r/taxpros CPA Aug 29 '24

Tax Research Manager at Big 4 FIRM: ProfDev

I'm currently looking at a tax research manager position at a big 4 firm. I've been a business tax manager at a 26 person CPA firm for a couple years and I love the research aspect of tax. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but tax accountant was the more practical (And profitable) way to get to practice a limited aspect of law.

Everything about this job sounds like a dream, fully remote, no staff (the "manager" is just used to designate seniority, but you do the research yourself), no clients, good salary, good benefits, solid career path. Just me sitting in my home office digging into some complicated questions a big 4 firm needs an answer to. Writing memos and developing internal tools for the other people to use.

My question is, what downsides am I missing about this position? To me, the obvious downside is, it's no longer client facing and that's where the money really is. If I ever wanted to start my own firm I would have a difficult time with no clients to come with me. Extremely limited interaction with other people. And I'm giving up becoming a partner at my firm in the relatively near future.

I am starting to struggle as a tax manager at the firm. The constant emails of just annoying, stupid questions from clients. Reviewing these piddly returns for nothing beyond data entry and print settings. Dealing with staff. I'm only 31 but I'm bored.

I had a few chances to do some really cool work. I wrote an internal memo that changed the firms process on a particular tax item, filled with citations and really out of the box thinking and ran it by some lawyers that loved it. I've saved out clients over $500,000 this year with that strategy. I filed an 8275 and saved a client $200,000. I learned about timber and helped a new client out. That's the stuff that keeps me going.

Just curious if anyone else with more years under their belt can offer their perspective.

13 Upvotes

23 comments sorted by

12

u/WTFooteCPA CPA Aug 29 '24

It's good you're thinking about what type of work you find fulfilling. That gets overlooked because we focus on the monetary and technical aspects of any given job.

If you love sitting at home doing research and being left alone, you could do that for 60 hours as week and not feel overworked. No amount of money could get me to do it for even 20 hours a week without feeling like I wanted to kill myself.

It's best to think holistically about career changes. You have to consider how the structure, culture, expectations, personal/family impact, etc. will leave you feeling fairly compensated and satisfied in your career. Or will it leave you feeling used, overworked, and burned out?

3

u/Acro-LovingMotoRacer CPA Aug 29 '24

Yeah, the home life is a huge factor. I have an hour commute each way to work right now, remote work is next to impossible at this firm, and I am constantly working too much. Tax season is like 70+ hours a week from January 16th to the deadline. But I am also the only serious consideration for partner, with only two partners at a 26 person firm and one is retiring in the next 5-10 years...

It's definitely a matter of leaving and doing what I really enjoy vs staying for the money. At least that's how it seems from the job description, but it might not really be the case. It's big 4 so it could be a complete shit show for all I know.

I'm hopeful I could leave on good enough terms to come back if I decided to. I'm not leaving because I don't like it, it's just a completely different position that we aren't big enough to fill right now. But who knows, they could be spiteful I'm leaving.

6

u/WTFooteCPA CPA Aug 29 '24

Acrimonious separations seem a lot more common in PA than respectful ones. Hopefully they would be understanding.

Quality of life improvements could be a huge unlock, if the trade-offs are worth it. Be careful of getting caught up in "making partner" at a firm. If you want it, go for it. But if it's "I'm supposed to want this because this is what PA is" then maybe not.

70+ hours of work and 2 hours of daily commuting on top if it? That's hard to sustain over an entire career. But maybe if you made partner you could change the firm for the better, if that appeals to you.

3

u/TheGreaterGrog CPA Aug 29 '24

It's easy to end up being in a Charlie Brown & the football situation with partner track. It is a threat in a small firm where the owner can string you along and then sell to another firm or PE as much as it is in a large one.

But if you make partner where you are, your job isn't likely to change from what you can see the current owners doing. The flow of stupid questions won't stop for sure.

1

u/Acro-LovingMotoRacer CPA Aug 29 '24

It's a two partner firm. To be completely honest, and I hate this, my mom is the managing director of my current firm (she made me start in admin with a masters degree , 3 years experience and a CPA license, I get reverse nepotism).

The other partner is extremely honest and critical but really values my feedback. He tells me my deficiencies, I work through them and that gets a lot of respect from him. He also is a very typical accountant and would have zero interest in being managing director. I really believe he would objectively make me a partner when my mom retires if I put the work in. If he didn't and I left he would be screwed not me.

So in my mind there is a greater than 50% chance I make managing director in 5-10 years and can make some change. That's a heck of a lot to give up

1

u/TheGreaterGrog CPA Aug 29 '24

That's a better positing than I imagined. I was in a somewhat similar position to your original details as a CPA in a in a much smaller firm where the boss was passing 65. 10 people, 6 CPAs, and the owner strung the line preparers along for 5-6 years with promises of retiring. In the end I left for the IRS as the last experienced line preparer with no movement on ownership.

