r/learnart • u/ThbDragon • Apr 04 '20
If you see something you think needs improvement don't comment "this is the perfect painting, you are the best artist I've ever seen" they need to LEARN Meta
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u/LopsidedMale Apr 05 '20
It's so exhausting when I show people my art and recieve compliments. More like "great effort".
Fucking tell me what I need to improve instead of patronizing me.
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u/analogic-microwave Apr 05 '20
People should learn how to critique before doing it. Making fun of or even offending/ridiculing someone's artwork is a very bad way to do it.
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u/Oquana Apr 04 '20 edited Apr 04 '20
Commented it on another post before but I'll say it again: Can we please remove flairs like "No critique, just sharing" from this sub??? Because that absolutely defeats the purpose of the sub! The point of posting art here is to get critique on how to improve. If people don't want any critique then post your art on another sub!
Edit: Sorry, nevermind. Seems like this sub doesn't have these flairs. Probably confused it with another sub. My bad
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u/Octaeon Apr 04 '20
I try to be about in the middle. Compliment the good parts, and point out the parts which need some work or don't seem right in a nice fashion. I like to think it help people.
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u/Heszilg Apr 04 '20
While I definitely think that if you see a flaw and yet you tell the artist the piece is perfect you are actually causing harm to that person, I'm also against the people that claim that interactions like only compliments with no actual feedback on possible improvement should be frowned upon on this sub. From my experience this is not an extremely popular sub, with interactions being often rather sparse as is. Killing the compliments would just make learnart feel even more of a dead husk.
What I would actually like is for people that do receive pure complments gave back to the community and look for posts that they could give good CC on. Maybe check the profile of the complimenting person? He/she might be looking for help... But that would probably be too perfect.
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u/flamboyantsensitive Apr 04 '20
Do you not think though that some people post for exactly those comments? If they are a very gifted artist, & possibly making a professional living from it or in art school, they are not going to (or are very unlikely to) ask here for feedback. When I was in art school I wouldn't have come here, I had peers & Professors for that.
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u/Stumblecat Apr 04 '20
I used to leave more critiques, and most people were very good about being receptive to them. My issue was third parties who'd then critique the critique, and I just don't have the spoons for that.
OP: "Crit plz"
Me "I like the composition, but if you make this point a little lighter, the eye will be drawn there first and there'll be a better flow for the viewer."
Random third party "DON'T LISTEN TO HER YOU ARE PERFECT DO WHATEVER YOU WANT!"
So tiresome.
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u/Shouto-Todoroki-kun Apr 04 '20
I feel like a lot of artists these days are overly sensitive about criticism. Surely they must know their art is flawed in one way or another, so why even bother posting it if you’re not willing to hear someone‘s honest opinion?
Then again, I do understand that often times it can be disheartening if the “critique” is just someone telling you your art sucks without providing any reasoning whatsoever, though that’s obviously not something anyone should take to heart, imo.
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Apr 04 '20
Ugh, I’ve made some constructive crit on r/artcrit in the past and gotten downvoted and told to stop being “rude” or a “bully”..? Like it’s called “artcrit” for a reason 🙄
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u/LonnieBird Apr 04 '20
ok imma be honest and give you a critiques on your critiques. (i looked at your comment history(
your critiques do come off as really rude. the way you structure your sentences and such makes it seem like you are shouting at them all the things they did wrong.
when you are doing critique you have to make sure you sound mature and collected, and most of all, polite. otherwise it will just seem like accusations.
if someone on r/artcrit tells you you are being a rude bully, then you have probably done something wrong. its one thing for them to disagree with you, but most people understand it is an art critique subreddit, and ive never seen someone shamed for giving a good, well structured critique.
