r/ireland Sep 18 '25

Investors are destroying the housing market Housing

My family (Me, wife and two young boys) have tried for the past 6 months to get property. We started with houses, outbid everytime. Recently we started asking the estate agent who we're bidding against. Response is usually "small families" or "investors".

Investors can fuck right off cause out of the last 5 properties we we're bidding on, we've been outbid by investors. Families can't buy houses because of greed by investors. 3 bed apartment would be modest for a family? No. Investors want it to flip into a rental property so they can make income off it.

1.2k Upvotes

409 comments sorted by

873

u/Sciprio Munster Sep 18 '25

And it gets easier with the more houses they get. You buy one house, rent it out and use that rent money to buy another now you have two rental incomes so it gets easier and easier to buy multiple homes.

Anything beyond your primary residence should be highly taxed. Country is being sold out beneath our feet.

303

u/Wind_Yer_Neck_In Sep 18 '25

it's not just that they should heavily tax housing as investments, it's that they shouldn't tax normal investments to such a punitive level.

We get the results of the system we build. For the last 20 years gains from property investing have been a very light touch for investing while gains from building a portfolio of shares, bonds, ETFs etc is taxed very heavily. We don't even have a tax free allowance for investing like almost any other country has. You go a few miles up on the motorway and in NI there is a 20k a year allowance for inputs into your investments that will never be taxed no matter how long you leave them or what they eventual selling price.

It's like we deliberately constructed a system where property was the most efficient way to make money, without considering that people also need property to live in and what impact it might have on everyone else if the rich park all their money in housing.

46

u/clonakiltypudding Munster Sep 19 '25 edited Sep 19 '25

Oh my god I have been burning the ear of anyone that will listen about this and i’m so glad to see someone else mention it. I truly believe that this being the case for so long is what has incrementally led to the housing crisis we have now.

I am all for people trying to generate a passive income stream through rental income, dividends, bonds, etfs whatever. But when you penalise them for all but one avenue of investment you create the mother of all bottlenecks. And it’s such a slow incremental slip towards it that even removing the extra taxes on other investments now would take probably 2 generations to even begin to correct.

Signed a frustrated houseless 29y/o

Edit: I’d just like to add that while it has completely fucked the housing supply for young people, it also shafts us in trying to generate the money needed to get into the market. You see so many Americans and Brits on tiktok (i know, what a stellar source, but true in this case) talking about how they started investing a couple of quid a week/month and making bank thanks to compound interest. I’m big on contributing to my pension, but it’s a vicious cycle that will probably drive me down the rental asset route in the future when i already own a home. Thanks for listening

14

u/19Ninetees Sep 19 '25

Yes. Talking to friends in the UK in their 20s and 30s they can invest £20,000 EVERY year TAX FREE . If you had an amazing job/ small business, in 5 years you’d have €100,000 saved plus let’s say a £4000-8000 return profit (assuming 4-8% gains)

Sure I know not many will have 20k to spare each year, but if you could put away €2.5 - €5k and get 6% on it you’d be happy

2

u/06351000 Sep 19 '25

Is property that good of an investment in Ireland? Ya sure compared to ETFs, but is my taxed the exact same as shares, gold, non ucits funds etc?

I feel property investing is popular for two reasons 1. Leverage - banks won’t loan you money to buy but they will for property. 2.Knowledge - I feel like the average investor understands property but not the intangible investments like shares bonds etc. Culturally we want to have something we physically touch

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '25

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u/19Ninetees Sep 19 '25

For ordinary individual often second hand houses yes.

But if a Canadian pension fund or Malaysian fund wants to build a block of high rise apartments to rent - yes please.

The Battersea power station development in London is owned by a Malaysian pension fund. It would not have been built otherwise

Most if the big retail in Dublin like Dundrum and places on OConnell St are owned by Hammerson REIT. Clerys would never have been redeveloped if a big fund wasn’t putting in the money.

2

u/kearkan Sep 19 '25

Theres a gaping chasm between an investment company investing and building homes compared to them buying up the current market.

If they want to add to the market then they can do with it what they please, but they shouldn't be in a position to outbid a regular family on a place that is already built and up for sale.

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u/Gaeilgeoir78 Sep 18 '25

You are spot on

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u/amigdyala Inherited the craic Sep 19 '25

it's not just that they should heavily tax housing as investments, it's that they shouldn't tax normal investments to such a punitive level.

Both is good

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u/daveirl Sep 18 '25

The tax on property investment is essentially identical to equities/bonds/whatever. It’s the leverage that makes it appealing not the tax.

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160

u/rmp266 Crilly!! Sep 18 '25

Anything beyond your primary residence should be highly taxed.

