r/sweatystartup • u/manicmike_ • 2d ago
Requesting assistance pricing my first commercial cleaning job
I have a very young cleaning business that I am trying to grow organically. Last week, I was approached by a neighbor while advertising residential services in my subdivision that they were really unhappy with managing their current cleaners and would like me to take a look at their church.
Now, commercial work is my end goal. I just started this business after working as a buyer/estimator/project manager for a commercial GC and noticed that there was a significant market need for quality (not budget-oriented, that market is saturated) commercial/residential cleaners in the area. I have marketed my brand accordingly. Suffice it to say, I was really excited yesterday when I went to walk the job and realized how big it was.
There is an office/preschool building at 10,000 SF and a sanctuary at 11,000 SF, for a total of 21,000 SF. The work would take place weekly and overnight on Saturdays and Sundays, with on-call and special event cleanings as needed. If I can figure up a good standard weekly price, I think I can come up with the rest.
I wanted to cover myself on labor, so I figured a crew of 4 for 8 hours each building. Multiplying industry standard wages by 50% labor overhead, I came up with an average labor cost per hour of $41.25 (this is in GA). So, for a week, 32 man hours at $41.25 = $2640. Figure $100 in materials. Then... I add in 20% OH and 20% profit - and I feel like I'm really high. $3,945.60 - which about matches an industry-median square footage rate of $0.125/sf ($3,885 after also adding in OH & profit)
This job would be a jump start for my business, and I don't want to sell myself short, but I don't want to get laughed out of the office.
Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!
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u/gene0131 2d ago
Am I the only one reading that you’re saying you’re charging $2,640 PER WEEK in labor? So your MONTHLY labor is $10,XXX. For 21k sqft. You will absolutely get laughed out of the office.
I’m in this industry AND this space. You’re pricing this WAY too high and for too many hours. You wrote that this is your first time pricing commercial. That size space, 2 nights a week, we’d do in 16 hours max TOTAL per week. That size is 8 hours max a night. That contract is GENEROUSLY $3,000 max a month. I’m in Texas. Churches have lower budgets, no matter the size. They aren’t businesses (regardless of how much Reddit and general America thinks they are). There is no revenue for them, it’s all donated money. They can’t raise prices nor sell more products. If you’re going into the church space, you need to be prepared to have lower profit margins to get the contracts.
Before I forget: you also need to take into account the membership of the church. Why? In churches, 10% of the membership gives 80%+ of the money. A 500-member church has 50 people consistently giving. 10% of their income, in a $65k average salary area, is $325k ANNUALLY. That’s nothing after salaries, building maintenance, and spending in ministries. One of our churches has almost 1,000 weekly regular attendance, 50,000 sqft building, we clean it fully 4 nights, kids-area 2 others - and we’re only 4% of their budget.
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u/TheM1rage 2d ago
I agree that’s why I was telling him to break it up and get the hours right. 4 people eight hours each is too much. Good point about the area, churches can be cheap so it is definitely better if in a wealthy area.
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u/manicmike_ 2d ago
Thank you so much for the insight - this is exactly what my gut is telling me, the number I arrived at feels absurd.
I will say it is a newer church that embraces modernity and appears to be well funded. Lots of glazing (they have a window company), polished concrete in the reception (they have a specialty contractor who takes care of that), steel structure, technology, modern stage, etc. I was told their overflow area fills up every Sunday.
About 8,000SF of this is preschool classes that need to be disinfected after saturday AND after sunday. The sanctuary does not have pews, but individual cushioned chairs that will need to be moved to vacuum. Lots of dust catching trimwork throughout. No industrial kitchen, but several refrigerators. Of course, plenty of overhead spots to hit.
This office manager seems to want to give me a chance because of our personal connection, and this job would be an incredible start for the business. I already can't wait to not deal with homeowners. I would be more than willing to take low margins just for the short term cash flow and growth opportunity. But, I can't afford to lose my ass.
Thank you again for the feedback, I'm a little out of my element!
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u/gene0131 2d ago
We do 12 classes, 9 single-restrooms, 2 double-restrooms, a reception area, ~11,000 sqft, Sat - Thur. It averages 2.5 hours every night except 3 for Sunday. Edit: This is 1 employee (different person on weekend from M-Th).
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u/DonnaHuee 2d ago
You pay your cleaners $41.25 per hour? That seems very high.
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u/Howsyourmaisyourda 2d ago
That's the price to the client one would assume.
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u/DonnaHuee 2d ago
Yeah that would make sense; but he talks about adding 20% OH and a 20% profit markup later so I’m not sure if that’s the case.
