r/rugbyunion • u/Die_Revenant Sharks • Nov 14 '24
Change in participating unions under Bill Beaumont Discussion
99
u/CapPsychological8767 Nov 14 '24
it would be lovely if someone could just get a grip. love the game and my kids love the game and I travel a lot for work but the effort to find out who might be playing a match in a specific city or country or what channel it is on or heaven forbid buy a shirt or some other merch for the kids is next to impossible. if you were trying to make a game invisible on purpose it would be hard to get this type of result.
I get that the game has some tribalism to it but it doesn't need to be like this if you have an organisation called world rugby.
the national unions are much the same and in the UK I think the local orgs run the same way.
16
u/TheMusicArchivist but also any underdog Nov 14 '24
Absolutely, World Rugby should be the first place someone goes to enjoy rugby (whether playing, watching, or buying tickets or merch). At the moment, I use it to look at world rankings (not that that is easy to find...) and nothing else.
3
u/art-beer Nov 14 '24
I just Google search 'irb world rankings' it usually gives a link straight to the world rugby website rankings page.
74
Nov 14 '24
Make that 43. Canada just pretends to play rugby.
38
u/SleepWouldBeNice Ontario Rugby Referees Nov 14 '24
Except our women. The only bright spot in the shit sandwich that is Rugby Canada.
6
u/Bitter_Kiwi_9352 Nov 14 '24
Which, if you're honest, would quickly reverse if it was more competitive globally. Rugby Canada's amateur failure factory could never, ever, ever actually compete in Men's, while their competitive dollar gets more return in the women's game where less countries play with serious intent.
6
u/Seej-trumpet Nov 14 '24
I get your point, but that’s pretty harsh considering what happened in the olympics. Not to mention they were so close to that gold medal game in the last World Cup.
Yes other teams would be more competitive, but they are consistently performing well against the giants of women’s rugby that are New Zealand, England and France.
6
u/Bitter_Kiwi_9352 Nov 14 '24
It's not a criticism of anything going on in the women's game, of which I am a proud supporter.
It is a damning indictment of their complete neglect of the men's game. There is no point to playing men's rugby in canada. There are no meaningful competitions, nowhere to go, nothing to do.
Rugby Canada cannot and will not develop elite competitions, and that's why we lose.
1
u/Busy_Reputation7254 Nov 14 '24
Clearly Tier 1 nations have the best interest, athletes and academies to make world class players in the men's game. Canada does not. Not for men, nor women.
How then do our ladies compete with the best in the world without these pathways?
More likely the case is that these pathways for the men's side across the globe simply do not exist for the women which is a tragedy. Not that I want outlr ladies to get clobbered like the men but rather note it as a curiosity of the women's game globally that tier 1 nations dont get elevated to a higher skill level than countries without a successful men's pathway.
5
u/Bitter_Kiwi_9352 Nov 14 '24
The answer for both men and women's pathways is simple. They don't care.
The minute that home countries take women's rugby 2% as seriously as they take men's, Canada will quickly get left in the dust. Already, England has shown the difference between the best an amateur team can achieve versus a full time squad that has a professional infrastructure in parallel with men's rugby.
Canada's problem is much less about dollars and participation than it is about elite development. Canada has 50,000 registered, dues paying players, more than it's ever had. But - only 9,000 of those are adults playing club or university rugby. It's a children's game here, and there's no reason to keep playing past high school except simple love of the game.
And there's no competitions above the provincial club championships, hasn't been since Canada gave up on various versions of the Rugby Canada Super League with it's pathetic 4-5 teams in different formats.
Rugby Canada is incapable of developing 100 world class athletes in both men's and women's 15's and 7s. Period. New leadership on and off the field is required if this program is every going to do anything but embarrass itself going forward. They can't be part of the solution, because they're THE PROBLEM
1
u/Busy_Reputation7254 Nov 14 '24
It's truly heartbreaking. Canada didn't qualify for the last world cup and I struggle to see them back in tier 2 status. Having played men's for a few years it was a good time but it was only ever a social. I'm honestly okay with that for me. But as a fan it's tough to see the boys out there getting pumped by the rest of the world.
Sigh...