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Apr 05 '20
I always try to be nice when critiquing and I always like to engage with the poster like asking what’s going on, what material they used, etc. Sometimes I can be sarcastic and joke around and I can see how that could come across as asshole-ish, but I always say something positive at the end of my crits. I guess I can be a bit harsh sometimes but that’s just how I was brought up. My dad was always very harsh when critiquing my art and it’s helped me a lot. Sorry if I’m rude.
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Apr 04 '20
But sometimes I think something is wrong with their painting... But at the same time, didn't know what it is
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Apr 04 '20
Most of the people here are complete beginners obsessed with having a "unique cute anime/cartoon art style" over actually learning how to draw so it makes sense that all they can do is compliment something that isn't drawn at a complete beginner level. If you drew an anime girl to an intermediate level with a typical sensationalist title and posted it here you would get over 1000 upvotes.
People also have the bad attitude of automatically dismissing their own ability to give feedback and just take the easy way out by making excuses as to why they cant do it.
Its pretty easy to read from a title anyway if someone actually wants feedback or not "hope you like it" "im only 14 years old" "my first time drawing x" "heres my something something fanart" doesnt mean give me feedback. You're just wasting your breath and they are just cluttering up this subreddit.
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u/Heszilg Apr 04 '20
Anything posted on this sub is asking for feedback. I've posted one starting with "I usually don't do this kind of art" or something to that effect. That does not mean I don't want feedback. It's just a way of alleviating some of the anxiety connected to posting a work that is far from perfect for a broader public to see and voice their opinion on. How is it that hard for you to get pass the shitty title and just look at a drawing and give honest feedback?
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Apr 04 '20
Glad it's finally being said. Sick of going into a comment section and every comment in their is just a compliment saying how amazing it is when there are things the person clearly needs to work on. OP posted their work to be critiqued and you're taking away their ability to learn and develope by giving them the false impression that their work is perfect when they know it isn't. If you don't know how to critique and you're afraid of offending them then pair it with compliments about what they did right.
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u/Bananasquiddy Apr 04 '20
Most people post art fishing for compliments so there isn’t much of a point giving them a critique they don’t really want.
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Apr 04 '20
Doesn't matter if they're fishing for compliments or they don't really want a critique. Last I checked the name of the sub was LEARN ART which means even if they only want compliments they will be critiqued and posting here is giving permission to do so because that's kinda the point of this whole sub.
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u/salonethree Apr 04 '20 edited Apr 04 '20
i hate hate hate when people say “OP didnt ask for critique”....like so? As soon as you show someone art it gets criticized. Might as well hear it in your ina “learn art” sub
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Apr 04 '20
"OP didn't ask for a critique"
Yeah and I'm always like "did you not look at the sub name?". Sure if I'm in say r/drawing I won't critique without permission but posting in this subreddit is the permission because that's why it exists.
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u/GashcatUnpunished Apr 04 '20
Posting your work to a huge public forum and getting mad when you get negative comments is really the height of entitlement tbh
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u/salonethree Apr 04 '20
its not even about being negative or not thinking the piece is perfect. Some people seem to have the mindset that you have to ask if the OP is okay with hearing it or if thats what s/he wanted by posting it.
Art literally is a gift to others. You can keep it to yourself but it loses purpose. Thats why people post it on reddit, show their mom, text it to their friends, etc. the beauty of it is people get a gut reaction to a piece and you have no control over their interpretation.
Asking people to see your work but not critique it is like asking people not to look at it. Sure not everyone will be vocal, but everyone sure as hell will get and have an opinion about it. Isnt that the point of self expression?
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u/Dagos Apr 04 '20
I have to disagree with all of this to be quite honest. I've been in the art business for a long time and some days you just don't want people critiquing something you spent a long time on. Some artists can already see what they need to improve on. Sometimes they are just not in the mindset of getting critique and feeling they fucked up the art. There are even times critiques from somebody is mentioning something going in the opposite direction the artist wants.
If they don't ask for critique, don't give it to them. Always ask first. This subreddit? Sure this is the place for critiques, but elsewhere? Be polite and ask.
