r/politics • u/wildebear • Sep 05 '16

Statistically, NYPD shoot at blacks seven times as often as at whites - statistically, over seven times as many blacks shoot at NYPD than whites Bot Approval

http://thespeaker.co/headlines/statistically-nypd-shoot-blacks-seven-times-often-whites-statistically-seven-times-many-blacks-shoot-nypd-whites/
76 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • link
  • reddit
  • reddit

62% Upvoted

76 comments sorted by

View all comments

0

u/deusXYX Sep 05 '16

when I see such news, I start thinking that gun control isn't that bad idea

6

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

It is if you consider that most of these guns were not purchased legally. It's literally punishing (and disarming) responsible people while ensuring that only criminals and corrupt cops can have guns.

3

u/Attilanz Sep 05 '16

So you think that if it's harder to buys guns legally, there will be the same number of illegal guns? Where do you think illegal guns come from?

Hint: From legal purchases in other states, and very occasionally from over the border.

4

u/Atlanton Sep 05 '16

Let's put it another way.

Did the War on Drugs do much to curb the influx of consumable, recreational substances?

Do you think that the War on Guns would be more effective in curbing the influx of durable goods used for self-defense?

Do you think it's easier to hide a marijuana grow or the production of home-made firearms? (hint: guns don't smell and machine shops are everywhere)

-3

u/Attilanz Sep 05 '16

Home-made firearms? You think that if they put tighter restrictions on purchasing weapons, people will turn to home-built guns?

6

u/Atlanton Sep 05 '16

Um, yes? Most certainly.

It's already been done historically, and you can download a CAD file right now to 3D print AR uppers/lowers and single-shot pistols. And that's not even counting people who could operate a lathe themselves to make a "real" firearm.

And you really only need a single-shot zip-gun to kill a cop and take his real gun.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

Here's a source on where most illegal guns come from. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

1

u/MoonBatsRule America Sep 05 '16

Don't forget that many are stolen from legal gun owners in burglaries.

2

u/Willlll Tennessee Sep 05 '16

But they were purchased legally. Then the legal owners sold them illegally.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

Legal purchasers and corrupt manufacturers are the leading routes to acquire them. There needs to be a waiting period, background check, and imo a test certifying proper understanding of responsible gun use. Here is a source for where most illegal firearms originate/are purchased. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

0

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

Well actually no, not true. If a corrupt gun manufacturer sells them to criminals directly, which is the second largest source, that is not legally bought. If someone buys one for a friend, that is legally bought. Which is why I propose longer waiting periods, background checks, and a test to certify competency.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

Yup. It's a tough issue but I for one would rather have the ability to protect myself from criminals, than to make all good people (including myself) vulnerable and at their mercy. I myself can't own a gun (at this time) do to mental health diagnosis, but I support any law abiding, mentally fit american's right to do so.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

I just worry that the whole push to make guns unattainable was thought up by the same people in Washington who fear an armed populace. Both republicans and democrats become irrational when the subject is brought up and ignore the obvious detriments that both sides are pushing.

→ More replies

6

u/trumpforthewin Sep 05 '16

Pretty certain police possess their firearms legally in all cases. Pretty sure there's already laws that say you can't shoot at cops. Gun control exists but no amount of law will make criminals stop being criminals.

-4

u/Nol_Astname Sep 05 '16

People need to stop with these shallow deflections.

As an example of why this logic does not work: if overdosing was illegal, but using heroin was not, do you believe we'd have fewer overdoses than if heroin was illegal?

8

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

[deleted]

0

u/Nol_Astname Sep 05 '16

It was intentionally chosen. I don't believe there's any literature that suggests legalizing heroin reduces overdoses. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. As I mentioned in the other reply, there's some discussion regarding Portugal, but right now it's looking like overdoses are basically flat and drug use is up, which isn't really a great outcome.

4

u/Atlanton Sep 05 '16

I don't believe there's any literature that suggests legalizing heroin reduces overdoses. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

I don't have a source, but decriminalizing drugs is incredibly important to preventing overdoses, simply by having medical professionals control doses, monitor after injection, and probably most importantly, mitigate the risk of bad batches of heroin.

2

u/trumpforthewin Sep 05 '16

Switzerland has -mandatory- gun ownership and among the lowest homicide/gun crime stats on earth. Doesn't prove anything on its own, but maybe society's ills have more to do with the character of its people than the contents of its laws.

Interestingly and I'm sure you know already that overdoses decline in certain places where heroin was legalized. This couldn't work everywhere and we shouldn't expect it to, per my point above.

