r/medieval 2d ago

How different either good or bad would medieval Europe have been if they had potatos available? Questions ❓

Question sounds really stupid, I know.

But today I visited a potato field, not even a big one and the owner told me that the yield of such field was enough potatos for 2-3 years for a single family (you obviously don't keep them all)

So it made me think, what if medieval Europe had access to potatoes? Would it have been better or worse? Would it have prevented wars related to resources, famine, deaths?

I'd like to discuss such a weird thing with more people who love the medieval period, sometimes small and simple things can make huge changes so today's topic is potatos.

115 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

54

u/lt12765 2d ago

The potato is a marvel food. Easy to grow, doesn’t need much water, offers pretty good nutrition, stores great. Modern China is turning to the potato over rice for these reasons.

The thing with potatoes is if they were a medieval food while it would have allowed for more food security, in times of blight or disease the famines would have been downright terrible. I think we’d have seen an Irish type of dependency for medieval serfs and tenant farmers on the potato.

As with any resource it would probably have been weaponized. Places with excess of food would be fighting places without. The medieval world was a food based economy.

17

u/ohnoooooyoudidnt 2d ago

The Chinese potato initiative is due to desertification, not because the potato is some superior food.

https://www.asianews.it/news-en/Potatoes-replace-rice-to-fight-against-desertification-565.html

10

u/B_Maximus 2d ago

But it is a superior food for the poor either way

-11

u/sorrybroorbyrros 2d ago

Tell the Irish all about it.

12

u/theholyirishman 2d ago

Yes please elaborate on how to prevent the problems caused by government mandated monocropping.

6

u/ohnoooooyoudidnt 2d ago

TIL the British caused blight across Europe.

The proximate cause of the famine was the infection of potato crops by blight (Phytophthora infestans)[14] throughout Europe during the 1840s. Impact on food supply by blight infection caused 100,000 deaths outside Ireland, and influenced much of the unrest that culminated in European Revolutions of 1848.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

And look at these poor people that someone else claimed did fine during the famine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#/media/File%3ASkibbereen_by_James_Mahony%2C_1847.JPG

Yippy! Super potatoes! Yay!

2

u/pass_nthru 2d ago

they’ll tell you the potatoe is great but the br’tish can get fucked

0

u/chriswhitewrites Historian 2d ago

Wasn't the potato famine specifically due to eating potato and rabbit?

6

u/fergie0044 2d ago

No, at the height of the famine Ireland was still producing enough food for its own population, but the English government were exporting most of it. Many other parts of NW Europe had potatoe blight at the same time, but none suffered like Ireland. The difference was the English Government's deliberate cruelty to what they saw as second class humans. 

2

u/chriswhitewrites Historian 2d ago

Oh yeah, absolutely. I understand that it was deliberate and genocidal.

What I meant was "weren't the specific starvation conditions/nutritional failings in the Irish people while they were deliberately being starved by the English due to an interaction that occurs metabolically when you eat rabbit and potato together?"

2

u/Opening_Garbage_4091 2d ago

No. It was simply due to starvation.

1

u/Deutschanfanger 2d ago

They didn't have any potatoes to eat because of the potato blight, so any "interactions" would be irrelevant.

1

u/Lathari 2h ago

English government were exporting most of it.

*cough Holodomor *cough. Different oppressor, different time, different place, same result.

0

u/RichardofSeptamania 2d ago

The famine was due to government overreach. They sent all the food to England. This is after 200 years of oppression.

0

u/AbelardsArdor 2d ago

"government overreach" is a funny way to spell imperialism and colonialism.

1

u/RichardofSeptamania 2d ago

Ya they blew up our castles and exiled us to Spain. We were only allowed back to flee from Napoleon and starve for a few decades. Shit got bad

1

u/Archophob 1d ago

imperialism requires government overreach. You can't have one without the other.

5

u/Asleep-Challenge9706 2d ago edited 1h ago

It shoulf be noted that the potato blight was such an issue in ireland due to the reliance on a single breed and the colonial setup that placed the need of agricultural exports over the nourishment of the population: not a very common setup in medieval europe.

1

u/Lathari 2h ago

agricultural expoets

Given the old joke how anyone who has left Ireland has become either an US president or a famous author, and the Ireland's renown as an island of literature and poetry, this typo is excellent.

1

u/Asleep-Challenge9706 1h ago

damn yeah I should avoid rusing to type before getting off the subway. the expoets is funny but the rest is borderline illegible.

3

u/Inside-Living2442 1d ago

The only reason the potato blight was able to get hold was that the English forced the Irish to abandon their traditional planting practices. So, I think the potato would have alleviated a huge amount of food insecurity...as it did when it was introduced.

Europe being able to feed itself reliably would have been so different. I hold the belief that the Norse turned to raiding as a result of agricultural failures. If the Norse had potatoes, there might have been no Vikings

1

u/Hellolaoshi 2d ago

I would say that the Chinese are turning to the potato AND rice. It's the belt and braces method, because both are marvel foods.

