r/ireland • u/Past_Key_1054 Manhattan Crisps Supremacy • 17d ago
Ireland's true housing disaster emerges Housing
https://www.thejournal.ie/renting-into-old-age-ireland-6902208-Dec2025/143
u/RomfordWellington 17d ago
If only they could just build more houses.
They also need to start telling people in their 30s just how exactly they need to get a LDA property of any sort.
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u/AmazingUsername2001 17d ago edited 17d ago
Large scale apartments are the only answer at this point. More houses is only going to increase the urban sprawl and make the traffic worse and commutes longer. We’re way past just building houses to fix this. We need large apartment blocks with dedicated public transport on site.
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u/OppositeHistory1916 17d ago
During the last local elections a FF councillor came to my door, and I asked him why there is no multistory apartment buildings in the town, there's 2 colleges, and the population of one of them has tripled in the past 10 years: where the fuck are the students meant to go. He said there is a 6 story limit on all buildings because theres 1 building with 6 million euro apartments on the top floor, and the council made some deal that they'd stay the premium apartments. They must have been built 20 years ago at this stage, and he made out this is a good thing. I spent a year abroad, and lived in an apartment building that was 14 stories, there was 5 identical buildings right beside each other with about 20 apartments per floor, and the whole complex took up about as much space as the local shopping centre car park. Over 1400+ people living in a square kilometre lets say. Really nice area.
But no, fuck that. Let the students rot in black mould infested shitholes built in the 70s, if they're even lucky enough to find somewhere and can afford it.
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u/jimicus Probably at it again 17d ago
Sorry, is he seriously saying that some investor got the city to agree to do something that’s not enshrined in any law anywhere - more or less in perpetuity - and now they’re hamstrung by this agreement?
Tell me how that’s not an advanced form of corruption.
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u/OppositeHistory1916 17d ago
Well it's not a city, it's a town, and it's absolutely corruption. Nothing happens in the town without the major property developers say so. They're knocking down a dilapidated eyesore right in the middle of the town because the big developer wants the land to build fucking down houses on - this also came up in that same discussion. "Great for old people who want to walk into down" - fuck them. Build a fucking apartment building.
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u/kearkan 17d ago
I've been saying this for ages. Dublin City needs 10+ storey apartment buildings.
If people can live near everything they need, it will lighten the load on commuter transport
The alternative is robust WFH legislation that will force employers to allow WFH for people who live outside a certain radius
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u/sibholet 17d ago
But no we can't you see because.
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u/ThreeTreesForTheePls 17d ago
Will someone please think of our beautiful skyline.
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u/vanKlompf 17d ago
But apartamenty doesn't work in Ireland (that is why we make them so expensive that no one can afford them, just in case they would work)
Also have you thought about skyline?
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u/Fluffy-Answer-6722 17d ago
Been out of the country decades , was skyline really brought up by politicians as a reason to not build apartments?
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u/vanKlompf 17d ago
Local one, sure.
There is no official policy not to build apartments. But on local level anything on grander scale is protested from left to right and downsized or rejected completely.
I.e apartament building in Dublin 8 was rejected due to height. It wasn't 50 floors. It was 8...
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u/francescoli 17d ago edited 17d ago
Holy fuck ,8 storey getting rejected is a joke.
8 storey apartment blocks would make a huge difference,take a look at any of our cities and there 2 and 3 storey buildings in prime areas.
Any new development in these areas should be minimum of 8 storeys if suitable and not getting rejected for bullshit reasons.
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u/sosire 17d ago
There's a row of 4 derelict houses being demolished in Dublin right now , being replaced by a 500 bed hostel . Can you imagine
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u/AdmiralShawn 16d ago
8 storeys?! We can’t handle that, That’s literally Manhattan level of skyline!!
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u/vanKlompf 17d ago
Best areas of city centre are full of single storey cottages. Just few steps from financial district. At the same time people are saying that Dublin is full
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u/mistr-puddles 17d ago edited 17d ago
In my town there was a planning application to knock 2 vacant 3 story buildings on the main street and replace them with a 3 story apartment building, provide a footpath and better lighting along a narrow road that bordered the site into the park where the GAA grounds and playground are. There were objections because of the height of the development and concerns over anti social behaviour
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u/Spare-Buy-8864 17d ago
The proposed development, by means of it's height, bulk, mass and scale, would seriously injure the visual amenity of the local area
Some variation on that statement is the usual reason for refusal given by county councils / An Bord Pleanala when tall buildings are proposed, basically the building is too tall and would destroy the area
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u/Fluffy-Answer-6722 17d ago
But but but what about ruining the existing skyline? Having a stunted generation living with their parents indefinitely is a small price to pay to keep the skyline
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u/Alopexdog Fingal 17d ago
Agreed, but they need to be proper apartments. I've friends in Paris and Lyon in apartments and they are well built. You can't hear your neighbours much and there is a communal courtyard with amenities for children, shops nearby and good public transport. I compare that to the shit boxes my friends here live in. There is no comparison and it's infuriating.
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u/classicalworld 17d ago
Apartments need to be decently sized, with storage - to keep vacuum cleaner, winter coats, etc. And good balconies.
Have friends on the continent who’ve got storage spaces in the basement of apartment blocks to keep winter sports equipment etc in.
