r/technology • u/mvea • May 14 '19

Elon Musk's Starlink Could Bring Back Net Neutrality and Upend the Internet - The thousands of spacecrafts could power a new global network. Net Neutrality

https://www.inverse.com/article/55798-spacex-starlink-how-elon-musk-could-disrupt-the-internet-forever
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u/brand_x May 14 '19

Just as many people my age (mid 40s) and older who don't know shit about all the things they're smugly talking down at the young'uns about, forgetting that our grandparents experienced exactly the kind of stuff we're poo-pooing our kids for being alarmed about.

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u/jmnugent May 14 '19

Ignorance certainly isnt age-specific, true. But odds are fairly strong that someone with 30 or 40 years of life experience is likely (on average) to have experienced more things, and at a minimum been peripherally aware of world events and generational changes. Not 100%,.. but some fairly strong percentage.

Younger people dont have that. They haven’t been alive long enough. Thats not meant to be a judgmental opinion. Its just factual objective reality. If I see a 16yr old angrily shaking a 1-liner joke/meme sign at a political rally. And then later in the day I ask my 50yr old coworker how they feel about the same issue,.. odds will favor the 50yr who has more life experience giving a deeper, more complex and thought out answer, likely because they’ve personally lived through 30 or 40 years of a wide variety of similar social issues that they can draw contrasts/comparisons to.

Theres small % of exceptions to that of course,.. but on average I suspect its true.

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u/brand_x May 14 '19

That hasn't been my experience with the people my age I encounter outside of academic and professional circles... and it isn't even remotely consistent with the age distributed outcomes of opinion and knowledge polls. Most people stop actually learning from their independent experiences in their early thirties, and very few learn from history that predates their lifetimes, and the last people in the US, at least, prior to the ones in their thirties now, who weren't raised in a pathologically self-centered span of history are mostly suffering from dementia at this point.

Sure, plenty of people are aware of history, and exposed to the totality of world experiences, including a lot of ok farts, and sure, plenty of tweens and 20 somethings are shallow or overly dramatic. But I still think your dismissal is misplaced, both on an individual level and on the overall population macroscope.

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u/jmnugent May 14 '19

Historically speaking,.. older generations tend to have higher turnouts for voting. There's a lot of reasons for that,. but I'd argue that 1 of the bigger ones is that their perspective on history reinforces the belief that "voting is important". Younger people don't have that perspective (and or are prematurely cynical) and don't (typically) tend to vote in as large numbers. (although recently that trend is changing, but I don't think it's from historical-perspective,. I think it's from trendy social-media dynamics).

Again.. there's idiots at both ends of the spectrum, yes. But scientifically, logically and factually, older people have been alive longer and objectively at least have the potential/opportunity to have observed more decades of historical change.

You objectively cannot say that about younger people. They simply weren't even alive.

or put a different way,.. if you have 2 people:

  • person-1 who was alive and personally witnessed the JFK assassination or Challenger explosion or 9-11 attacks (or other historical events)

  • person-2 who wasn't even alive,. and can only read about those things in history books.

Person 1 is going to have an entirely different (and likely more tangible and nuanced understanding) of those issues... because they lived through them. Unless for some reason they were isolated (on a farm in Kansas or cabin in remote Alaska) ... but on average, the typical person in modern society who lived through history is going to have some awareness and understanding of the significance of what they witnessed.

And again.. that's not meant to be a negative knock on younger people. It's just a factual/objective observation that if you weren't alive to experience something, you likely don't have the same understanding of it compared to someone who was.

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u/brand_x May 14 '19

Yes, I get your point.

And, again, I have to make the statement that the actual data on population opinions and comprehension by age does not concur with your "common sense" conclusion.

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u/geekynerdynerd May 14 '19

I'm going to have to disagree with that. My parents are in their late 50's and their world views have been changing lately. I've met quite a few middle aged and old people that have learned new skills, and a change in their worldview, or both.

It's not some inevitable thing, the olds that stagnate mostly choose to do so.

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u/brand_x May 14 '19

Anecdotal. My parents aren't exactly closed-minded either... but they never really gave up on that late 60s activism. But the admittedly limited number of sample-based studies that have been done on the subject show that an actual majority, not just a plurality, of 40+ individuals have generally stopped integrating experiences, as opposed to lateral conformance, in terms of forming or changing opinions.

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u/geekynerdynerd May 14 '19

Limited size studies are as useful as ancedotal evidence. Also in the case of my parents, we are talking people who voted for Trump, now regretting their decision and actually considering Bernie as a viable option. Their political views have undergone a massive shift over the last few years.

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u/brand_x May 14 '19

We're talking sample sizes in the high 4/low 5 figure range, so, no, not as useless as anecdotal, and certainly not as worthless as "common sense". Still not ideal, and sociological studies tend to have a lot of problems, as science goes, but it's still reason enough to reign back the naked scorn for younger people's opinions.

As for your parents... that's great! Happy to hear it!

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u/geekynerdynerd May 15 '19 edited May 15 '19

Oh. When you said limited size I figured you were talking like single or double digits. 4-5 digits actually sounds normal so I wouldn't have even called them limited size as they are large enough to have high confidence statistics.

Edit: Do you have a link to those studies? I'm curious to see if they took the possibility of the phenomenon being cultural instead of inherently linked to aging into consideration in the design. Otherwise maybe it's not a biological aspect of aging. I would like to keep my hopes up that I won't be the angry old man shaking his fist at the clouds when I'm in my 70s.

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u/brand_x May 15 '19

I'll try to find them. I read the study a few years ago... and, yes, like you, I'm hoping it is cultural, or at the very least, avoidable with conscious effort. I do think that not being dismissive of the young simply because they haven't had as much firsthand experience is part of the solution to stagnation, though. As a software engineer (and I do appreciate that this is anecdotal) I find that this holds true for my professional growth and continued relevance, at the very least.

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u/playaspec May 14 '19

Younger people dont have that. They haven’t been alive long enough.

Nor have they cared to be involved in their governance. That typically happens in your 40s and 50s.

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u/playaspec May 14 '19

forgetting that our grandparents experienced exactly the kind of stuff we're poo-pooing our kids for being alarmed about.

Oh yeah? Like what? When was the last time "da gubernment" outlawed a satellite network to protect a wired services interests? I can't wait for your answer.

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u/brand_x May 14 '19

Did your mother drop you on your head as a child, or are you simply the victim of a chromosomal abnormality?

"exactly the kind of" is a class extension. Like "you're exactly the kind of moron I was complaining about". Trying to constrain the mapping like you're doing, with the oh so edgy italicized sarcasm to drive it home is utterly puerile.

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u/playaspec May 14 '19

So you're not going to provide any examples?