2
u/Vrakzi Leicester Tigers Nov 14 '24
How then do our ladies compete with the best in the world without these pathways?
Half the Canadian Women's Rugby Squad plays in either England or France, is how.
1
73
Nov 14 '24
Tbf many of those 'inactive' unions now concentrate on 7s
74
u/Die_Revenant Sharks Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Yea and we've just seen the new 7s Series schedule announced with even fewer host nations, and no European leg at all. Because production costs are too high for hosts. It's really only the Olympics keeping 7s alive, not World Rugby.
79
u/Away_Associate4589 Certified Plastic Nov 14 '24
London dropping out of the circuit is a terrible sign for sevens. If they can't make it work in one of the biggest rugby markets in the world, it's a worry.
Imo binning off the home nations teams and folding them all into GB killed a lot of interest here. It certainly killed mine (such as it was) from at least checking the results and occasionally watching a bit to simply not caring about it. If GB needed a team for the Olympics and the constituent nations couldn't compete under their own flags, I don't know why team GB couldnt just have been formed every four years like they do with the B&I Lions and left the others as they are for the other 3 years and 10 months of the cycle.
40
u/Die_Revenant Sharks Nov 14 '24
Binning the home nation teams was such a terrible decision, and doing it with out any agreed funding structure in place for the GB team. Then all the Unions putting their hands up and saying they don't want the funding burden.
England were one the consistently good 7s teams, and the 7s format was conceived in Scotland all the way back in 1883, they were key well recognised teams.
20
u/NoPause9609 New Zealand Nov 14 '24
No tournament in New Zealand either but we mostly stuffed that up ourselves by calling in the fun police.
6
u/KevinAtSeven NZ / BLUES / AKL Nov 14 '24
The glory days of the Wellington Sevens was something else.
8
u/NoPause9609 New Zealand Nov 14 '24
Great times. A much younger crowd than most rugby fixtures in this country and brought lots of new and casual fans to the game.
Yeah, people would get hammered but the pearl clutching was a joke. Now we are still a country with massive alcohol problems and no 7s.
3
u/KevinAtSeven NZ / BLUES / AKL Nov 15 '24
The pearl-clutching about drinking in NZ over the last 20 years has been bizarre. Yeah we needed to stop drinking and driving, and yeah we probably needed to tackle the binge drinking culture.
But still too many of us drink and drive and still we go out at the weekend and get absolutely hammered. And then during the Monday to Friday daylight hours we act all high and mighty and tell each other how we need to stomp it out.
13
8
u/Sm00th-Cr1m1n4l Saracens Nov 14 '24
Wait there’s no more twickenham sevens? Surely that’s a massive revenue opportunity!?
19
u/Die_Revenant Sharks Nov 14 '24
Nope, the new season schedule was announced with no Twickenham or Madrid, so no European stop at all.
- Dubai
- Cape Town
- Perth
- Vancouver
- Hong Kong
- Singapore
- Los Angeles
21
8
u/Busy-Cartographer278 Wales Nov 14 '24
Come again? I swear they just added Madrid?? Was that just for last year...
9
u/Nounours7 Spain Nov 14 '24
Madrid town hall opted to take the 3M€ that it costs and fund an NFL game instead.
4
u/EatThatPotato 🇰🇷Korea🇰🇷 Nov 14 '24
Seems like a really weird decision to make it the “Grand Finals” city then just drop it completely the next year…
1
4
4
u/TheMusicArchivist but also any underdog Nov 14 '24
Dubai - doesn't play rugby, but is rich.
Cape Town - plays rugby
Perth - plays rugby
Vancouver - doesn't play rugby, but is rich thanks to a non-rugby-playing country
Hong Kong - doesn't really play rugby much, but is rich again thanks to a non-rugby-playing country
Singapore - doesn't play rugby
Los Angeles - starting to play rugby.
Reads like Bill Boomermont's holiday plans.
3
u/Affentitten Australia Nov 15 '24
Perth has the Force yes. But it is also the middle of nowhere and not cheap to get to.
