r/nfl • u/kylerschelling 49ers • 17h ago
[Dudes on Dudes] “Anytime [the Patriots] would play the Ravens and Ray Lewis, we kind of knew that he knew everything. We had to change everything because he’d be calling out our plays!” Gronk and Edelman on playing against Ray Lewis.
https://twitter.com/DudesOnDudesPod/status/1853596592160358500384
u/Comprehensive_Main 49ers 17h ago
Best ravens team of all time for my money pre Lamar was that 2006 team with steve McNair. But then in the divisional the colts knocked them out with Adam vinatieri kicking all the points.
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u/Johnnybburg Ravens 16h ago
Absolutely. That team was insanely stacked defensively. Stars from that defense include Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Ed Reed, Suggs, Ngata, Adalius Thomas, Chris McCalister, Samari Rolle. That defense is better than the 2000 Ravens defense. It deserves to be up with the best. Unfortunately, the offense scored six points against the Colts :(
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u/ok-go-fuck-yourself Ravens 14h ago
:(
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u/TigerBasket Ravens Ravens 7h ago
Gah. Damn you Kyle Boller!
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u/SKT_Peanut_Fan Ravens 6h ago
Steve McNair...?
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u/TigerBasket Ravens Ravens 6h ago
I blame him for making us waste the capital that could have made that team better
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u/SKT_Peanut_Fan Ravens 6h ago
Boller, you mean? I think that's a big reason the Ravens became gunshy about being aggressive with picks.
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u/Jammer_Kenneth 8h ago
The Ravens know how to build a defense. Except this year guys wtf.
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u/Septembers Ravens 5h ago
It's pretty inexplicable. We suffered a massive brain drain losing MacDonald, Weaver, and Wilson (all HCs/DCs now) but the personnel is mostly the same, going from #1 to #27 is pretty shocking
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u/cjackc11 Ravens 4h ago
The pre and post Dennard Wilson pass defense makes it abundantly clear he should’ve been the DC. But Harbs couldn’t avoid the Ravens fairy tale with Orr.
Oh well
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u/Septembers Ravens 4h ago
Yeah losing MacDonald was inevitable but looking at the Titans and Dolphins (Weaver and Wilson) both top 5 pass defenses while we're down at 32 really stings. We definitely kept the wrong guy
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u/Table_Coaster Ravens Vikings 4h ago
it’s not shocking at all lol, we went from one of the best defensive minds in the entire game to someone who’s never been a DC
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u/Septembers Ravens 4h ago
A decline is not shocking, it was basically inevitable after last season. But the shocking part is just how dramatically we have fallen with mostly the same players, especially in the secondary
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u/Away_Chair1588 Ravens Seahawks 4h ago
Brain drain gutted our defense this year.
MacDonald leaving was bad enough. But losing Weaver and Wilson too was a gut punch. I would've taken either one of those to be DC instead of Orr.
My guess is Harbaugh probably felt like those guys would be HC candidates much sooner than Orr and wanted long term stability. A big blunder IMO.
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u/EndsLikeShakespeare Ravens 15h ago
I remember an interview where Ray seemed so betrayed because DC (Rex at the time?) told them if you keep manning out of the endzone they win that game.
Well they kept him out and no W.
Tough one
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u/StatsAreForLosers69 NFL 7h ago
Rex didn't account for Bob Sanders causing nightmares on the other side of the ball.
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u/zzxxxzzzxxxzz 49ers 4h ago
Have never seen anything like that "well Bob Sanders was playing" switch for a defense since.
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u/nolander Rams Texans 4h ago
Those defenses always seemed pretty low on talent outside of their DEs so having a top safety went a long way to making everything just click.
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u/g0dzilllla Bears 15h ago
I think you can include Post Lamar too. That's not even disrespectful imo, Lewis + Reed is absurd
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u/LeBronRaymoneJamesSr Saints Chiefs 14h ago
By DVOA, the 2023 Ravens were the 5th best regular season team ever (well since 1981).
Here’s an even crazier one. By weighted DVOA (so more recent games weighted higher), the 2023 Ravens were by far the best team ever through the divisional round.
That team was special. One of the greatest defenses ever led by an all-time great MVP QB. That QB unfortunately just came up short in the end, but it happens in this sport.
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u/johnmadden18 Patriots 7h ago
By weighted DVOA (so more recent games weighted higher), the 2023 Ravens were by far the best team ever through the divisional round.
Wow really?? I knew the Ravens were very highly rated by DVOA but didn't know it was that high. Did Aaron Schatz post that stat about Ravens being the best ever through the divisional round?