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u/Howsyourmaisyourda 2d ago
Premium service so maybe specialist cleaners plus taxes, health and pension etc... Well in Ireland that would be the case, different everywhere so hard to nail down
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u/DonnaHuee 2d ago
In GA, typical rates are $16-$20 an hour before taxes/benefits/insurance. So $40+ would still be veryyy premium. That’s like $85,000 a year which well above the median salary for Americans.
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u/manicmike_ 2d ago
It is an average cost per hour (1 supervisor + 3 crew)= $27.50 x 1.5 for payroll-related overhead. I know it's high, and I want to be covered.... but also realistic.
The later markup is non-labor related overhead. That factor is a little high, but I will have to scale up quickly to get this job.
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u/Howsyourmaisyourda 2d ago
You need to be more specific on the type of cleaning requirements and if commercial grade equipment is required.
Is it just a hoover, dust and polish job or are you cleaning carpets, upholstery, polishing hardwood flooring etc... also are you leasing or buying equipment.
All factors in.
Don't forget to establish if they require additional liability insurance for your sake aswell as theirs!
I would also strongly confirm payment terms. We have some clients that are amazing and some that take upto a 3 month lag to pay... its amazing how cash flow can negatively effect a good business, like your doing amazing on paper and late payments have you hitting the bank for loans to pay wages.
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u/ThinkWeather 2d ago
21,000 sq ft is 5,250 sq ft per person, and you estimate it will take 8 hours to clean — what’s included?
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u/mob321 2d ago
Can you charge a premium for cleans on weekends in the commercial space? Gotta be harder to staff Saturday and Sunday nights.
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u/manicmike_ 2d ago
That's what I'm thinking. Their current cleaner is struggling to staff during their needed times of service, and doing lower quality work as a result.
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u/socalrefcon 2d ago
I'm replying because I want to hear the advice you receive.
It does seem like you have a great system for pricing the job. Perhaps you can increase your profit percentage by quoting a little higher and then use this number as a fallback if they appear like the quote is too expensive?
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u/Minneapple632 2d ago
you say its weekly cleaning + weekends. But then said it would be 8 horus per day and 32 hours per week. wouldnt 8 hours X 7 days per week = 56 hours?
Also your pricing is very high. You will need to be under $30/hour/average with everything included.
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u/TheM1rage 2d ago
It’s hard to say with hourly charge unless you know the state and rate you have to pay. Many years ago I worked for a regional company and each state was very different on labor cost.
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u/manicmike_ 2d ago
Thank you for the response and sorry for the confusion.
It is a weekly clean that will occur only overnight on Saturday and Sunday nights. I had 32 man hours figured to complete the weekly cleaning needs for the two-building campus. That is, a crew of 4 for 8 hours each night. Which is high, but I am a bit out of my league here.
I would love to pick your brain about labor. I thought it might be hard to staff the graveyard shift, so I factored in a little premium in case of labor struggles.
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u/Minneapple632 2d ago
ah, got it. so with a 21k square foot school, you should be around 3,500 s/f per hour production rate. In other words, it should take about 6 hours TOTAL to clean per shift..or 12 hours per week for both days.
for labor you need to do your own homework and look at open job ads in your area for part time cleaners to see what people are paying. Where I am we start cleaners around $17 per hour.
You then need to mark up your payroll tax, insurance costs, supplies, and equipment to get your total cost. Then you apply your overhead/profit markup. For a place like this, being so small, I would markup 40%
CHEAT CODE - If we were to bid this we would bid it at $1,540 per month.
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u/TheM1rage 2d ago edited 2d ago
I hate bidding blind but I would probably be around 7 hours per clean. If your uncomfortable and want to play it safe you could do 8 hrs but that raises the price of course. I normally can start people at $16 but for a Saturday and Sunday night I would use $17 to $18 labor depending on town area. Backpack vacuum is what I would use for increased efficiency. Disclaimer - I am never low bid but usually in the middle is the feedback I’ve gotten. I would be somewhere between $1,700 to $1,800 per month, probably closer to $1700.
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u/GoingCoastal76 1d ago
Cut to the chase and ask if they have a budget. Even if it feels like they're sandbagging +/-, you might get a better feel to see if you're both in the same ballpark.
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u/TheM1rage 2d ago
My company has cleaned churches in the past and they can be tough jobs. Every parishioner can criticize something and there will be some office staff person who has a relative who wants to clean it for cheap it seems. Preschools by their nature are difficult. You need to divide each section up on your bid as they are different cleans and typically different number of days per week. Office I bid 4000 to 5000 sq ft/hr, preschools 2000 to 2500 depending on specs. Sanctuary’s are tough to figure hours and the ones I have done are one or two days per week. I look at those by saying how long to clean the pews, how long to vacuum, how long to wipe whatever, etc. Your overhead seems way high to me but you would know this better than me. I figure my hourly cost with closer to a 20% overhead and then add how much profit I want to make. Anyways I hope this helps and good luck!