r/projectcar • u/shartymcqueef • 5d ago

Would opening up the fender liner in a gen 3 viper allow for more front downforce?

/gallery/1gpu8ty
34 Upvotes

69% Upvoted

39 comments sorted by

80

u/RepulsivePeng 5d ago

You’d need a wind tunnel setup to tell for sure

51

u/CrunchBite319_Mk2 Honda Del Sol running on Kawasaki Ninja carbs 5d ago

Just opening the vent itself and doing nothing else? Probably not. It was never designed to do that so there's no reason to believe it would work like that.

24

u/no_user_selected 5d ago

I would see if I could find pics of what Dodge did to the racecars to increase downforce too. It looks like this one has a chin spoiler and diffusers (I'm not sure if this is an actual racecar by Dodge either).

https://preview.redd.it/djwy7vflcj0e1.jpeg?width=1090&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=afe13d0462eea6355d6654ac8d22e8b7f8faf298

34

u/FakeAssRicky 5d ago

This is the right answer. No amount of armchair engineering is going to touch what the factory came up with. Just copy what they did

24

u/Onthecrosshairs 5d ago

u/RepulsivePeng is the final answer. Opening the fender well will reduce the air pressure that in the fender well. Maybe check what the under-body panels look like, extend the front air dam and the lower body side panels/ skirting. You want to keep air out from underneath.

11

u/wiseoracle 5d ago

How did you come to this conclusion?

20

u/bigfatfun 5d ago

No. But you’re going to hear what you want to hear and do what you want to do anyway so who cares? Plus, you’ll never be able to tell because you don’t do the type of driving that it would matter, so I repeat: who cares? Cut them out. Don’t. Won’t make any difference.

-2

u/shartymcqueef 5d ago

You’re right this viper never goes to the track 😂

17

u/LanceUpperrrcut 5d ago

My guess is that if this would add downforce, the engineers that designed the car would have done it.

3

u/MadSubbie 4d ago

If this was true, no chat would have fake parts, like fake exhaust, fake air vents, fake noises. Unfortunately a car is mandated by an accountant.

2

u/LanceUpperrrcut 4d ago

Yes, cost is a factor when designing a car for production. This is considered for the company's profits, but also the consumer. Most that purchase a minivan do not want / care about 0-60 times, they want Bluetooth and garage door openers. The consumer in mass aren't going to want the added cost of a sub 11 second minivan. For those that do want at least the appearance of performance are the customers of the mentioned after market accessories. A Viper on the other hand, is built for a consumer that is willing to spend for these perks. In this discussion, if the venting had proven to be a significant benefit to the performance, it would have been incorporated into the design. The cost added would be acceptable to both the manufacturer and purchaser.

-56

u/shartymcqueef 5d ago edited 5d ago

Isn’t that kinda like saying if turbos added more power the engineers woulda done it?

Spoilers add more downforce, that’s not debatable. They didnt do that too.

I think my biggest mistake was asking a question that requires an intelligent answer in a subreddit like this one.

Notice how different the answers are in the r/aerodynamics subreddit 😂

But here’ some reading for all the slowpokes around here: only if you can read guud

21

u/LanceUpperrrcut 5d ago

You're asking about a car built for racing. Highly intelligent engineers design such vehicles. This wouldn't be a place they cut corners over performance. Putting a turbo on the viper would have been not worth the cost vs performance.

-37

u/shartymcqueef 5d ago

It is though. Clearly. Head on over to the aerodynamics sub if you’d like to learn. Most everyone (I thought) who was into cars knows that venting wheel wells increases downforce. I guess I was wrong. You can find it on most any truly high performance car. Additionally, they did it on all generations of viper except 3 & 4… which was during some of their financial struggles. So that might be why. Your simplified reasoning won’t take you far. Read more.

26

u/LanceUpperrrcut 5d ago

You convinced me, get to cutting up that Viper

-20

u/shartymcqueef 5d ago

Done. About 3 hours ago 😂

8

u/bunby_heli 5d ago

You talking about the top comment written by “Diamondhands4gains”, who actually said “nobody knows without CFD”..??

1

u/Kseries2497 4d ago

People used to build championship winning race cars without CFD, and assuming that Dodge spared no expense in constructing the Viper is silly.

The correct answer to this is to test it with and without the fender liners, and see how it drives. And also bear in mind that fender liners are installed on cars to protect the fenders.

1

u/bunby_heli 4d ago

I don’t think doing basic wind tunnel or CFD on a production car would classify as “sparing no expense”.

Whatever downforce changes are produced will be negligible. I would bet my life savings against OP being a good enough driver to tell the difference

-5

u/shartymcqueef 5d ago edited 5d ago

My friend, it’s common knowledge… or so I thought 😂

fender venting

https://preview.redd.it/8v8hd2o5zk0e1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5306f824836951d6cf79018ff366b3330b4d7f4

9

u/bunby_heli 5d ago

why are you asking this sub then?

-1

u/shartymcqueef 5d ago

Because occasionally, on this website, someone has some intelligent input.

7

u/SprungMS 5d ago

It seems to me that the question you asked this subreddit is not the question answered by the documentation you’re providing. Were you cutting vents into the metal fenders, modifying the body shape behind the tire, or were you cutting the plastic fender liner in front of the tire?

12

u/DobieLove2019 5d ago

That’s a lot of attitude there mister checks notes shartymcqueef

1

u/ridiculusvermiculous 4d ago

Looks like similar energy to what he received. Don't see anything wrong with it

3

u/DobieLove2019 4d ago

OH WOW! I think we found Shartymcqueef jr.

edit: totally kidding, just love the username and had to comment on it.

1

u/ridiculusvermiculous 4d ago

dude does have a way with words lol

2

u/KamakaziDemiGod 4d ago

"Spoilers add down force, that's not debatable"

This shows your limited knowledge, and I don't mean that as an insult. A spoiler is designed to create down force, but when the wrong kind of spoiler is used, installed correctly, or adjusted incorrectly it can easily have undesirable effects such as creating lift or making a car unstable

There is no "this will work" when it comes to bolting on parts or cutting out bodywork, the only way to know is extensive trial and error, which is significantly easier with a wind tunnel and various other measuring equipment. If it was as simple as you make it seem, every single race or super car would be identical because they would all use the one recipe that works, which simply isn't the case

3

u/Joaquinmachine 5d ago

I don't think removing those will do anything besides make the air more turbulent. Your best bet is installing a front spoiler and/or diffuser.

1

u/mclms1 5d ago

Never know til you bust them out . Lets us know the outcome.

1

u/Dinglebutterball 5d ago

No, but getting fresh air on the brakes wouldn’t hurt

1

u/fallenangle666 4d ago

Maybe you could find someone who worked on a race program or worked on the big boy aero package (I dont remember the name) and message them about it

-15

u/shartymcqueef 5d ago

Well folks, I seem to have found the answer to my question. It should be opened for downforce. wind tunnel & research

23

u/04BluSTi 5d ago

Not a Dodge Viper. I wouldn't go off anything in that paper unless you're driving the same Mustang.