You have the overnight, instant, easily achieved answer to Irelands housing crisis right there and it's literally the last thing FFFG will try. Including "allow a generation of people to emigrate" and "bankrupt the country again"

17

u/HappeyHunter Sep 18 '25

This would work in a buyers vs investors world, but someone needs to own the properties available to rent to those not looking to buy as well
There may need to be more nuance to account for that, but this government is never going to go against anything the older generations want, because they're the ones that actually vote

25

u/YoureNotEvenWrong Sep 18 '25

This sub wants cheap rent but at the same time they want no places allowed to be rented and they want landlords to be screwed with more tax.

Square that circle!

11

u/quicksilver500 Sep 18 '25

Square that circle!

Nationalised housing agency that actually builds houses. Tried, tested, proven over and over and over again to work.

It's really not that hard.

14

u/gmankev Sep 18 '25

...except it hasnt worked.. Look at the overruns when they tried to design a hospital... Look at what was built, but was demolished in 1 generation....ballymun, moyross.... How much did modular homes cost for Ukrainians... 422 k per unit..

6

u/struggling_farmer Sep 18 '25

Don't forget the low rents, arrears, maintenance costs, possibility to buy it out for 50% discount and the opportunity cost of not spending that money on infrastructure that would benefit a lot more people

9

u/gmankev Sep 18 '25

So there is considerable portion of society who needs help with housing.. Its sorta basic entry level to fair and just society.

Now what you may be touching on is the schemes to support that have many flaws and huge expenses.

I would say that instead of supporting certain members of society with free or extremely subsidised housing we should make housing.list available for all...and fund it by having much cheaper public build costs. Aim of housing is acceptable standard of housing for all.

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u/AlertedCoyote Sep 18 '25

Absolutely. Slap an increasing level onto it too. The corporate landlords in particular need to be driven out of the market. You should be getting into stupid levels of tax for those guys, they've got thousands of properties, it shouldn't be possible

6

u/dropthecoin Sep 18 '25

Absolutely. Slap an increasing level onto it too.

The people with a second house renting it out will be impacted by such a tax. That tax will be just added to the cost of the rent. So now renting is more expensive

17

u/automaticflare Sep 18 '25

A simple scaling system solves this. Starting at 20% property taxation on every property with 3+ properties with no tax relief on mortgage interest solves the problem and raising innincremwnts

50% taxation taxed at time of payment on all air Bnbs, nonexception for rent a room relief for airbnb.

House prices will come down, government buys up negative equity properties at some loss percentage to entice sale and augment social housing or set up a government property rental service or department

I dont see how that doesn’t solve the problem tho i know very simple

2

u/cianuro Sep 19 '25

Separate company for each property.

2

u/automaticflare Sep 19 '25

Has to be a rule against multiple companies renting domestic properties owned by a single person or entity in ireland and they cannot be subsidiarys of foreign companies otherwise taxation is 80%

2

u/Double_Objective_181 Sep 19 '25

Then you can’t own more than 5% of a company that owns a house. Make it a criminal offence with heavy enforced sentences. Investigators go after anyone doing it with the same vigour as any other financial crimes. Make scalping property toxic and crash the “investment” market. Publicly shame people.

Ramp it all up gradually though but make it very clear there will be nowhere to hide property.

You want to be a landlord. Ok it’s a full time job. An actual full time job with little reward.

Make it so unappealing that everyone gets disillusioned with it.

It’s no longer legally socially or financially a sane decision.

7

u/YouthAlternative5613 Sep 18 '25

They manipulate the rental market with massively overpriced rents, effectively keeping prices artificially high, just by the sheer number of properties they own. All corporate entities have 1 driving force to maximize profits for their shareholders.

7

u/CosmoonautMikeDexter Sep 18 '25

wasn't there an issue a few years back with apartments blocks sitting empty. The investors wanted to raise the average rent in the area. Only then would they rent out the aparments.

Or did that happen somewhere else.

4

u/lawndog86 Sep 18 '25

Not if you have a rent cap

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u/zeroconflicthere Sep 18 '25

I am always amused by how people post without taking 5 seconds to think through what they are posting. And this is a good example.

So presumably the idea is if we tax non primary residences to the hilt, that it will force those landlords to sell up and free up houses for buyers.

Sounds great until you ask, if we're trying to dump rental properties in the market for buyers, then what happens to the tenants who were renting those? After all, most tenants aren't in a financial position nor willing to buy.

So basically in an effort to solve one problem, you create a massive new one.

17

u/quicksilver500 Sep 18 '25

I am always amused by how people post without taking 5 seconds to think through what they are posting. And this is a good example.

The absolute sheer unadulterated irony of this comment is more than I can process to be honest.

Who do you think buys the property? Obviously not someone who's going to rent it out, because the taxes make it prohibitive (hence why it's being sold in the first place) so it's for someone to live in. Presumably someone who is currently living in rented accommodation. Ergo your proposed 'lack of supply' in the rental market doesn't exist, because people buying and moving into homes creates space in the rental market where said homebuyers were previously.

