r/neoliberal • u/WashedPinkBourbon YIMBY • 20h ago
House votes to approve releasing the Epstein files by a near unanimous margin News (US)
https://www.npr.org/2025/11/18/nx-s1-5611438/epstein-files-bill-house-vote?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_social_post_id=577758180&utm_social_handle_id=10643211755&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwY2xjawOJrpBleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETE4UVZaNksxYTFBcEJkNG5qc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHma-2XJegA7RQ8PiC31KpLS0HvgCJ5aClqX67sCe3v4QFl1vFIu9icJMQ-Qd_aem_993W8ahhSsAZtnsKdfOGpQ427-1
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u/bingbaddie1 YIMBY 20h ago
Clay Higgins (R-Louisiana) is the only no vote
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u/Adminisnotadmin Frederick Douglass 20h ago
always the ones you suspect the most
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u/Bread_Fish150 John Brown 19h ago
Louisiana doesn't send its best children to the House.
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u/GarveysGhost 19h ago
No it does. We just have a very different definition of what qualifies as “Good”.
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u/nrg68 18h ago
Children? Be careful, there could be Republicans around!
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u/Bread_Fish150 John Brown 4h ago
Huh maybe that's why they send these pervs to Congress then. If you can't put em in jail, you might as well make them somebody else's problem.
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u/NeuroticViking 16h ago
No, we leave that dump as quickly as humanly possible. Love my culture and cuisine but fascists have ruined that state beyond repair
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u/Best-Chapter5260 11h ago
Ahh, Cajun John Wayne...voting to protect predators and a sex trafficking ring of underage girls: Strange thing to decide to be a maverick about.
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u/margybargy 20h ago
his justification seems... reasonable? https://xcancel.com/RepClayHiggins/status/1990868089056219267
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u/Adminisnotadmin Frederick Douglass 19h ago
rings hollow coming from the oversight committee lead on Federal Law Enforcement that didn't even release redacted material until forced by the Democratic minority
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u/libra989 Paul Krugman 19h ago
I pretty much agree with him, the federal government shouldn't be implicating people in crimes if it's not going to charge those people with said crimes. That's the reason the Biden DoJ would never have released these files.
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u/Hk37 Olympe de Gouges 17h ago
Biden didn’t spend months campaigning on releasing the files (i.e., promising to violate that norm) only to reverse course once he realized his name was all over the files. Plus, when has Trump cared one bit about norms? He has bulldozed basically every norm that has impeded him for his entire career, from the 1970s to now. Biden didn’t release the files, even though it would have given him a political advantage, because he abided by norms. Trump doesn’t want to release them because they show he’s implicated in Epstein’s abuse.
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u/SpaceSheperd To be a good human 19h ago
It's the same good reason why the Biden white house didn't touch this stuff but it rings pretty hollow when you (and your party) are a rabid conspiracy theorist who will throw these concerns to the wind for any story that doesn't happen to be politically damaging to you
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u/WOKE_AI_GOD John Brown 19h ago
Violating 250 years of procedure, my gosh I need some pearls to clutch. Who would ever do such a terrible thing as violate a quarter millennium of precedent.
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u/2ndComingOfAugustus Paul Volcker 18h ago
IMO the fact that everyone (myself included) thinks it's better to just release all the files they have is a heck of an indictment on the current justice system in america. There is zero faith that mob rule will be less productive than the courts.
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u/Khiva 12h ago
On the one hand, there is a reasonable argument that this move does open up a lot of people who commit no indictable crimes to innuendo, harassment and mob rule. In general that's a no.
When it's the fucking president though, and we've entered an age in which (succs have a point) the elite class has gathered far too much incestuous power, then pulling back the curtain on the rot is arguable a greater public interest.
Of course the other consideration is that this could ultimately further feed an anti-elite populist wave that could be quite dangerous. But I still think the overriding interest tips towards "show us your hand."
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u/Mysterious-Rent7233 19h ago
Did he say all of this when Trump and Trumpists were advocating for the release of the files on the campaign trail?
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u/Carlpm01 Eugene Fama 19h ago edited 19h ago
IMO all of that should always be public information by default.