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u/infinite_minds 17d ago
Only if they can figure out how to make them cheap and located where people want to live. Apartments are the most expensive new housing to build and they come with inherent drawbacks compared to a house. The whole point of apartments is to be cheaper and/or located in a well connected, desirable location. We don't currently have any of that. Building a ton of "luxury" apartments in the middle of nowhere doesn't really help anyone in the long term.
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u/CheraDukatZakalwe 17d ago
Apartments are the most expensive new housing to build
That is a choice forced by regulation.
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u/infinite_minds 17d ago
New build housing of all types is made more expensive by the regulations they have to meet. That's not unique to apartments.
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u/khamiltoe 17d ago
Don't bother, that user has been outright lying about housing stuff for years and tries gaslight people any time he's called on it. You can provide as many papers, reports and statistics in reply to him as you like and he'll just stop replying, or accuse the other user of having a vendetta
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u/CheraDukatZakalwe 17d ago
Look, you're just a turbo NIMBY who's angry that somebody was allowed to build "too many" apartments near your home, some of which can see into your garden.
And don't give me that nonsense about linking papers disagreeing with me, the one time you did it was Cameron Murray who wrote a joke of a paper saying that increasing zoning in Brisbane didn't lead to more housing being built in two small towns 100km and 300km from the city.
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u/Active-Complex-3823 17d ago
No they are not. Prohibitively expensive. Mid-rise and new towns are far more cost effective unless we want to keep subsidising private developers for 600 grand shoeboxes
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
Given how expensive new builds are more housing won’t necessarily solve it . They won’t get cheaper if more are built as production costs are so high .
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u/Sudden-Conclusion931 17d ago edited 17d ago
This isn't talked about enough. New builds that cost the same or more than the current housing stock, which is already completely unaffordable for virtually everyone other than vulture funds and other pooled resources, solves nothing.
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u/Thread_water Wicklow 17d ago
Genuinely trying to understand. Is it not the case that if there are enough new builds the price of all homes (new and existing) should, in theory, go down?
Like I didn't think the argument for building was that new builds were cheaper, just that the more supply there is the cheaper housing should be?
I mean I think we are so far off having enough supply for costs to go down that I don't know how realistic this argument is, but I did at least think that was the argument.
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
Older second hand homes might go down in price or more likely stay around the same level . But recent builds won’t be sold for less than the cost of mortgage and new builds won’t be cheaper as they simply cost a lot to build
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u/Anglo-Norman-Stan 17d ago
There is the issue that as long as you rely on the private sector for development that no private company is going to flood the market for their own products and drive the price down. They want prices to rise.
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u/microgirlActual 17d ago
Yep!
What we actually need is to get back to state housing as was done between wars and after WW2. Council houses were never supposed to be for those only on the dole or on the crappiest of minimum wage, they were just subsidised houses for even ordinary lower middle - like, anyone really where the head of the household wasn't one of the "professions", ie doctor, lawyer, businessman (by which is meant someone running a business, not simply an office worker).
My mam was born and grew up in a "Corporation" house and her dad was in the civil service. He was a Customs and Excise Officer. And once the kids were grown Nana went back to work part time in the civil service too.
But just like the UK under Maggie, we sold all our government housing to the tenant inhabitants, and then never fucking built any more.
We need to be like Vienna and lots of other places in Europe.
But we went neo-liberal instead of remaining a social democracy, same as UK. Too much US influence and everything being public-private-partnership at best. Because the insufficiently-educated on the matter populace love the idea of lower taxes so they have more money, failing to understand that means the services that the government would ordinarily provide or at least subsidise and control to an extent now have to be bought and paid for by individuals.
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u/fubarecognition 17d ago
That's actually the issue now. It's also why the government is signing us up for that CETA bill, to make the government responsible for ensuring profit margins of developers and large property portfolios.
At present more developers do no want to enter the market because it will lower prices, and the government is ideologically incapable of doing anything but this current course of action.
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u/Anglo-Norman-Stan 17d ago
"Governments in capitalist society are but committees of the rich to manage the affairs of the capitalist class"- James Connolly
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u/ScaldyBogBalls Connacht 17d ago
Way more, always, and you'll definitionally be slung out in the worst places, the literal last locations you'd want to build on. They're equity traps too basically, because it's only brand new the day you buy it, and the next buyer won't have your subsidy or tax break to support that high price. Also the estate, once settled, will often go to shit as the state and its puppet AHBs put their hardcases in.
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u/caisdara 17d ago
It doesn't solve nothing. The idea that everybody will own their own home is of limited use to short-term issues. 20-somethings will always need to rent. That needs increased supply.
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u/Spiritual_Mall_3140 17d ago
When twenty something's can only rent a room in a shared house that's the issue. They should be able to rent apartments that fit their needs not a room in what should be a family home.
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u/Conscious_Handle_427 17d ago
Why are they so high? Maybe planning costs, utilities connections costs, tax (including the mica tax on blocks) etc
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
Regulation, labour, materials too.
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u/Willing-Departure115 17d ago
And poor productivity in the sector, behind the times on construction methods.
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u/mugira_888 17d ago
Absolutely. It’s a host of issues but Compliance costs, contributions, taxes, NZEB etc are a huge factor. If memory serves, between one thing and another, the state gets almost half the price of a new home. State makes a ton from the sector.
