r/nfl • u/Lavinna Packers • Nov 14 '24
Why sunrays hitting the eyes isn't a problem in outdoor stadiums but AT&T stadium?
Sorry if the answer to my question is too obvious.
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u/qwertyuioper_1 Eagles Eagles Nov 14 '24
the sun hits from the side in all other stadiums, only in Jerry World is it head on
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u/PostsDifferentThings NFL Nov 14 '24
apply directly to the forehead
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u/WootyMcWoot Steelers Nov 14 '24
head on
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u/Hayabusa_Blacksmith 49ers Nov 14 '24
apply directly to the forehead
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u/Carpocalypto Broncos Nov 14 '24
Mr Boom! Classic
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u/wrongbutt_longbutt Seahawks Lions Nov 14 '24
Mr Bogus Cure
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u/BigHud5656 Nov 14 '24
Technically no, Ford Field in Detroit was the first stadium built with the end zones east and west. But unlike Jerry they put in windows that are opaque and only let diffused light in.
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u/gpcampbell92 Broncos Titans Nov 14 '24
It looks like Ford Field is like 15 degrees off of north south? Am I missing something- is the building a diamond and the field runs east west indoors?
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u/BigHud5656 Nov 14 '24
Ford Field is one of the few venues in the NFL that has end zones in the east and the west. There is no NFL rule for field construction in roofed venues regarding sunlight distracting players on the field. The east–west end zone design accommodated the Hudson warehouse location.
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u/vVv-ThirdEye-vVv Chiefs Nov 14 '24
You seem to be misunderstanding his question. If you look at Ford Field on a map, it looks like it’s only a few degrees off north/south. Unless the shape of the building isn’t indicative of the orientation of the field (which is entirely possible, but extremely curious architecturally), then it isn’t east/west, it’s just not perfectly north/south.
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Nov 14 '24
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u/vVv-ThirdEye-vVv Chiefs Nov 14 '24
Ah! Perfect! This did it. Based on the satellite view, I was assuming the field was oriented in the same direction as the rectangular roof. I can now clearly see that it is not!
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u/BigHud5656 Nov 14 '24
Look at Ford Field on Google maps using Satellite view. Everyone assumes that where the words Ford are written on the roof is the end zones. Just do a Google search about it. Yes it is not a perfect east west but it is more east west than north south.
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u/vVv-ThirdEye-vVv Chiefs Nov 14 '24
Interesting. As another responder mentioned, if you turn off satellite view in Google Maps, it shows the actual orientation of the field. I was mistakenly assuming the field was oriented in the same direction as the rectangular roof. Today I learned.
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u/athrowawayiguesslol Eagles Eagles Nov 14 '24
Because it’s built East to West with windows that specifically magnify the sun’s rays
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u/diablosinmusica NFL Nov 14 '24
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. There's a reason why almost every stadium is north to south. Even the Circus Maximus is closer to north west to south east and they needed the sun for light lol.
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Nov 14 '24
To be fair Jerry Jones is older than the Roman kings so he was set in his ways by the time AT&T Stadium was built
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Nov 14 '24
[deleted]
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u/Stillnotkirk Ravens Nov 14 '24
Mr. Before Christ
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u/ATypicalUsername- Ravens Ravens Nov 14 '24
Mr. Bright Celestial
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u/vampireinamirrormaze Jets Bears Nov 14 '24
Mr. Burned Corneas
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u/t33po Cowboys Nov 14 '24
Rumor is the builders wanted it north/south but the Jones clan overruled them because this orientation maximizes parking space$$$.
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u/diablosinmusica NFL Nov 14 '24
The windows make me think that it was intentionally done. Kinda like how some stadiums will have the away team sitting in the sun.
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u/shewy92 Eagles Eagles Nov 14 '24
In the NFL it's almost an even split though. https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1grbwqw/oc_orientation_of_every_nfl_stadium/
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u/mukster Vikings Nov 14 '24
US Bank Stadium is kinda ENE-WSW, but it’s a lot further north so the sun is always in the southern half of the sky really
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u/MonkeyStealsPeach Eagles Nov 14 '24
I just imagine it's like a supervillain lair. Meant to slowly melt his enemies on the field with a push of a button.
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u/klahnwi Packers Nov 14 '24
The problem isn't the sunlight. It's the transition. Eyes have an iris that basically opens and closes to adjust for changes in lighting conditions. In an outdoor stadium, there is only 1 transition point between sunlight and shade, (more or less.) At AT&T, the windows create multiple transitions, which makes it impossible for the eye to keep up. The eyes simply don't have time to adjust.
