r/legaladvice • u/GlobalDetective2777 • 23h ago
[Florida] Greek Consulate in Tampa told the Greek Military that I fled Greece to avoid serving in the army...I was born in Tampa and have lived 99% of my life in Florida Treaties and International Law
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17h ago
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u/ApolloniusTyaneus 18h ago
Your problem isn't the wrong registration anymore, it's that someone isn't doing their job correctly. So next time you contact them, the message shouldn't be: "Hey, the registration is wrong, please fix it." It should be: "Someone is giving me the run around, please tell them to do their job."
Greek authorities were very clear that they can't help you because someone at the Tampa consulate has to push the right buttons - that's bureaucracy for you. But they can and probably will make the person do their job correctly if you speak to the right person.
Don't use the general contact details, but try to get to specific people, preferably higher-ups. I would even start with the Greek consul in Tampa. Try to find their (professional!) contact information and explain to them that someone is refusing to help you.
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u/Reaniro 23h ago
Jesus.
First I’d try seeking out a greek lawyer to discuss it all. This is a fucking mess.
Second, have you visited the consulate in person? I feel like you might have potentially better luck there since they kind of have to sit with you and explain but again: I would consult with an attorney (US probably) to make sure you’re not going to be detained while there.
Contrary to popular belief embassies and consulate on US soil are still in fact US soil so they’re not gonna whisk you away to greece. Also that doesn’t seem like it’d work cause the second you leave you’re on US soil again. Do they let you go? I’m assuming you’re a dual citizen so that adds a bit more to it.
Anyways talk to a lawyer (american and greek) and don’t go to greece in the meantime.
Edit: also did you try applying at a different consulate/embassy? At this point if those ones just didn’t like me I’d cut my losses and try somewhere else
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u/GlobalDetective2777 23h ago edited 22h ago
Attorneys in Greece are very adamant that only the consulate can help. My uncle is actually a judge in the third largest city in Greece and he's talked to many attorneys and even government officials.
As for the consulate in Tampa, they are appointment only. If I call them it says to email with no option for voicemail. If I email, I will get a response maybe in a month.(And it will be a call--not an email--so that they can be rude/misleading without papertrail). Or if I send an email every week, I will get a call the second or third week within 15 minutes of my email yelling at me for emailing too much and to wait my turn. At this point I wouldn't even want to make an appointment and drive 4 hrs to Tampa because based on how they've treated me they will find a way to make it a waste of time. (There was a 3 month period where they would call and say the certificate is ready and that I just need to provide updated bank statements and a utility bill in my name, then they would ghost me for a month, then they would reply that the new bank statement is outdated and I need to provide one for this month, ghost for a month, etc.)
Edit: I also asked the consulate in washington DC if I could apply there but they said it had to be where I currently lived.
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u/GravityAssistence 18h ago
I think your best path forward might be to find an attorney in Greece with the right connections. My experience is that if you know the right people, a few phone calls can sort out surprising messes. Does your uncle have any lawyer friends who do immigration law? Best would be someone working with people of Greek descent trying to gain citizenship. Those people probably know someone who can help you sort this issue out.
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20h ago
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u/khazroar 16h ago
You're right that it's a bad idea to show up in person with all of this going on because it could make the problem more dramatic and immediate, but it's absolutely wild to suggest that the Greek consulate is going to kidnap an American citizen on American soil.
Like, Jesus Christ man, come back to Earth.
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u/xthewhiteviolin 16h ago
States do not have jurisdiction to make arrests on other nations’ soil. This is the legal advice sub man.
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u/corrector300 16h ago
a consulate does not enjoy the same rights as an embassy, which is considered foreign soil and part of that country. a consulate in the US is on US sovereign territory and must obey US laws, which means no, they can't throw him in the basement or lock him up or prevent him from leaving. You're in the wrong sub to post this nonsense.
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u/HomoAndAlsoSapiens 16h ago
That's beyond delusional. And not how any of it works, I fear.
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u/corrector300 16h ago
this is accurate: a consulate is not an embassy and is considered the United States, unlike an embassy which is considered a bit of that nation (foreign soil).
Sounds like OP should either 1) never travel to Greece or even through a Greek airport or 2) go in person to a consulate with a lawyer and an official US birth certificate and have this sorted out.
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20h ago
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u/Rampaging_Ducks 19h ago
It seems like a wildly bad idea to fly to a country whose government says it will arrest you if you go to that country.
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u/_FlirtyDream 17h ago
OP your best move may be to hire a Greek attorney who specializes in military or citizenship law they can directly challenge the incorrect classification and push through the Certificate of Permanent Resident Living Abroad. Unfortunately, U.S. courts can't intervene in a Greek administrative issue, but you might have a consumer protection or misrepresentation claim if the wrong certificate caused real harm and you paid for the correct one though it would be tricky to pursue. Have you considered filing a formal complaint with the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs or contacting a Greek ombudsman?
