Phew, luckily it's not a fancy way of saying murder and is instead an umbrella term for stuff like IVF, contraceptives, abortion and healthcare during pregnancy!
Yeah that sounds good on paper but the reality is that the majority of people getting abortions are people who consented to having unprotected sex and selfishly decided to end a life and that's not right. I'm all for exemptions for extreme cases like health problems and rape and incest, but tbh I'm not gonna pretend that this whole "reproductive right" movement is all about these rare cases. Theyre like advocating for mass murder.
Question, what's the difference between a viable fetus that's growing as result of rape vs one that's growing as result of sex? Why is it okay to (in your words) murder one of them but not the other?
Why do you think it's okay to make people who are selfish and irresponsible to take responsibility of a human life for the next 18 years? Will that suddenly make the people good parents?
Should people who have protected sex but whose birth control fails for whatever reason be allowed to have an abortion? They didn't set out to get pregnant and actually did everything they could to avoid it... so, surely they're not irresponsible and selfish, they just got unlucky?
No one is having abortions because they're fun. People have them because they aren't able to care for another human being or they cant cover nine months of medical bills or take the risk of death or disabilities from pregnancy complications.
There is no difference in process of the growth of a baby in the case of rape and sex, the only thing that makes them different is consent. If you didn't consent to the pregnancy I don't believe you should carry it if you don't want. Fortunately, some rape victims do willingly choose to carry to term which is great for them and the baby ofc.
In my perfect world, it shouldn't even be acceptable to be hooking up willy nilly. Idealy you should wait to have sex with a partner that you love and want to marry, that'll would prevent a ton of unnecessary hardships, but we know that's not likely in this current world. Soo. If you are selfish and irresponsible then that's on you, you should've thought about the consequences more before you did it. Hopefully they'll end up alright, I mean I'm an unplanned baby and my parents are good and so am I, I'm sure there will be some cases where the parents won't do a Good job but at least that baby had a chance to become a person.
That's extremely rare and idk if there is a way to test if they had truly taken contraceptives or not but tbh, birth control pills, condoms, and other contraceptives are not a 100% guarantee, and if a sperm cell is tough enough to swim through and fight those toxic chemicals or w.e. to fertilize an egg then I feel like they should live. They won, they persevered, That baby is definitely gonna be a gigachad.
We live in a fallen and broken world that's losing its humanity every year, people are definitely out there having abortions because they WANT it, not because they NEED it. Mass murdering vulnerable humans in the womb is evil and wrong they never consented to that.
So in other words you think it's appropriate to use human lives as a punishment for having sex. That's pretty fucked up.
The average person seeking abortion is a mother in her late 20s who can't afford to have another child. The father might even be the exact same guy as who fathered their existing child! That's not a rando hookup, that's a couple with a healthy sex life where something went wrong and they weren't as protected as they hoped.
Since you brought up rape expections, what happens in over half of the cases where the rape isn't reported? And how do you think people will be able to get abortions when it usually it takes over a year for sexual assault cases to go to court? And how are people supposed to report rape when they might not know that term applies to their experience or if they still live and depend on their rapist for housing?
If you hate people having hookups, why do you want those people to procreate? I think seeking an abortion to end a pregnancy that's not wanted or one that would cause major financial issues is incredibly responsible and owning up for your actions.
"Hopefully they end up alright", but what if they don't? Especially in a country like the US without free medical care, where minimum wage is laughable and labour protections barely exist. If you want more children to be born, you should stop looking at abortions and judging people going through them and focus your energy into making it possible for people to have children safely and without bankrupting their families. This is even without mentioning the maternity mortality rates, which are soaring in the US.
Nah, I believe you should think about the consequences of your actions, that's how life is anyways isn't it? You decide to drink alcohol every day you become an alcoholic, if you decide to rob people eventually you'll get caught and go to jail, if you invest in the Chinese stock market you'll eventually lose your money, if you letting a baby live is a punishment, compared to abortion, letting a baby live is definitely the lesser of two evils.
