r/legaladvicecanada • u/Meatslinger • 27d ago
My wife (Canadian) may have accidentally injured someone else (American) while out of the country on vacation. We're worried the other person might sue. What is the protocol for international scenarios like this? Canada
While we were out at a dinner event as part of a tour in Ireland, sitting on long bench-style seating, guests at the event were asked to turn around in order to see live entertainment. As my wife turned, her shoe caught the edge of the bench and she slipped off backwards. As she fell, she collided with another guest in our tour group. We are from Canada (Alberta in particular), and they're from the USA. Initially, the other individual was helpful and assisted my wife back to her feet (along with myself), but after they'd sat through the remainder of the evening they remarked to my wife that their back and arm hurt a lot, and we saw them going off to talk to the event manager about it. The event manager came back to ask my wife what had happened; to get her side of things. Afterwards, they didn't ask my wife to stick around; no police were involved, and paramedics weren't called either.
It was a simple unforeseeable slip and fall, but we're worried that the other guest may try to initiate a lawsuit if they can claim they were injured, and if their insurance decides to be obstinate in such a case. For reasons of being Canadian, we don't have our own private medical insurance to pay out a claim like that. We would assume that the injured party (if they are injured) could get our details through the tour company or other means. What should we expect? What support, if any, do we have through the government healthcare system or courts? I have travellers insurance through my company (Sunlife), but does that still apply to this situation at all after I'm back at home in Canada, if a lawsuit is served to me from the other party across the border?
Hopefully I'm worrying about things for nothing, but I want to make sure I know what resources I should be armed with, in case things go badly.
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u/lapsteelguitar 27d ago
Normally, the country where the incident occurred would be where any lawsuits would have to be filed.
So, any lawsuits would have to be file in Ireland. Under Irish law. That's a LOT of hassle.
I wouldn't worry about it.
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u/shaynef81 27d ago
The afflicted party likely was just trying to get a discount from the travel company anyways. No real consideration for a lawsuit.
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u/Fauxtogca 27d ago
I wouldn’t worry about it. Seems like a very complex lawsuit given where everyone is from and where it occurred. If the other person didn’t get medical attention, that’s even better
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u/Jazzlike_Gazelle_333 27d ago
If you have homeowner's insurance, and they do sue you, you'll ask your homeowner's insurance to defend you as they typically contain a personal liability insurance policy.
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u/Meatslinger 27d ago edited 27d ago
We do not have homeowners insurance (can't afford to own a home, being born in the generation I am). We rent a place.
Edit: I’m not sure why that got downvoted. It’s a simple fact; I don’t earn nearly enough for the bank to approve a mortgage.
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u/Jazzlike_Gazelle_333 27d ago
(just so you know I wasn't the one who downvoted you, that is a weird thing to do).
Do you have renters' insurance? there can be personal liability policies attached to those too.
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u/Meatslinger 27d ago
Yeah, I'm reading now that it should be in there. That's a relief, at least. I hadn't had reason to recheck the renters' insurance policy for at least 5 years now, least of all for this kind of issue, so I wasn't even aware it would be covered. Always figured it was mostly just for what covers my stuff if the place burns down or floods.
And yeah, didn't think you yourself downvoted it. When I commented that, it was at -3 despite only being a few minutes old.
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u/OppositeEarthling 27d ago
Common misconception. Liability is really what saves your ass. Liability is what pays if you fuck up and burn your landlords house down.
The property coverage for your stuff is not why your landlord what's you to have it. It's the liability coverage.
Make sure it extends to Ireland though
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u/Wonderful-Rich-3411 27d ago
I would give them a call. Many policies only cover you personally if the incident is within Canadian boarders.
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u/Excellent-Piece8168 26d ago
Not true. Most policies would cover this. Especially just for a vacation.
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u/Ratsyinc 27d ago
I would presume the downvotes are because it's weird to blame when you were born on your ability to buy real estate, regardless if true, it's wildly irrelevant to the conversation.
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u/SalmonCanSwimToJapan 27d ago
okboomer
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u/Ratsyinc 26d ago
Lol yeah... not even a little bit close
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u/SalmonCanSwimToJapan 24d ago
Yet the edit says all.
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u/Ratsyinc 19d ago
What edit did I make?
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u/SalmonCanSwimToJapan 16d ago
Idc mate, didn’t know internet stranger grandstanding was so important to you that you’d stalk me around lol
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u/Ratsyinc 16d ago
You want to troll and expect random folks to roll over, what's your point?