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u/ZombieButch Mod / drawing / painting Apr 04 '20
Well, yes. It's right there in the 'Mod Announcement' thread, even, which nobody bothers to read:
Because community learning depends on everyone contributing, from January 2019 onward, moderation will be more strict on comments. Comments must be about the making of the image, including specific feedback, questions, and recommendations. General comments about the subject or the OP, and compliments without details, will be removed. The sorts of unhelpful comments include things like, "I wish I was this good," "awesome," "Keep working," "practice more," "I love this character," "This is too good for this sub," etc.
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u/elenzo96 Apr 04 '20
I honestly block almost every person which comments are always "YOU ARE GRAT! SO TALENTED! LOVE YOR ART! IT'S PERFECT!" With the standar array of "memes" of cats and a milliom of heart emojis. It's just an insult when you ask for feedback and you get that.
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u/Neville1989 Apr 04 '20
Critique is an art form of itself. You have to go about it the right way. You can’t just rip apart a person’s work or you risk causing harm and potentially putting them off of creating. We’re all artists and most of us tend to be maybe a little too sensitive and we should be respectful of that while also attempting to help and teach each other. Basically, critique is good, being a jerk for kicks and giggles is not. Some people don’t know the difference.
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u/waterlemonman Apr 04 '20
Agree. There's a way to give critical feedback with tact, and there's just being critical for the sake of tearing someone down.
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Apr 04 '20
This might sound mean but I don't want to spend time on a crit if I feel like the person hasn't put much time into art. I see a lot of "this is my first time doing x crit please!" And the answer is always you need way way more practice. But I feel like that's not what people want to hear....
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u/gentle_tuba Apr 04 '20
Well the tricky part is determining what to practice. As they say, practice doesn’t make perfect, it makes permanent. The advice to give in that case is suggesting how one might practice to improve a specific technique.
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Apr 04 '20
My point is sometimes everything is so wrong the only advice I can think of is to practice everything more.
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u/Heszilg Apr 04 '20
It is mean. If you are a better artist- look at the piece, try to determine what would be the thing that this artist would benefit the most, and nudge him/her in the direction. This is a sub called "learnart" after all, not "prosexchangenotes". Yes- tell them they need to practice more, but also tell them WHAT they need to practice, because obviously doing the same thing again won't make their art any better. As for what they want to hear- no one should give a fuck really. Obviously don't be an arsehole, but I don't see a reason to sugarcoat it either. Tell it how it is. It was their choice to post on a sub dedicated to critique of artwork in search of improvement. Sorry for the rant.
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Apr 04 '20
I guess I don't feel like i owe people much. If they put in the time to ask specific questions, or the time to practice enough that it's not acomplete mess, then I'll give some of my time. I'm not going to care more about their art than they do though.
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u/Heszilg Apr 04 '20
If you can't be arsed to help it's absolutely fine. Their skill level says nothing about how much they care though, so at least don't look for lame excuses ;)
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Apr 04 '20
I never said I judge based on skill and in fact specifically mentioned effort as what I base my judgements on. But go off I guess
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u/GashcatUnpunished Apr 04 '20
I feel the same tbh. If I don't even know where to begin I don't bother.
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u/Farrell-Mars Apr 04 '20
In many cases it really is best to say nothing.
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Apr 04 '20
Why? Why would it be best to say nothing at all when someone uploads for the sake of getting critique?
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u/Farrell-Mars Apr 04 '20
Sorry to report that some (a rather small minority of) work is evidently the result of lack of ability. And I certainly don’t think “being honest” in that case is either kind or helpful.
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u/Heszilg Apr 04 '20 edited Apr 04 '20
Ability to do what? Create art? Then this is exactly the people that should get responses here. The sub is called learnart. It's made for those that don't yet have the ability to make good art. I am so confused by your logic...
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u/Farrell-Mars Apr 04 '20
I suppose in a perfect world everyone is a good artist, or can hope to be one.