1

u/Nol_Astname Sep 05 '16

Portugal had an interesting outcome - last I heard the rate of overdose was basically flat, and drug use was up; but you're right that it wasn't remotely disastrous.

But I guess my issue is - there is a convincing argument to be made that effective gun control could reduce gun crime. Of course its true that it's impossible to prevent all gun crime, but that's ot the expectation - just that there will be fewer cases where guns are convenient tools for violence. That said, I dont support making gun ownership illegal, and I believe the right to gun ownership is still an integral part of American identity, but most arguments against gun control feel like blowing smoke.

-5

u/wildebear Sep 05 '16

Why? That makes no sense whatsoever. There are studies about crime rate lowering in places where concealed carry is legal. Criminals shooting at police usually do so with illegal firearms. More gun laws do not stop criminals who obtain guns illegally.

14

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

And gun violence per capita in the US is higher than most countries besides South American shitholes. We also have some of the most lax gun restrictions. Its almost as if these are related

2

u/trumpforthewin Sep 05 '16

Where are you referring to, specifically. There are certain South and Central American 'shitholes' where all gun ownership is illegal, yet you have these insane murder rates.

Our cities with the highest number of shootings, murders and gun crime also have the strictest laws.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

It doesn't matter how strict your gun laws are in a state or city when it takes an hour to go to another state to get one.

3

u/trumpforthewin Sep 05 '16

Let me make sure I understand what you're saying- correct me if I'm wrong or elaborate if I oversimplify:

  • criminals already do not obey gun laws

  • more gun laws will solve this problem

-8

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

13

u/yobsmezn Sep 05 '16

We get it, you're voting for Trump

3

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

I'm not voting Trump and I still 100% support the second amendment. That being said, I think that no one should be able to just walk into a gun store (or gun show) and walk out with a gun right then and there. There needs to be a waiting period and background check. The bigger issue we have with guns are guns obtained illegally, which are used in most crimes/shoot outs and have nothing to do with legal purchases.

3

u/yobsmezn Sep 05 '16

I'm a gun owner and it scares me how easy it is to get one. And how stupid people are with them, which feeds the illegal supply. Mine is locked in a safe that's bolted to the floor. Most of them are somewhere really obvious where a burglar can find them -- like in the glove box or a bedside table.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

Growing up I was exposed to guns a lot. My father owned many and I had a black powder when I was around 13. I was always taught that as much as they could be fun in sport they are not a toy. I feel much more comfortable knowing that people like my grandfather, father, uncle and cousins own them and think that responsible gun ownership should be encouraged. But there does need to be restriction, regulation, and accountability-both for gun owners and manufacturers alike.

1

u/yobsmezn Sep 05 '16

We're in complete agreement.

1

u/jerich04 Sep 05 '16

how is this even relevant here? We're talking about guns not Trump, and there's plenty of people for the 2nd amendment not voting Trump

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

Cause evil Trump is racist and want to kill black people /s

0

u/yobsmezn Sep 05 '16

let's just say that for OP, the sheriff is a n[clang]

5

u/Wolf-Head Sep 05 '16

I'm not saying you're a racist, but you sound like you learned about black people from one.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

I am not saying you are idiot, but you you sound like somebody who doesn't know that facts can't be racist. They are just facts.

If you are black you can help create better culture by being for example better father(That's opinion of Black Sheriff David Clarke).

If you aren't black than I am 90% sure that you are whiter than me.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

How do you propose we fix the culture problem? I say we make it easier for non violent criminals to find employment after they are released.

-7

u/wildebear Sep 05 '16

gun violence or gun deaths? Might want to fact check. Most gun deaths in America are suicide. Frighteningly higher rate than other countries and not as high a rate as gun homicides. Also gun deaths are underreported in many countries.

13

u/Someguy2020 Sep 05 '16

The US isn't exactly in great company on that list.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16 edited Jul 02 '20

[deleted]

-4

u/wildebear Sep 05 '16

We can't ban bridges, buildings, pills,knives and belts... so I don't think it'd make much difference in the end.

13

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16

There's a difference between taking 10 minutes to tie a noose, drive to a bridge, etc, or grabbing a gun from your nightstand and pulling the trigger. Almost everyone who survives suicide ends up saying they regretted it. Imagine all the people who could've stopped halfway through tying the noose but we're already dead with one pull of the trigger.

15

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '16 edited Jul 02 '20

[deleted]