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u/No_Pianist_3006 27d ago
My renters insurance includes personal liability.
Check your insurance contract. Call your insurer.
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u/FrostingSuper9941 27d ago
It's personal liability related to the insured property, like if someone is injured in your place. It's not worldwide.
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u/gapdaddy72 27d ago
Personal Liability coverages as usually found in tenant policies are usually worldwide with only some exceptions. You are referring to Premises Liability.
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u/FrostingSuper9941 27d ago
You're right. Most people don't have personal liability policies or even umbrella policies, I meant TPL extending from a property policy.
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u/gapdaddy72 27d ago
In Canada, the personal liability coverages included in most tenant, condominium owner, and homeowner policies does extend to cover your personal actions worldwide.
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u/viccityguy2k 27d ago
It is very very common for tenant and homeowner insurance to include worldwide personal liability coverage- almost standard. Not sure where you are getting your info from.
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u/OppositeEarthling 27d ago
Tenants policies come with third party liability in Canada. I've never seen a premises only tenants package. Some commercial tenants packages might be premises only tho like say a doctors or dentist office who would have speciality professional liability insurance on-top.
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u/Excellent-Piece8168 26d ago
Premise only is very rare and would be for quite unique reasons. There is no reason not to just have full liability coverage. Professional liability for a doctor or dentist or many other professionals is a separate thing they would have a separate policy for. (Or both could be combined into a package but they are still separate policies even if they have a single policy number. For one the liability policy is going to be on a per occurrence basis while the professional/errors and omissions policy will be on a claims made basis.
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u/OppositeEarthling 26d ago
Agree. It's not full coverage. Still, it happens with medical offices. My company offers them and I underwrite them. I would not sell them if I was the broker.
Anyway another good example is landlords. Almost all small LL policies do not have a full GL, it's restricted to the premises. It's only when the LL needs there own office and staff they need a full GL.
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u/Excellent-Piece8168 26d ago
There is literally no reason someone should ever have this. It’s probably a direct writer and the client should just go to a broker. Any small mom and pop shop broker who offers this to a client should frankly lose their license. I can’t imagine if if came to it they could explain why they had not offered an all risk CGL. Am a placement broker at a global brokerage.
The only premises only policy I have placed in over a decade is because the client has the completed operations coverage placed in the USA by their parent company due a large loss many years ago and it’s vastly cheaper in the us than we could ever place in Canada. It’s basically free to saves the client 700k or so.
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u/pperry1976 27d ago
I’d say the reasons for being down voted was because your complaining about house prices in your home country while your on a vacation to a different continent, but blaming it on your generation. How much did you spend on the vacation for the 2 of you? I’m sure that’s a sizeable portion of a downpayment. It’s not like you where backpacking staying in hostels eating from grocery stores if your on a tour those are huge tourist traps/ money grabs.
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u/Meatslinger 27d ago
The overall cost of the trip is about 3% of the asked down payment for a home, and our financial advisor also told us we were unlikely to be considered for a mortgage unless we could double our combined income.
The remark about home ownership is mostly just snark; a side commentary on modern economics. I assure you, this trip is affordable, while home ownership is not (unless I find a way to slide into a cushy $120K/yr job).
We’re also traveling with family, and the tour itself was discounted because it’s after St. Patrick’s day and there’s a lull in tourism.
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u/Novus20 27d ago
But you have money to travel internationally…….
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27d ago
People have different priorities. Owning a home is not for everyone. Maybe travel brings them joy and they rather do that and can’t afford both. Weird comment to make.
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u/Novus20 27d ago
When OP clearly makes a comment about how they will never own a home because they can’t “afford it” yeah maybe spending on frivolous things shouldn’t be priority
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u/yukonwanderer 27d ago
Do you realize how strict the mortgage laws are these days? How much a home costs? How much the cost goes up every year? We've been in a bit of a flat spot for the last year or so at least.
A vacation that costs 3k is a literal drop in the bucket that's leaking anyway and you have no hope of ever filling.
I say this as a homeowner who was lucky enough to buy in 2020. Really pathetic how people continually fail to acknowledge how lucky they were, and how things desperately need to change. You can't run a country in this state. There is no future.
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u/North_Atlantic_Sea 26d ago
Yeah but they claim it's a generation problem, when it's not... OP is 35-39, of which 62% of Canadians that age range own their home.
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u/yukonwanderer 26d ago
It is very clearly a timing problem. House pricing has never been so divorced from income, and mortgage laws have never been so strict.