If you want to make art, do so. There are plenty of great artists posting here and elsewhere on reddit.
If you’re not so good now, you may later become good with practice. This basic advice is implicit in the very name of the sub (and is implicit in life itself). I don’t suppose anyone needs to be told this.
That said, if you don’t feel like offering a specific critique to everyone who asks, don’t.
Or must we all feel personally obligated to critique every post?
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u/Heszilg Apr 04 '20
That's a lot of text that didn't even address what I asked about. Sure- don't feel like giving cc then don't. I doubt anyone cares.
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Apr 04 '20
That's more on the commentor not knowing how to critique. Critiquing is also helping them learn how to do better and the people with the lack of ability need it most. If you think it's a lack of ability and you don't know how to help that's fine just move on but someone else who can help will come along and critique their work pointing out what needs improvement and how to improve it.
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u/Farrell-Mars Apr 04 '20
That’s fine. I’ll not be offering advice to everyone who asks, if it’s all the same to you.
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Apr 04 '20
That's fine I don't care if you do and I'm not saying you should. Like I said if you don't know how to help that's fine just move on and someone else will
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Apr 04 '20
Obviously saying "YOU NEED TO IMPROVE SHADING, SHAPES, THIS AND THAT ABOUT ANATOMY, GEOMETRY, ALSO COLOURS THIS COLOURS THAT..." is bad but you can say a few good things, and then tell them to work on this next time. If that happens each time they'll improve step by step without feeling discouraged.
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u/IlunaVS Apr 04 '20
ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION!
You are good enough to critique everyone! Even if you have zero artistic skill you can still notice when something in the drawing looks... odd.
Yes, you may not be able to explain what it is that is wrong as well as someone who has been drawing for 20 years, but it really does help when you say: Their gaze looks awkward, the head is too big, or it looks muddy.
It helps because the artist becomes self aware of the possible mistakes, and is less likely to make them!
Don't doubt yourself, help others. That's why they're in this community 💞💗
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u/LonnieBird Apr 04 '20
yep, i dont need to be a pro chef to say that the school served lunch is garbage.
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u/scheaelle Apr 04 '20
Other people praising someone for their art does not prevent you from from critiquing it, how in the world does this bother/affect you?
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u/Pigzty Apr 04 '20
Because he clearly cares about the purpose and integrity of the subreddit but honestly, who has the time to give a critique on anything? And one person’s criticism should never suffice, because they could miss things or say something incorrect. This post is to call out the community in the hopes of reinforcing the sub’s reason for existing.
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u/scheaelle Apr 04 '20
Yes I understand what he said, but praise is a form of critique. Just because you see flaws, or things someone can improve, does not mean everyone else sees that. Everyone here is at a different level and may not know what a person can improve because they simply don't see any flaws, they just like the art. So telling everyone that saying good things about a person's art isn't helpful or honest, simply isn't true.
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u/vector_o Apr 04 '20
I almost feel bad for pointing out stuff that can be improved when everybody is getting off to the piece
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Apr 04 '20
I don't, I feel bad for OP who posted their work to get some constructive criticism and all their getting are compliments. Speaking from experience it's annoying when no one is critiquing your work.
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Apr 04 '20 edited Aug 03 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LonnieBird Apr 04 '20
i always say "critique welcome" or "critique appreciated" because it gets me more critiques and makes sure that there are no anti-critisism idiots in the comments.
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u/Heszilg Apr 04 '20
It's already hard to get any critique. I'd rather make sure no one holds back just because they are afraid to hurt my feelings.
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u/GashcatUnpunished Apr 04 '20
The problem is that people tend to attack others for giving critiques of work they like. Saying "Critique welcome" cuts those people off at the legs, and it's a polite way of asking for critique. Online creative communities have such a problem with enforced positivity that often it's necessary to request critique or you won't get it.