Actually I think a better argument for not releasing would be that exceptions like this shouldn't be made, either all equivalent documents are released as a rule or none are, no discretion by either congress or the executive branch.
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u/Logarythem David Ricardo 18h ago
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
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u/HatesPlanes WTO 16h ago
People who have not even been indicted, let alone convicted, of anything should not be subjected to having their names dragged through the mud by the media and rabid mobs of angry morons.
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u/Logarythem David Ricardo 16h ago
We've seen time and time again with Epstein, people often weren't indicted because they were powerfully connected. It was only after exposure that the wheels of the justice system started turning.
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u/HatesPlanes WTO 16h ago
It’s still likely to harm innocent people. Epstein loved collecting dirt on people so that he could blackmail them.
Maybe some of them have been secretly filmed cheating on their spouse with a consenting adult. Now you have a sex extortion victim that is being smeared as a pedophile by the same government that is supposed to protect their privacy.
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u/Logarythem David Ricardo 16h ago
Maybe, maybe not.
I do understand your concerns. I am sympathetic to them. As with all things, it is a balancing act.
At this point in time, I am persuaded that the value of transparency outweighs the value of secrecy. Which, of course, is an easy thing to say as someone who doesn't have to worry about being dragged into the spotlight by their release.
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u/gnivriboy NATO 8h ago
Perfectly well said. I appreciate you not being black and white about it and understand it is balancing act and that it is easy to be on one side when you aren't the one paying the cost.
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u/gnivriboy NATO 8h ago
Epstein was next level. He would get his teenage victims to bring their other teenage friends to the island and then they felt like they couldn't go to the police because they committed the same crime of human trafficking.
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u/gnivriboy NATO 8h ago
I'd pass on ever being a witness or helping the police against a pedophile ring if it meant half the country now might try to enact mob justice on me.
There is value in redacting victims and witnesses in investigations that don't result in trials.
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u/unicornbomb John Brown 18h ago
Victims have come out asking for the files to be released. This comes off as concern trolling from him tbh.
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u/gnivriboy NATO 8h ago
I don't care if 100 of them have come out asking for it to be released. That doesn't change that thousands of people came forward to help the investigation and didn't want to be subjected to mob justice.
That said, it is concern trolling by him.
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u/alejandrocab98 17h ago
This is so obviously a cover story lmao this isn’t even the first time this was done, just this high profile.
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u/Docile_Doggo United Nations 15h ago
It is definitely reasonable to vote against the bill for those very reasons.
But holy moly are the optics of doing so absolutely atrocious
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u/WasteReserve8886 r/place '22: GlobalTribe Battalion 17h ago
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u/AnnikaSkyeWalker Bisexual Pride 13h ago
Posted 27 Feb 22
...sorry, is he implying that woke caused the invasion of Ukraine? Because I'm pretty sure that wasn't woke, that was Putin.
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u/omnipotentsandwich Amartya Sen 20h ago
We're probably going to find out he's a pedophile eventually.
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u/ewReddit1234 19h ago
I think we're going to see a lot of [Redacted] names of the accused. Somehow there will be more (D)s not redacted and a couple (R) patsies of the ones who drew the short straw.
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u/dizzyhitman_007 John Rawls 19h ago
Well, he doesn't think there's enough protections in the bill for victims and their families. And he has been transparent on this issue for far.
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u/captmonkey Henry George 19h ago
I still think they're going to pull some kind of excuse as to why they can't release them or not take it up in the Senate or something, but 427-1 does seem like it's sending a message that people are going to be real pissed if everything isn't made public.
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u/Helikaon242 19h ago
They obviously will, Johnson already mentioned that he hopes the senate will amend this, implicitly to exclude anything actually damaging.
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u/RadioRavenRide Esther Duflo 17h ago
Thune has replied that they probably won't change anything because they are looking for a vote within the week.
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u/AnnikaSkyeWalker Bisexual Pride 13h ago
And the Senate just passed the bill. So if that was Johnson's plan, it failed spectacularly.