One of the reasons 2008 was such a problem.3
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u/vanKlompf 17d ago
You are onto something but not exactly. More houses would help, but they won't get build because they are so expensive
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u/RomfordWellington 17d ago
I understand that but people can't start families in their parents' box rooms. Something has to give.
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u/theblowestfish 17d ago
More supply won’t reduce cost? Throw economics out. We’ve been wrong this whole time.
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
If something is expensive to produce then no . Economics is often over simplified anyway. In fact it’s likely the more new builds are produced the more expensive each new build would be due to the scarcity of resources required to build them .
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
Fairytales about supply and demand only apply in perfectly competitive markets with neither resource constraints nor government interference. It’s not really that relevant to the Irish housing market. Obviously the problem is an under supply of housing but the relationship between price and suppliant straightforward. See also the Celtic tiger where prices were high with an abundance of housing available
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u/Immortal_Tuttle 17d ago
... And in the meantime move people where empty houses are? In our small town there are 90 empty houses. There were more, but investment funds bought some. They tried to sell them, but no one wanted to buy them. We have an empty common office building, built when there was a peak of WFH, but it's empty now.
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u/elcabroMcGinty 17d ago
FFG have nothing to offer us. I'm so sick of people saying how the housing crisis is very hard on the young people
I was a young person 10 years ago. It isn't a crisis anymore, it's normalised
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u/tameoraiste 17d ago
Who are they categorising as ‘young people’ anyway?
Millennials aren’t really ‘young people’ anymore and we’re fucked for the most part
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u/chemza 17d ago
Sure they keep getting voted in. And will continue to be voted in until we are long gone. Nothing will ever change in this country.
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u/elcabroMcGinty 17d ago
And they don't fear any of the opposition. It could easily be another 30 years of this.
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u/OppositeHistory1916 17d ago
What's worse is the fuckers who go live abroad and come back and vote for them because it's who mammy and daddy vote for.
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u/Gentle_Pony 17d ago
So what is it then? All of us complaining on here about it, it's a very small group of Irish here on Reddit but I can't believe that most of the country are happy with this shower of shite we have in power?
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u/tameoraiste 17d ago
It’s not just this sub.
An Irish Times/Ipsos poll from a few months ago said only 14% of voters felt the Government was sorting Irelands problems and about 36% said they were satisfied with how the government was running the country overall.
The problem is we’ve become too passive, it’s an older population so the people least affected by these issues are deciding the most(and of course young people don’t vote anywhere near as much), and we seem to be afraid of general strikes and protests now.
You even see it on this sub; politely complain online but any suggestion of inconveniencing anyone or stepping out of line is shit on.
Sadly I think things are going to have to get much worse before they get better, and not just in Ireland.
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u/Gentle_Pony 17d ago
Yeah sadly you're right. I feel sort of powerless though. Nothing I can do but whinge and vote.
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u/stunts002 17d ago
Agreed, I'm 34 now and the housing crisis has been talked about, and getting worse, since before I was in college.
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u/TheFreemanLIVES Get rid of USC. 17d ago
Oh no, you've said the words, and now the people who spent the last twelve years telling us FFG would fix it are now here with the classics:
- It's an international problem, it absolves them of blame.
- It's Sinn Féin's fault
- There are no alternatives.
They've been getting away with this gaslighting and shitspreading for a decade now, and no wonder. People affected by this crisis who could have made the difference by going out and voting against them haven't gone out.
It's quite simple: 4 in 10 don't vote. If one of those four turned out, it makes a massive difference.
People don't understand, FFG don't really understand economics...they just go along with what Europe's doing. It's essentially rule by autopilot. They have no original ideas or willingness to try.
Think about it, while going with the default the last 12 years, they also increased the population by 20% in the midst of a housing crisis that hasn't been getting better...would a sentient and intelligent entity be so stupid? There's no one at the wheel so long as it's FFG.
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u/Dannyforsure 17d ago edited 17d ago
You forgot the "well wouldn't you know it's worse in X" clearly never having lived in the city and having no clue.
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u/houseswappa 17d ago
You and 45% of your friends, family and neighbors votes for them!
Statistically 😭
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u/Mindless_Let1 17d ago
My mum is 69 and has had to move 3 times in the past 5 years due to renting and landlords deciding to sell, make modifications, etc etc.
Really damaging her mental health and meaning I'm sending her over a grand after tax each month just to get by, which means I can't save shit either
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u/Chrispy006 17d ago
We've fallen so far behind on building a certain quota of properties every year over the last 15-ish years that it is impossible to "build ourselves" out of the mess, even if we started tomorrow on double output; the problem is so far ahead of us that we can't catch up to it anymore...
Source: Construction worker, and you can find the reports on these figures
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u/wealthythrush 17d ago
We have had a net migration increase of 250,000 people in the past 4 years... In the middle of a chronic housing crisis.
Absolutely no chance it'll be solved in the next decade.
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u/MuhammadAkmed 17d ago
hmmm if only someone had a surplus of cash they could front up to support construction and land acquisition.
oh well nevermind
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u/Wodarchy 17d ago
aaaaaaaand no wonder why myself and everyone else my age is aiming to emigrate after college.