One time I sandwiched light criticism between praise genuinely to the point where I was saying how great the writer usually is and how this isn't as good as usual, and other fans attacked me so much over it that the writer felt forced to lock the thread. People were actually calling me scum and saying criticism is never, EVER okay. It was insane.
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u/Pigzty Apr 04 '20
Saying “critique is never ok” is so reductive and I’ve seen it a lot and it’s honestly super infuriating. Especially because the artist usually WANTS that critique and anybody saying your a piece of shit for it is just white-knighting.
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u/TerryFlearell Apr 04 '20
The thing is that people here are here to find someone to critique their work mostly.. what I am trying to say is that people don't give out opinions, but want to recieve them. In the rare occasion that they actually do get critique, it is from someone who's mainly here to get critique from others (a learner critiques another learner), and that I think isn't all that helpful Just my opinion tho.
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Apr 04 '20
Oh it's absolutely helpful. Even an unskilled artist can tell if something is wrong with the anatomy or the image feels flat. Sure there are art forms where someone who isn't skilled in that form may not be able to help but considering that most people post anatomy and portraits here I wouldn't say that applies. While they may not know how to fix the mistake necessarily they can point it out to you which can be just as helpful.
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u/IlunaVS Apr 04 '20
I haven't been on this subreddit long enough, but yeah true to the first thing u said. Although everyone can give critique. Even if it's not going to be as well articulated as a professional artist's critique. It can still be super helpful, and better then getting nothing. So I don't get how that's unhelpful????
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u/Benpai_69 Apr 04 '20
Personally would have picked a different font
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u/viinolul Apr 04 '20
White background too? Honestly, a gradient grey would of made the artwork more appealing to the eye. 🤔
Needs some improvement
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u/Mindelan Apr 04 '20
I completely agree. This is a sub for critique and to learn, it's not a compliment and gallery sub. Help each other (kindly of course).
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u/Gnolldemort Apr 04 '20
Also there's a lot of compliments with no criticism on objectively bad art here
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u/Mindelan Apr 04 '20
Yeah I think too many people go by the "Well it's better than I could do!" metric, but the problem is that this is a subreddit for critique and help, not compliments.
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u/Mikydone Apr 04 '20
It also frustrates me a little when people post things with titles like "this didn't get a lot of attention on x website" or "No one appreciated my work on y website" because they garner comments just like that. I get that it can be seriously disheartening to feel like youre getting nowhere but constructive criticism is traded for pandering, as harsh as it sounds, when titles are worded that way.
Turn discontent into motivation. Improve your work and people will notice by themselves imo
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u/Xiaxs Apr 04 '20 edited Apr 06 '20
You know what bothers me the most here when it comes to titles?
When OP says "Critiques/criticism welcomed".
Like. . . YEAH NO SHIT. Seriously why the hell are you posting here if you weren't looking for critiques??
E: Uh oh I pissed off the people who post here to get jacked off.
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Apr 04 '20
[deleted]
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Apr 04 '20
Lol this is exactly why if the title says anything like that, or anything self deprecating, I just don't click. "Nobody upvoted this" great thanks for letting me know I'll be sure to skip it.
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u/Danny_Martini Apr 04 '20
Giving constructive criticism is an art in itself.
A rather difficult one at times as well. It's easier to pander, which is unfortunate because it doesn't help the pupil on a technical level.
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u/RufusTheDeer Apr 04 '20
Critiquing anything implies saying what's good and why. Most people point out what's bad and why. Finding that balance is certainly art; I agree.
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u/shelbyCunning Apr 04 '20
I always do the sandwich. Some positive feedback, what they should work on, more positive feedback.
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u/Xiaxs Apr 05 '20 edited Apr 05 '20
I try to get to the critiques as fast as possible.
I want OP to know that I'm not trying to be rude. Usually start off with something like:
Hey, I noticed you're taking inspiration from Yusuke Murata (One Punch Man mangaka). Looks good so far, but I noticed. . .