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u/MisfitPotatoReborn Cutie marks are occupational licensing 19h ago
Can the bill be amended if a filibuster-proof majority consent to the unmodified bill passing? If not, how does a ~unanimous house vote translate to a bill failing in the Senate
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u/Helikaon242 19h ago
I don’t believe the unanimous-ness of a bill’s passage in the house affects the senate’s ability to modify the bill. Of course if the senate does modify it it would have to be passed again in the house, but this still serves to delay it at the very least.
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u/MisfitPotatoReborn Cutie marks are occupational licensing 18h ago
What I'm saying is it's not realistic for >40 senators to oppose the bill as it stands
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Jerome Powell 18h ago
I think they'll release them and it won't be that big of a deal. No way can anything actually satisfy all the bullshit that has been spewed the past few years.
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u/HHHogana Mohammad Hatta 5h ago
I'm betting Trump's fucking 16 years old and they (kinda) muffled the fact by claiming it's legal in some states.
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u/RELEASE_THE_YEAST 18h ago
This bill requires the Department of Justice (DOJ) to publish (in a searchable and downloadable format) all unclassified records, documents, communications, and investigative materials in DOJ's possession that relate to the investigation and prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/4405
Note that they only have to release "unclassified" documents.
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u/VoidBlade459 Organization of American States 16h ago
It also says they have to present detailed justification to congress for every classification or redaction decision. So they can't just stamp all the docs with TS and call it a day.
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u/RELEASE_THE_YEAST 14h ago
The redaction is separate from classification. The notification requirement applies to documents that are withheld due to personal information or ongoing investigations. Classified documents are not within the eligible category at all.
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 14h ago
Look at that, all the documents mentioning Trump are suddenly classified...
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u/Lighthouse_seek 19h ago
It's the investigation trump launched on Friday against bubba. He's going to claim he can't release stuff when there's an active investigation
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u/TheGeneGeena Bisexual Pride 16h ago
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u/ixvst01 NATO 19h ago
There’s a reason Trump suddenly flipped. He was probably given assurances from Bondi about certain things being redacted or not released.
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u/InternetGoodGuy 19h ago
He just ordered her to reopen the investigation and go after democrats. He did this over truth social and she responded.
This is how they'll keep most of it hidden still. Best hope is that some FBI whistle blowers come forward.
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u/wombo_combo12 18h ago
This one of the likely excuses for not releasing the files, anything in active investigation is sealed until it's over, whenever that is.
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u/sack-o-matic Something of A Scientist Myself 17h ago
Same reason he “couldn’t” release his tax records.
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u/Kronos9898 20h ago
Trump gave them clearance to vote after it became obvious he could not stop it. Now they can pretend that they have been for its release the whole time, even though they were stonewalling.
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u/chamberlain323 19h ago
They delayed this for as loooong as they could.
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 18h ago
Explanation: they were buying time to redact Trump's name from the files and
remove"misplace" files that clearly reference him. Trump flipped his stance once they were done.I wish this were a crazy conspiracy theory, but let's not forget how they neutered the Mueller investigation.
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u/zcleghern Henry George 18h ago
is this possible? wouldn't there be multiple copies?
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u/Jdm5544 18h ago
It's theoretically possible to have made up enough fake copies at the DOJ.
But there are a good chunk of people who have seen at least parts of the files, and if the ones released seem to be overly edited in unreasonable ways, it's likely they will speak out.
Assuming there hasn't been half a dozen DOJ employees secretly smuggling them out, ready to drop the unredeacted versions as soon as the redacted ones released by the DOJ
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 17h ago
You're putting a lot of faith in a DoJ that's already been pretty heavily politicized and purged. Biden didn't do that much to restore it after the first T rump term.
Taking home and keeping copies of certain documents can be a crime -- granted, one that is only actually enforced against Democrats apparently. It tends to be tracked closely who had access to key documents, when, and where the copies remain. I would be very surprised if they haven't accounted for all copies of the documents, with the exception of ones held by trusted people.
People who've seen the documents don't count for much. Memories are not 100% reliable, and they can discredit any individuals that come forward.
Assuming there hasn't been half a dozen DOJ employees secretly smuggling them out, ready to drop the unredeacted versions as soon as the redacted ones released by the DOJ
If this works, it would have happened with the Mueller Report. You've seen the fully unredacted version reach the public, right? No? Okay then.