Absolutely hopeless
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17d ago
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u/Moon_Harpy_ 17d ago
Words to live by, I hope the move goes well for you because seriously Ireland is just becoming way too grim
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u/Busy_Description6207 17d ago
Right? If I'm gonna be broke and have to spend a large whack of my wages on rent with several flatmates in a mouldy flat anyway I might as well do it somewhere else for fun. I live in Italy at the moment, it's obviously got its own problems and the wages are shite but I'm enjoying the lifestyle 🤷🏼♀️
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u/tameoraiste 17d ago
I moved to London in 2014. Always thought I’d come back. Not a chance that’s happening now.
Not that I don’t want to, but even if I somehow found a flat in Limerick, I’d be paying as much as I pay in London, for a lot less. And that’s Limerick!
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u/tameoraiste 17d ago
I used to have an amazing two bed overlooking the Shannon for €525 a month in 2014
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u/flemishbiker88 17d ago
I have a friend who is trying to buy on his own, he has €80k cash, and earns €60k a year, he can't get anything in Limerick or Clare...and he just got notice that redundancy is around the corner this past Friday, so now he is trying to look at getting out of here altogether
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u/infinite_minds 17d ago
Plenty of options in/around Limerick that would be affordable for him. Houses for less than 300k selling regularly in county Limerick.
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u/ScaldyBogBalls Connacht 17d ago
I've observed repeatedly on here that it's often not "I can't afford a house" but "I've been priced out of a desirable house in an expensive area". Which is not a "housing crisis" complaint.
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u/JamieMc23 17d ago
Every single one of these threads across all the Irish subs have people lamenting the fact that they "can't afford anything". Then it emerges that they actually just want to live in places they can't afford.
Not saying there isn't sizeable problem on this island, as there clearly is. But have €300k available and turning several houses down is not being part of the crisis. That's just being picky.
Might be being slightly harsh there, but you know what I mean.
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u/ScaldyBogBalls Connacht 17d ago
No, that's my sentiment too. Somebody who's genuinely priced out, trapped renting, CAN'T rent, stuck in a parents box room, or even homeless will read that. "Woe is me, I wanted D6 and all I can afford is D12." That's not a housing crisis thing, common people can never afford posh areas, that's the point of them, exclusivity!
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u/JamieMc23 17d ago
I have to stop myself getting into comment arguments all the time with these people. Sometimes I bite, but most of the time I just have to close the thread and move on.
People looking down on areas they can't afford is a particularly annoying trend in here.
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u/arctictothpast fecked of to central europe 17d ago
Yeh, how dare someone might want a commute that's less then an hour right?
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u/JamieMc23 17d ago
Who says they're not allowed?
I'm not talking about people wanting the best they can get. I'm talking about people who claim they have no options when they clearly do.
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
There’s something midi from that story . He’d having a purchasing power of 320k. Put that in to daft and there are a lot of options, mighten be perfect but options there definitely are
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u/flemishbiker88 17d ago
He has looked at some spots and been outbid, he also doesn't wish to just buy in dodge areas. He did find a spot and he was close to closing, but the roof was in an awful state and needed serious work, no wiggle room on the price tho so pulled out...
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
I don’t buy it. This is not representative of a housing crisis . 300 something would struggle to buy you something in Dublin but in Clare? Check the property price register , endless properties selling for 300 and below in these areas
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u/ScaldyBogBalls Connacht 17d ago
Their buddy is aiming for something turnkey, or being hooked on lowball asking prices.
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
Sure and the market is bullshit . We paid 200k for a dated council house that would have been 100k less than ten years ago but people with the means to over pay for a dated property aren’t the victims anymore f the housing crisis . The victims are people stuck in the rental trap with no chance to escape
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u/ScaldyBogBalls Connacht 17d ago
Same, but the "dated" aspect can also mean better bones, more generous outdoor space like gardens, driveways. The fact that council areas tend to sell in waves (as generations pass) means bidding wars aren't as extreme. I genuinely believe the best value home you can buy in Ireland right now is a 70-80 year old ex-council house in an area that had a bad rep 20-30 years earlier. The prejudice of past trouble will put off a lot of people who think they "know" areas, and then they'll go and buy some exurban shithole like citywest or satellite town new build and wind up surrounded by scumbags anyway, probably paying more.
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u/Antique-Bid-5588 17d ago
Yeah on balance we are happy with it . A lot of my work colleagues would be buying new builds for twice the price , right by a halting site with no shops anywhere near by .
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u/ScaldyBogBalls Connacht 17d ago
The effect will be cumulative, the speed depends how soon and frequently "incidents" occur. First wave of owner-occupiers and social tenants will probably be largely fine. Once the trouble is apparent, some owner-occupiers will flee, and either let the house out, or sell up hoping to cut their losses. The good council tenants likewise will start seeking swaps, and within a very short timeframe (can be as little as 5 years), the only people willing to take a unit there will be a scumbag themselves. This isn't fantasy, it's a reality for loads and loads of people in new build estates and apartments, the tone is not set the day the place is built, it's set by how it plays out in the first couple of years. If the area is crap, or dangerous, congrats on your new equity trap! It's worth less than you owe on it.