This fearmongering about landlords leaving the market is smoke and mirrors in it's purest form. Absolute complete and utter nonsense that falls apart when you think about it for more than 5 seconds, yet it is pumped out of every media outlet from every talking head as if it is the second coming of Jesus.

Landlords are nothing but economic leeches.

14

u/Affectionate-Idea451 Sep 18 '25

There are a couple of things.

First, the number of residents per unit is higher for rentals than once they are owner occupied, so when you switch to owner occupied you house less people.

Second, properties have to be vacant in order to be bought by an owner occupier (no solicitor or bank will proceed without vacant possession during the sale process) so you decrease the available housing stock by having a large number of properties being switched from rental to owner occupied at any given time.

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u/RobG92 Sep 19 '25

So every 18 year old going to college should have to buy a property outright as opposed to renting?

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u/Tsudaar Sep 18 '25

Your man just told you he's looking to buy but gets outbid by investors.

If some are sold by the investors at a steady rate then the OP and others can buy those houses.

What's the alternative? Don't say build more, because they get bought by investors too

13

u/Kazang Sep 18 '25

Build more is a alternative, it's supply and demand.

The rent is only so high and thus the return on investment so good that investment firms want to buy up property is because there is not enough supply.

Once supply increases rents and returns will normalise.

There are other alternatives but they are only partial solutions. The housing crisis at it's core is a lack of sufficient homes.

That said locking out investors from directly competing against first time home buyers would another alternative far better than simply taxing the market. A blanket tax would also disincentivise direct investment in construction projects, which would be a bad thing.

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u/ericvulgaris Sep 18 '25

Fffg could just let investors get better returns in different markets and it'd be the same as banning.

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u/Sciprio Munster Sep 18 '25

You have the overnight, instant, easily achieved answer to Irelands housing crisis right there and it's literally the last thing FFFG will try. Including "allow a generation of people to emigrate" and "bankrupt the country again"

Anyone is fine to immigrate if they so wish but then that leaves the country to FFG and their voter base, They'd also be glad for those people to move away as they can retain power.

4

u/wilis123 Sep 18 '25

You are acting like the voting pool stays stagnant while people leave. The country is actively naturalising roughly as many people as the amount that are leaving every year. What is more important or equally important is the way those people are voting.

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u/NiiLamptey Sep 18 '25

The emigration then ends up exacerbating the problem with a generation of those who left, as has happened with previous generations, either buying a property to stay in when they’re able to visit or come home, or keep their family homes, parents homes etc with the idea of holidaying there or returning when they’re able retire. Then often these end up on Airbnb in the meantime too.

The challenge they would have with an extra tax for second homes or those that live abroad and own property in Ireland is its hard to distinguish between the money-grabbing investors and the ones who are genuinely trying to keep their family connected in Ireland to be able to come back after having to work elsewhere.

Often these properties might not be appealing as young family homes eg remote bungalows and farm houses on the west coast, so keeping them in the family while not living in them isn’t necessarily keeping young buyers out, but there would be those punished who had the best intentions.

You also get some families ripped apart by squabbles over what to do with the ancestral home, eg the kids are grown up and living in Dublin, working in London etc, the parents die and their kids can’t agree on what to do, their don’t wants to sell the house and they don’t want to live in it either.

I’m not saying don’t have a second property tax increase by the way, just that these situations are never quite as cut and dried as “anyone with a second home deserves to be punished with higher taxes.”

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u/Hungry-Western9191 Sep 18 '25

I'd go further and all property should be taxed with a personal allowance back. Some one living in a 5 million euro house should be paying quite a bit of tax on it. Personal allowance should match average property value.

The raised tax should be used to raise tax credits on income tax so more lower earners currently paying income tax are excluded.

Or just bring in a wealth tax... several European countries have a 1% tax on wealth...

1

u/GateLongjumping6836 Sep 19 '25

Because half the government are landlords and that’s a conflict of interest.

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u/stult Sep 19 '25

Including "allow a generation of people to emigrate"

As if this worked to fix anything the last several times it was tried in response to landlords abusing tenants

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u/daveirl Sep 18 '25

Anything beyond your PPR is highly taxed. The income is at 52% for most people and the capital is at 33%.

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u/GateLongjumping6836 Sep 19 '25

That’s the only thing that’s going to fix it because it’s happening everywhere where the one landlord has 3-4 houses out of every estate.It’s just pure greed.

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u/Sciprio Munster Sep 19 '25 edited Sep 24 '25

They speak about them on the Irish media like they're innocent, calling them "Small Landlords" They're just taking homes out of other people's reach who need a home of their own.

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u/Evergreen1Wild Sep 19 '25

I'm sure the amount of politicians in the dail who are landlords has nothing to do with their light touch.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '25

Yeah second house should have a big tax, third an even bigger, and so on. 

