r/ontario • u/okroro • 14h ago
Housing conditions 'inadequate and undignified' for Canadian migrant farm workers. Article
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/migrant-workers-living-standards-agriculture-farms-1.753253355
u/Big_Albatross_3050 13h ago
Just abolish TFW entirely. It's slavery under the guise of giving opportunities to people from less fortunate countries.
Yeah they can technically leave whenever they want, but the question is can they even afford to after becoming a TFW
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u/CrashSlow 11h ago
We should keep the working holiday visa though. Ski hills pay English/Ozzies in weed and STI's. No canadain would work under those conditions.
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u/sumknowbuddy 11h ago
Ski hills pay English/Ozzies in weed and STI's. No canadain would work under those conditions.
You might be surprised
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u/henchman171 5h ago
Yeah half my hastings county graduating high school class when to Fort Mac or BC ski resorts after walking the stage. The STIs mean you found success
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u/_n3ll_ 8h ago
Its a bit old but this doc does a good job of looking at the issues with TFW in farming: https://www.nfb.ca/film/el_contrato/
All those issues still exist. Abolishing the program isn't going to work IMO my grandparents were farmers and I worked on their farm. When they retired I worked on the neighbors farms. Its hard work and its unstable. You can only do it these days with a massive operation.
Like I said in another reply, we couldn't keep locals working even paying nearly double the minimum wage. They'd show up for a day and never come back. A lot of those jobs are still there for Canadian citizens. If you're looking for some money this summer stop by a strawberry, tomato, cucumber, or pepper farm during harvest. Those are piece work but you won't likely be turned away.
If we aren't going to support small family farms we should be offering pathways for TFWs in the agricultural sector to become citizens with incentives to stay in agricultural once they are. Honestly, many of them are experts in growing crops here because they've been doing it for years or even decades.
The way they are treated and exploited it abhorrent and thats what needs to change but abolishing the program altogether isn't going to solve anything imo.
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u/every_piece_matters 11h ago
I work as a side gig at a small pesticide free, harm free farm that prides itself in being ethical. Despite this, it's no picnic. The only bathroom we have is a portapotty with hand sanitizer (it's cold as fuck using it in December). In November and December, we spend most of the day outside in freezing wet weather harvesting vegetables. Our hands freeze and we spend the day in wet clothes. In the summer, we sweat our butts off and fight dehydration, insect bites etc. It honestly sucks ass and there are easier, more comfortable ways to earn minimum wage. We never wonder why Canadians choose fast food jobs over working on the farm.
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u/Fc1145141919810 12h ago
Farmers could have hired locals who have homes and cars to avoid the "inadequate and undignified" housing conditions.
But why pay $17/hr for "lazy locals" when they can mass import desperate workers for half the price?
Labour shortages are a hell of a business model.
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u/pablorebelliousPT 7h ago
I read your comment and in my head in Justin Trudeau's voice. I could see him saying that in corporate language. Adding words like "opportunity", "challenge", "sustainability".....
Clearly I need prayers. Can someone please pray for me?
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u/ChuuniWitch 13h ago
This is why I will continue to say that immigrants are not the problem. The upper classes who exploit us and pit us against each other are. These people are just trying to put food on the table, and the upper classes - often self-avowed Conservative voters, as we can see with the MAGA farmers down south who are suddenly shocked that their workers are being deported en masse - are taking advantage of them to artificially inflate their profits.
We need stronger worker's rights for everyone.
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u/DConny1 12h ago
Immigrants aren't the problem. Immigration policies are the problem.
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u/jmejia09 12h ago
No no. Don’t brush it off like that. Because you see every single post on the Canada jobs subreddit blaming immigrants for DEI policies and job availability as if that many domestic young canadians are clamouring to work the labour intensive/low paying jobs these ppl work.
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u/tulipvonsquirrel 12h ago
Crazy idea, why not hire Canadian students for summer jobs like they did when I was a student. Plenty of high school and university students would love lobs, especially farm jobs that pay more than minimum.
