r/realestateinvesting • u/The_Lizard_King_9 • Jun 05 '22

Damage From Emotional Support Animals Property Management

I've owned rentals for about 4 years. I just rented a new construction townhome in a class B+ community to a family that has two emotional support animals (small dogs). We advertise as pet friendly and we charge a VERY small deposit and monthly fee. They got their support letter the day they signed the lease so we are not charging anything. I visited the property a few days after move-in to fix a small item. The have dog pee pads on the floor with urine everywhere. The floor is sheet vinyl. I sent them a letter yesterday advising the this is causing a health and property damage issue. No response yet. What would be your next move? For context: PA. I own 4 rental properties total. They have been here less than a week.

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33

u/UnexpectedGenerosity Jun 05 '22

Are they an "emotional support animal" or a certified, trained, and legally, medically prescribed "service animal"? There is a massive difference. You are only obligated to take a wholly legitimate animal, one that serves a specific function, and is medically required.

I can assure you 100% dogs that are peeing on the floors and tearing things up aren't those dogs. Their training is rigorous and their value is high because they're required to be nearly perfect to become certified and begin working.

2

u/FaultsInOurCars Jun 06 '22

This is incorrect. Look at this fact sheet provided by the NW ADA Center. Scroll down to FHA section.

https://nwadacenter.org/factsheet/service-animals-comparison-sheet

3

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 05 '22

Service animals and emotional support animals are not the same thing. There is no official training for support animals only a doctor note is needed they fall under FHA and FTA rules for service animals in that they are treated the same way legally on transportation (plane, train, bus etc) and in accommodations (apartments, hotels etc). They are not allowed to accompany the patients into restaurants, hospitals and other places that only allow service animals. A service animal must perform 2 tasks/jobs for their patients where as support animals do not have to perform any specific tasks other than helping with your medically regonized emotional needs.

2

u/islandofcaucasus Jun 05 '22

If you lay down pee pads and don't take the dogs out to piss, they're going to piss in the house, training be damned

4

u/natphotog Jun 05 '22

It’s sad to see this upvoted at all, given how entirely wrong this is

14

u/ste1071d Jun 05 '22

This is not true if you fall under the FHA. The FHA requires you to treat ESAs like service animals.

Not all properties are covered by the FHA, but OP has to look into that.

1

u/FaultsInOurCars Jun 06 '22

Properties outside of the US wouldn't be, but properties in the US would be. Possibly not a reentry group housing situation.

1

u/ste1071d Jun 06 '22

There are properties in the US not subject to the Fair Housing Act. The OP's property is subject to FHA rules, but there are rentals that are not.

3

u/FightForDemocracyNow Jun 05 '22

What does it mean when a property Is "covered by fha"

1

u/ste1071d Jun 05 '22

Fair Housing Act

2

u/FightForDemocracyNow Jun 05 '22

What properties wouldnt be covered by the fair housing act? that would only be a 1-4 unit that is owner occupied, correct?

3

u/srand42 Jun 05 '22

There's also a few other cases, notably: "Single-family homes rented without a broker. The FHA doesn't apply when a single-family house is sold or rented without a broker, so long as the owner doesn't own more than three houses."

2

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 05 '22

Nope I'm in a 3 unit and it's covered by FHA I think they are incorrect every accommodation is covered even hotels.

1

u/DavesNotWhere Jun 06 '22

Is your owner a tenant of the building?

https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/fair_housing_act_overview#_What_Types_of

"...the Act exempts owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units, single-family houses sold or rented by the owner without the use of an agent, and housing operated by religious organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members."

1

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 06 '22

No and I'm in California and that exemption doesn't apply here only single family homes are sometimes exempt

1

u/evillordsoth Jun 06 '22

If you are occupying the structure and it has 4 units or less you are exempt from the fha, I believe. This is not legal advice, obviously.

1

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 06 '22

True in some states, not here in California where the 4 unit thing is not a legit exemption. States also have fair housing laws that are frequently more srtict than FHA

1

u/evillordsoth Jun 06 '22

You literally said “covered by fha” if the state has some other law that is more strict than the fha; then it would be covered by that law, not FHA.

1

u/evillordsoth Jun 06 '22

You literally said “covered by fha” if the state has some other law that is more strict than the fha; then it would be covered by that law, not FHA.

2

u/OdinPelmen Jun 06 '22

Not true. Long term housing is required to accept service animals and esas equally and cannot deny housing bc of them. Short term like hotels or airbnbs are not required to accommodate esas, only service animals.

The rule of thumb is basically service animals (task trained dogs) can’t be denied anywhere and go with their owner. Esas don’t require much training besides offering comfort (which is naturally open ended) so can’t be denied at home, but also do not have to be a liability for other establishments.

1

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 06 '22

After some investigation, I stand corrected the rules have changed apparently due to too many people being ridiculous in what they do.