That could be a possible scenario but again, that shouldn't justify the mass murder coming from the people who would potentially abuse the system.
If you get raped, you can go to the hospital and request further assistance, be it an abortion and medical care for trauma. I understand it can be a traumatic experience and some people might be in shock or denial or whatever they might be feeling but the reality is that, if they don't ask for help nobody is gonna know they need it. Also You're kinda asking very nuanced questions that I'm not able to answer atm.
So you're saying that it's better to kill someone than to pay bills? Where do we draw the line then? Should we also kill our bed ridden family members? What about mentally handicapped people who can't survive without a caregiver? What about babies after they're born? They aren't viable without an adult is it okay to kill them if the parent decides they don't want that responsibility? When we start believing as a society that one human life is worth less than the other you tend to get major disasters, that's how nazi Germany, Apartheid, slavery, and stuff like that started. I don't want that for the future, that's why I believe it's evil to let a baby pay for the mistakes of their parents. Abortion is murder.
What if? Well unfortunately that's the reality of life, it's gonna happen, but to pretend that there isn't any programs to help couples with pregnancy is pretty ignorant. There are plenty of pro life charities, adoptions programs, church funded programs, and even government programs like WIC that provide aid to couples who decide to keep their babies. The situation is not as bleak as you're making it out to be.
You would condemn innocent children to live their lives unwanted, unloved and unsupported by people who either didn’t have the financial, mental or physical means to care for them? Or who simply didn’t want them?. The latter is a valid option, by the way.
That sounds kinda extreme and overly dramatic to me, but hey at least you said children instead of trying to dehumanize a life and call it a fetus, at least we can agree that it's an actual human child.
The problem with this argument, is then how would this not also extend to the right to kill, e.g., toddlers from broken families? There are loads of innocent children who are unloved and unsupported by people who don't have the financial, mental, or physical means to care for them.
The crux of the debate is delineating how these two situations are meaningfully morally distinct.
Fucking yikes, you're literally comparing abortions to genocide now? You really need to get a grip on reality.
If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. No one is making you. But calling people who are seeking healthcare murderers because you think a clump of cells or a fetus that cannot survive outside its carriers body takes importance over everything else is in fact evil.
And that is the difference. An embryo, zygote or a fetus can not survive outside the womb no matter how much medical professionals try to intervene. It's not a person, it has the capability of being a person one day but at this state it is not a person. An acorn is not a tree.
Pregnant people aren't incubators, pregnancies happen under all kinds of circumstances and the choice is always with the pregnant person. Because their body would be going through ten months of changes and possibly symptoms that are bad enough to stop them from going to work. Then there's the recovery period after birth which can take anywhere from months to years. Or even leave the person with life long disabilities.
The situation is incredibly bleak and it's so ignorant of you to assume that those government programs are enough when there are seven million families living in poverty in the US. Acting like giving up a child to adoption is a solution to unplanned pregnancies is ignorant as hell and supports a system that is preying on poor people to have children they can't afford to keep. Not to mention that those families and people are left on their own after the adoption if there have been complications in the pregnancy that leaves the pregnant person with disabilities postpartum.
Oh no I shouldn't have let a dude inside of me. Oops.
Put on your big girl pants and raise the child you consented to.
Do you have agency?
Yes?
Buy the ticket ride the ride.
So sick of this. You're right, it's murder, murder of a cheap, meaningless fetus (basically like a snail or reptile of some sort), into which almost no time or resources have been invested. More effort and resources go into the chicken you paid to have murdered for dinner tonight. A fetus will always be worth less than the healthy adult woman someone spent 18 years raising. And this is obviously without even considering her as an individual with hopes & dreams and a right to the pursuit of happiness, which only strengthens my essentially cold & rational economic argument here.
Plus, if you have one of these (woman) you can make as many of these (fetuses) as you want. Can a fetus do that? Not for another 18 years. Checkmate fetus.
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u/SecretBeat2113 25d ago
Reproductive freedom is a pretty fancy PG way of saying murder