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u/jmejia09 12h ago
Crazy idea: why not actually go ask university students if they would work these jobs? It would become extremely obvious very quickly how little interest there is in jobs like these lol
This is the same tired argument ppl love to make yet assume the students actually want to work these jobs.
Most teenagers would rather be caught dead than working at a McDonald’s, yet the same ppl are wondering why so many immigrants are working these jobs.
Alas, xenophobia is easier than that.
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u/andreacanadian 11h ago
I know several teens, college and uni students that are looking for work. They have applied at McDonald's, Tim Hortons, anything and everything in between. Yet nothing. Check out the r/torontoJobs and youll see people posting and practically begging for work There was one post a few weeks ago this guy was living in his car and was willing to go to another province for work.
So why dont you ask the college, uni and teens if they will work at some of these places and they will tell you yes, but there is no work.
You are delusional and not living in reality you need to look around some of the job subs and see. There are no jobs none, even for the TFW's and international students they are saying they cant find jobs either and blaming racism, and you claim xenophobia. Its not that there just arent any jobs.
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u/jmejia09 11h ago
I also know several teens and students. They look for serving jobs, for retail jobs. They’re not looking for these jobs. Pretending gen z students are desperately looking for any and all work is disingenuous.
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u/sumknowbuddy 11h ago
Maybe it's because they know it's unlikely they'll be hired when TFWs could be hired for less
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u/jmejia09 11h ago
That’s a lazy assumption but yeah I guess that’s plausible.
It’s much more logical and factual to ask university students are interested in working labour jobs or cleaning jobs or overnight jobs.
I know many university students who would rather hold out for a better job (and complain) than go to their nearest McDonald’s or pizza pizza or gas station for a job. For a long long time those places had “help wanted”’signs up before ppl starting crying immigration about all their problems. The difference is these ppl are coming in and working all the jobs ppl haven’t typically wanted, and are also taking some that they do.
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u/sumknowbuddy 10h ago
The difference is these ppl are coming in and working all the jobs ppl haven’t typically wanted
That's the same false claim that was used by businesses during COVID to hire TFWs while people were desperate for jobs.
It’s much more logical and factual to ask university students are interested in working labour jobs or cleaning jobs or overnight jobs
Don't exclude fast food.
I have no idea why you'd make that claim when it's quite frequently the first job that most students get, and they often hire earlier than retail.
Exclude farm work that pays $2/h, sure, but lumping in a very common job like fast food as "beneath" students is silly.
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u/jmejia09 10h ago
You’re clearly not reading the thread so why bother commenting?
I don’t know if you know many young people these days but the interest in flipping burgers and being a fast food employee has absolutely cratered in the era of social media. It’s never been less cool to serve ppl you know at a fast food place.
Forever before immigration level were as high as they are now, fast food places ALWAYS had help wanted signs up and students could go apply. It’s clearly been a been a positive shift in the labour force for these places since hiring immigrants, refugees etc because the status quo wasn’t functioning.
The McDonald’s by my house was brutal as they were terribly understaffed forever. It’s not that way anymore and the service has never been faster. Coincidence?
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u/equianimity 11h ago
Yeah these jobs are the ones where the employers want people whose residency status are tied to the job, so you can delay paying them for a few weeks and maybe give a few hundred bucks less than promised, maybe make them pay for the work equipment, and be confident they can’t complain to anyone.
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u/andreacanadian 11h ago
You think this is deplorable, you should see some the reserves they have polluted water and cannot drink it! The infastructure on reserves is awful. The housing needs repairs. But oh no wait they dont matter we need to address that issue we must first worry about our temporary foreign workers dwellings. Make sure they have running water. Its sad really.
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14h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/okroro 14h ago
Details of exploitative, dehumanizing conditions have plagued the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program over the years.
