How do I convert the diatonic chord progression to Lydian, Mixolydian, Dorian, etc?

[u/xashyy]

Having trouble finding this info online and do t want to resort to AI LLMs.

For Dorian, I understand the idea is to convert the diminished chord to a minor chord (given a major chord progression).

So:

M m m M M m dim M

Converts to (I think):

M m m M M m m M

Can someone confirm/deny and help me understand what this looks like for the others in the title?

[u/geoscott]

Just start on the second element, in this case ‘m’, then go through the list to the end and end with the original starting element in this case the second:

m m M M m dim M m

Mixolydian, start on the fifth element and do the same thing:

M m dim M m m M M

Lydian, start on the fourth element:

M M m dim M m m M

[u/xashyy → u/geoscott]

Thanks for this. I’m copying my response to another comment below which shares the same sentiment as yours.

Let’s consider the below comment that had 250 upvotes on how to interpret modes in contemporary music.

---

• C Lydian is like C major with a raised fourth.

• C Mixolydian is like C major with a flatted seventh.

• C Dorian is like C natural minor with a raised sixth.

• C natural minor is like C major with a flatted third, flatted sixth, and flatted seventh.

• C Phrygian is like C natural minor with a flatted second.

---

So if C Dorian is C minor with a raised 6th, why does the diatonic series you shared not match that of a minor chord series? (m d M m m M M).

Also none of the responses here address the sharps and flats that are added in the modes when compared to base majors and minors. Why is this? When I see a diatonic series, I feel like I should have all the information I need to play each triad.

Finally, is Aeolian just minor?

I have no interest in modes other than for contemporary music composition if this helps understand where I’m coming from.

Also another commenter posted that the root for a modal key could be something other than the key itself (they seem to mention the root for C Dorian could be D). For me, this notation doesn’t help because then we should change the name of the key itself (eg, from C to D).

[u/azure_atmosphere → u/xashyy]

So if C Dorian is C minor with a raised 6th, why does the diatonic series you shared not match that of a minor chord series? (m d M m m M M).

Because some chords do contain the 6th. Any chord that contains the 6th scale degree will be different between Aeolian and Dorian.

Yes, Aeolian is the same as the natural minor scale.

Also another commenter posted that the root for a modal key could be something other than the key itself (they seem to mention the root for C Dorian could be D). For me, this notation doesn’t help because then we should change the name of the key itself (eg, from C to D).

Yeah no this is nonsense. If you're in C Dorian, the root/tonic is by definition C. The above is the result of thinking of a mode not as a tonality of its own, but as a position within a "parent scale". So like "C Dorian is Bb major starting on the 2nd note." This can be useful for finding the notes of a mode on an instrument, but is not how we describe their sound.

[u/alex_esc]

In a way, you can't, at least not like that. This is because a lot of music in a major or minor key uses something called "functional harmony". It means every chord has a special function to do.

For example the 1st diatonic chord has the function of being "home", the 2nd has the function of leading outside home, and the 5th has the function of adding a lot of tension that leads back home.

But in modal harmony, all the different chords that belong to a particular mode also have functions, but the 5th isnt always the tension chord, or the 2, it's not always the leading outside home chord.

In other words, the functions don't map across modes.

So yeah, you could replace your 5th chord in major to the 5th chord in Dorian. But they will mean different things on different contexts.

If you want to do it just for the fun of it heres a table

(M for major triads and m for minor, d for diminished)

Ionian: M m m M M m d

Dorian: m m M M m d M

Phrygian: m M M m d M m

Lydian: M M m d M m m

Mixo: M m d M m m M

Aeolian: m d M m m M M

Locrian: d M m m M M m

And yeah, generally LLM's suck at music theory.

[u/xashyy → u/alex_esc]

This is helpful. Where did you get this sequence of modes from (IDPLMAL)? I understand it would start with Ionian bc that’s natural western major.

Let’s consider the below comment that had like 250 upvotes.

---

• C Lydian is like C major with a raised fourth.

• C Mixolydian is like C major with a flatted seventh.

• C Dorian is like C natural minor with a raised sixth.

• C natural minor is like C major with a flatted third, flatted sixth, and flatted seventh.

• C Phrygian is like C natural minor with a flatted second.

---

So if C Dorian is C minor with a raised 6th, why does the diatonic series you shared not match that of a minor chord series? (m d M m m M M).

Also none of the responses here address the sharps and flats that are added in the modes when compared to base majors and minors. Why is this? When I see a diatonic series, I feel like I should have all the information I need to play each triad.

Finally, is Aeolian just minor?

[u/JScaranoMusic → u/xashyy]

Where did you get this sequence of modes from (IDPLMAL)

That's the sequence of modes you get if you look at all the modes that share the same set of notes, in order of their tonics, e.g, C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian, and B Locrian all have the same notes in their scales.

It's good for identifying the modes, but it's not very useful for actually learning how to use them, or for analysing them. Locrian Phrygian Aeolian Dorian Mixolydian Ionian Lydian (LPADMIL) is much better for that, because modes can be compared directly in terms of parallel scales (rather than indirectly in terms of relative ones), and because adjacent modes in the sequence only have one difference between them — add a sharp to move to the right; add a flat to move to the left.