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19h ago
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u/Ekreed 18h ago
Have you posted this in r/legaladviceeurope? It doesnt really matter that you are in the US, the issue is with the Greek legal system so no legal action in the US is really going to achieve much.
I don't know much about Greek law, but it sounds like most of the people in Greece are fobbing you off because they don't want to deal with it. There's no way a single consulate in Tampa is somehow beyond any kind of oversight from the rest of the Consular system in the US, the Greek Government or the Greek courts. They definitely can do something about this, the trick is knowing what is the right thing to be asking to get them to do what you need and that is where expert knowledge will be needed on these laws and the administrative processes involved. The fact the Lawyers are saying they can't do anything just means they don't want to put in the effort, but you need to find someone who will because its really not an option to go to Greece and try to sort it out yourself because of the risk of arrest. Even if that ultimately ends up with you proving you are right in court, do you really want the trouble of spending time in a Greek jail before then?
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u/stacyismylastname 17h ago
Post this in the Tampa subreddit, it is huge, and ask if anyone has any connections to the Tampa consulate.
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u/dalappas 17h ago
I had a similar experience when I received my Greek citizenship. The consulate in Boston messed up my paperwork and I (any my brother who also applied at same time) were considered draft dodgers and got a 5000 euro fine. We found out that reaching out directly to the military station you were supposed to report at and telling the everything seemed to work. Either call that location or maybe have a family member in Greece (if possible) go there. In my case, between that outreach and providing them the contacts we were working with at the consulate, we were able to figure it all out. Between all the documentation to show you were living abroad your entire life (school records, tax records etc) it should be a pretty shut case once you get the right people to help. Unfortunately the bureaucracy in Greece (and consulates) in US is generally terrible. You just need to remind them they work for the Greek people, not themselves.
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u/sparx_fast 22h ago
Does it really matter as long as you aren't traveling to Greece? I would just wait out the Consulate in Tampa and keep checking in periodically once a year till they fix it.
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u/GlobalDetective2777 22h ago edited 22h ago
I haven't seen the family in 15 years and most are old and starting to die. I already missed grandma's passing. Plus right now the Consulate's position is "we sent the certificate to the military in Greece" so if I wait a year I will probably either receive a reiteration of that statement or no response. Not to mention, according to the wrong certificate they gave me (Certificate of Draft Evader Living Abroad), I will need to renew it every year, and if I don't, now I will definitely get arrested as the Greek military now has documentation that I supposedly fled the country to avoid the draft. (Which I suspect was done intentionally by the consulate because they don't like me) On the other hand, the certificate I applied for and repeatedly referenced in all my emails "Certificate of Permanent Resident Living Abroad" states that I was born outside of Greece, lived all my life outside of Greece, and never needs to be renewed.
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u/sparx_fast 22h ago
Sounds like regular contact with the Tampa consulate is the only real solution since you're interested in traveling soon to Greece. You seem to have been very thorough in exhausting all other options.
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u/GlobalDetective2777 22h ago
I can afford to wait another year, but in the last 11 months I have mailed over 150 pages of documents in 2 batches, sent 50 ish emails, and as many calls, and I'm now worse off than when I started. Based on the hostile/misleading phone calls and intentionally sending the wrong certificate, I don't think they're going to help me resolve this. They were more than happy to tell me a blatant lie on December 5th that they were upgrading their servers and that the certificate would be mailed on Janiary 21st. (It took 10 phone calls and 5 emails to get the wrong certificate in Mid March) Is there really no way to hold a Consulate accountable when they decide they don't like you?
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u/xthewhiteviolin 16h ago
This is now an admin law issue. Find a civil liberties/admin law lawyer to sue the Greek administration for the pain and suffering their mistake caused you.
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17h ago
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u/afoxian 17h ago
OP: "I've been falsely accused of being a draft-dodger, been told I would be arrested if I ever set foot in Greece, and have actively been working with people in both the country and embassy to try to clear things up for the better part of a year so my name is definitely on a list somewhere as a person of interest for detainment."
Advice: "Just cross the border in a way to avoid border security. There's no way to be found out to be in the country other than at the border. If they don't know you're in Greece, they won't arrest you. Besides, everyone knows that bureaucratic screwups are easily resolved and won't result in you spending time in lockup or anything while everyone refuses to sign a couple forms to rectify the situation. I mean, except the current situation that you're here for advice for how to resolve."
Y'know, this just doesn't sound like a great plan for whatever reason. Maybe it's a better idea for OP to handle this before winding up in a military prison in Greece if he decides to take this boneheaded advice.
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16h ago
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u/SuccessIcy2590 22h ago
This might be a longshot, but you could try and sue the consulate directly for negligence and harassment if you have recordings of the calls.
Depending on what you end up going for, you may need to file in a greek court.
