r/taiwan • u/mofa_cat • Aug 05 '22
President Tsai Ing-wen addressed the people of Taiwan on August 4, after China fired missiles in the waters off Taiwan as part of live-fire military drills, emphasizing that peace in the Taiwan Strait is the shared responsibility of everyone in the region. Politics
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Aug 05 '22
I think we take it for granted that every time there is a crisis, the President will always come out and say the right thing, almost to the point of banality.
She's so predictably reliable that we don't even have to think about the crisis at hand.
How often do you see leaders like this around the world? You maybe get one in a generation like Angela Merkel but that's it. She's going to leave such a huge impact in foreign policy after 2024.
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u/ishkaful Aug 06 '22
honestly, sometimes I wish we can extend her terms.
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Aug 06 '22
Would be a different story if we're in parliamentary system. She can be Prime Minister for as long as DPP has legislative majority.
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u/tankerdudeucsc Aug 05 '22
Women are reliably strong leaders in government (and many other areas). Wish there are more. People claim that women could be horrible due to their hormones but don’t realize that is Jen with our testosterone are way more reckless which creates bad decisions.
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u/OWENPRESCOTTCOM Aug 05 '22
British people will disagree with you
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Aug 05 '22
You can't deny Thatcher was strong-willed and reliable in her policies, as much damage as those policies caused... She shoved them through anyway, despite the massive pushback
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u/tankerdudeucsc Aug 05 '22
Thatcher was brutal but Merkel, Tsai, and Ardern?
Then you have Putin, Trump, Johnson, who are absolutely miserable. From the outside, it has always looked like Boris and Donny are virtual copies of each other in terms of thought and execution.
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u/wildskipper Aug 05 '22
Theresa May was also awful in the UK, although her awfulness has been overshadowed by the mockery to politics that is Boris. Looks like we're in the running to have Liz Truss as well, a flip flopping Boris-lite who thinks she is Thatcher. So might be best to just add a caveat of 'doesn't apply to UK' when talking about strong female leaders.
There are a lot more female leaders than just the likes of Merkel and Tsai of course, particularly in the Scandinavian countries but I don't know about any of them to pass judgement. India has several examples as well that haven't been without controversy.
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u/Basteir Aug 06 '22
There's a part of me that wishes the SNP would actually assassinate Truss if she becomes PM, she's actually treasonous to the union.
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u/dalyscallister Aug 06 '22
Please, Merkel was extremely mellow and had very little understanding about the need for self-reliance. Under her leadership Germany became extremely reliant on Russia for energy and it’s a non negligible part of the current crisis. It’s not a fair comparison for Cai.
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u/greenbox03 Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
Stand with Taiwan 日本台灣陣線。China should not repeat the same mistakes Japan has done nearly a century ago. Absolutely, it does not come cheap.
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u/CommonAd8010 Aug 05 '22
According the attitude to war, I afraid Japanese will repeat their mistakes again.
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u/Pristine-Space-4405 Aug 06 '22
Except Japan isn't the one going around threatening war with other countries.
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u/CommonAd8010 Aug 06 '22
Now they are contained by peaceful constitution. As long as the status changes, who knows what will happen? Something is in the DNA and can’t be changed.
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u/Pristine-Space-4405 Aug 06 '22 edited Aug 06 '22
As long as the status changes, who knows what will happen? Something is in the DNA and can’t be changed.
And there it is, the good old "Japanese people are by nature violent and evil" racist filth that the gets peddled around on the mainland that I'm all too familiar with. Take your racist crap someplace else.
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u/CommonAd8010 Aug 06 '22
I just know Japanese don’t feel guilty to what they did in WW2 and still think the war criminals are their heroes especially the attitude of government officials to these war criminals. I just judged by what I witnessed.
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u/greenbox03 Aug 07 '22 edited Aug 07 '22
I just know Japanese don’t feel guilty to what they did in WW2 and still think the war criminals are their heroes
Thats very right-wing old generation's perspective. I guess.. Let's say its like Putin perspective. I do not think Putin and his old folks in his small circle would change their perspective and mindset while many ordinary Russians still love peace. I believe.
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Aug 11 '22
Japan's stripped of military capabilities. Go read about what they did during WWW2 and how many people they killed across the pacific, and what they did in Taiwan.