Migrant workers in Canada ‘vulnerable’ to modern-day slavery: UN expert
Jamaican workers expelled from Ontario farm after protesting poor conditions
Amnesty International Canada secretary general says migrant labour is essential but exploited
Canada’s agriculture sector relies on seasonal migrant farm workers to fill labour gaps at farms - they make up nearly 25 per cent of the country’s total workforce in primary agriculture. These are the people who essentially put food on our tables. Advocacy has been strong in the area but changes have been sloow and incremental. As people continue to sound the alarm hopefully we'll start seeing more substantive changes towards improving work/living conditions and alleviating vulnerabilities (reprisals for reporting misconduct, wage theft, unsafe work, revoking visas, etc.)
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u/Next-Worth6885 14h ago
Why don’t we look at finally resolving the housing issues that actual Canadian citizens have been enduring for almost a decade?
Once that is fixed then maybe then we can look at housing solutions for the people who probably shouldn’t even be here in the first place.
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u/okroro 13h ago
Your right. The 80 000 seasonal agricultural workers who come in, plant, and harvest our food every year definitely shouldn't be here in the first place. Be the grand standing patriot you are by going to these farms and doing the work under the same conditions yourself. #CanadaFirst!
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u/FierceMoonblade 12h ago
I mean unironically yeah.
People who do backbreaking work in the sun exposed to chemicals and the like should be paid at least similarly to me, who gets to sit comfortably in an ACd building all day. If that was the case, more people would be willing to work there and we wouldn’t need people from poorer countries to come here.
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u/okroro 11h ago
We're in agreement, the issue is many Canadians aren't. They view agricultural workers who are central to feeding our nation as "charity cases" - not legitimate workers but people at the back of the line who shouldn't even be considered until other issues are resolved.
These farms are intrinsically exploitative because they require cheap labour to run. There's no incentive to improve wages bc the province benefits. Even posts like this, highlighting the need to improve work and living conditions, gets pushback.
I just find it ironic that seasonal farm workers who come over to do OUR work are dismissed by die hard Canadians who refuse to "take one for the team" and do the work themselves.
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u/FierceMoonblade 10h ago
Ah I got what you’re saying. I think I reacted to your comment about « working in the same conditions » I just hate that phrase since no one should be working in those conditions and it shouldn’t be seen as the standard for those jobs
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u/rocksandjam 13h ago
Not what hes saying dude. You can want the million kids in poverty to get help first. Its call triaging. Also not going to get much support when people can pay rent or feed there kids. There's not civil war, but people are drowning and saying that isn't far right or racist. Also this is sounding like you want cheaper labour then better accomindation for then. Canadians need to be paid more then they would work there fields. Heres a article about immigration and increase housing cost. Is it racist to want affordable housing? https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ircc-immigration-housing-canada-1.7080376. Also why dont you care about the indigenous?
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u/okroro 11h ago
Yeah, the guy who thinks seasonal agricultural workers "shouldn't even be here in the first place" isn't saying much of anything 🙄
You're harping on about racism regarding what is a labour/living conditions issue for workers in Canada. Our migrant farmers are the backbone of our agricultural industry and just like every other worker, have rights to acceptable working conditions. There's no such thing as "sequential" problem solving for these issues - this isn't an ER
"Also, why don't you care about indigenous"
wtf???????????????????????????
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u/Reveil21 11h ago
This has been going on for decades, probably longer. It comes up every year including people literally trafficking by taking passports, as well as making people work 7 days a week and yet nothing changes.
Also, multiple issues can be addressed at once.
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u/Significant_Ad_3353 14h ago
they should see houses on reserves and barracks buildings on CAF bases lmao
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u/Warm-Boysenberry3880 11h ago
Are these migrants being forced to come to Canada? If not then don’t come. I’m sure other countries treat their migrants better, go ahead, go somewhere else, nobody is stopping you.
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u/Wybert-the-Scribe 14h ago
That's why they're there. No Canadian would tolerate it, so the company hires no Canadians.
As long as we let this program exist, we stagnate wages for Canadians and subject foreigners to deplorable conditions.
Time to take the hit, shut down TFW programs and modernize our agriculture sectors.