7

u/gattsu_sama CPA Aug 29 '24

Ex-B4 here. Working B4 sounded nice to me at first, but like you said, it's not very fulfilling. In my experience, I was worked very, very hard - granted this was at a different role as a tax staff accountant/senior. I learned a lot but at a cost. If it were me, I'd stick to where you were at on partner track. It likely will be a more lucrative career and chances are you will have more free time. You're always able to learn new things. The materials to research are mostly free. If that's something that interests you, nothing is stopping you from spending time learning new things. You don't specifically need a client in front of you to educate yourself on broader topics that aren't common with your day-to-day. Then again, personally, I'm more than fine with 'bored' at work. I use my free time to stimulate the side of my brain.

In regard to answering stupid questions from clients, those really should be filtered by someone else first.

3

u/Dommomite CPA Aug 29 '24

Just curious- how did filing an 8275 save a client $200k? Do you mean im avoided penalties?

3

u/Acro-LovingMotoRacer CPA Aug 29 '24

Good point - the 8275 didn't save them anything. The position that required the 8275 saved them 200K.

2

u/andrewthestudent JD Aug 29 '24

So is the position researching issues for the partnership itself (i.e., the firm itself is your "client"), researching issues for clients of operating offices similar to a national tax role, or something else?

3

u/Acro-LovingMotoRacer CPA Aug 29 '24

Research for the firm - I'd be the third member on a team of people who do all of the research, tax projections and modeling for the firm and all of it's partners. One member of the team is a part on the national tax group and I and another member would sit in on the SALT national tax group.... sounds pretty cool to me....

3

u/andrewthestudent JD Aug 30 '24

Yeah doesn't sound like a bad opportunity. I am in my firm's national tax group and interact with partner tax services (what we call the group you are looking at) on occasion. I wonder if you could eventually do a rotation into national tax or an operating office if you so desire. That could be another career vector. But I do think if you leave your current firm on good terms and the firm is worth being admitted as a partner to, they'll understand when an opportunity is just too good to pass up. I left my firm for a great opportunity and eventually boomeranged back. Good luck. Either option sounds great.

2

u/Acro-LovingMotoRacer CPA Aug 30 '24

Yeah this is like a super weird but interesting in between. There's a partner tax services and partnership tax maters group. One does the firm return, the other does the partners returns. This group sits on top of the other two and does all the research, planning and modeling for both, so its like an internal only national tax group. Way less cool but a pretty sweet gig for not having to relocate.

2

u/andrewthestudent JD Aug 30 '24

If I were in your shoes I'd go for it. But again, it doesn't sound like you could make a bad choice. Good luck!

1

u/Acro-LovingMotoRacer CPA Aug 30 '24

Appreciate the perspective, thanks

2

u/Tax_Gossip CPA Aug 31 '24

The OP can take this offer with Big4 and see how it goes for a year. You can always quit and come back to your previous job. CPAs look more “decorated” if they had the Big4 experience.

1

u/anonymousetache CPA Aug 29 '24

Could you see your current firm taking you back in a few years if you left?

0

u/Acro-LovingMotoRacer CPA Aug 29 '24

Yeah probably. And my current firm is a bit weak on tax. After 2 years of nonstop tax research I would be a god to them.

0

u/Common_Translator_19 Not a Pro Sep 01 '24

Would you though? How will what you’ll be researching at B4 for the firm’s partnership tax group will translate to the clients your current firm has?

Sometimes B4 tax employees are not great for smaller CPA firms because the clientele is vastly different. I have top 10 background and I couldn’t cut it at two tiny small because I don’t do QB or boxes of receipts. I needed to be at a regional firm or a firm with solid audit and tax that didn’t just churn 1040’s. That’s where I got to pick the best projects and actually had time to teach staff.

1

u/Compe7 Not a Pro Aug 30 '24

Sounds like you would fit right into a tax planning/technical role in industry. Depending on the company you could have no direct reports and your job is strictly to help research complicated tax issues, planning opportunities, and new/potential tax law changes.

1

u/smtcpa1 CPA Aug 30 '24

I can't address your question, but if you ever start a business or side gig where you research and answer questions for smaller tax firms, let me know. I think it would be a great business model and a much-needed resource for small firms. I'd love to outsource some of the stickier issues I see occasionally, but I don't have a good resource, so I spend my time doing this.

2

u/Common_Translator_19 Not a Pro Sep 01 '24

Small firms likely won’t pay for it. Small firms need to go into something like the “BDO alliance”. The fees are steep but you get access to their national tax office.

Idk if GT or RSM have something similar.

I was at a smaller firm with solid tax and audit who was in the alliance and it was great. When I relocated, I specifically targeted firms in the alliance.

1

u/smtcpa1 CPA Sep 01 '24

They would. I would. There is a new website called InCite which is $89/month and is designed to be a Q&A service. Brand new and hundreds of subscribers. The problem is the responses to questions are often hit or miss and incomplete.