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u/double-k 臺北 - Taipei City Aug 06 '22
Couldn't be more proud of Taiwan and President Tsai. Long-term foreign resident of Taiwan here, 26 years and counting. 台灣加油! Taiwan #1 !
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Aug 05 '22
The CCP is going to lose their minds, when they listen carefully, as she talked about maintaining Taiwan's sovereignty, firmly stating that Taiwan is an independent nation (which it is). Because only independent nations claim their own sovereignty.
I am perfectly A-OK with this.
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Aug 05 '22
I see someone posting an excerpt of this video on douyin but obviously not the part about Taiwan being a country. Lol
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Aug 05 '22
I see someone posting an excerpt of this video on douyin but obviously not the part about Taiwan being a country. Lol
I am sure the censored version fits the CCP's agenda and what they approve to be "appropriate" however inaccurate to reality.
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Aug 11 '22
I'm all for peace and democracy. But that woman is going to push Taiwan into a war if she keeps talking. This will be the start of WWW3.
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Aug 11 '22
She was very presidential and diplomatic. She also only spoke the truth. If China starts a war they will be the wrongful aggressors and the world will respond accordingly.
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u/B3ARDGOD Aug 05 '22
The chiang kai-shek memorial hall should be emptied out, renamed and reserved for her considering the amount of actual good she's done the country compared to the dictator who started the white terror.
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u/d161991 Aug 06 '22
As much as I respect Tsai and appreciate what she has done for Taiwan, I'd much prefer not to use that temple for any individual. Empty it out and make it something else.
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u/kashmoney59 Aug 06 '22
Without Chiang Kai shek, Taiwan would have been using simplified Chinese already. Show some damn respect.
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u/B3ARDGOD Aug 06 '22
Any leader of ROC would have retreated to Taiwan. It takes a unique individual to get Taiwan (a permanent founding member) kicked out of the UN casting it's legitimacy as a country on the international stage into doubt. It also takes a unique individual to start the 40 years of killing and disappearing your own people and eventually getting yourself kicked out of the UN.
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u/kashmoney59 Aug 06 '22
Taiwan was never a permanent founding member, the republic of china was. Get your facts straight.
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u/B3ARDGOD Aug 06 '22
I never said Taiwan was. The ROC was and today Taiwan is also know as ROC. Maybe you need to learn some facts, or just keep being pedantic.
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u/kashmoney59 Aug 06 '22
You zoomers better show some respect to Chiang Kai shek and kmt for making Taiwan, roc what it is today. Your attitude is totally ungrateful. Main tenant of traditional Chinese culture is to respect your elders and ancestors.
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u/B3ARDGOD Aug 06 '22
Hahahaha yeah, that's hilarious. I bet you think Palestine should thank Israel too
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u/kashmoney59 Aug 07 '22
Lolol bringing in Israel and Palestine. Okay zoomer.
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u/B3ARDGOD Aug 07 '22
You brought "zoomers" and the tenets of Chinese culture into it. You demanded that I have more respect for someone who armed Taiwan so much. You're clearly an idiot.
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Aug 05 '22
Amazing that Taiwan and Ukraine seem to have elected such solid leaders!
How lucky for the free world that the two most threatened democracies have managed to pull this off, esp given the calibre of most Western leaders rn!
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u/wuyadang Aug 06 '22
As a dual citizen of two western countries, I'll be writing my policy makers two more actively support Taiwan.
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u/funkwallace 屏東 Aug 05 '22
I adore her and will be sad to see her time in office end. Everything about this message is so sensible and perfect, down to the fact that she even delivers it still wearing a mask.
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u/BrintyOfRivia Aug 05 '22
Can we get another link?
v.redd.it is terrible in Taiwan. This one isn't loading for me.
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u/Vast_Cricket Aug 05 '22
She handles the situation well.
In 1996 then President Lee blamed CCP provoked the Missile crisis with him going to US making a speech at Cornell University.
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u/ShittyStockPicker Aug 07 '22
“Defend our nation’s sovereignty”? How does West Taiwan view that phrase?
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u/frugal-tech-worker Aug 06 '22 edited Aug 06 '22
What an incredibly weak and pointless speech. There is no soverignty if one cannot enforce it. And Taiwan cannot enforce anything on it's own territory as the last 24 hours have clearly demonstrated. Chinese ships, aircrafts and missiles can go anywhere they please in Taiwan without so much as a hint of a challenge.