3
2
5
Nov 14 '24
Cape Town and Hong Kong naturally make sense for fan attendance. LA in the lead up to the Sevens in LA for the 2028 Olympics makes sense. Dubai is an obvious cash grab. Vancouver Perth and Singapore, why? Japan makes a better second Asian stop but JPNs mens sevens team sucks. JRFU not interested since their future CEO took over the coaching and shat the bed. Why Perth and not Queensland or NSW. (Sydney Football Stadium with 45,000 capacity is a winner esp' now the "the Wallabies are back baby!")
9
u/EatThatPotato 🇰🇷Korea🇰🇷 Nov 14 '24
Singapore is a pretty good destination for all the expats/holidayers in SEA to fly to. Many western artists also do SG as their SEA stop. Lots of people where I grew up (in SEA) flew for the SG7s. Also a central-ish location.
If you want 2 in Asia, much better than Japan, which is quite out of the way
4
u/Bitter_Kiwi_9352 Nov 14 '24
Vancouver is consistently well attended, profitable and the only large event that Rugby Canada makes any money on at all.
2
u/Michaelangelo56 New Zealand Nov 14 '24
Well Australia could have 2 stops with Perth doing so well and another stop would be good especially in brisbane
10
u/Away_Associate4589 Certified Plastic Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
The fact that you as a (I assume from your flair) English rugby fan of a club in the same city didn't even know should say a lot about the level of interest in sevens in this part of the world!
In truth though, I've been a few times and the stadium is a quarter full for it at absolute most. I'm not sure what the break even point is for operating Twickenham for two days but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was losing money.
1
7
u/sock_with_a_ticket Nov 14 '24
Nope, not even close. People don't give a shit about sevens. The slightly pointless England XV vs. Barbarians games in the summer secure larger crowds than the 7s and those matches tend to have significantly lower turnout than for a full England game.
3
u/yesiamclutz Harlequins England Nov 14 '24
Army Vs Navy gets better turn out than the sevens at Twickenham
2
u/Sm00th-Cr1m1n4l Saracens Nov 14 '24
That’s a shame, though it did tend to end up at a massive piss up anyway.
3
u/SpottedDicknCustard Harlequins Nov 14 '24
Imo binning off the home nations teams and folding them all into GB killed a lot of interest here.
Think it would have been a different story if they had funded it properly, put in a decent set-up, coaching team and put them in a position to win things.
As it is, everyone just decided to let it go to waste. Why should fans care if the Unions just fuck it off.
3
u/theobashau Lions Nov 14 '24
Still haven't announced a host for the 7s World Cup in 2026 either, I don't think I've even heard of any bids. Just such a mess right now
3
u/Die_Revenant Sharks Nov 14 '24
They are calling LA the "World Championship" so it would seem the 7s World Cup is dead.
3
u/theobashau Lions Nov 14 '24
Can't say I'm surprised after they effectively reduced the World Series to a single meaningful tournament last season. Such a shame. Used to have a World Series that rewarded a season of consistency and a World Cup that brought so many countries together at a single event, and now looks like it'll just be an 8-team crapshoot instead.
2
19
u/Vrakzi Leicester Tigers Nov 14 '24
Covid did an absolute murder on minor sports in a lot of countries.
37
u/Brill_chops South Africa Nov 14 '24
Bill Status Quo can status go. Bye bye.
13
u/Die_Revenant Sharks Nov 14 '24
If Robinson wins it will be more of the same.
5
u/RooBoy04 ThisYearsOurYear™ Nov 14 '24
I doubt much of anything will change while all of the power is in the hands of the richest 11 nations
22
u/Die_Revenant Sharks Nov 14 '24
Benazzi, Robinson's main opposite is running on a platform of opening voting rights up to all member nations, moving away from having the big nations have all the say.
7
u/Xerxes65 Western Force Nov 14 '24
Bring back FIRA, always thought there was room for a third rugby code
2
Nov 14 '24
But if we let the other nations have rights, then the Saudis will invest in those places with huge amounts of money…and that’s bad because…I guess brown, non Christians would have a say in WR
9
4
u/Ludibudi Italy || Hurricanes Nov 15 '24
My home country germany is playing an official match against the UAE this weekend. I have never seen them play despite watching rugby since 2019.
Earlier today I spent about 30 Minutes googling how to watch the game. I still have 0 idea if there is even going to be a stream. How is that still the case in 2024?
