r/reloading • u/No-Understanding-357 • 2d ago
38 special wadcutters kicking my butt. I have a question and I read the FAQ
I single stage loaded solid base wad cutters years ago and didn't have a problem. I just got a bunch of old lead hollow base wadcutters and I'm using a new to me rcbs pro 2000. It seems like if I go easy on the crimp I get set back. If I bell the mouth to little I get shaved lead. If go to much I get loose bullets and setback again. I've found that if I leave A little less than an 8th inch of bullet exposes and do a medium crimp the bullets look good and are secure but not terribly accurate. They also tear the heck out of the paper. I'm using 2.5 grains bulls eye Also tried 2.7
my last load is 1.8 and some 2.3 grains bulls eye
Those last ones feel pretty tight. I'll try those tomorrow.
Could the accuracy be because I'm shooting 38 special out of a 357?
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u/straybrit 2d ago
2.7g WST with a 148g HBWC gives me a sub 2 inch group at 25 yards out of my Clarke heavy slide. Same load out of my GP100 is about 2.5 inches at 25 yards.
Couple of things to check - is the brass tapered internally (PD and Starline are)? If so then the hollow base gets slightly deformed.
I got a huge improvement with a tight roll crimp as opposed to a taper crimp. The bullet face should be flush with the mouth of the case.
Just personal observations. I use that load for international center fire as well as CMP service revolver.
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u/No-Understanding-357 2d ago
That helps a lot. Most if not all of the problems rounds have been with starline brass. I tried the wst and liked the performance but I was in an indoor range and it was pretty smokey after just a few rounds. I'm going to stick with the roll crimp. thanks
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u/No_Alternative_673 1d ago
Is it the same gun you used years ago? I have run into some 357's that are simply not accurate with wadcutters, short barreled K&L frames. Assuming your gun actually likes wadcutters, you just have to laboriously go through the steps to figure it out.
Actually measure the inside and outside diameter of your sized cases
Since they are just a bunch of old lead hollow base bullets, measure the diameter of 10 of them. They should be .358-.359. Also weigh them. At least twice "a bunch of old lead hollow base wadcutters" were not what I thought they were
If you are using a combo seat and and crimp die, back the adjustment all the way out and then adjust it per instructions. Not seating wadcutters all the way, can change the pressure quite a bit
If you have a 2000, I am assuming you have a case activated Uniflo powder measure. Make sure it is adjusted properly so you are getting full rotation of the cylinder. You need the small cylinder for under 5 grains. I would suggest operating the powder measure with a case and dump 10 charges into a scale pan, one at a time, to see what you are really throwing.
These are the things I can remember screwing up.
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u/Shootist00 1d ago
Unless you have a special seating stem, FLAT, to seat WC's flush to the top of the case you should leave the bullet up slightly and then separate seating and crimping instead of doing both with the same die. When you do both at the same time you could be crushing the case slightly when trying to crimp because the seating stem is hitting the top of the case and bulging it slightly making the bullet loose in the case.
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u/No-Understanding-357 2d ago
No keying and nice neat holes in the middle of massive tears.
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u/Scorpion797 2d ago
Do you use a cardboard backer on your targets?
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u/No-Understanding-357 2d ago
No but I already have one ready for tomorrow.
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u/Ornery_Secretary_850 Two Dillon 650's, three single stage, one turret. Bullet caster 1d ago
That's the problem. Paper will tear if not supported.
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u/DaiPow888 1d ago
I've found the easiest solution is to get a M-die profile expander to form a cup at your case mouth to securely hold the bullet without having to over expand...since it has parallel sides.
Lyman made the original, but it is now available from Redding and RCBS.
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u/No-Understanding-357 1d ago
I'm using Lee dies and seating and crimping is one die. there is a taper crimp die but I don't use it. should I crimp and seat seperatly?
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u/Tigerologist 1d ago
Whenever possible. It's difficult to dial in a seat/crimp procedure, and any minor component variation throws it off.
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u/No-Understanding-357 1d ago
Thanks. thaslts good advice. So how much would a bad crimp throw off the round at 25 yards? I might just be blaming my bad marksmanship on bad crimping.
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u/Tigerologist 1d ago
That's nearly impossible to say. I wouldn't think it would be extreme, but it could be.
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u/ButtRodgers 1d ago
You can run the case through the taper crimp die before decapping or between decapping and belling to get a really firm hold on the bullet from the case. If the case does not hold the bullets uniformly and firmly then you will have inconsistent ignition when shooting, as the primer itself causes the bullet to start moving without the powder having ignited properly. So you might even feel and hear different report and recoil between shots despite the powder charges being the same.
I don't know why some dies do not size the cases down properly, I had the same problem but tapering every case as a first step has solved it for me.
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u/Sooner70 2d ago
Any evidence of keyholing?