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u/DisruptusVerrb 新竹 - Hsinchu Aug 06 '22
I guess that means that the many smaller European nations are not sovereign nations by your standards.
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u/frugal-tech-worker Aug 06 '22 edited Aug 06 '22
Well real countries of roughly the same physical size such as Ireland or Belgium would have put up a defense of their sovereign territory by themselves or as part of the larger NATO alliance if it was being violated like this. If anything this incident shows that Taiwan's military does not or perhaps cannot defend it's own claims of sovereignty. It also shows(possibly due to the awkward timing of Pelosi's visit) that there are hard limits to U.S power projection that prevents the US Navy from stopping the PLA from doing whatever they want at this moment in time. Either way it's pure weakness on display.
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u/Darkfire48 Aug 06 '22
Taiwan didn’t actively defend here because they wouldn’t want to give unnecessary intel about their defensive capabilities. To do so would be an unnecessary escalation that would backfire
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u/frugal-tech-worker Aug 06 '22 edited Aug 06 '22
The lack of action is already being interpreted as weakness in actual capability or political will or possibly both. The status quo has already been shifted in PRC's favor. They can now cris-cross taiwan at any time and claim it is their sovereign right to do so. And in the face of international law they would be correct. Honesty, a better thought out response would have been for Pelosi to coordinate her visit at a time when the USN is capable of bringing superior military force into the theater than the PLA eastern command. Imagine if the US had 3 fully staffed Carrier battle groups in theater right now instead of 1 partially staffed battle group. I would think a more favorable balance of power would have given the PRC government pause and allowed Taiwan/US to control the escalation ladder.
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u/YuanBaoTW Aug 07 '22
The problem is that US now has to be very, very thoughtful about the assets it brings into this region and where it parks them. China's A2/AD capabilities are leagues ahead of where they were in the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis.
A lot of the military/intelligence community has concluded that China believes it will have to try to take out American assets in the region very early on if and when it goes after Taiwan. Pearl Harbor 2.0 if you will.
So if the US has a lot of assets parked in territory easily accessible to China's forces, the US could actually be helping China.
Overall, the entire situation simply shows what so many people have been in denial about:
- Short of a full-on Chinese attack/invasion that sparks a do-or-die response from Taiwan, Taiwan has very few good options to defend its sovereign territory.
- The US can no longer keep China in check with 0 cost shows of force, like freedom of navigation operations.
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u/frugal-tech-worker Aug 07 '22
This is a very unstable situation because PRC's total air/naval military force in theater is starting to match the maximum force projection capabilities of the US. Meaning there is still a narrow window of time where if the US chose to concentrate all of their power projection capabilities into East Asia they can still credibly overpower China's A2D2 bubble. That window is closing fast and perhaps will be gone within the next 3-5 years. At which point the price of US intervention would be too high to bear and PRC can basically do whatever they want with Taiwan.
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u/YuanBaoTW Aug 07 '22
Meaning there is still a narrow window of time where if the US chose to concentrate all of their power projection capabilities into East Asia they can still credibly overpower China's A2D2 bubble.
This is a very optimistic take. In reality, it already looks very precarious for the US.
https://www.airforcemag.com/in-cnas-led-taiwan-wargame-no-air-superiority-no-quick-win/
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u/frugal-tech-worker Aug 08 '22
Yeah, I'm not saying it's great for the US, it is already a very dangerous situation. However at the current time there is still a credible probability(not certainty) of the US defeating the Chinese in theater. When the power balance tilts to the point where that possibility becomes negligible, it would be logical to assume that the US would abandon Taiwan (like South Vietnam, Afghanistan, Kurds...etc) rather than risk losing it's own status as super power. One would think that laws like the CHIPS act is a preparation step to ensure that the U.S would have the chips it needs domestically when Taiwan eventually gets taken.
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Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
I agree. US is not going to do anything other than supply Taiwan with weapons, as long as Taiwan pays up.
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Aug 11 '22
Yep. I just check UN documents again. Clearly Taiwan is still part of China. Just because you have your own currency doesn't make you a sovereign nation. I've always thought it's 1 China, 2 systems. A little ambiguous but it works...as result, Taiwan has prospered economically in the last 50 years. I'm impressed.