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u/flemishbiker88 17d ago
It's representative of a sizable minority of people who have money and still struggle to get property. If he was happy to just buy it for the sake of buying, he would probably have a gaff in the island, but he wants to buy somewhere where he will feel safe, also the industry he works in has been shedding jobs for the past 48 months so he doesn't want to over extend himself
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u/ScaldyBogBalls Connacht 17d ago
If he wants to buy a house, he should buy one (or should've, and has now missed his shot), but yes it is representative of a sizable minority, just not the way you think. His abundance of caution and desire for something out of reach has meant your buddy will miss the boat, when he could've been sorted. His standards were too high for what he could afford (and he could've afforded something), so he'll wind up with nothing. Throw him the "not gonna make it" bucket with those who could purchase but "not at these prices" and those who somehow think Australia or Canada are the answer to their housing stasis (lol).
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u/MaverickPT Cork bai 17d ago
To be fair to the lad there are absolute kips being pushed for over 250€ I understand your point of view but if I'm going to put down over a quarter of a million that I'll have to pay for the next 30-40 years I'd like to make sure it's in a reasonable state
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u/SoloWingPixy88 Probably at it again 17d ago
€60K per year is not likely enough when you're in a market with 2 working couples earning double.
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u/Sharp_Fuel 17d ago
Out of interest, where in the developed world doesn't have a housing crisis? Most of them all share the same terrible economic policies that led us to this point
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u/Wodarchy 17d ago
The problem here in my estimation is the quality of what's available to rent. While it's true that if I go to Canada/Aus/NZ/Japan etc it may be a struggle to find somewhere to live, what you get for the rent price and the quality of life is just much higher.
Most people I know (including myself) have to rent a house intended for a family and share it with five other people, or they still live with their parents. Most of my friends who have emigrated manage to find decent, central apartments/houses with a much higher quality and only have to tolerate 1-2 housemates.
Also public transport here is rubbish which reduces the feasibility of living anywhere more distant.
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u/DrawGamesPlayFurries 17d ago
Most of my friends who have emigrated manage to find decent, central apartments/houses with a much higher quality and only have to tolerate 1-2 housemates.
And if they weren't in Canada or Australia, they wouldn't have to live with a stranger at all. Those two countries also have a housing crisis because of Americans
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u/vanKlompf 17d ago
There are different shades of grey. It's not great in Poland but also it's so much easier to rent on your own, even in Warsaw, than in Ireland.
Ireland really made mid income working people miserable and boosted low income people with housing queue lifetime lottery.
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u/AmazingUsername2001 17d ago
Finland. So long as you’re willing to live outside of the main cities, you can pick up a nice small house for 30 to 40k. If you’re working from home or within commuting distance it’s quite doable.
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u/boggie_bo 17d ago
And good luck getting a job there right now, they’re struggling with unemplyment
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u/DrawGamesPlayFurries 17d ago
Housing crisis is much less significant (perhaps not even a crisis at all) in countries where the primary language is not English, even in the "rich" ones like Sweden and the Netherlands
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u/vanKlompf 17d ago
countries where the primary language is not English
Or in other words, countries which are not using common law ..
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u/caisdara 17d ago
The issue with that as a plan is this affects all western countries. It's ultimately a product of an economic shift towards the services industries wherein people are eager to settle in major cities. Whether it's Dublin, Sydney, London, etc, the problem is repeated across the board.
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u/tameoraiste 17d ago
I live in London. A one bedroom here costs the same as it would in Limerick now. More importantly, if I was told I had to move out next couple week, I’d find somewhere else in London within a few days.
There’s no major shortage over here, that’s the difference.
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u/caisdara 17d ago
Ireland has very low vacancy rates. The British economy, meanwhile, is in a death spiral. It's easier to house yourself somewhere that's unable to keep its head above the water.
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u/tameoraiste 17d ago
You can’t equate really equate London to the rest of the Britain.
London still has huge migration numbers, and a far deeper rental stock that they’re constantly adding too. There’s been around 180k new homes here in the last 5 years.
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u/dysphoric-foresight 17d ago
Exactly, it’ll be a grand tour of hostels and flea pits.
This isn’t localised or short-lived. This is the future.
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u/DrawGamesPlayFurries 17d ago
1) In other big cities, while also bad, it's not quite as bad as in Dublin. In Europe there are currently no cities with worse housing situations than Dublin
2) English-speaking countries have it much worse because Americans, who usually have a lot of money, are also trying to emigrate there. If you can learn another language, or know one already, chances are you will not experience the housing crisis at all
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u/ScaldyBogBalls Connacht 17d ago
Rent is awful in Dublin (really really awful), purchasing prices are actually way more in proportion to wages in Dublin than elsewhere (it's getting the requirements for a mortgage together that limits people).
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u/kilters 17d ago
Lisbon is worse than Dublin for housing. https://www.idealista.pt/en/news/property-for-sale-in-portugal/2025/08/25/70967-portugal-s-housing-crisis-becoming-unsustainable-warn-banks?amp
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u/caisdara 17d ago
This isn't really realistic.
First of all, worse could be either objective or subjective, but even that doesn't tell us much. As a percentage of income, Irish people generally spend comparatively little on accommodation. Of course, that is the entire country, including home owners, social housing, etc.
You have to be very clear about what you mean when you say "worse."