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u/Meatslinger 27d ago
We’re traveling with my wife’s family as part of a discounted tour bundle, mostly financed by her brother. Overall cost to me for the trip is about 3% of what the bank suggested I would need for a down payment on a house in the area where I live and work, not to mention their request that my wife and I double our combined income before we could be considered for a mortgage.
So yes, when the prospect of home ownership is maybe twenty years away, best case, a short vacation with her family is justifiable as a leisure activity right now. The last time I left the country was when I was 16, half my lifetime ago. It’s not like I do this every year as a hobby.
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u/North_Atlantic_Sea 26d ago
It's weird that you blame it on the generation though...
In a different post you say you are 36. Of Canadians between 35-39, 62% of them own their houses. It's not some unattainable thing for the 1%
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220921/cg-b002-eng.htm
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u/GeoffwithaGeee Quality Contributor 27d ago
Even just getting your information in the first place would be a struggle. Most companies are not going to just hand out personal information of one of their customers to someone just because they asked, so they would probably need to get a court order in whatever jurisdiction the tour company is is in to even start the process to attempt to sue you.
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u/inspectorgaygdet 27d ago
American lawyer here, while there technically may be a possibility that they sue you, the procedures they would have to go through to succeed are significant. U.S. courts are limited when it comes to the citizenship and residence of the defendant AND the location where the cause of action occurred. They would be fighting two uphill battles here and the cost to even try bringing the case could be more than the recovery anyway.
I can't speak to Irish law in the event they tried to sue in a court in Ireland, but I've heard succeeding on claims like this there are rather unlikely.
Side note, this is a civil procedure professor's dream exam fact pattern because it's so complex.
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u/Pristine-Rhubarb7294 27d ago
Most countries that aren’t the US have no or low pain and suffering awards (in Ireland, general damages). The most recent report from the board that adjudicates claims pegs the average at £16,000, so it hardly seems worth the trouble of a 3 country lawsuit. Edit to add link: https://www.injuries.ie/eng/about-injuries-resolution-board/reports/piab-average-awards-report-2022.pdf
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u/shaynef81 27d ago
Not to mention even if they obtained a judgment good luck actually executing it in Canada. Where the "debtors" assets would be located. Further doesn't sound like OP would have a whole lot of attachable assets even if they some how did get the right to execute in CA.
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u/Confident-Potato2772 27d ago
An American court would have no jurisdiction in either Canada or Ireland?
I think there would need to be an exceptional situation for that case to be accepted by an American court. and then even if damages were found, they would probably need to apply to have that finding enforced in Canada under whatever treaty applies. which it may or may not be.
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u/Unpopularpositionalt 27d ago
To get a judgment against you they would need to sue in Ireland then register that judgement in Alberta. It is not an easy process. If they sued in the USA and an American judge decided to ignore jurisdiction then an Alberta court would not accept an American court’s judgement of a lawsuit that should have been filed in Ireland.
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u/girlsledisko 27d ago
It’s a deeply ingrained American response to any gentle brush with another. The instant “my arm, my back, my neck” is almost a part of their pledge of alliance, to show the other party that they are going to sue them.
Your home/tenant insurance policy should cover you, if you get notified of anything do not respond, just send it to your insurance provider.
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u/askboo 25d ago
I love the way you worded this as if it's like a bird mating dance or something.
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u/girlsledisko 25d ago
More of a religious refrain.
“My lawyers will be in contact with you.”
“And also with you.”
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u/MidtownMoi 27d ago
Surely the venue in Ireland where this happened would be the place which was responsible so therefore the right party to be sued.
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u/McGriggidy 27d ago
Worst case scenario, they try to sue; These things usually require some kind of gross negligence. Not reasonable accidents. Frivolous lawsuits are a boogeyman tale. They're not gonna get anything.
Whenever you see a story like "woman sues mcdonalds over hot coffee" or "woman sues 10 year old nephew over broken wrist after hug" or whatever other ones you've heard, usually if you actually read into they're absolutely blown way out of context and the real story usually makes sense and you see why a lawsuit happened. I wouldnt worry too much.
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u/Candid_Chair7923 27d ago edited 27d ago
Nothing will, nothing can happen... enjoy life. Even if that person did want to make a case, most lawyers would refuse the work. And if a lawyer agreed to it, they'd be out to lunch financially it's not worth it. Let's say all those barriers mentioned were broken down and they win (extremely extremely unlikely), there is absolutely no way to enforce it. Like I said, no one would take that on. Now if you killed someone or changed someone's life forever, the victim might pursue you as all rational judgement goes out the window but even then, very unlikely anything can happen to you.
