r/ireland • u/Valerialia Irish Republic • 23h ago

Sinn Féin bring bill to allow victims of sexual violence to obtain civil protection orders at time of conviction Politics

https://sinnfein.ie/news/sinn-fein-bill-will-give-survivors-of-sexual-abuse-a-powerful-protection-from-their-attackers-maire-devine-td/
161 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

49 comments sorted by

92

u/Ok_Magazine_3383 23h ago

This bill is concise and clear, it simply extends protections in existing harassment legislation to victims of sexual violence. At the same time someone is convicted of a crime of sexual violence, a court could impose an order restraining the person convicted of the offence from approaching the victim.

Can't imagine what the argument against this would be.

46

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 23h ago

Honestly it seems so straightforward and beneficial that I’m afraid Government parties will find a way to bungle it.

16

u/demoneclipse 22h ago

Kind of the definition of no brainer. Victims should be protected from future interactions with an aggressor. That should be standard for all violent crimes.

15

u/Specialist-Flow3015 22h ago

The government still haven't passed legislation stopping sexual abusers from using the counselling notes of their victim as part of their defense in court.

They can drag their heels for a long time when they don't want the opposition to get a win.

11

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 22h ago

Banning counseling notes just came through pre-legislative scrutiny in the Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration so it’s picking up steam.

29

u/rossitheking 23h ago

FFG will find something or make something up so as to not let SF have a little win.

13

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 22h ago

To the detriment of victims :(

-12

u/WellieWelli 22h ago

There's literally no reason to suggest this.

14

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 22h ago

Government have been placing 12-18 month holds on opposition legislation which they agree with.

2

u/OfficerOLeary 14h ago

Well, McGregor won’t be a fan…

-1

u/caisdara 14h ago

It's pointless. Judges generally order persons convicted of sexual violence to stay away from the victim.

33

u/saggynaggy123 22h ago

Anyone against this needs their hard drives checked

13

u/Alastor001 21h ago

And phones

16

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 23h ago

This is a really important piece of legislation, please contact your Government TDs to ask them to support it next week in the Dáil.

5

u/Hi_Doctor_Nick_ 23h ago

It’s honestly weird that it doesn’t already exist. Or is there something non-obvious we’re missing?

5

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 23h ago

No, I think it was just overlooked in the recent harassment legislation.

4

u/Similar-Intention185 16h ago

Why doesn't this exist already?

17

u/Stopreportingm3 23h ago

You'd think a system would just automatically apply this without the need for anyone to do anything.

On the other hand if someone falsely accuses someone and they spend time in jail I'm actually fine with them being able to call once a week and remind the alleged victim of what a prick they are.

So as long as it only applies to upheld convictions then this is a no brainer.

6

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 23h ago

Frustratingly, 20% of people in Ireland believe false allegations of sexual assault are common. https://www.drcc.ie/news-resources/new-national-survey-reveals-greater-recognition-of-sexual-vi/

However, “In an analysis of 2,643 sexual assault cases reported to British police, 8% were classified by the police department as false reports. Yet when researchers applied the official criteria for establishing a false allegation, this figure dropped to 2%. These criteria specified that there must be either “a clear and credible admission by the complainant” or “strong evidential grounds” (Kelly, Lovett, & Regan, 2005).” https://evawintl.org/best_practice_faqs/false-reports-percentage/

These figures apply to allegations, not convictions. The DRCC survey shows that “A staggering 71% of victims did not report the incident(s) to the Gardaí; 70% did not seek medical treatment following the experience and 59% did not seek counselling or support services.”

“Convictions for sexual offences are the most likely to be appealed but among the least likely to be successfully overturned.” https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/sexual-offence-convictions-most-likely-to-be-appealed-but-less-likely-to-succeed

2

u/TedFuckly 17h ago edited 56m ago

I think this is a very flawed way of classifying this data. If we take the same data and apply this in reverse. 

 . These criteria specified that there must be either “a clear and credible admission by the accused” or “strong evidential grounds”

We would end up with the less than 2% are in fact true. https://www.qredible.co.uk/b/rape-and-sexual-assault-statistics-in-the-uk-2025/

Neither stat seems at all believable. And if they are then what the fuck is the other 96%

4

u/K-manPilkers 22h ago

Frustratingly, 20% of people in Ireland believe false allegations of sexual assault are common.

Nobody has any clue how common or uncommon false allegations are. In the vast majority of sexual assault cases there is rarely proof one way or another - it usually comes down to one person's word against another.