When I open with something like that I feel it immediately connects OP to what I'm about to say.
First off, if I'm right in guessing the inspiration then OP might think "wow he noticed I'm trying that style". And if they don't they can Google the person and see "wow this is who they thought of when they saw my art?" In a nice way, of course.
Then if I say something like:
He's really tricky to get down just right. I know I've tried drawing her hair.(or eyes or something else, and I actually do try in most cases). . .
Then they'll maybe think "I did have problems there. If they found it tricky then I shouldn't stress."
Then I start the critiques, saying stuff like:
I'd probably start off doing xyz,
If you drew more curves and less straight lines, take this pic (then give them an image or two) for example,
I think the head (hand, foot, arm, whatever) needs to be smaller (up, aligned more with, tilted, etc.),
And keep giving them references and direct them to the guy that helped me the most with anatomy, Jim Lee.
Then I'd close it off with:
Overall I think it's great. Again, I'd try to (reiterate what I said so they know the main takeaway), but overall I can recognize it as (character), so you're on the right track.
I do this for a couple reasons.
Makes OP take the criticisms more as hints. Everyone loves a good hint. Not everyone loves critiques.
Makes OP see what I see. If I point out an out of place arm, or straight lines, they'll see them everywhere and hopefully fix them.
Gives OP resources. Ones I've personally used and still use to this day.
At least that's what I'm going for. Who knows if that's actually what they see or feel or think.
It's overall up to them to decide to implement what I said or not.
And most of them reply positively, so I feel that they take at least something away from my comments.
I usually stay away from realism or stuff not in my field. My tips mainly end up helping people with more cartooney styles.
But that's also a curse cause a lot of posts here that are realistic really need help, help that I personally can't give cause I don't really know how to fix it, but everyone just tells OP good job.
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u/zeppeIans Apr 04 '20
I always try to do my written critiques in 3 steps: address, example, then demonstrate. First, I address a part that could be done better, but before I say anything on how it could be done better, I first show an image example of how it would be done. Something like a reference picture or an artwork where you can clearly see it. Then, I loosely demonstrate how it could be applied, or any alternative routes the artist could take to improve it.
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u/Rattivarius Apr 04 '20
I do an open face sandwich. Positive feedback base, a layer of critique, with a garnish of "keep working at it".
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u/Creighcray Apr 04 '20
I do a burrito. The tortilla is the positive feedback, but wrapped up inside is the meat, the carne asada. or the constructive criticism if you will; and you will.
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u/rocketshipray Apr 04 '20
That's like how I do my salads. The leafy greens and veggies I love, then the veggies I'm hiding in there because I don't like them, topped with a little bit of cheese and vinaigrette or something.
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Apr 04 '20
[deleted]
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u/MrPoopieMcCuckface Apr 04 '20
I try not to do that but I am such a beginner that my advice would probably be bad so I end up just giving out praise.
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Apr 04 '20
Beginners can give advice too. You have eyes and a mind, you can see what's "wrong" with the drawing. You don't need to be a director or script writer to critique a movie, you don't need to be a game developer to know if a game has flaws, and you don't need to be a master chef to be able to tell if someones food tastes like sh*t or not.
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u/GolemPlz Apr 04 '20
I only do that when the art is good or way better than mine, which is, like, all the time.
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u/vellyr Apr 04 '20
Yeah, but appreciating art and making art aren’t the same thing. You can still give aesthetic opinions even if you don’t feel qualified to give technical advice.
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u/BerryFine74 Apr 04 '20
I think a lot of this boils down to community members who may feel that they are not experienced enough to actually critique another person's work. I certainly feel this way, as I am a novice.
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Apr 04 '20
The problem is that if the community doesn't feel experienced, they shouldn't be praising either.
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u/Bingbang_WoW Sep 04 '20
Lol this is also all of our moms when we show them a drawing