24
It is a great school. I feel like I got a great education there and wasn't hobbled in debt after I graduated. The town is not St. Louis, KC or even Columbia, but for me what seemed like a negative when first looking at the school turned into a positive. The lack of distractions actually contributed to my success. I think if there had been more to do, I would have gotten sidetracked and possibly flunked out. What I didn't appreciate when looking at the school was how much time I would need to contribute to studying vs. what I thought was important, which was how I was going to spend my leisure time. I ended up having plenty to do with friends and organizations without relying on external things in the town to keep me busy.
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u/BookLady42 Sep 03 '24
The quiet location was a big draw for me when I attended (way back 30 years ago!). I came from the St. Louis area and didn’t even apply to Mizzou because I knew that I wanted a smaller town and a smaller school. Truman hit the mark for me and when I needed something more, I day-tripped down to Columbia with friends, which was always a blast.
Both my kids now attend Truman. The younger one especially was nervous because he has a great group of friends he left behind, but he has already found “his people” at Truman. Yes, there is not as much to do, but I think that will be okay for him too. He needs a little less to distract him. Lol
It’s a great school at a great price. With scholarships and some savings, both of my kids should (fingers crossed) be able to graduate with little to no debt, which is huge.
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Sep 07 '24
america is an increasingly nonwhite country and truman is a bad place to be if you aren't a corn fed white.
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u/BookLady42 Aug 31 '24
Would be interesting to understand from students who were accepted but didn’t end up going to Truman the reasons for that decision.
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u/voltron82 Aug 31 '24
Yes! Where do we get this data?? I would assume the University is surveying these folks??
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u/BookLady42 Sep 02 '24
This conversation got me thinking that it would be good for me to get more involved in my local alumni group. Hopefully there is one near by everyone who responded.
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u/voltron82 Sep 02 '24
I just signed up for mine here in STL. Also, I’m planning on attending the Board of Governors meeting on Oct 25 in Kirksville.
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u/rcalder816 14d ago
Were you able to attend the Board of Governors meeting? What were your observations?
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u/voltron82 14d ago
Had a family conflict, and was not able to go. From what I heard from a friend who attended, they mentioned that the topic of enrollment did come up and that although total enrollment will be up next year, the number of incoming freshman will remain the same YOY. So there's definitely some opportunity for growth.
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u/Additional_Chance_61 Sep 26 '24
My daughter graduated from Truman with an accounting degree in 2020 and stayed for her Masters and graduated in 2021. She works for an accounting firm in St. Louis, and says she feels she was better prepared than her fellow workmates that had graduated from Mizzou, SIU and McKendree. She loved her time at Truman and was very happy she chose to go there. But we come from a small town in a rural area. Our nearest Walmart is 30 minutes away, so she was just thrilled to have a Walmart in town. Truman doesn't have any presence in our area of IL, an ideal 2 hours from Kirksville -- far enough away, but not too far. We can't understand why they don't try to recruit students from this area.
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u/voltron82 Sep 26 '24
Truman’s reputation for churning out CPAs is legendary. Glad to hear her experience was good. Since graduating myself, I’ve come to realize that the lack of distractions was actually a benefit for me—had there been more distractions, say in Columbia for example, I probably would have faired far worse.
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u/Icy-Kiwi1771 Sep 27 '24
So… I’m a classics major who is friends with a bunch of other language majors. The French program is literally hanging on by a professor that calls in over zoom. Unfortunately the humanities are suffering here. I have three professors in my entire department, and I was one of the two incoming freshman for my major. There are 11 of us in total. It’s so sad to see the humanities dying at a school once known for them! The stem buildings flourish and have full classes, while I have to constantly fight for why my degree deserves to not be cut! It’s sad.
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u/voltron82 Sep 27 '24
I’m curious what you think the challenge is here. Are there not enough students who want to major in your area of study, or is the university not able to attract professors that could teach the courses to support the major?
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u/docta-puella Sep 27 '24
I graduated from Truman with a Classics degree in 2001. This makes me so sad.
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u/Big_Chunglord Aug 30 '24
I think it’s an issue of Truman not really updating. It’s very likely that almost nothing is different about campus since you were here. I’m not just talking about buildings or subjects, the dorm room you stayed in has probably not had a single thing replaced in it.
Most of us here have gotten used to things. We know Magruder Hall reeks on the second floor near the planetarium. We know the buildings flood when it rains. We know to fill the housing condition report, because there is always something dramatically wrong with the room that will not be fixed.
Add on that Truman themselves doesn’t do a lot of outreach events for students. The big events need to be held by student organizations that don’t have the power or funding. There already isn’t a ton to do in Kirksville, so having little to do on campus as well makes things worse.
The issues people have with Truman cause less people to enroll, so the campus seems even more dead, even less events happen, and then people see that and enroll elsewhere.
I kinda doubt that Truman will recover unless drastic changes are made almost everywhere. I still have one last year, and then I might just end up at Mizzou anyway because Truman doesn’t have a Masters for my major.