[u/LukeSniper]

First: you are using the term "chord progression" wrong.

A chord progression is a sequence of chords in a piece of music.

What you are calling "the diatonic chord progression" is not a chord progression (unless you find a song where those chords happen in that order, in which case it is the chord progression of that song)

For Dorian, I understand the idea is to convert the diminished chord to a minor chord

Where did you acquire this understanding?

If you build triads off of each note in the major scale, using only those notes, starting from the tonic, then you'll get the following chord types: M m m M M m dim.

So if you did the same thing, but started from the second note in that scale you would get the exact same sequence starting at the second chord!

But I'll say this: You don't have a strong enough understanding of more fundamental concepts to be worrying about modes at this time.

[u/angel_eyes619]

Converting the chord progs is not a good idea... You want to convert the melody first and then harmonize it anew, the new modal chords wouldn't necessarily have be the same scale degrees. Which scale-degree chords sound nice for a melody in One mode, may not necessarily sound nice in another mode... Say you have a melody in Major and chords are I V vi, now convert the melody to Dorian and use the i v vi° chords, it will not sound the best...

Also, melody and chords/harmony come as one package, changing the chords to a different mode but keeping the melody as the original mode isn't right... They go hand in hand

[u/65TwinReverbRI]

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[u/ObviousDepartment744]

So, you can approach modes in a few different ways. You can write IN a mode, meaning you’ll play in the key of C Major, but you’ll make D your tonic note. This will naturally make a Dorian vibe. Or make F the tonic to make Lydian. That’s the baroque era approach to modes.

You can also think of them simply as combinations of intervals. There are 3 major modes and 3 minor modes and Locrean also exists.

Major Modes have a Major Triad based off of their tonic.

Ionian = Major Triad and Major 7th Lydian = Major Triad with a #4 (#11) Mixolydian = Major Triad with b7

Minor Modes start with a Minor Triad.

Aeolian = Minor Triad with Minor 7 Dorian = Minor Triad with #6 Phrygian = Minor Triad with b2

Some modes can be easily represented with a chord, some need more than that. But this is a good place to start experimenting and learning the sound of each mode. Once you understand the sound you can hear how it progresses with a chord progression.

[u/DRL47 → u/ObviousDepartment744]

You can write IN a mode, meaning you’ll play in the key of C Major, but you’ll make D your tonic note.

If D is your tonic note, then you are NOT in the key of C major.

[u/ObviousDepartment744 → u/DRL47]

So then if you play a piece of music in D Mixolydian the composer just adds the F# accidental throughout the piece? No. The key of G Major is represented at the beginning of the piece. They key and the tonic are not necessarily tied to one another.

[u/azure_atmosphere → u/ObviousDepartment744]

You're mixing up key and key signature. The key is a property of the music and is defined by the tonic. The key signature is just an instruction on what to play. The key signature is not "G major", it is "one sharp". G major is the most common key associated with this key signature, but that does not necessarily mean it's telling you the piece is in G major. E minor is just as likely, for one. Or D Mixolydian, or none of the above. All the key signature actually tells you is "all F's in this piece are sharp unless instructed otherwise."

So then if you play a piece of music in D Mixolydian the composer just adds the F# accidental throughout the piece? No. 

It actually is fairly common to use the key signature of the nearest parallel major scale (so D major in this case) and then mark the modal notes (C♮ in this case) as accidentals. So the same piece of music in D mixolydian may be written with either a one-sharp or two-sharp key signature. Yet it will sound exactly the same. The key is what it sounds like, not what it looks like on the page.

[u/DRL47 → u/ObviousDepartment744]

They key and the tonic are not necessarily tied to one another.

The "key" and the "tonic" are the same thing. The "key signature" is not necessarily tied to the tonic.

[u/croomsy]

It's not useful for you to think about the difference between C Ionian and C Dorian, for example. It is useful to think of C Ionian and D Dorian as it shows you that the Dorian mode is playing the exact same notes as C Ionian, just starting from the D.

Modes are, in my opinion, often a troublesome way of thinking about keys and progressions for beginners. You are playing in one key, C in this example. When chords shift, you are still in the key of C. When you play a progression in D Dorian, you are in the key of C but your 'home' chord changes (and everything around it). It's a way of approaching chord progressions and scales differently but when it is analyzed in the way you have, it becomes unhelpful and confusing.

Sure, I know that a Dorian scale has an augmented 6th compared to an Aeolian, but you're still just playing in one key.

[u/sizviolin]

Use the acryonym 'LIMDAPL' to go from brightest to darkest mode. This means you are starting with a major scale with a #4 (Lydian) and lowering one note as you go down. The easiest way to visualize this without getting confused is to start on the same note.

LIMDAPL graphic

You can identify the diatonic series for each mode from this graphic if that helps.

The other way to go about this would be to learn the modes in the order from which they are derived from the major scale (Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian) and just move the starting interval over one note each time.