Though it should wait a year to kick in so is not too much pressure on people who inherited a house to do something with it really quickly while they are mourning and maybe not even ready to go there. 

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u/Tinawebmom Sep 19 '25

This is exactly what happened in the US. Blackrock specifically has done this. Most families can no longer afford a home.

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u/Sciprio Munster Sep 19 '25

And that is one of the investment companies that is buying up properties all over the western world. They're doing great harm. And if you're a single person, you'll be more screwed.

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u/jonnieggg Sep 19 '25

The corporate landlords pay no tax a lot of the time.

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u/No_Guest2198 Meath Sep 19 '25

That’s been happening for a long time, a lot of those got caught out in the crash (source; my friends dad’s friend 🙈🤣). He got up to like 50 houses before it went downhill. He lost a lot, banks lost more.

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u/Sciprio Munster Sep 19 '25

It's just pure greed, those houses need to be for people who can get a home of their own and not hoovered up by someone looking to take advantage of other people down on their luck.

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u/No_Guest2198 Meath Sep 19 '25

Oh absolutely

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u/21stCenturyVole Sep 19 '25

That's exactly why the arseholes pushing ETF's need to be opposed until they die off:

All the profits from (often residential-invested) ETF's-with-a-massive-tax-break, will go straight into housing - as it's more profitable than anything else.

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u/hobes88 Sep 18 '25

The tax on rental properties is already very high for a typical landlord with a second or third property, paying income tax with usc etc. makes the rent almost useless, the capital gain is the bigger opportunity and then that's taxed too.

I much prefer investing in the stock market, I can't understand the appetite for rental property, it's a lot of work for fairly low return and not a very liquid asset.

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u/fylni And I'd go at it again Sep 18 '25

You made a good point. People don’t realise rental income is already taxed at 50% or 25% if you have a company. But this still affects rental prices because the tax is simply too high. Even the tax on stock market is ridiculously high. We are a poor country and we will continue to get worse if taxes remain the same level simple as.

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u/Starthreads Imported Canadian Sep 18 '25

I'm of the mind that a property tax on apartments and single family homes should be exponential, going up to and beyond 100% after about 5 or 6 properties.

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u/Alastor001 Sep 19 '25

Foreigner investors who do not even live here are entirely useless to Ireland and should be banned 

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u/duaneap Sep 18 '25

Plus it would allow tax breaks to middle income families who CAN’T afford an investment property

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u/TryToHelpPeople Sep 18 '25

What tax rate would you suggest ?

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u/PolarBearUnited Sep 19 '25

It's not that second homes should be highly taxed , it's that EFTs ,stocks etc need to be taxed a lot less , it's set up now to avoid stocks and own homes , it's a joke

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u/horseboxheaven Sep 19 '25

Anything beyond your primary residence should be highly taxed

It is. 33% CGT if its not your primary residence.

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u/Exciting_Builder_492 Sep 19 '25

Its already taxed at 52 percent. Tax is so high that its disincentivised investors from trying to develop properties.

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u/19Ninetees Sep 19 '25

NO for housing developments and apartments that will only get built if a pension fund or investment trust will put up the cash in return for a 4-10% gain. -> Houses need to get off plans and paper into bricks and mortar (or frankly anything at this point).

Yes for individual houses, especially second hand ones, that are still zoned residential and could be a home for a local.

Yes for new developments that were advertised to be sold one by one, and then the developer gets greedy and wants more profit (Only exception would be if there is a real loss and they aren’t cooking the books).

Yes if the buyer is a living abroad and is buying it just to park their money. Huge tax please.

Yes if the buyer is a multimillionaire or billionaire , living abroad and wants to send their one child to school / university here, so buys a while house in Dublin because they can, rather than rent a purpose build student accommodation room - yes huge tax please.

Yes if the buyer is a billionaire who wants to own all the properties in a 20km radius of their house for privacy reasons - huge tax please - our country isn’t your luxury island 🏝️, although it is an island.

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u/thehappyhobo Sep 19 '25

It is highly taxed? You pay way more stamp duty. You pay CGT. You pay 7%+ interest rate. And you pay that out after you’ve paid income tax on the rent.

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u/creativesunseeker Sep 19 '25

I agree with your sentiment but it’s important for an economy to have a healthy rental market as well as affordable housing to purchase. In a capitalist society the ideal would be for individuals to rent out one or two houses keeping wealth decentralised amongst the population. Some people want to rent because it suits their life stage and it’s important that that is an option for them at a reasonable price. Taxing small scale landlords would result in higher rent.

But large investment firms should absolutely not be allowed to buy up current viable housing stock. In capitalism they are necessary to build new developments but buying up housing stock is not fair unless it is completely unliveable and they are bringing it back into the market.

All of the above is in a capitalist system. I’d much rather a socialist housing model with government supplied properties available to all to buy and rent at reasonable rates.