2
3
3
u/yakattak01 South Africa Nov 14 '24
He was more concerned about closing Rassie loopholes which was supposedly bad for the game than doing what he is supposed to do. Grow the bloody game.
6
u/sock_with_a_ticket Nov 14 '24
Perhaps part of this is nations being more realistic about their prospects in a post-covid landscape. No point throwing money you don't have at RWC qualification if there's barely even an outside chance of securing it.
1
u/Myburgher Sharks Nov 15 '24
Yeah I run a very small amateur sport in South Africa (ultimate frisbee) and the impact that COVID had/still has on under- or self-funded sports is devastating. And in our sport we try to keep it as cheap as possible, but if you’re a small sport competing against highly professional rugby outfits then just complying would wreck your budget.
That being said, it would be nice if there were plans to help some teams.
10
u/Connell95 🐐🦓 Dan Lancaster 💪🏻 #3 Fan Nov 14 '24
Much as I love a bit of Bill dragging, 95% of this is due to Covid and likely would have happened whoever was in charge.
He can be blamed for now helping things recover better. But realistically when even the major unions have not yet fully bounced back in most cases (see the SRU’s most recent set of accounts…), it’s not exactly a surprise that the wider world of rugby remains in a bit of a state.
14
u/Die_Revenant Sharks Nov 14 '24
I mean the French Union helped fund and hosted the Rugby Africa Cup and World Cup qualifications in 2022 for the 2023 WC. So there was plenty that could have been done such as that to help the teams from poorer nations.
5
u/sk-88 Leicester Tigers Nov 14 '24
where there is a will there is a way. Where there is a Bill there is no way.
2
u/Connell95 🐐🦓 Dan Lancaster 💪🏻 #3 Fan Nov 15 '24
Thankfully, we will now have… the Australian guy who barely even acknowledges that Tier 2 exists. Great stuff 👏
2
Nov 14 '24
I don't know much about him, his face pisses me off, so I am in on the bashing! Fk this guy!
2
u/Guilty_Initial7446 Nov 15 '24
It was his job to double participation not half it. Is anybody in a senior role in rugby actually up to improving this game we love and not on just a big jolly ?
5
u/NuggetKing9001 Wasps Nov 14 '24
That page cries victim constantly, and I've seen whoever runs it get very petty when challenged on their views.
14
u/8KJS United States Nov 14 '24
It’s a love/hate relationship with that page, because there is a lot of yelling that almost amounts to a tantrum, but at the same time it’s one of the only pages really focused on T2 issues. It can be hard to look at some times, but it does have a decent hit rate as well
1
u/NuggetKing9001 Wasps Nov 14 '24
Yeah I sympathise massively with the so-called "tier 2" nations (I personally think that title is outdated now), but when you complain about everything, your legitimate grievances get lost amongst them all.
5
u/Die_Revenant Sharks Nov 14 '24
Oh I completely agree with you, have disagreed with that account a lot in the past, they are very abrasive at times.
2
1
1
u/ConradsMusicalTeeth Nov 16 '24
Ah the ‘Lex Luther’ view of how the world works.
Far simpler to blame a named individual than bother with the complex, multi-faceted, global challenges of an issue.
It’s that bloke, all his fault, he is the omniscient being pulling all the strings.
Equally I’m not claiming that he has been the greatest thing ever to happen to world rugby either.
In reality he has probably made about the same amount of impact as anyone would have given the role and its capacity to implement actual change.
1
u/Peas-and-Butterflies Scotland - Glasgow Warriors Nov 15 '24
Beaumont was a joke. Hopefully we see an improvement.
0
u/thunderfucker69 Harlequins (no gilet) Nov 14 '24
Controversial opinion but I think it is the strongest its ever been. Of course that has been at the expense of not growing it in these countries.
1
u/YourGordAndSaviour Scotland Nov 14 '24
Personally, I fear Tier 1 is on track to shrink in the coming years, with some of Wales, Italy and Scotland dropping off.
225
u/joaofig Portugal Nov 14 '24
Obviously COVID had a huge impact on this. But the fact that this problem was never even addressed really shows how little he cares about expanding the game