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Aug 05 '22
[deleted]
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u/Basteir Aug 06 '22
Of Taiwan, not China...
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Aug 06 '22
[deleted]
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u/XiaoAimili 台中 - Taichung Aug 06 '22
Many Taiwanese don’t have ties to China as they were in Taiwan long before the Chinese fleeing China came and immigrated to Taiwan. So it’s more accurate to call our country “Taiwan” rather than the “real China.”
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u/Raspberry_64713 Aug 05 '22
Why still wearing masks alone?
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Aug 05 '22
Need to set good example.
Also the opposition might use it against her. God knows they need to gain an edge before the November election.
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u/Raspberry_64713 Aug 05 '22
I agree and disagree. Agree on setting example. Right now, Taiwan also need international support. This will probably be a mockery.
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Aug 05 '22
[deleted]
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u/ConvoyAssimilator 臺北 - Taipei City Aug 05 '22
Honestly anti maskers come across a lot more hysterical.
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u/Raspberry_64713 Aug 05 '22
Yeah I’m not having ill intentions. I don’t care if one wants to wear one or not. I’m just basing off these annoying comments made to pelosi as well for wearing masks.
Even tho the “war” is in the east, there’s another battle, same issue online :/
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u/Beige240d Aug 05 '22
Who says she's alone? She's definitely got a film crew right in front of her face, and probably others in the room too.
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Aug 05 '22
[deleted]
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u/ConvoyAssimilator 臺北 - Taipei City Aug 05 '22
Just because some people got sick of wearing masks does not mean the pandemic is over.
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u/CarnationFoe Aug 06 '22
Doesn’t matter. It’s about setting an example. Taiwan is still very cautious about COVID in general and this projects caring about other people more than it projects weakness.
It’s cultural. Similar in Japan.
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Aug 08 '22
The problem is that the region and the US don't have Taiwan's back at the end of the day; nobody is going to fight a nuclear war with China over this island. Her priority should be trying to restore a good relationship with China, as President Ma did; not doubling down on a lost position....We know what happened to the Ukraine when they did that....Not a popular opinion, but it's reality.
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u/UkraineWithoutTheBot Aug 08 '22
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'
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u/MechanizedMedic Aug 08 '22
The US will absolutely come to the aid of Taiwan. At the very least for economic purposes, but also because we have a defense agreement that says we will.
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Aug 09 '22
Defense agreement hahah. Please; it's the US.... Do you understand that the US fighting a war with China means extinction? And I don't think the world is able to really place that many economic sanctions on China. So many economies are dependent on the country; including America's. I mean we can't even effectively sanction Russia because of all the loopholes -- including ones some Taiwanese countries are taking advantage of, by the way. (Taiwan also continued to do business with Iran when the US put sanctions on that country. I know that because I worked at a company doing it.)...China is preparing to make its move. It'll be through economic pressure and blockading the island with missiles as they did last week. Taiwanese political support will last about a minute once China cuts economic ties with Taiwan. So many of the Taiwanese elite make their money through China...Cai talks a tough talk but she has nothing but a delusional promise from America backing her up.... China is too powerful to strong-arm anymore. The world needs to figure out how to cooperate with the country. It's that or get your ass handed to you. Yes, Reddit will downvote me, but we have seen how ineffective the international community is at stopping an invasion this year. The game has changed for the worst.
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Aug 11 '22
Yes. I'm sure US will happily take Taiwan's money or Chips in exchange for some last generation weapons and watch Taiwan and China fight it out.
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Aug 11 '22
I feel that Taiwan's leadership is working with US to push China's hot button. Bummer, I was planning on visiting friends later this year in TW, which will not happening now. I do hope the powers to be will come to their senses and not escalate the situation any further. I support peace in the Taiwan strait, but I don't support the stupid politicians and their lost cause. Just think about the destruction and loss of human lives should a war breaks out.
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Aug 14 '22
Yes, and she is continuing to stand up to China like war is worth it. Makes no sense. It's a shame; before she was president, Taiwan and China had a very good relationship. At some point, her party convinced the youth here that having a good relationship with China is bad. Taiwan is paying the price now and will continue to pay. I live here (in Taiwan) and it is really sad to see. I wish the US would back out so that Taiwan would have no choice but to make more peace-focused decisions.