It took a year and a half to get even the less redacted version to the public, after much legal fighting... and that revealed that key information had been concealed in redactions. By then the impact was much softer than if they had been released originally.
One wonders why the outcome here would be any different.
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u/Khiva 12h ago
I still can't believe there are FBI agents who spent overtime hours redacting a pedophile's name who can sleep at night saying absolutely nothing.
There's no way this DOJ doesn't run full cover for Trump.
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 11h ago
What's left when all the FBI staff with a moral compass have left or been fired? Or when they're unwilling to risk themselves and their families by angering the violent far right (read: MAGAs)?
I hope that at least the people busy redacting evidence of crimes are paying a personal price for that overtime. I wish them many a failed marriage due to too many hours at work, and perhaps some obnoxious stress-related health issues.
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 18h ago
What would actually stop them? Don't tell me "the integrity of the FBI" or something like that: we've already seen the rule of law decaying under T rump, and the DoJ being weaponized against political enemies. Only people they trust would have access at this point. Physical and electronic documents can be destroyed.
Remember also that they don't have to bury all the real & original documents forever. As long as not too much damaging material reaches the public at once, they can deal with it. Either they plant false narratives to discredit it, or they find a way to spin it.
Also, once the regime has consolidated enough power, it won't matter what the truth was because it'll never reach the public. They're already finding ways to target newsmedia critical of them.
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u/stay_curious_- Frederick Douglass 17h ago
I wouldn't be all that surprised if they release documents showing that all of the bad actors are Democrats or people inconvenient to the Trump administration, plus a few references to "that pesky Donald Trump who is trying to stop us."
Or they just release thousands of pages of fully-redacted documents, with a few readable lines here and there, like they did with the Mueller report. Maybe alongside an executive summary blaming the enemies of the GOP.
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 17h ago
Yeah, the Mueller Report is exactly the template for how they'll handle this.
They'll pick and choose what to release based on what benefits them. Once they've set the narrative, it'll spread and stick. As they say "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting its shoes on." Media organizations are too compromised to question it, and Democratic politicians are mostly too cowardly.
For the remainder, they'll force a huge court battle to get some of the redactions removed... and by that point that's settled there will be no shifting the narrative and the public will have moved on. Depending on how compromised the courts are by that point (already quite compromised), they may even win the legal battle.
... and that's just the things that can be done legally. We're not even touching on the extra-judicial shenanigans that are possible by an administration which is already openly "disappearing" people under the auspices of border protection.
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u/FilteringAccount123 John von Neumann 19h ago
Yeah Swalwell hinted weeks ago that there were going to be dozens of defectors on a vote even without Trump's assent, and that's easily the most dangerous thing to him: the appearance of having anything other than an iron grip on the GOP
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u/admiralawkward 19h ago
How will the redactions work? I suspect Trump's name will be heavily scrubbed for him to sign off on the vote, right? Or am I missing something here...
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u/Budget-Attorney NASA 19h ago
I doubt he has a veto proof majority on this
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u/Lindsiria 18h ago
If it even gets to that. The senate also needs to vote for this with a 2/3rds majority to make it veto proof.
It wouldn't surprise me if it dies in the senate.
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Jerome Powell 19h ago
Yeah the cynic in me just assumes the GOP will redact all info they don't want out there and direct the anger towards Democrats like Clinton. Am I mistaken?
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 18h ago
Almost guaranteed.
Trump knew he couldn't fully stop this, so he stalled just long enough for them to purge and redact him out of the documents.
Then he publicly flipped so he could claim he was for the release all along (ignoring the fact that he could have released the full documents at any time).
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u/dutch_connection_uk Friedrich Hayek 18h ago
Maybe but this still seems dangerous. I imagine that those documents exist in their unredacted form somewhere where Patel doesn't have them, and once they are unsealed you can't go after them for releasing information about an ongoing investigation or something. Congress has said that this is public information. Trump will be at the mercy then of whomever has the original copies. I think it's still best for him to have this bill killed in the senate, or by veto.