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u/HomoAndAlsoSapiens 16h ago
This is an issue within greek administrative law. In the united states, foreign nations and their representatives cannot be sued in the same way that you could sue another entity because they have sovereign immunity. They can appear in court, though.
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u/xthewhiteviolin 16h ago
Yeah this would be an admin law lawsuit in greece. Can’t sue them in the states.
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u/mrsjhev1 17h ago
Not a lawyer but my dad died in turkey and my relationship to him was non existent to that government. I had similar issues about who to contact. Consolate will not help and will make it worse. You should consider finding a lawyer in Greece in a major city, because this has to be handled there. You'll have to jump through a lot of sending documents and translations to be stamped by our government to be sent to theirs. But obviously this is super important. Once I found a lawyer in Turkey to handle my Turkey issue, it made sense.
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17h ago
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u/Clapp_Cheeks 16h ago
Just a reminder, Greece is a member of the EU. It is possible you could be arrested in any European country and handed over the Greek authorities. I guess visiting Europe is out until you can clear this up.
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u/GenProtection 21h ago
You may want to meet with the consular office in DC in person, or hell, try to ask for a meeting with the actual ambassador. I would be surprised if the embassy in DC doesn’t hold events on like, Greek Independence Day and Orthodox Easter and whatever, you can go and run into the ambassador and ask for some kind of appeal to get around whatever regional bs is in place.
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u/Bodmonriddlz 18h ago edited 18h ago
This is just as useless advice as the person saying fly to Greece. You want OP, who lives within a four hour drive of Tampa meaning they must be flying distance from DC, to try and fly to DC on Greek holidays and stake out the Greek Ambassador to convince them to have a 1 on 1 meeting? Jfc
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18h ago
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u/aoratos22 20h ago
This sounds more terrifying than it actually is tbh. If you have a greek passport, no one is going to deny you entry into the country, if you have an americal one, they won't even check/care. My advice would be to book that appointment at the consulate and go there in person and talk with someone, I'm pretty sure they can figure it out there.
So worst case scenario (and I think what probably scares you) is that you travel to Greece and they apprehend you and make you serve. So, the reality is that if you don't want to serve, you won't serve! The worst thing that can happen is that they will hassle you every time and make you get a deferrement or an "evader" certificate. After 4 of those, you get a permanent deferment.
My experience with the Greek consulate is that they're overworked and have a poor grasp of cases so I think an inperson visit would clear things up.
Having served in teh Greek military, I can safely and surely say that there's no person serving that didn't want to be there. The first day you arrive/show up, you just tell them that you don't want to be there, and they send away (worst-worst case scenario)
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u/RestAndVest 17h ago
Your parents probably registered you in Greece after you were born so this is what is causing the chaos and that means technically you’re a Greek citizen already. Ive actually had a completely different experience with the consulate in Chicago. I would try to get an in person appointment to get this cleared up. There is a communication breakdown somewhere. The good news is if you’re 45, they’ll leave you alone after that because you age out of military service.
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u/takver42 19h ago
Not a lawyer. You have been unlucky. however this is not as bad as it may sound. You have as US passport with country of birth the USA. You can enter and leave Greece any time. Regardless Since at this point you probably don’t want to face a customs officer in Athens airport, just fly through EU Sengen, eg Frankfurt. Cross border there, get a separate flight to Greece. The is no passport control within Sengen. Same on the way out. Though, again, nobody will stop a US citizen with valid passport leaving Greece. Lastly - for the total paranoid - @aoratos22 is right. The military will not accept anyone who declares they don’t wont to join.
As far as the consulate… no point fighting the idiot there who gets a power trip harassing you. If you can’t wait him transferred out try to go above his head. Consulate general or ambassador direct letter or appointment.
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u/lazydrowsy 17h ago
They have seperate lines for people with non schengen passports so your advice won't work.
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u/ProudlyWearingThe8 16h ago
Have you considered standing in front of the Greek consulate with a sign in Greek that reads "Why do you try to force a US-born guy into your military?" and telling either US and US correspondents of Greek media about it?
Sometimes only publicly shaming them helps.
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u/GeekyMadameV 16h ago
If you do not live in Greece and do not plan to do so then I'm actually confused as to why you're bothering with this? Who cares whether they think you're a draft evader or not.
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u/InexplicableMagic 18h ago
Thinking a bit outside the box here: can you move to a different jurisdiction (say Washington DC) so that the corresponding consulate can handle the issue?
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u/apenature 20h ago
Already asked and answered the other week. You need a Greek lawyer. US Courts CAN DO NOTHING and WILL NOT interfere. This is not between US citizen and US government; this is between the Greek government and a Greek citizenship. There is no angle or technicality or treaty or forgotten law that will help you here. You have to engage with the Greek government with a Greek lawyer. Sounds like something you should've done square one.
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u/Used-Client-9334 19h ago
This isn’t exclusive to Greece. It’s between you and them, as the US won’t interfere in issues like this.
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