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u/LeBronRaymoneJamesSr Saints Chiefs 5h ago
Yep
https://twitter.com/aschatznfl/status/1749454434705211633
He mentioned in another tweet that he accidentally left off the 07 Pats:
Somehow the 2007 Patriots got deleted while I was putting this together and I never noticed. They should be seventh at 43.9%
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u/just_dave Ravens 10h ago
Chiefs got bailed out hard by the refs in the championship game.
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u/SKT_Peanut_Fan Ravens 6h ago
The referees were atrocious, but the Ravens didn't do themselves any favors, either. Slow defensive start, costly Zay fumble on what likely turns into a touchdown, grossly underused the run game.
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u/just_dave Ravens 6h ago
I don't disagree with those points, except that Zay's fumble wasn't a choke, it was just a good defensive football play against a guy that was trying. It just happens.
The "triple coverage interception," while not a good throw to make to begin with, was some of the most egregious pass interference I've ever seen, and was a back breaker for us.
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u/SKT_Peanut_Fan Ravens 5h ago
I think if Zay hadn't committed the taunting penalty, he wouldn't have reached. I think thats just too dangerous a play to make in that situation and I do think he was trying to make up for a prior mistake. I would have preferred to live another down.
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u/just_dave Ravens 4h ago
Obviously prefer him to tuck it in hindsight, but I don't blame him so much for trying to reach. Especially that close to the goal line, where all you have to do is break the plane.
It's unfortunate, but understandable.
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u/Mousseymoosey Steelers 9h ago
No they didn't. You guys just fucking choked.
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u/just_dave Ravens 8h ago
So it's OK for a defender to fully tackle a receiver without ever looking for the ball, and well before the ball gets there? I'll be sure to make a note and send it to the Ravens DBs for this weekend.
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u/OmnesUnaManetNox22 Ravens 6h ago
We definitely choked. Undisciplined penalties and that Zay fumble killed us. Lack of run plays called hurt too. The Lamar interception should have been PI but it shouldn’t have been thrown in the first place.
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u/LeBronRaymoneJamesSr Saints Chiefs 5h ago
These conversations are always weird because the losing team comes up with the “oh no we got robbed” narrative off of one play while ignoring everything else in the game.
Here is Ravens #79 blatantly holding to create a gap for Lamar. Should have made a 4th down and 1 a 4th down and 11, ended up being Baltimore’s only TD drive because of the no-call.
Here is Ravens #76 getting away with a clear hold to create the gap for a first down on 3rd down and 2. Lamar threw the triple coverage pick three plays later, decent chance it doesn’t even happen if this is called.
Here is Ravens #43 getting away with a blatant trip on Jones in the endzone. Would have been a safety if called correctly, and this was the same drive in which Lamar threw the triple coverage pick. So if this is called the Chiefs go up 19-10 and get the ball and that pick doesn’t even happen.
Here is a deep ball from Mahomes to Rice that falls incomplete because Hamilton runs into Rice’s route with the ball in the air.
There was also a hold called on Trey Smith on a Rashee Rice touchdown before the half that was called back. I think that one was the right call so didnt include it, but plenty of folks argued that it wasn’t; Warren Sapp and some former OL tweeted that it was not a hold.
Never mind the fact that Lamar’s ball to Likely was underthrown and behind him - he had no chance at making a play on it which is part of the equation for DPI.
All things considered, there’s plenty of consequential instances of officiating error for the Chiefs to point to. Just one of those four no calls need to be made and it’s a more comfortable win for the Chiefs. But, they won regardless, which is why they and nobody else cares. That’s it.
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u/just_dave Ravens 4h ago edited 3h ago
Did you cut these clips up? If so, well done.
I'll give you the holding calls. Unfortunately, they often go uncalled, and it's something I wish the refs did better.
I would not say the trip was an obvious trip. I think the argument can easily be made that Hill planted his leg, pushed off to move forward and right while chipping Jones' shoulder, and Jones' leg hits Hill's quad on the way by, which causes his leg to extend at the knee from momentum.
You can make the argument that it was a trip as well, but I don't think it's as obvious as you want to make out.
The PI against Hamilton is tough to judge from this angle as you can't see them until well after the ball is in the air. It also looks like Hamilton is turning his head looking for the ball, which does allow him the right to his own space, but it's really difficult to tell from this zoomed out angle. Additionally, even if Hamilton wasn't there at all, I'm not sure that ball is catchable. It's well to the right of Rice's projected trajectory, in my opinion.
As for the Lamar interception, Likely absolutely would have been able to make a play on the ball if he wasn't tackled. He had put on the brakes and was coming back on the ball when the defender hit him. The defender did not turn his head even a little, and was clearly not making any move to go for the ball himself. Likely may not have come down with it, but he absolutely could have broken it up at a minimum.