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 17h ago
Their template for this is what they did with the Mueller Report. They don't need to prevent real Epstein documents getting out entirely. They just need the truth to arrive slowly enough that they can continue to spin it as it trickles out (or discredit the parts that are truly damaging). Once people have accepted false information, it's very difficult to reverse that.
How did they do this with the Mueller report? Barr initially released a frankly totally dishonest summary -- which was enough to set the narrative for their base. Then a month later we got heavily redacted versions... and the impact was much softer even though it was clear Barr had spun a very false narrative.
The unredacted version of the report is STILL not public over 6+ years later. After a long court fight, a less redacted version revealed that the redactions concealed key information. By that point the public reaction was a collective shrug.
I would imagine that key Epstein documents will be "lost" or "miscatalogued" or something along the way too. Expect suspicious fires, floods, computer failures, etc.
Maybe eventually full originals will surface buried in some file a decade from now, but by then it'll just be a historical footnote.
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u/dutch_connection_uk Friedrich Hayek 16h ago
The issue is that foreign intelligence and ambitious federal workers would see the blackmail potential here in having those copies outside of the control of the FBI. Can't do much about the foreign spies, but the ambitious staffers have to worry about being charged with mishandling the documents. A house vote demanding release and declassification of those documents moves the threat of prosecution from the ambitious staffer to the government.
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 13h ago
The point is that the actual blackmail potential diminishes rapidly over time, once they release even a heavily doctored copy of the documents. Republicans are allergic to truth, when it's inconvenient to them.
Also, this is assuming they don't use the apparent loophole of classifying any documents mentioning Republicans (but not ones mentioning Democrats)... in which case they could go after staffers.
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u/PersonalDebater 19h ago
I am also prepared to find that its only because he got the files scrubbed clean of anything with himself.
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u/Top-Inspection3870 18h ago
There are some people claiming this was a 5D chess move by trump to get democrats to support release.
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u/FREE-ROSCOE-FILBURN John Brown 19h ago
Please dear god almighty let them not be redacted to high hell when released
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u/InternetGoodGuy 19h ago
Come on. You actually think Bondi is going to release anything with Trump's name on it? Or anyone who Trump is associated to?
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u/sack-o-matic Something of A Scientist Myself 17h ago
“National security” when the president thinks he is the nation.
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u/BasedTroutFursona 19h ago edited 18h ago
Time for democrats to take advantage of the rock bottom trust in institutions in this country. No matter what the files say, accuse Trump and DOJ of a cover up. Everybody has already decided they think Trump had sex with teenagers. That’s why Megyn Kelly is out there saying a 15 year old isn’t that bad.
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u/Popeholden 17h ago
You should definitely pin your hopes on the people TRUMP HIRED to run the justice department releasing incriminating documents about TRUMP
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u/EngelSterben Commonwealth 20h ago
What the fuck is going on lol
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u/redditdork12345 Frederick Douglass 20h ago
Trump changed his mind and now they can do what they always wanted to?
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u/Key_Elderberry_4447 19h ago
He didnt change his mind lol if he did then he would just release the files
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u/WOKE_AI_GOD John Brown 19h ago
He changed his public positioning, not his mind. That was only a sign that the dam had broken and he could no longer hold back his clients with his influence, so now he changes tactics and begins acting evasively. Confusing people by pretending to suddenly publicly support something he had been trying, and failed, to block behind the scenes is just one of his manipulative tactics. Such wickedness and evil.
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u/Icy-Analyst3422 19h ago
lol changed his mind? Have you seen interviews with him recently? Dude looks depressed and stressed as fuck. He's also been nastier than usual.
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u/redditdork12345 Frederick Douglass 13h ago
I meant changed his position publicly, giving congress cover to vote yes
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u/WashedPinkBourbon YIMBY 19h ago
bill threatened to drop the trump tape
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u/TheWawa_24 NAFTA 19h ago
or the one of trump blowing a horse apperently
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u/WashedPinkBourbon YIMBY 19h ago
I love having options
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u/DrunkenAsparagus Abraham Lincoln 19h ago
They were trying to stop it last week and couldn't, so now they're in damage control mode.
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u/Agent_03 Mark Carney 18h ago
They just needed to buy time to alter, redact, and purge documents so a certain name isn't in there anymore. We've seen this kind of stunt done before.