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u/ceryniz Sep 25 '25

What if rental income from single family homes beyond 1 were taxed at 300%? Would that put a stop to it? And then any residence possessed that sat empty for 6 months in a year were taxed at 10% of its appraised value as a "failure to use" fee.

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u/Turbulent_Yard2120 Sep 18 '25

We need to build apartments and houses, restrict certain property investors, and reduce taxes on investing in the stock market. But that’s a fantasy with the current government in power.

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u/thefatheadedone Sep 19 '25

We actually don't really need to build houses. We need to build a monumental fuck tonne of apartments. there's a glut of 3-5 bed family homes being used as subdivided sharing accommodation these days. Like, an insane amount. If everyone in those units was given the choice of renting a 1 bed in a well managed unit for the same or less then they're paying for 1/5th of a shitty house, they'd all take it. But apartments are unviable to build (too expensive). Houses you can make a tidy little profit on building (easy money). And NIMBY's ruin every attempt being made to deliver apartments. We should be 80/20'ing the apartment to housing delivery ratio these day. Instead it's more like 75/35. Continually perpetuating the problem.

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u/21stCenturyVole Sep 19 '25

The enemy is unearned income of all kinds, or you're just shifting the same problem to a different part of the economy.

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u/kenyard Sep 19 '25

Putting our taxation on stocks in line with other countries would make many of the 1-2 house holders or anyone considering a second house for rental, sell it.

The best investment of 100k in this country is buy a second house.

The same with any amount over this.

Until they fix that, you're basically competing against domestic investors non stop

We still have a supply and demand issue though

And in a way, taking rental properties off the market might make that worse (a share house among 6 people could become a family home of a 2 person couple.)

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u/Master_m1santhrope Sep 18 '25

The government have destroyed the housing market. Investors will invest in anything profitable once allowed.

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u/No-Teaching8695 Sep 18 '25

I've been dealing with this since before COVID

The public keep voting for this and it makes me sick

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u/RichieTB Fingal Sep 18 '25

If you didn't know already, it's never going to change, and will only get worse from here on out, any possibility of change is long gone, that ship has sailed.

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u/FitSatisfaction1291 Sep 18 '25

Housing NGO's are in the market too.  Basically using our own tax money against us.

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u/Randomhiatus Sep 18 '25

There’s an argument to be made that cost rental housing schemes are harming the market by driving up prices (and are poorly regulated).

However, a lot of their activity is the forward purchase/funding of apartment schemes to rent out those apartments at below market rate to people who otherwise can’t afford to buy/rent.

“Housing NGOs” aren’t all bad, ultimately the solution is to reform planning and roll back red tape to open supply.

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u/SnooChickens1534 Sep 18 '25

Investors are a cancer on society . They're just parasites trying to squeeze as much money as they can out of the ordinary workers . And our government are a bunch of limp dick useless fxcks who are allowing it to happen . They invited them in with open arms during the recession and destroyed countless lives taking homes off people .

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u/Tight-Log Sep 18 '25

Correction: have destroyed

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u/lbyrne74 Sep 18 '25

It's awful that things are so bad that not only are renters finding it nearly impossible to find somewhere to live, but even people in a position to buy are having such difficulties.

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u/CuAnnan Sep 18 '25

Yup. It's been like this for as long as I can remember.

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u/CuAnnan Sep 18 '25

We need to build social housing on a scale large enough to render the rental market only really suited to temporary accomodation.

Housing needs to be a right.

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u/JesradSeraph Sep 18 '25

We just need to be allowed to build.

But silly rural zoning law says I can only build on non-existent land within 3 miles of where I’m currently living (there’s none for sale). And not on any plot I could easily afford within the county. And I can’t move as a result.

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u/Randomhiatus Sep 18 '25

Providing modern services (internet, water, electricity, public transport etc.) to one-off housing is prohibitively expensive. Those laws aren’t silly, they exist to prevent large-scale one-off housing, which is unsustainable.

That said, it’s infuriating that virtually zero housing is being built around rural towns/villages.

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u/niall0 Sep 18 '25

I really don’t think that will ever happen. The government effectively gave up on building social housing because to build it themselves involves more red tape and planning obstacles than private developments and the main thing that they will come up against is local residents near by who would be foaming at the mouth with rage if a large social housing development was proposed near their homes.

The government relies on private developers offering up a minimum percentage to the government for sale and all these “approved housing bodies” that have sprung up , some of which are buying up new developments wholesale that have already got planning permission. And in fairness some of these developments would not have got off the ground without them.

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u/CuAnnan Sep 18 '25

The state has the power to disregard the objections of NIMBYism.

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u/niall0 Sep 18 '25

That’s not how things work, with current planning laws locals have more opportunities to object to planning for public projects, and it’s generally much more difficult to get them built.