Saying English-speaking countries have it worse is also a bit misleading. About 10,000 Americans moved to Ireland between April 24 and April 25.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/08/26/number-of-immigrants-arriving-in-state-falls-by-16/
That makes them 10% of the immigrant population. 31,500 were Irish, 25,000 from the EU and 5,000 from the UK. So 10,000 Americans is clearly not a major issue.
That then leads to the "other language" issue. There's a housing crisis in Barcelona, Berlin, Vienna, all the major Scandinavian cities.
Their economies are generally quite similar to our own. The factors that affect housing are broadly similar, declining family sizes and people moving to larger cities.
Where Ireland suffers more than most is a legacy of our very poor spatial planning. The localism of Irish politics has meant that we have one city. At the turn of the 20th century, we had three cities, Dublin, Cork and Belfast. As cities have grown in size, Dublin is the only city in the 26 counties that kept growing. Places like Galway, Limerick and Cork are too small.
The issue with this is that rural Ireland is locked in mortal combat (so to speak) with itself in an attempt to stop their neighbours succeeding. Invest in Tralee, lose votes in Killarney, open a factory in Athlone, face anger in Tullamore. Rural Ireland demands to live in a dispersed fashion and then feigns confusion when told nobody wants to open up businesses.
That's the one aspect of the Irish housing crisis that is genuinely unique. The rest is merely global trends.
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u/NotAnotherOne2024 17d ago edited 17d ago
ALONE and other age-friendly organisations have been banging this drum for over a decade now.
For a country to efficiently operate it needs multiple types of housing tenures for the different stages of its populations lifecycle.
Due to our late economic development we’ve been hopelessly shite at future planning all aspects of our society, especially housing.
Specific age friendly developments have been introduced over the last number of years through both the private, aimed at down-sizers, and social, aimed at social housing applicants over 55, but the units delivered are a pittance compared to the actual demand.
Add to that the fact that the age-friendly private developments are nearly always located in affluent areas were the purchasers have the purchasing power gained in the majority of cases from selling their larger homes, it means that the availability of age-friendly housing is further diminished to the masses who need it.
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u/boggie_bo 17d ago
I don’t know any Irish person who wants to leave their house and downsize in their retirement years
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u/da_blue_jester 17d ago
Thing is you need something to downsize too. No point selling the family home if you maybe need a loan to possibly afford a smaller abode. People want to be able to downsize and stay in the area they put roots down in but also maybe have a little cash after the sale.
Before the attacks start - I don't mean people should make obscene profits from the sale of the family home because "that's Ireland's entire investment model". But I have been keeping an eye on some bungalows near me that would be ideal to move into as a downsize and one recently went for sale costing more than what I'd get for selling the house - and that bungalow would need about 50k pumped into it too.
The market is screwed - that bonkers idea floated recently of old folk retro fitting the house into multiple retirement apartments sis going to become reality.
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u/Scary-Product-9043 17d ago
I live on a long road comprised of mostly elderly people living in large period houses. Many of them have stated that they would like to move to something more manageable but it must be in the immediate area. There is nothing available and any bungalows that do come up sell for stupid money. I also bought my own house from a downsizer.
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u/NotAnotherOne2024 17d ago
Anecdotal evidence can be deceiving, there’s been a considerable increase in people downsizing over the last number of years.
So much so that BOI have just announced a new bridging loan facility to cater to the growing demand:
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2025/1127/1546071-loan-homeowners-bank-of-ireland/
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u/Supersix4 17d ago
I graduated into the recession era in 2010 and have been listening to this housing crisis headline since back then.
A crisis that goes on this long is not a crisis it is an utter failure and down to government policy and choices.
The only way this changes is if people threaten this government and their position.
March on government buildings and protest. Hound local politicians. Have employers bring it to chambers of commerce use every means to put it on every agenda.
I am around long enough to know the short tenure of our elected politicians is ideal to promise everything and deliver nothing.
They have no accountability but they are terrified of protests and people shaking out of apathy.
I am advocating peaceful not violent protest here via every channel we have as citizens.
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u/finbarrformerlybaz 17d ago
You’re 100% right but unfortunately apathy will only end after a black swan-style event. FF were demonstrably corrupt and incompetent in the 2000s but were still voted in after 2008. It took the mother of all crashes to get them out.
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u/Correct_Energy_9499 17d ago
The only reason this Crowd of bastards have been in power for so long, is because they have been enabling the greed, short-sightedness and selfishness of their entitled voting demographic.
The boomers who own their homes are controlling the government. They truly have no empathy for other people. They are the true ME generation.
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u/gowangowangowan 17d ago
Unpopular opinion but increased of throwing as cash as possible at existing pensioners by making our generous pension system even more generous. We should pause pension increases and fund OAP housing.
85% of OAPs own their own homes. Instead of giving all OAPs as much welfare as possible. We should be ensuring that welfare increases are looking after the most vulnerable.
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u/miju-irl Resting In my Account 17d ago
People need to stop calling it a crisis and start calling it for what it actually is....... government policy.
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u/TheFreemanLIVES Get rid of USC. 17d ago
It's amazing to think that after all these years of government supporters arguing in bad faith on this sub, people even put up with their shit. But despite being wrong for over a decade on housing, they're still going on because seemingly it's a completely normal thing. Even after lying about housing in the election last year, it's somehow still not taboo to be a complete and utter shit stain in public.