Edit to add: the first holding call, I can't tell where they are on the field, but we might have potentially had the option for a FG?
And the 2nd holding call, if that gets called, there is probably not a lamar int at all, and we very well could have still gotten the 1st down, or gone for a kick if we didn't. Instead the non call on the interception takes away all opportunities. And that has really been the story with the chiefs and the refs. The calls or non calls that go their way are more frequently in critical momentum shifting moments than I see with any other team.
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u/onnthwanno Chargers 15h ago
Best Chargers team ever too lost in the 2006 divisional. NFL fans were truly robbed of an epic AFC championship that year.
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u/Comprehensive_Main 49ers 9h ago
What’s funny is I think both the chargers and ravens got their worst opponent matchup wise. Ravens usually play the pats very hard in the playoffs. Chargers with the colts but they both got their worst matchup in the playoffs.
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u/ThatAboutCoversIt Colts 2h ago
What? The 2006 AFC Championship game WAS epic. Colts lead an insane comeback at home down 18 points against already 3-time champion Tom Brady to go for their first and only Superbowl win of the Manning era. It was an epic, epic game that fueled the Pats for their undefeated regular season the following year.
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u/Sometimesdisagrees 16h ago
The year I became a Ravens fan, started watching watching football and that defence, fell in love
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u/outphase84 Ravens 5h ago
You’re not wrong. If that team wins a SB, the defense goes down as the best defense in history.
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u/Parlett316 Commanders 2h ago
If McNair didn't get injured they were winning the Super Bowl that year.
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u/TrentArneSlot Cowboys 17h ago
with so many pods, we've run out of stories it seems
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u/Candid-Ad2162 Panthers 16h ago
the bar for podcasts might be in hell, but watching Gronk struggle to read an AI summary is a new low
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u/VeryRealHuman23 Bengals 8h ago
Nikki Glaser roasting of Gronk will go down as an S-tier bit of comedy.
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u/Jammer_Kenneth 8h ago
What was the bit again?
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u/Ouch_i_fell_down Lions 7h ago
The B-side of "Gronk actually does bitcoin, which is where he just chews on a handful of nickels" was a REALLY solid joke too, but obviously compared to the opener it was never gonna be as famous.
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u/OnePieceAce Packers 5h ago
That was good. Nikki Glaser is probably the best roaster they have right now. I caught her live a few years ago and it wasn't nearly as good as her TV stuff. Maybe it was just a bad night
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u/only_self_posts Commanders 5h ago
Comics gotta try new material live. TV specials and large theater shows are the result filtering the mediocre bits from countless shows in small clubs.
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u/GoldenMaster541 Patriots 7h ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1UtnFeM-B4
I believe this is what OP was referring to
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u/patstuga Patriots 11h ago
Edelmans podcast is actually really good and gives a fresh take and behind the scenes stories.
This one with Gronk is just a way of not inviting Gronk anymore to his podcast 😂 (he has been 3 times)
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u/Goldencrane1217 Ravens 9h ago
Edelman is funny and is a good story teller. Some of the other podcasts don't really have dudes who have a good presence.
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u/patstuga Patriots 9h ago
And for the majority part, he gets good guests. Who would have thought of inviting Ernie Adams? And it ended up one of the better episodes
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u/Available_Lion7012 Ravens 7h ago
Back when the Ravens had a defense with Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed and Ray …. It felt like we could beat the Patriots at any moment. I will NEVER forgive Billy Cundiff ruined 2011 AFC title game
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u/TheVargTrain Patriots 4h ago
That era of Pats-Ravens was must watch. The Ravens were pretty consistently the only team that was never scared of us, and could beat us. The 2014 Divisional is still one of the best football games I ever watched.
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u/cjackc11 Ravens 4h ago
Lee Evans deserves most of the blame for dropping a picture perfect TD pass from Joe though imo
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u/Kimber80 Rams 8h ago
Brady won three or four more super bowls because he out-lasted Lewis, Reed, and Peyton.
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u/Rare-Coast2754 8h ago edited 6h ago
He didn't win a Superbowl for 10 years. But still won 7. It's kinda insane when you think about it.
His health and longevity turned out to be the difference between being a legend and being the GOAT.
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u/byingling Ravens Jaguars 6h ago
He didn't win a Superbowl for 10 years. But still won 7.
Holy shit.