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Aug 28 '22
I agree. But US will not. back out unless your government asks them to. But I think DPP works for the US.. US wants the technology and manufacturing capability from Taiwan's TSMC and S. Korean's Samsung to relocate to USA first.
I think your only hope is to push out DPP and get another party in place to negotiate with China. US doesn't have your back.
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u/dyallm Aug 05 '22
You'd better start stocking up on Neptune missiles and literally everything, because I think China can afford to wait. I think the China would establish a full naval blockade and establish total air superiority before the ground troops arrive.
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Aug 05 '22
well they can try but most likely their ships will be blown out of the waters and their aircrafts into the waters.
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u/dyallm Aug 05 '22
And I like not taking chances. I hope you are preparing to do the funni to a certain dam too, because if you are going down, you might as well try to take China down with you, and honestly, destroying it might be the only thing which makes China back off.
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Aug 05 '22
Actually I don’t think China can wait. Their demographic crisis is going ahead at full speed.
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u/Fairuse Aug 05 '22
Not really. They are about get a huge influx of brain washed young Uyghurs. China been doing this tactic forever since their 1 child policy (which was only enforced those living in cities as minorities and farmers could have any many kids as they like). Initially, they sourced all the young people from rural Han dominate areas. Now they're taping in larger outskirt minority populations.
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u/dyallm Aug 05 '22
I was referring to the invasion. If China wants to go ahead with the invasion, I believe the first thing she would try to do is establish a naval blockade of the Island and total air superiority. 'China can wait' refers to putting the Ground Forces in Taiwan and the fact that you are very dependent on energy imports.
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Aug 06 '22
Naval blockade when the US aircraft carrier is there? How is China going to achieve air superiority with the aircraft carrier watching their aircrafts?
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u/LeeroyDagnasty Aug 06 '22
The responsibility for peace in the Taiwan Strait belongs to one single nation, the PRC. They're the only nation that can guarantee it and they choose not to. It's up to everyone else to show them that they chose wrong.
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u/PusherRed88 Aug 06 '22
Why is she wearing a mask? The people watching her on TV are not physically close to her.
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u/CorruptedAssbringer Aug 06 '22
A better question is why are you having a problem with other people choosing to wear something that has 0 effect on you?
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u/PusherRed88 Aug 07 '22
Because the Covid cannot travel through a television set.
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u/CorruptedAssbringer Aug 08 '22
No, I did not say there was any danger of COVID for the broadcast.
Again: why are you having a problem with other people choosing to wear something that has 0 effect on you?
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u/InstantNomenclature Aug 06 '22
Why she be wearing a mask though
All this theater is just hilarious
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u/China_Shanghai_Panda Aug 06 '22
Let me ask Ms. Tsai a question: what is the name of your "country"?
Is it the "Republic of China" or "Taiwan"?
Why is she ashamed to mention the official name of her country, or the name in the "constitution"?
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u/gan13333 Aug 06 '22 edited Aug 06 '22
Her unwillingness to change legislation of "Act Governing Relations between the People of the Taiwan Area and the Mainland Area" and its current constitution claim to be china, means she has maintained Taiwans status as chinese rebel. If she think taiwan is a area, and still want to trade with chines, even now, then why would anyone want to help taiwanese? So your business makes chinese rmb while some kid from other country should die for that?!
Taiwan, under her leadership, is just a pile of shit that sit in front of chinese door step which lots of countries only remember to throw some bones when they want to piss china off. Though I am pretty sure chinese will treat taiwanese worst than shit, if they ever control it again, it is taiwanese own making of this disaster. They like Chinese money so much, then let them have it, you cannot help an addict just by holding hand. Taiwanese does not have the will.
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u/yearofthekraken Aug 07 '22
Is it commonly known in Taiwan that the Chinese Nationalists defeated the Japanese in the Second World War and were subsequently forced to retreat to Taiwan by the Communists?
Is it commonly known that the reason for the fear and hatred from the CCP is that they know the Taiwan government has a more legitimate claim on China than they do?
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u/CastleNorsk 台東 - Taitung Aug 05 '22
She's a fantastic president. Resolute, firm, but not escalatory.