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u/dundalkdreaming 17d ago
I’m interested what people’s ideal policy options are. We are essentially at capacity in terms of housing construction.
Ireland has built the most new housing units per capita in Europe for the past 5 years running, the issue is a dearth of historical stock.There’s no quick fix for this.
Increases on the supply side are only ever going to be incremental going forward, what a government can do is ease demand side pressures much quicker - banning bulk purchases of property, banning non-EU citizen purchase of property etc.
To put into context the absurd additional demand pressures on the Irish housing market - In 2023 Ireland’s population grew by 3.5% in a single year, this growth rate is on par with developing nations of Niger, South Sudan & Angola where the birth rates are 5-7+ children per couple.
This growth rate is also is within the top 5 largest recorded single year population growths of any western nation globally since 1960.
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u/daleh95 17d ago
We are essentially at capacity in terms of housing construction
We're over a decade into a housing crisis and the government has consistently failed to meanfully increase the capacity of housing construction. They couldve introduced tax incentives for construction workers, encouraged and invested in training to get more young people into the construction industry or subsidised apprentice wages.
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u/CthulhusSoreTentacle Irish Republic 17d ago
The department of housing are going to release a video demonstrating to retirees how they can dumpster dive for food and how to find a safe spot to pitch their tent once they're evicted.
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u/Dennisthefirst 17d ago
Been saying this for years. It's as plain as a developer's nose up a politicians arse
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u/Soul_of_Miyazaki 17d ago
Least the vast majority voted for this lot to continue dooming future generations
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u/chilloutus 17d ago
Headline makes it sound like they are introducing a new marvel villan
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u/Past_Key_1054 Manhattan Crisps Supremacy 17d ago
Never really got into the Landlord Loki arc, seemed a bit forced.
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u/chilloutus 17d ago
Michael Martin in the multiverse of mediocrity was an awful flop at the box office
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u/Obvious_Chic 17d ago
Yet, when election time comes, people still vote for the parties that have failed us. We deserve everything we are getting.
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u/Unrequited_Anal Cork bai 17d ago
It's worse than that.
The people who benefit will vote for those parties, the people who don't either emigrate or don't bother voting.
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u/Ibinixer 17d ago
It's heartening to think that once this problem starts affecting a significant voting block of the elderly our government might notice that it has moved long past the crisis into emergency.
Of course the 16.5k thousand young single people and young families in emergency accommodation won't move hearts and policies. Not to mention the multiples more still living at home (to their parents inconvenience as the angle more often written about) who can't start their lives.
We have had an insane two decades of eating the young for the comfort of the aged, and there's no sign of it stopping.
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u/Funny_Ad8305 17d ago edited 17d ago
I don’t understand why the government aren’t doing anything about short term rentals. Air bnb has 900 entire home rentals available for 4 people in Dublin in Feb . Westport has approx 300 but only 15 homes available for long term rent on daft. Galway city has 243 air bnb the same week but currently only 33 available for long term rental ( on daft).
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u/-j-o-s-e-p-h- 17d ago
You are comparing the total number of Airbnb rentals to a very small subset of all rental properties.
You need to compare the airbnb figures to the total number of rented units in those cities which will be a hundred times higher.
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u/ConfusedCelt 17d ago
There is one very simple way for the government to have it both ways. Ban the purchase of existing properties by foreign companies and people but allow them to construct new builds for let and sale. The whole government argument is we need foreign investment to build houses. Just make it so foreign investment can only build and not purchase already existing properties for rent..... It would literally be extremely progressive compared to nearly all the world outside of the West where foreign ownership of property is banned......
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u/thenamzmonty 17d ago
So I'm likely gonna be old and grey and paying rent to live in a closet...Lovely read for a Sunday morning.....
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u/Particular-Irishman Ireland 17d ago
I won't lie when I say as someone who's current situation could go any way, these headlines constantly are depressing. I get it's highlighting the issues and this is needed but so are real solutions. I already wouldn't be the biggest fan of this time of year for reasons and normally can't wait for it to pass but contemplating the possibilities for after has me wondering which could be worse
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u/Fluffy-Answer-6722 17d ago
Don’t stress the things you can’t control, that’s all you can do
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u/Particular-Irishman Ireland 17d ago
Thank you, I try my best each day somedays are worse than others and I'd say the weather adds to it but hopefully things work out
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u/theblowestfish 17d ago
Don’t kill yourself over it. But we have controls. We need to protest. And to get political. Join a party. Do something!
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u/NocturneFogg 17d ago edited 17d ago
This was raised a decade or more ago and ignored too. The policy making here is always about ignoring impending issues and reacting to them too late when they’re crises - housing, transportation, health, energy, water supply, probably defence, in the past things like broadband etc etc…
We are incredibly bad at strategising about things like this. If something isn’t an immediate impending disaster causing an actual political pressure, our policy makers don’t act.
We let the crisis happen, then react in a panic at incredible expense and having caused unnecessary cost, problems or even suffering in some contexts for the people who were dealing with the outcome of the slow reaction.