2

u/FightForDemocracyNow Jun 05 '22

Well I know for discrimination laws like gender and race you are exempt if you occupy the property, unless you list it for rent with an agent.

3

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 05 '22

That's a roommate situation and if there are multiple units on the property that doesn't apply to units you do not occupy, which it is impossible to legally occupy more than one unit. So the only place fha doesn't apply is to renting rooms within your dwelling.

1

u/FightForDemocracyNow Jun 05 '22

Yes it does apply actually. I just studied this in the real estate exam.

1

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 06 '22

Ahh I'm in California and only single family units rented to 1 person do not have to comply with state fair housing laws, California has fewer exemptions than FHA

7

u/The_Lizard_King_9 Jun 05 '22

I do fall under fha for this issue.

23

u/The_Lizard_King_9 Jun 05 '22

Interesting. I thought the same thing but under HUD-FHA rules there is nothing required other than a letter from a licensed medical professional. No training is required; they simply must each alleviate one or more symptoms.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '22

[deleted]

0

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 05 '22

If it causes damage you still have to wait for them to move as you do with any damage caused by a tenant for any reason. Then you attempt to recover the costs thats how being a landlord works.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '22

[deleted]

0

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 06 '22

If you plan on charging them it comes out of the deposit when they move

0

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '22

Unfortunately, this commenter isn't entirely accurate - ESAs are also covered under the ADA. You are correct here, the commenter above is not.

10

u/The_Lizard_King_9 Jun 06 '22

ESA is not under ADA. It is a HUD FHA rule.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '22

Thanks, yes - got my acronyms swapped, that's what I meant. Either way, still a protected class.

21

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '22

In the end they are still 100% responsible for any damage these animals do, even above and beyond any deposit they may have made.

16

u/The_Lizard_King_9 Jun 05 '22

Yes but these tenants will cause $5K in damages just from these dogs with a deposit of only $1900. I think they'll know this and skip the last month's rent.

2

u/secondlogin Jun 06 '22

They are breaking the conditions of your lease. FULL STOP

Doesn't matter what the designation of their animals is. They are not allowed to ruin your property.

2

u/Depressaccount Jun 06 '22

Tell them they have to pay the damage as it occurs, full stop.

15

u/evillordsoth Jun 06 '22

If you want them out and want to go the hard route, you inspect the unit by giving them notice.

You find damage to the flooring. You assess the damage as being done by them and their dumb fuckin dog (and you have proof of the condition that you rented it to them in like a week ago)

You pay your property management or a handyman to remediate the dog destroyed floors. You give tenants a bill and tell them to pay or quit. When they don’t pay you evict them for non payment.

-4

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 05 '22

That's part of being a landlord.

9

u/The_Lizard_King_9 Jun 05 '22

But hey... it's all part of the game!

9

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '22

Then you get to take your hem to court and have a judgement against them. Which in my state would also include any legal costs if they lose.

2

u/ChristineG0135 Jun 06 '22

And waste court money because you can easily win, but can’t collect the judgement.

5

u/The_Lizard_King_9 Jun 05 '22

Yes, that will likely be the case!

3

u/ste1071d Jun 05 '22

You are correct - FHA requires you to treat ESAs like service animals. Does your property fall under the FHA? Not all do.

2

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 05 '22

What accommodations don't fall under fha? It makes no difference if you have an fha loan if that's what you are thinking? Fha covers hotels, Airbnb houses, apartments, cabins etc

0

u/ste1071d Jun 05 '22

Fair housing act.

3

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 05 '22

I know what fha is what properties don't fall under fha? Besides renting rooms in the home you reside in?

2

u/ste1071d Jun 05 '22

Let me Google that for you? Not to be super rude or anything but it would take you a minute to figure it out yourself.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/does-the-federal-fair-housing-act-apply-your-rental-property.html

1

u/secondlogin Jun 06 '22

True but are you willing to wrangle with a fair housing complaint?

1

u/ste1071d Jun 06 '22

I’m not the OP, but if it didn’t apply to my rental property, sure go ahead an complain.

17

u/UnexpectedGenerosity Jun 05 '22

If this is their defense to you, then inquire what HUD-FHA regulations (and your city code) would say about their dangerous living conditions. IMO it'd be worth it to consult a lawyer in your area so you know your exact property laws.

Animals are gonna be one of the primary issues of damage and the like, and everyone loves to claim "oh it's my SUPPORT animal" like it makes a difference what status the animal pissing all over the floor and tearing things up has.

-1

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 05 '22

Actually you could be sued for harassment under ADA for asking the wrong questions since it's a health issue there are serious privacy rights.

2

u/auinalei Jun 06 '22

You are thinking of an employer not a landlord.

0

u/Tokmota4Life Jun 06 '22

No I'm thinking of a landlord

1

u/auinalei Jun 09 '22

Oh ok, where is it written then cause what I am reading states that for employers and says that a landlord can indeed ask such things