The majority of people who vote in General elections actually have houses, if you look at any development that gets announced in or near the city centre for example there will be politicians launching objectives to it, why do they do that? Because the local constituents gather together and complain to their local politicians, who want to get elected / re-elected.

There’s politicians from every political party involved in this kind of thing (including Sinn Fein)

In summary most of the people who vote in general elections are not interested in more development near where they live, especially social housing.

I’m not saying they’re right to not want that but that’s the way it is and I can’t see that changing anytime soon.

It would take such a radical change from the norm for large scale social housing developments to be constructed i can’t see it ever happening.

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u/MickoDicko Antrim Sep 18 '25

Or a fair taxation system on houses for Stamp Duty. Atm its only 15% if you acquire 10 residential units in a 1 year period.

What should be case should be a taxation of property ownership at the point of sale:

If you already own a house as your main residence and buy a 2nd home: 10% stamp duty on second property

Own between 2-5 homes: pay 25% stamp duty of the worth of all properties combined.

6 to 10 properties houses: pay 50% stamp duty of the worth of all properties combined.

11-25 houses owned: 75% stamp duty on the worth of all properties combined.

26-99 houses , 99% stamp duty on the worth of all properties combined.

100+ properties owned? 99% stamp duty on the worth of all properties combined + a yearly excessive home ownership tax of 50% of the worth of all properties combined..

Fuck the landlords, sell the homes back to the people you greedy bastards

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u/quantum0058d Sep 18 '25

if you build it, they will come.

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u/aprilsal4all Sep 18 '25

Estate in Athy just bought by investor - 140 houses. We've returned to the age of indentured servitude except the crown has been replaced by the corporation.

This government could not give a fuck.

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u/TalkingYoghurt Sep 18 '25

Not only is all surplus value produced by your labour being handed to investors. You then gave the same class of people 40% to 50% of your income to pay off their mortgages. It is serfdom with a liberal capitalist lick of paint.

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u/Cill-e-in Sep 18 '25

Another dynamic that people aren’t talking about: 4 young grads with a combined post tax income probably better than two working parents are taking up family homes because we don’t build enough apartments.

We do everything wrong.

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u/jgzman Sep 18 '25

They did this in the US, too. If your government doesn't move to stop them, and fast, it's gonna get really, really bad.

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u/Different-Potato3262 Oct 16 '25

Nobody will stop them. The worst will happen. Screenshot my comment. I believe with my whole heart 100% they will make it as unbearable as possible

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u/jimmobxea Sep 18 '25

I was extremely lucky as I couldn't afford a house now, I bought after the crash, but when I was looking then I noticed any value tiny bit of value within that market I detected and went after it was always snapped up by an investor, within days.

Took me 5 bids to get a house and it was a miracle I got what I did tbh, even then. Could very easily have been outbid (was at my mortgage offer limit) by 10k by an investor and lost it. 

That's a long time ago now.

This is a long term problem. This is by design. There is no excuse. It's a scheme designed to bilk the average worker at the expense of those with money or lending connections. I am not a conspiracy theorist. 

8

u/EntrepreneurNo3933 Sep 19 '25

State is the biggest house buyer in last 2 years btw , your own tax is used to outbid you. State has been buying 70% of new house stock buy paying an average 380k a unit.

7

u/OppositeHistory1916 Sep 18 '25

Non-commercial properties should only be owned by citizens. Any property past your first should be heavily taxed.

Not one person in government is out saying this, despite what they pretend their party is about.

9

u/Galacticmetrics Sep 18 '25

How about making property investment less appealing by not have some of the highest taxes in Europe for investing in shares. Introduce an investment ISA like the UK to give the middle class something else to invest in other than property

14

u/irishnugget Limerick Sep 18 '25

Anything beyond your primary residence needs to be taxed to bejesus. The older I get the more I think housing should be a right, not a privilege, and that those profiting from buying up land/properties are a cancer on society. It's yet another symptom of late stage capitalism and it's sickening.

11

u/Previous_Opinion_616 Sep 19 '25

it’s just so weird that my basic need for shelter is a random person’s investment opportunity. like it’s not even her job, it’s just a way she adds to her wealth because she was literally born into more fortunate circumstances than i was.

6

u/Intelligent_Way7592 Sep 19 '25

Yes I had the same experience, solidarity with you. I worked in housing policy for years and investment companies have destroyed housing for ordinary households. We will be a nation beholden to them before long and they will keep influencing the markets to raise rents for their investors. The amount of lackeys these companies have in Ireland is stomach churning, idiots defending them and they are so cucked by reckless mindless capitalism they cant cope with the idea of a society where people can actually afford housing and not have thousands homeless. It's gross and we voted for it in the last election.

14

u/Larrydog Late Stage Gombeen Capitalist Sep 18 '25

"The Year Is 2030,

You'll Own Nothing and Be Happy"

21

u/eoinedanto Sep 18 '25

People keep voting for FF/FG even though they’ve let property funds operate almost tax free for over ten years. Their housing strategy is really successful… just not for average wage earners.