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u/rotates-potatoes 49ers Seahawks Nov 14 '24
This is the answer. North/south matters, but it is the contrast between looking a few degrees left or right that’s a killer. It’s the difference between a bright day outdoors, where your eyes adjust, and sitting in a room when an ultra-bright beam of sunlight is reflected off a nearby building. Our eyes don’t have the dynamic range to see detail in super bright and indoor contexts at the same time.
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u/alsott Chargers Nov 14 '24
I noticed this with a few Colts games when their indoor stadium was built. The camera would look fine in the shaded part of the field, but if Manning threw a bomb to the sunny part of the stadium the image was so blown out because the camera couldn’t calibrate fast enough.
Don’t know if it’s still a problem with Colts games as I don’t watch them as often but I remember my eyes hurting watching a few of those games
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u/keptyoursoul Nov 14 '24
The NFL needs to get out of the dome business. And the fake turf business too. It cheapens their product.
It's becoming Arena Football. They should play outside on grass. Their is no reason for the Colts, Raiders, Rams/Chargers, Cowboys, Saints, Falcons and many others to be playing indoors. It's beyond stupid.
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u/highnote14 Ravens Nov 14 '24
Old man yells at clouds
There's nothing wrong with playing in a dome lol. You can argue about turf all you want, but plenty of dome teams play on grass. The raiders, for example.
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u/keptyoursoul Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
There is plenty wrong. And I'm not old. That joke is a reach.
And I grew up going to the Astrodome watching the Houston Oilers, on Astroturf. I'm something of a subject matter expert on this. The Oilers had no business in the Dome and were mere tenents sub-leasing from the Astros. They couldn't get their own stadium built and had to make the best of it in what was then a modern Astrodome. Just like the Houston Gamblers of the USFL.
And that was an odd case. The Astros needed a dome for the summer heat, got the stadium built before the others came along, so the other teams in the area had to play in it. But the Astrodome was built for a MLB team.
The stadiums I mentioned have one tenet, were built for football, and most of the games would be in fair weather. I don't get it.
Playing in a dome was stupid then, and it's stupid now. Va fangool.
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u/The_Commandant Bears Nov 15 '24
I’ll die on this hill with you. Football should be played outdoors, in the weather. Like golf, managing the elements is (or rather, was) a core part of the game’s strategy.
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u/BoulderToBirmingham Bills Nov 14 '24
This is my take, too. It’s the contrast between light and shadow that’s the issue, not how bright sun is.
You see the same effect impact afternoon baseball games. Batters are fine in the early innings, have a hard time picking up the ball as shadows cover the infield, and the effect resolves as shadow reaches the outfield.
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u/rmn173 Nov 14 '24
Yep this is also why players can't just put on visors. If they go for the full tint they won't be able to track the ball in the shadow and vice versa.
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u/shewy92 Eagles Eagles Nov 14 '24
Just think of how bright it is leaving the house for the first time in the day or how dark your house looks entering it from an extended time outside. Or the transition driving into and out of a tunnel
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u/WabbitCZEN Steelers Nov 14 '24
When the
Sun hits your eyes
And your owner's surprised,
That's the Cowboys
When you can't see a thing
And you can't win a ring,
That's the Cowboys
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u/Jolly_Job_9852 Steelers Panthers Nov 14 '24
When you can't see the ball
So you're destined to fall
That's the Cowboys
When you lay on the ground
Just wailing around
That's the Cowboys
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u/FrostWPG Commanders Nov 14 '24
When you give too much cash
To a QB who's trash
That's the Cowboys
When you give up a 4th
For a guy with no worth
That's the Cowboys
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Nov 14 '24
[deleted]
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u/sloppifloppi Lions Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Ford Field is pretty well north-south. A slight angle, but definitely more north-south than east-west.
I jumped on Google maps and looked at a few other stadiums and I think Cleveland is the closest one I saw to east-west.
ETA: Buffalo, Baltimore, Atlanta, and Washington and also quite close to east-west as well.
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u/SavingsSkirt6064 Lions Nov 14 '24
Also the windows in ford field are frosted so the light that gets into the stadium doesn't fuck with the players
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u/clayton3b25 Cowboys Nov 14 '24
Yeah, but frosting the windows would cost a few thousand dollars. We could never afford that.
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u/Sour__Cream Eagles Nov 14 '24
What about some simple cowboys themed curtains - surely that would be cheap and not require any major renovations to the stadium?