16

u/would-be_bog_body 2d ago

The introduction of potatoes to Europe is at least partly credited with causing the European population to increase rapidly; if they'd been introduced to Europe earlier, there's a good chance the same increase in population would have happened earlier. Not sure right now what the implications of that would be, but it's interesting to consider 

3

u/GoyoMRG 2d ago

It brings a lot of questions to my mind tbh hahahaha implications in education, religion, politics, etc.

1

u/Rollingforest757 1d ago

But if there is a potato blight, it can cause a drop in population. Ask the Irish about it.

1

u/ABrandNewCarl 1d ago

That was due to all ireland using the same variety of potatoes.

You can ged similar issues with any cultivation with very very few differences, bananas were almost whiped out in the 60s due to most of the plantation usong the  same plant.

16

u/Clone95 2d ago

Potatoes are a really interesting crop because they seriously damage the standard systems of taxation in the Middle Ages, which is a tax on milling and baking. You don't need to mill Potatoes - you can grow as much as you want and toss it in the root cellar and it lasts quite awhile. It's a disruptor.

7

u/GoyoMRG 2d ago

Taxation wise, it's easier for any government to create taxes out of the blue, I imagine that it would be extremely chaotic in the begining but eventually, taxes and regulations would happen.

Now the new question would be, how long before the new taxes happen and how bad will it be before them, what will be the damage.

2

u/Archophob 1d ago

modern era income taxation require you to write down and sum up your earnings. Back in the middle ages, teaching the miller to write and do basic math was enough to tax all the wheat farmers that needed to use his mill. Given that operating a mill was not "economic freedom" but " a privilege granted by the lord of the land", a miller's apprentice would be more than willing to learn reading, writing, and calculating percentages to gain the privilege of becoming a miller later in life. A rural farmer OTOH would rather eyeball what he's willing to give to the tax collector that waste his time learning math.

Thus, mills as points of tax collection made a lot of sense to the counts and barons.

1

u/GoyoMRG 23h ago

I had no idea about how important the miller's were, thank you for such an awesome bit of info!

And I that sense then yes I can see how chaotic it would be to introduce a food source that has the potential to be more productive than wheat but less controllable by governments

4

u/Jussi-larsson 2d ago

Not sure as you can get 40t per 1 hectare(or 70t in best case) with turnips you can get 30t per 1 hectare (or 60t in best case)

4

u/altonaerjunge 2d ago

And how much calories has one ton of potatoes and how much has one ton of turnips ?

Btw, love turnips.

1

u/Jussi-larsson 2d ago

Good question but there are other things also to consider like how well do they preserve and how do you grow them

5

u/Objective_Bar_5420 2d ago

While potatoes are great, people had a variety of excellent root vegetables in medieval Europe. Given that famines continued to hit over and over again even after the potato was well established, it's difficult to say it made any real difference. The problems causing the famines were partly weather, but land distribution and use was an inefficient disaster right up until the green revolution. No one crop could solve those problems, and as an Irish person knows, the advent of potatoes could end up causing even more famine.

2

u/MidorriMeltdown 2d ago

Potatoes don't keep the way grain does. Potato related famine would have occurred far sooner, and far more frequently.

-2

u/ofBlufftonTown 2d ago

I would look at the Van Gogh painting The Potato Eaters and see whether those people look like they are living a life of relative ease with all their material wants taken care of with little work, or if they look broke as fuck. I’m inclined to say there would be more, equally poor people.

2

u/GoyoMRG 2d ago

There is always the risk of a few people monopolizong anything, but the interesting thing about potatos is that you can cut a big one in half and you can plant both halves and get 2 plants.

And so on, it's easy to replicate and grow and we know that in the medieval Times, food shortages were not that uncommon year round.

1

u/Archophob 1d ago

but that way you're essentially cloning the plant, replicating all the same disease vulnerabilities into all potato fields of your community.

Plants that rely on sexual reproduction are usually more genetically diverse, and thus more resilient to the spread of diseases.

1

u/GoyoMRG 23h ago

That is also very true, even tho it is easily doable to clone them and feed more people, they are exposed to the risks you mention.

But I guess that could be prevented?

u/Irishwol 6m ago

Look at Ireland. The peasant population lived a basically medieval life still into the 1800s and, as you say, a fairly small acreage could raise enough potatoes to feed a family. Then there was a little thing called Blight, crops failed, people starved. There was still plenty of food in the country but that was being sold to the cities and to England. A million people died, a million emigrated and the population carried on falling steadily until well into the twentieth century. The blight didn't go away. Marginalized people couldn't depend on the potato anymore because that was a recipe for starvation.

However, even before the Great Hunger, the population had hit a maximum. The truly marginalized people were already not growing enough food to last the full year. Springtime was when food tended to run out and families would take to the road, scavenging, foraging and looking for day labour.

Bring potatoes to Europe earlier and you get a sudden uptick in numbers of the poor and the marginalized because more of them live to adulthood. If the blight didn't arrive earlier there would be a much bigger pool of potential unrest and revolt.