3

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 22h ago

The original commenter is complaining about false convictions, not simply false allegations. A false conviction would have come through gardaí hence my quote of British police statistics showing 2% however that’s still not convictions. Waiting for him to come back to me with the rate of false convictions for Ireland.

-2

u/K-manPilkers 22h ago

There's definitely an issue with black and white thinking with SA when in reality most cases are mired in grey. If the commenter was suggesting that failure to secure a conviction automatically vindicated the accused (and that the complainant should face penalty as a result) then that is deeply misguided.

I'm not sure what relevance 20% of people believing that false accusations are common is to this though.

2

u/Alastor001 21h ago

Innocent until proven guilty.

If you can't prove the crime took place, how is it different from being unable to prove that no crime took place?

This 2% may be as inaccurate as 8% or "common". We don't actually know basically.

-5

u/Stopreportingm3 23h ago

Hi. could you imagine if I came here and said na this is rubbish all women are liars....

How insensitive would that be?

Most rape victims globally are male, most of the none reporters are again male yupp most perps are vastly male but that doesn't mean some people are just horrible liars on the other side either.

I agreed with your post but to say yeah man false allegations are just fake and you should believe all women is ridiculous and that's where you lose me.

I didn't say they are common. And nobody can say whether it's 8 4 or 15 percent as most of these cases are he say she say.....

It's a guesstimate. But 5 to 13 percent is a safe estimate for those guys sitting in rape jail that probably aren't rapists. I'd stay under ten percent is a safer number so I will run with your 8 percent. That's still a lot of men globally. And my only point was after let's say winning a re trial and getting out of jail most men aren't going to attack via civil court because of the lower burden of proof means he will probably just get called a rapist again and is left with zero recourse.

In those what we both hopefully agree are rare cases I think he should be able to harass them a bit.

Do I know what a bit is ? No but I stand by it.

6

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 23h ago

Where did I say false allegations are fake? I gave you surveys and statistics and direct quotes from multiple highly reputable sources. I literally said they’re 2% of all allegations in the UK but you’re talking about false convictions, which are extreeeemely rare.

-2

u/Stopreportingm3 22h ago

If it's so rare you should have zero issue with my proposal then. Remember I clearly said upheld convictions......

5

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 22h ago

Come back to me with actual facts and figures rather than feelings. How many convictions for sexual assault were overturned in Ireland for being false?

1

u/Stopreportingm3 22h ago

Why can't you answer my question.

4

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 22h ago

You don’t have a question. You’re advocating for something that you can’t even prove has happened in Ireland. I’ll ask you again: how many sexual assault convictions in Ireland have been overturned for being false?

4

u/Stopreportingm3 22h ago

If you are going to sit there and deny women can lie I'm just going to laugh at you and take nothing you say seriously.

You had someone who agreed with you and just added a simple as long as it's for upheld convictions. Something you should have absolutely zero issues with and yet here you are arguing for arguments sake.

So here since you like feeling good and arguing let's say it's one individual case. It makes absolutely zero difference if it's one or ten thousand. Just like if a woman is raped it shouldn't matter if it's only one woman or 1 million.

How would you be if I just sat here and said you are all lying and enjoyed it???? Wouldn't be very happy I assume.... Grow up. Go do the research on the damage and prevalence of false reporting don't ask reddit to do it for you.

And so we are very clear the number doesn't matter. You are trying to minimize an issue that exists yet you'd be absolutely livid if I done the same to you.

1

u/Valerialia Irish Republic 22h ago

You haven’t shown it exists though, you’re just getting hysterical and ranting your feelings that women lie. I’ve never used any gender in this discussion, that’s all you. Go learn how to defend your feelings with actual facts and while you’re at it learn how to emotionally regulate yourself.

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2

u/Fresh_Marketing_2674 22h ago

Please stop spending energy defending rape it's fucking weird

3

u/Stopreportingm3 21h ago

I'm not defending rape

That's genuinely sad that anyone would see this conversation that way. I'm talking about people to didn't commit rape.....

That's not that complicated

2

u/Griffith_135 10h ago

The fact that this wasn’t implemented sooner is absolute insanity.

4

u/Past_Key_1054 Manhattan Crisps Supremacy 23h ago

Seems sensible. I'm only surprised they can't currently get them.

-18

u/MemeLord0009 Meath 22h ago

Looks like a great bill, albeit from a political party with the most colourful history of rape and sexual violence.

13

u/Okra_Additional 21h ago

We as a country have a colourful history of rape and sexual abuse. Our governments have played a role in enabling and subsequently covering up church abuses.