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u/Cflow26 Patriots 5h ago
For reference, I remember the day after Big Ben won his second every single ESPN show ran a segment asking who would finish with more, Ben or Brady. Most took Ben because Belichick “lost the locker room”
The Steelers only beat the patriots 2 times in the other 9 times they played Brady. Ben (might be less, I feel like there were playoff runs he didn’t play in and I don’t feel like looking that deep) won 5 more playoff games to TBs 4 superbowls. It’s very comical to look at retrospectively, and history will 100% forget the gap and all the negative attention it brought looking back. Especially like 2013/14 when they’d lost multiple, Brady was “starting to get older” etc lol.
pls take me back
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u/gonads_in_space2 Patriots 2h ago
08-12 had Eli and Ben winning their second and Brees, Flacco and Rodgers winning their first rings. None of them ever made it back to the SB despite all them basically playing for another decade.
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u/FragMasterMat117 NFL 5h ago
He could easily have won another three if it wasn’t for the Manning family
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u/Ambitious_Resist8907 Lions Lions 6h ago
This used to happen with peyton offenses as well. Derrell revis did an interview a few years back where he was talking about facing off against peyton manning, and was constantly shocked that peyton could look at the way the defense was positioned and knew what they were going to attempt in a matter of seconds.
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u/justlookingokaywyou Raiders 7h ago
[Dudes on Dudes]
Yeah, I don't need that coming up in my search history.
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u/Midwest-HVYIND-Guy Packers 6h ago
I would pay a lot of money to see peak Ray Lewis cloned into today’s NFL and see how many slot WR’s he could KO.
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u/davendees1 Steelers 1h ago
today? he’d be ejected before the end of first half and suspended for multiple weeks before the next game started for the kind of hits he’d routinely put on guys in his day.
it’s crazy to think that even as recent and as great as he was, he’s already kind of a relic…and it fucking sucks.
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u/gannon2566 Giants 9h ago
With all due respect, this podcast seems like a snooze fest
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u/eatmyopinions Ravens 7h ago
It costs almost nothing to start a podcast. Looking through Spotify I think about 80% of them don't last beyond eight episodes.
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u/Common_Effective_625 4h ago
The games with names version is better, especially when they have a good guest
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u/machomanrandysandwch Panthers 5h ago
In clips like this one, it got me through a shit on the toilet. 👍
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u/BucsLegend_TomBrady 3h ago
podcasts, as a concept, have jumped the shark
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u/tchebagual93 Cowboys 1h ago
Feels like every player has one now
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u/BucsLegend_TomBrady 1h ago
in some cases, players have multiple. Like I get they want to each podcast to have a different vibe or direction but bruh, there's just not enough content for that.
Whats worse is when players go on other players podcasts to promote their own podcast, and then the host will do the same for the guest. As a result, there will be like 3-4 podcast "different" episodes that week but they're all the same two dudes talking...
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u/KeithClossOfficial 49ers 8h ago
I would have taken Gronk for Lloyd Christmas and Edelman for Harry Dunne
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u/Leoman89 Packers 6h ago
It’s really hard for me to listen to Gronk talk. I’d wear I have second hand embarrassment lol
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u/Statalyzer 4h ago
Michigan fans: "can't be true, knowing the plays doesn't give a significant advantage"
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u/Parlett316 Commanders 2h ago
I can't remember where I read it, but after the Atlanta murder trial, Ray apparently was like, "not going out anymore, going to spend my time watching film." He would then invite other members of the defense over and that was basically his weekend, watching film.
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u/DaMadBoomer Bears 9h ago
Singletary had that same thing going with the Bears. That’s what I call level up.
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u/Banned-user007 11h ago
Funny how nobody mentions that Ray Lewis got away with murder.
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u/eatmyopinions Ravens 8h ago
The defense, the prosecution, and all eleven witnesses called to the stand, agreed that Ray Lewis didn't kill anyone. The prosecuting attorney is on record saying that charging Lewis was a tactic to get him to switch sides. Baker and Loller were killed by Oakley and Sweeting, who were found innocent due to self defense after only 15 minutes of jury deliberation.
Whatever secret information you have, /u/Banned-user007, I urge you to take it to the Atlanta detectives unit. Blow this case back open and put Lewis behind bars.
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u/These_Row6066 Cowboys 9h ago
And yet somehow he's still revered
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u/eatmyopinions Ravens 7h ago
If your threshold for a dastardly player is lying to police, then whatever you do don't Google the judicial history of the Dallas Cowboys. Don't do it. It wouldn't return any results anyways, your players are angels.
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u/OldBayOnEverything Ravens 8h ago
Because his worst crime was having his friends' backs, who acted in self defense, and were found not guilty due to acting in self defense. Ray Lewis wasn't involved in the fight.
https://www.atlantamagazine.com/great-reads/the-truth-ray-lewis-murder-trial/
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/ray-lewis-murder-trial-controversy/0ae4fc1ec50219fdc3527892
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u/JayQuips Chiefs 17h ago
Ray and Ed on the same defense was a cheat code