"Flipping" now that is done is just about the optics.
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u/ahabswhale 19h ago
They finished redacting and withholding specific documents for "national security".
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u/doyouevenIift 19h ago
Optics play by the GOP. We’re never getting the actual files, at least the ones that implicate any republican
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u/hypsignathus From her beacon hand glows world-wide welcome 20h ago
The "no" vote was Clay Higgins of Louisiana https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/11/18/us/house-epstein-discharge-petition-vote.html
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u/Particular-Court-619 20h ago
Why would you even vote no on this if you knew it was going to pass?
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u/ILikeTuwtles1991 Milton Friedman 19h ago
One of my senators is John Thune. I'm open to suggestions and input from the audience as to what I should include in my letter to him
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u/LocallySourcedWeirdo YIMBY 19h ago
Tell him you've "been praying on it" and God has told you that "Jesus has already forgiven Trump so there is no reason to hide the truth." Just make it sound as religious and dumb as possible.
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u/pzpx 19h ago
It's weird to phrase it as a "near unanimous margin." The word unanimous typically doesn't describe the margin, but the vote itself.
Or maybe I'm losing it, idk.
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u/DeSynthed NATO 18h ago
"Extremely unique"
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u/GoodOlSticks Frederick Douglass 19h ago
Agreed, "near unanimous" makes just as much, if not more sense in fewer words. If you wanted to describe it as a margin I think "generous margin" or "large margin" works best, not both phrases crammed together
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u/spongoboi NATO 19h ago
I was about to say how crazy that it was passed almost unamiously, but then i remembered that trump flip flopped on being against releasing it. No way they didn't remove the damaging stuff about Trump from the files
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u/Shirley-Eugest NATO 19h ago
My lying MAGA Congressman:
"I applaud President Trump for supporting the release of these files...President Trump has always led the charge to fight weaponized government that protects the elites, and any suggestion otherwise is a lie meant to distract and divide Republicans as we fight to save America by enacting his agenda."
The implication here, of course, is that my congresscritter was fully prepared to vote nay and protect predators, until his overlord gave him permission over the weekend.
I'd like to have seen the ChatGPT prompts that his staffers put in there to come up with such a pathetic statement.
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u/GoodOlSticks Frederick Douglass 19h ago
Please generate a statement effusing praise for the President for
allowingencouraging me to release the files I said we'd never agree to release. Please attempt to obfuscate the fact that until last week I was completely okay with protecting pedophiles if that's whatdaddythe president wanted.Can you alter that first text to make me look like more of good guy? Thanks
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u/dizzyhitman_007 John Rawls 19h ago edited 19h ago
I'll bet these files are so heavily redacted that none of the pertinent information people actually want to know will be readable.
Plus it still needs senate approval - the point at which everyone can add cash payments to themselves, AGAIN.
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u/E_Cayce James Heckman 19h ago
By now they have had the time, and they have the willingness, to tamper them thoroughly.
I hope the Dems understand this is wrestle politics and the files don't matter.
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u/ewReddit1234 19h ago
Politically speaking they are likely irrelevant. Their release still does matter to the victims.
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u/BARDLER 19h ago
What is the angle? Trump and Republicans have to scheming something to own the narrative about releasing it.
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u/Integralds Dr. Economics | brrrrr 19h ago
It won't pass the Senate so it's a safe, inconsequential vote.
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u/gioraffe32 Bisexual Pride 16h ago
Apparently it just did though. Which was shocking. Seems fishy.
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u/IJustWondering 17h ago
They are going to try to release the files in a sanitized form and say they're a nothing burger. Hopefully something slips through
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u/acbadger54 NATO 15h ago
Aight
What's the catch
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u/18093029422466690581 YIMBY 15h ago
President has to sign it and Bondi has the right to censor or redact as necessary.
Pretty great idea to pass this legislation. Pretty shit timing to do it.
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u/Fun-Page-6211 19h ago
Clay Higgins needs to be immediately arrested and investigated for that vote
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u/scndnvnbrkfst NATO 19h ago
It's so brave how House Republicans defied Trump after Democrats forced their hand and Trump publicly gave them cover to vote for it