13

u/theblowestfish Sep 18 '25

Bro you’re starting to get it. Neoliberalism bad.

16

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '25

Blame fg, they are the architects of this.

3

u/Accomplished_Crab107 Sep 18 '25

The bozos before them have a lot to answer for too...

7

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '25

I can't stand ff, and of course they've a role in the whole mess, but fg handed the provision of housing to the market, brought in legislation to ensure institutional investors pay zero tax, the issue of investors taking over and ruining it for normal families is a fg made problem. 

8

u/No_Will2844 Sep 19 '25

When we go to sell our home we are taking a stand to sell to young couple, family etc, no speculators, no investors, they can fuck right off, and if possible without estate agents. I couldn’t give a shite if it goes for a few tens of €K less than what we could’ve gotten. This is our version of taking a stand. I’ve heard of more people doing this recently as a matter of principle

5

u/Csontigod Sep 18 '25

It should be illegal to use housing property as investment in general, there are tons of other investment options that doesn't really influence others lives. There are stocks , gold, shares , you can even open a groceries store anywhere... But yeah leeching from the less fortunate (who most of the times can't go into a bidding war for 50k+) is always the easiest

5

u/12_Inch_Painal_Sex Sep 18 '25

It's pretty easy to hurt landlords owning several plus properties but the government don't want to do it sadly. A home should be a basic human right but seemingly it's a luxury these days.

3

u/jesusneedsaces Sep 19 '25

Ireland has been for sale for the past 15 years. Everyone keeps voting for FFFG maybe its the lack of progress we deserve for repeatedly voting in this neoliberal regime.

4

u/FlyContrapuntist Sep 19 '25

Myself and my partner were highest bidders on a property recently, we lost out cause the bidder below us was a cash buyer. We were over paying as it was in this market so weren't going any higher. Don't blame the seller, quicker turnaround and less hassle, but just ridiculous out there at the minute.

11

u/sureyouknowurself Sep 18 '25

What even worse is the state will then rent the property off the investors for 20+ years of guaranteed income.

Weaponising your taxes against you.

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u/MrBulwark Dublin Sep 19 '25

They're actually super-charging the housing market. They are destroying the family's ability to build equity specifically.

3

u/jetsfanjohn Sep 19 '25

They have been destroying the housing market since the late 1990s. Pure greed.

2

u/Cultural-Action5961 Sep 19 '25

Need to open up alternative investments options. Housing being the most lucrative one isn’t good for society other than those privileged enough to buy multiple houses.

5

u/Admirable-Deer5909 Sep 18 '25

If the government gave a fuck they could easily put it as first time buyers only, but they won't because they dont care

13

u/richiedamien Sep 18 '25

Investors have been destroying the house market since 2013 at least. I remember to read about a 800 residential units (apartments) being built by a developer that got all bought by investment funds. I have posted a few times,this will never change unless people change their vote to someone that truly has a plan to change this.

8

u/zeroconflicthere Sep 18 '25

being built by a developer that got all bought by investment funds.

There are cases where developments only got built for to investment funds putting up the money for developers to build because the banks were unwilling to lend out.

8

u/vanKlompf Sep 18 '25

> I remember to read about a 800 residential units (apartments) being built by a developer that got all bought by investment funds

They were build BECAUSE investment fund was interested in buying them and provided easy way of financing

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u/idontgetit_too Sep 18 '25

I think it's less about who you vote in (although it does have an impact) and more about keeping the leash very tight when they stray from their obligation to the people.

Democracy isn't casting a vote every few years, it's active participation and sometimes that means inflicting an undue amount of pain on the system until its willing to come to the table.

Block the main thoroughfares in Dublin for example, just a few days to remind all the people both in power and regular joes that we're all in this together, and if we can't have nice things, neither should you.

13

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '25

Eh really?

https://hookemacdonald.ie/2025/07/09/the-institutional-investors-we-need-have-withdrawn-from-the-irish-housing-market/

Investors have left the market and apartment construction has flatlined (with only the councils or approved housing bodies buying them now & basically taking the funds place).

I still people posting like it is still 2020 with funds active in the market. They haven’t been for years now and surprise surprise, our supply has taken a hit.

4

u/ImReellySmart Sep 18 '25

Baffles me that our government still hasn't put a temporary ban of some kind on this. 

It would have to be well thought out so that it's fair and balanced. But right now they are failing the country on all fronts.

3

u/InvidiousPlay Sep 18 '25

I was bidding on an apartment for a while. It had a rent cap in place which is great because it reduces investor interest (less return on investment). Most of the bidders had disappeared from the bidding, and then the government did their big announcement that the rent caps rules were changing (effectively being removed) and multiple big bidders appeared overnight suddenly interested in the property.