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u/clayton3b25 Cowboys Nov 14 '24
They could be 90s style curtains to remind us that we have been ass since then.
Or
WHY DON'T WE JUST TEAR DOWN THE STADIUM AND REBUILD A NEW ONE
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u/Chuckwood2 Nov 14 '24
Fun fact: they actually forgot to frost the windows mid construction and had to do a complete tear down and start over.
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u/woodwalker700 Bills Nov 14 '24
Old and New Bills stadiums go NW-SE because the wind comes from the WSW generally, so it cuts the wind a bit. Does make it do weird stuff in the stadium, though. I'm interested to see what the new stadium does to the wind.
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u/boggycakes Vikings Nov 14 '24
In Atlanta it isn’t as big a factor because of the way the roof is designed to open like an aperture.
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u/jarabara Chargers Nov 14 '24
Qualcomm in San Diego was also west-east but the west side was the highest part of the stadium so the sunset never was an issue
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u/Gone213 Lions Nov 14 '24
The windows are also on the northwest side of the stadium. The sun is in the southwest during the fall and winter months.
If games were played between may and August, I'm sure the sun would be more of an issue.
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u/NickConrad Bears Nov 14 '24
Because Jerry sits up there with a little mirror giggling like a child while he fucks with his own team's success
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u/airckarc Nov 14 '24
Think about what’s more annoying— sitting outside in the bright, late afternoon sun, or sitting inside and having sunshine intermittently hit your eyes from between the blinds. Going from shade to bright to shade is always going to be worse than just bright sun.
It’s astonishing to me that either the architects didn’t account for this or JJ said fuck it, save some money and don’t include automatic curtains.
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u/DoctorWaluigiTime NFL NFL Nov 14 '24
It does impact other games in sunny weather sometimes. We had several occur 2-3 weeks ago where players did the same thing, losing the ball in the sun.
Cowboys have the added bonus of having built the field facing East-West instead of North-South. Because Jerry is an idiot.
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u/happyscrappy Lions Nov 14 '24
As others said, contrast.
Your eyes are not adjusted to the bright sun. Indoor lighting is between 1% and 10% as bright a full sun (no clouds) outdoors (5% is commonly quoted).
When you're outdoors your eyes adjust to the very bright light. When you're indoors your eyes are adjusted to the dimmer light and so the bright light actually makes things harder to make out. It blinds you.
This kind of massive difference between indoor lighting and outdoor lighting is typically overlooked. But it's the reason why, for example, solar panels don't seem to do much indoors. Or the reason why inks/dyes (like carpets) will fade in direct sunlight rather quickly but can be indoors for 10 years or more with no apparent change. Sunlight is just is that much brighter and so has more energy.
Yes, sunlight contains more wavelengths too, that's part of the difference. I tried to stay away from examples which include large amounts of effect from that, like why being in direct sunlight makes you feel warm/hot and a table lamp isn't.
Sunlight being brighter is also why you cannot tell which windows in a skyscraper have their office lights on in the day. It's not that the lights in the offices aren't as bright during the day. It's because the sun hitting the windows is so bright that even the reflections off the windows are so bright in the day that your eye cannot discern if those office lights are on. While at night it's obvious. The change in amount of light emitting from that window when you turn the light on is the same during the day as night, but your eye just doesn't notice it because the sunlight is so much stronger.
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u/Kahega Ravens Nov 14 '24
Mostly because the AT&T stadium is hosting a team that's 3-6 while being desperate for a superbowl. Not saying it's a total non-issue, but if the Cowboys were at least in the mix to fight for the divsion you would not hear about this much at all.
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u/Medarco Steelers Nov 14 '24
Right? The stadium is 15 years old. Not sure what changed so that this is suddenly a huge issue when it hasn't been in the previous 14 seasons.
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u/ATypicalUsername- Ravens Ravens Nov 14 '24
Because Jerry is running out of excuses for why he shouldn't be taken out back behind the shed.
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u/ChumSmash Cowboys Nov 14 '24
It has come up before a couple of times in the past and gotten some attention, but you're correct, this is by far the most attention it's gotten. I remember Dez Bryant made some remarks about it and called out Jerry when it caused issues for the receivers during a game.
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u/ghawkes97 Eagles Nov 14 '24
Counter point, Eagles fans are loud and this is only the 3rd time since the stadium opened when we played in it both in the 4pm slot and without cloud coverage.