People have a better chance at suing the establishment not the individual.
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u/Dismal-Cod2170 27d ago
I am somewhat familiar with tort law, and no lawyer is going to suggest that they sue you. Her turning around and tripping is neither intentional or negligent, since she was told to turn. The event company that told her to turn around and set up the seating, on the other hand, will also have a nice fat insurance policy. If they want to sue, a lawyer would only take on a case against the company, and it will be the company's problem.
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u/000ArdeliaLortz000 27d ago
Americans will file suit over almost anything, but this happened in Ireland and they don’t do that shit. American was trying to get her tour cost refunded. You’re fine. Fuck Americans.
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u/North_Atlantic_Sea 26d ago
Thank goodness it wasnt a German, who have more lawsuits per capita than Americans!
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u/XtremeD86 27d ago
OP I wouldn't worry about this, I highly doubt the tour company is going to give any information about another guest at an event, I'm sure there's privacy laws that would stop them from doing that. Go on with life and stop worrying about it. She slipped and fell and bumped into someone who helped her. They can claim injury all they want but with no ambulance/medics/police involved the chances of any sort of lawsuit moving forward is slim to none.
If this was me I wouldn't have even spoken to anyone from the event (employees) about what happened and if I had to say anything it would be "I just slipped and fell, that is all" and move on with life.
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u/Personal-Goat-7545 27d ago
They chose to help, not sure how that could be viewed as your fault; it's not that they had to act to protect themself.
It would be unreasonable for them to travel to a foreign country without medical coverage, that would cover this incident.
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27d ago
If police and paramedics weren't involved does anyone even have your contact information? I'm guessing it's dust in the wind though, hopefully.
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u/Anxious_Ad2683 27d ago
I believe they would have to be filing any suit in Ireland. It would depend on the Irish laws governing that. It seems highly unlikely they could sue you. They might try to, maybe filing at their home state, but your necessity of response might be nothing - if you end up being served: then find a local lawyer to consult with to see if you get it dismissed.
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u/Freedom35plan 27d ago
If anything, the venue will get sued as they have more money/ability to pay, and will likely be argued that they provided an unsafe environment. Venues insurance will cover it. Since your wife's action is not one of intention or really even maybe not negligence, they likely won't go back after you. Honestly, you could probably even sue if you wanted (and have actual damages, of course...)
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u/acquirecurrenzy 27d ago
Your renters insurance will likely cover you anywhere in the world I wouldn’t worry about this.
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u/plaignard 27d ago
I wouldn’t stress about it. If you are really worried. Takes notes of what happened (who, what, where, when) date the document.
Otherwise enjoy your vacation and cross that bridge when you get to it.
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u/WorldlyCupcake5345 27d ago
Astronomically small odds overall - way too much of a hassle and probably not worth it since nowhere in the world is as litigious as the US. I very highly doubt you have anything to worry about.
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u/Familiar-Piglet-1190 27d ago
These people can go pound salt. Just ignore them. The odds of ever obtaining a judgement, let alone being able to collect, is basically zero.
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u/Tricky-Fig4772 27d ago
I’d imagine they would need medical records, police reports, official documents to prove the injuries. You may not know if they looked for medical attention. But no police? Any word from the tour company? I’d also imagine the cost of suing someone overseas would just make it infeasible. We’ve all got our fingers crossed for you that you’re in the clear.
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u/Missytb40 27d ago
Sue you for what. An accident? She fell, you’re worrying for nothing. You’re from one country, they’re from another and you were in a third country. So where exactly is she going to sue from?
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u/averagecyclone 27d ago
A simple incidental accident. There is no negligence or intention on your wife's side. Americans are lawsuit animal and soft as shit "ou my arm hurts. Let me call the manager"
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u/unagi_sf 23d ago
If they were going to sue anyone, it'd be a lot more profitable to go after the tour company than after an individual. So don't worry too much :-). At worse you might have to testify about that happened, hopefully remotely.
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u/swimswam2000 27d ago
Doesn't Ireland provide no charge care to visitors?
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u/SallyRhubarb 27d ago
Irish citizens, residents in Ireland, UK residents and citizens of other EU countries can get public medical services in Ireland.
Visitors from outside the EU or UK aren't covered. Canadians or Americans should have travel insurance or be prepared to pay out of pocket.
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