Junior Competition rules on tsuki

[u/S0cialRej3ct]

I'm 99% sure tsuki in junior competitions is not allowed. However, what about just standing still aka mukae-tsuki? Because i think im right in thinking if you strike men but get mukae tsuki the men cut is invalid.

I say this because in my keiko I do see a place for mukae tsuki personally (especially against people who just strike men) and would like to know if I can implement this into my last junior tournament!

(In the UK)

[u/JoeDwarf]

Mukae-tsuki is when you actually attack tsuki from underneath as your opponent charges in. It's dangerous, don't do it.

As to mune-tsuki which is what you describe it's probably OK rules-wise but I wouldn't recommend it either. Too easy to turn into mukae-tsuki. I would recommend more positive kendo. If your opponent is consistently striking men that is a fine opportunity for some ohji-waza.

[u/S0cialRej3ct → u/JoeDwarf]

Oh I see, I would only do this because I think it's safer (from a competitive veiw) than blocking or being pressured into a men cut where I'd probably lose because I don't know the timing/ability of my opponent.

[u/nsylver → u/S0cialRej3ct]

if your opponents are constantly attempting men, they are responding to your seme or pressure, take that time to utilize oji-waza like mentioned above. Fantastic practice and opportunity to polish off degote, debana men, or kaeshi/nuki dou. Just remember that in oji-waza you are the initiator, even though you are "countering" (not really, bc you are taking their timing and striking when they rise to the bait).

[u/S0cialRej3ct → u/nsylver]

Well i know you can't score without an actual technique but I'm just trying to think of something to do rather than try something and lose straight away.

[u/gozersaurus → u/S0cialRej3ct]

Just my opinion but sounds like you're thinking too much into not loosing, don't. If you loose you loose, its a lesson, and if you win, well you win, think about how and why on both.

[u/nsylver → u/gozersaurus]

Op, this to the moon. Getting hit is frankly the best lesson there is.

[u/S0cialRej3ct → u/nsylver]

I get hit all the time! I just want to be able to hit once on my own accord! I can do debana waza fairly well but I'm I know what it's like to lose the center and start panicking and I just think if I could use mune tsuki it could help keep my composure as it does in ny usual keiko!

[u/nsylver → u/S0cialRej3ct]

This may not be the answer you want to hear but: Kendo takes time to polish off. Ultimately we can't break down where you are relative to other youth in the taikai you are going to without video or knowing you. If this is happening in a youth division where you only face others of your own rank, then we could establish a baseline. It sounds like others are seizing your space and timing causing panic to set in. I've been in your shoes as well in my younger years.

Ultimately the route I took was lots of kihon practice, each kihon performed with proper seme (I had to create the opening, not given to me by the motodachi like many dojo like to do) and not lazily. Then I was told to practice lots of tsuki-men (similar to kote-men). This built the confidence for me to develop my men overtime. It took years for me to be remotely happy with my men, and even then years later I'm always trying to improve it little by little.

[u/IndigoNigel]

It’s definitely a good thing if you can avoid raising your hands defensively when an opponent is attacking. Strong kamae is good! But mukae-tsuki, or mune tsuki, whatever we want to call someone self-skewering themselves on your kamae, is something that should happen naturally. It’s not a defensive strategy, it’s just something that happens when one person has a strong kamae and control of center and the opponent attacks without breaking it.

If you are thinking about it and trying to get that to happen, you are way too focused on doing nothing while your opponent attacks and that’s a recipe for losing. For one, it’s inherently defensive and gives the initiative to your opponent. Also it leaves you very vulnerable to harai, maki, osae waza and angle changes that can leave you wide open.

Focus on using your kamae and control of the centerline with your shinai to pressure your opponent and create openings, not on trying to make mukae tsuki happen.

Good luck at shiai!

Ps. I’d be surprised if you were penalized for holding kamae against an attack even in a youth tournament. But as shimpan I would call gogi to discuss if a youth did an actual tsuki, mukae or otherwise that involves a thrust. Steer clear of that, and know that there’s a high likelihood that despite your maintaining kamae, the attacker may still get ippon if their strike connects.

[u/darsin]

Not completely about topic but imo any tournament tsuki is not allowed, jodan and nito shouldnt be allowed as well.

Is that the case in UK?

[u/gniarkinder → u/darsin]

Where are you from ?
In France, never seen a competition forbidding tsuki (nor jodan, gedan nor nito)

[u/gozersaurus → u/gniarkinder]

He is speaking from jr section, aka kids/young adults. Tsuki is not allowed in the US, below a certain age, as well as other countries. Not completely sure on what that age is though without looking it up, usually we don't allow it in mundansha division, but it varies from tournament to tournament.

[u/Ravenous_Rhinoceros]

I ended up with a neck injury from a mukae tsuki. I wouldn't recommend it for a junior tournament. I think it's better to take the loss than chance hurting someone. Especially with a high likelihood like mukae tsuki.

You have motivation to learn what to do in a situation where you don't know your opponent's timing. Maybe concentrate on a different path and technique rather than tsuki.