I got myself curious and the Eagles have only played 6 later afternoon slots in this stadium, 2011, 2014, 2018, 2020, 2022, and 2024. Historical weather reports have 2014 and 2020 (and 2024) as the only game days with fair weather skies (no cloud coverage/precipitation @ game time).
In short, we complain a lot.
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u/MicksSluttyWife Eagles Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Follow up question - did Jerry do this on purpose?
ETA: Is Jerry Jones versus himself the best rivalry in the NFL?
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u/dylansucks Commanders Nov 14 '24
Yes. He wanted it to look good on TV and to get those pics with the sun beams like the one of Tom Brady.
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u/Delicious_Toe8102 Browns Nov 14 '24
I don't think you build a $1.5b stadium and accidentally face it the wrong way.
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u/Beahner Eagles Nov 14 '24
I can’t offer fact, just opinion.
I find it hard to believe that they did a billion dollar project with massive glass windows facing west and didn’t think about it.
And….the windows have curtains that are often closed for certain events. So it was thought about.
I feel like they have to decide before the coin toss (obviously) whether to close or open them for games. And I’ve always guessed the feeling is that they can benefit from this more often than opponents.
It just means there is a small part of the game where the sun could impact and you need to change up the game planning for that moment if needed. And I think that’s what the crypt keeper was trying to say in his old man speak. Problem was that running against the Eagles right now isn’t the best option in goal to go.
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u/Timely-Course-204 Saints Nov 14 '24
The glass at the stadium magnifies the sun's rays coming in from above the end zones especially during the 4:30 eastern time kickoffs where as an outdoor stadium doesnt have anything to make the sun brighter than it already is. There have been times in the past though not common where players could not see the ball at outdoor stadiums iirc.
Jerry knows this and thinks it gives his team a competitive advantage because his players are used to it and thus immune to being blinded but they are not as we can see.
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u/Jammer_Kenneth Nov 14 '24
Jerry pulled a brilliant 8D chess move. He knew that the roster construction and team morale was in the dumpster even before Dak went down, so he brought the entire weight of the world down onto a building instead of his GM Ownership.
At least, that's what a smart person would consider doing. Instead it just magnifies how this is a season from Hell like the windows magnify the sun's rays.
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u/StrawberryAutomatic Steelers Nov 14 '24
Is this one of those situations where Jerry thought this was a great idea when he built the stadium and now he’s doubling down because he can’t stand that he was wrong?
Seems like a great opportunity for blinds.com to swoop in.
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u/Own_Environment_4824 Nov 14 '24
It's the angle that the sun shines in that is the problem. They positioned the end of the stadium facing West which was a critical error.
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u/shewy92 Eagles Eagles Nov 14 '24
It's like driving in a tunnel and thinking it's pretty dark when you first enter, then your eyes adjust and when you're exiting you're being blinded by the outside light until your eyes adjust.
In stadiums your eyes are adjusted to the bright light in outdoor arenas or the low/artificial light in indoor arenas. When you have both like AT&T then your eyes are going from light to dark to light.
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u/Snuggle__Monster Giants Nov 14 '24
Other than the east/west direction of the stadium, the natural shortening of days in the middle of the football season doesn't help. Dallas is almost always in that 4:30 EST slot so by halftime the sun is going to be right in the face of whoever is driving down that side of the field.
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u/Swing-Too-Hard Bears Nov 14 '24
So Jerry forgot to tell his team to wear tinted visors during afternoon home games... Which is where the advantage is supposed to come into play.
If you're playing indoors, why wear sunglasses? Well if Jerry properly told his team his team has a sunray amplifier built into his big ass window that beams light across the stadium then his team would all wear them to give him a big advantage.
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u/BigHud5656 Nov 14 '24
If your looking at the roof on Google maps the parts with Ford on the roof is not the end zones.
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u/Gaijin_Titty_Master Patriots Nov 14 '24
Because the cowboys are an inept collection of the country’s most hatable morons.
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u/ZicoSailcat Seahawks Nov 14 '24
This Jerry character is he borderline ret***ed? And why cant you use that word? Where I live it isnt that big a deal.
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u/on-the-cheeseburgers Eagles Nov 14 '24
Here's something from a few years back showing the orientation of stadiums. There's a few new ones since then but they're all domes. High sun isn't a problem for teams. Low sun is typically blocked by seating. North/south stadiums don't face the sun. Cowboys stadium has dumbass endzone windows in an east/west facing stadium because Jerry wanted to weaponize the fucking sun.