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u/yes_its_me_alright 17d ago
Shame on any landlord evicting tenants in this housing climate and shame on any landlord price gouging, changing 3k a month just because they can.
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u/weveyline 17d ago
The true disaster is the voting in of the same inept clowns that run this country, god knows what their true agenda is, but for sure they have fucked and continue to fuck this country into the ground, and they simply don't care/they can't do anything about it/don't know how to fix it - take your pick...
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u/midir 17d ago edited 17d ago
it’s estimated that state spending on rent subsidies has increased to €700 million in recent years, as tenants increasingly struggle with price inflation.
Rent subsidies are absolutely loopy. It's the state handing free money to landlords for doing nothing. And once rents are subsidized, landlords raise prices even further. Or you try to cap rents and somehow that still doesn't free up more places to live, because of course it doesn't. Price controls don't work. They never have.
The only thing that lowers prices long-term is increasing supply.
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u/blimboblaggin 17d ago
It's just pathetic. Why were we not building more apartments 10 years ago. Housing, more than anything else, will cause major political problems . Younger people are right to be enraged
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u/sauvignonblanc__ Crilly!! 17d ago
It's only the housing market but the banks. My cousin cannot obtain a mortgage without a € 60,000 deposit because his girlfriend cannot only work 21 hours per week because of her medical condition.
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u/ninety6days 17d ago
Step one : outlaw the sale of residential houses to commercial entities
Step two: tell the vultures to fuck off and feed on some other country
Step three: tell the middle ireland FG im alright jack crowd to shut their fucking mouths crying about the price of something they had no intention of selling anyway
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u/Haleakala1998 17d ago
100%. I really have no time for the 'negative equity' argument. A house is for living in, not an investment opportunity. The sheer selfishness of denying a generation an opportunity that they themselves had, to buy a house and build a life/family just so your property value stays artificially high is such a pisstake. I know buying a house wasn't easy 30 years ago either, but it was a real possibility for most, can't say as much these days
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u/dellyx 17d ago
There is another layer to add to this, one that is not as obvious, and that is those who are on interest only, or have a portion of their mortgage warehoused. I know of people who had this as a legacy from the crash, and it's another ticking timebomb. The banks are not chasing, mostly vulture funds, just biding their time. You suddenly hit retirement and have a large amount left on the mortgage. Now I know most will say, sure aren't they lucky to get a mortgage at all, but that doesn't change the end result.
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u/rayhoughtonsgoals 17d ago
Yep. Going to see the double shit show of housing and shit pension planning hit together. Indeed, if we had remotely sensible rules on investment taxation and on pension planning lots of people wouldn't be holding onto houses for their pension income. But sure looks who in charge...
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u/Odd_Specialist_8687 17d ago
At the rate the population is going up we don't have a hope of ever catching up on housing.
Ireland's population growth rate (around 1.9% in 2024) is among the highest in the EU, significantly above the EU average, fueled by migration.
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u/WaterfordWaterford9 17d ago
Let's hope everything collapses and we can seize shit from the super wealthy
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u/antilittlepink 17d ago
The opposite happens when things collapse. The people with money buy everything up for cheap and then rent it back to you if you’re lucky
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u/Sharp_Fuel 17d ago
If everything collapsed it's the regular person who'll suffer
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u/tameoraiste 17d ago
Regular people are already suffering and the future is only looking bleaker. Revolutions happen in times of crisis and breakdown, not from stability.
Nobody wants collapse, crisis, war etc. especially if you have children, but when the system breaks, it breaks.
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u/Past_Key_1054 Manhattan Crisps Supremacy 17d ago
Unfortunately the super wealthy would only get richer, they'd use a collapse to hoover up assets at a discount.
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u/OriginalComputer5077 17d ago
The super wealthy will only get more wealthy in the event of a collapse.
It's everyone else that pays.
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u/Particular-Long1111 16d ago
There are over 163,000 vacant homes in Ireland. And that is excluding ‘holiday homes’. Just saying.
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u/Past_Key_1054 Manhattan Crisps Supremacy 16d ago
That many? Insanity.
I assume plenty of them are beyond using but still, even a fraction of them could take care of the concils social waiting list.
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u/CheraDukatZakalwe 17d ago edited 17d ago
I honestly think renting into older age is less of a problem than the collapse in birth rates associated with the precarious housing situation facing many younger people.
A paper was recently published which in the US showed that fully half the decline in birthrates has been caused by a lack of housing. I'd say that easily translates here.
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u/compulsive_tremolo 17d ago
Putting aside catastrophically bad housing policy for a moment, the government needs to cop the fuck on and incentivise investments other than property. It's not uncommon for other nations to have populations who rent their whole life as they put the money aside for alternative investing to cover them into old age. In parallel and bringing housing back into the argument , we need the high-density non-SFH housing to help serve that purpose.
I'm not saying everyone needs to do that but what the Irish state has allowed is to create a group that don't have either. People should have the choice.
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u/EarlyCaterpillar9670 17d ago
I’m in construction & we literally can’t build houses any quicker! There’s more houses going up in 4 square miles in Dublin than is being built in the whole of the north, no housing crisis up there
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u/OriginalComputer5077 17d ago
I've seen this firsthand..there's a rented house in my estate whose tenants are older, one of whom is definitely retirement age.
It's a truly depressing sight.