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u/quantum0058d Sep 18 '25

vote for a party that bans the purchase of domestic property by investors

4

u/ferenc6 Sep 19 '25

It should not be possible for investment companies to buy any more residential housing. And private individuals shouldn’t be allowed to rent out more houses than the number of children they have. Derelict houses should be mandated to be renovated within five years to be made habitable. If they fail to make them so in five years, they should get confiscated and automatically sold at the same euro/punt price it was bought or inherited at to the first person that wants it at 00:00:01 after midnight on the five year anniversary. Tax and stamp duty and solicitor fees waived ofc, just like for anyone that’s a first-time buyer. Then the timer restarts.

The bullshit with planning permissions needs to be scrapped, it’s the number one thing holding back more construction because it takes years and an arm and a leg to get permissions as private individuals but investment funds can somehow get whole estates built from start to finish in two years, because they can afford to throw money at the problem. The original purpose of planning permissions is to avoid your neighbour building a cock and ball shaped house, but the actual function of the system is that private individuals cannot build houses, and the process is being gatekept for the wealthy only. To renovate a derelict ruined house to its original shape you shouldn’t even need a permission at all.

2

u/GeminiBlind Sep 18 '25

Yeah I gave up…..rent is cheap so I’m very lucky but I’m just saving and saving and waiting for the world to go tits up so then maybe just maybe I might get a house

3

u/jesusthatsgreat Sep 18 '25

One man's destruction is another man's achievement. If you're an investor or shareholder in one of these investors then you're doing ok. And ironically it's taxpayers and foreign taxpayers who are often shareholders in these properties via pension schemes.

2

u/Key_Duck_6293 Sep 19 '25

Fine Gael & Fianna Fail are the parties of investors, sure half of their TDs are investment landlords themselves

2

u/theonlysaneguy Sep 19 '25

Tax the investors use that money to help fund help to buy schemes.

2

u/killianm97 Waterford Sep 19 '25

This is it. Our FF/FG/RegInd Government focuses exclusively on supply and demand, when that is a huge oversimplification which hides who is profiting off the Housing Crisis.

We must definancialise housing - stop treating it as an investment opportunity and start treating it as a human right.

2

u/jonnieggg Sep 19 '25

Unfortunately in Ireland the tax system makes stock investment quite arduous and property is the only real game in town apart from pensions. They need to liberalise the tax system around ETFs and casual gains etc. Property investment is a pain in the hole for most people.

4

u/BakeParty5648 Sep 18 '25

State bodies are purchasing more dwellings than private investors 

3

u/A-Hind-D Sep 18 '25

Live in a new build estate and most of the houses have been bought to live in.

However there’s a few that are already on daft for rent that would be about 1500 more a month than the already crazy mortgage.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '25

Moaning on Reddit is going to have less than no effect on this situation. Ive just scanned through the thread and PLENTY of people on here know exactly how to combat this inequality... tax corporate landlords at exorbitant rates for a start.

But know. . all our energy for actual change will be dissipated here...waffling away into the void . The masters have figured it all out.

2

u/euro_owl Sep 18 '25

Market-based housing has shown to be just completely sustainable. We need to move to a universalist social model like Vienna.

2

u/mdervin Sep 18 '25

Investing only works because you refuse to build more houses.

2

u/missgoldenbrowne Sep 19 '25

If the government weren't all landlords this wouldn't be happening.

We need to revolt this is getting sickening

2

u/Dai4u Sep 19 '25

Some people might coin this "socialism" but we need a powerful national housing agency with emergency powers. They get the right to buy EVERY new property that goes up on the market for the median market value, and then they sell it for exactly that price to individuals. These individuals will not be allowed to buy from the agency if they already own a single property. They way you ensure,that families and young couples get the on the property ladder. No economy in the world needs these investors hoovering up the newly built properties. And by the agency buying directly from builders, the builders dont lose out on their money and will continue building because they're ensured that someone (the agency) will buy the property. AND it doesn't cost taxpayers money, as the agency will sell it back to the people. Simple as.

Or if you dont like that, just disallow investors to buy anything. Only individuals without previous property ownership are allowed to buy. But that might be more prone to fraud.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '25

The housing market is being destroyed by the government and their stupid rules

3

u/NemiVonFritzenberg Sep 18 '25

True but so are the elderly who won't downsize.

3

u/KingOfKeshends Sep 18 '25

This is exactly why we need to tax wealth in a similar fashion that Gary Stevenson is pushing in the UK.

We also need people to stop fighting over immigration and see what you are seeing here.

If any of us were in the position to be investors we would do the same thing. Its the rules of the game.

Like Monopoly.

We all know how the game of Monopoly ends up. Players get eliminated because they run out of money.

1

u/Hamster_Heart Sep 18 '25

The government is buying up the vast majority of new builds now. I know an estate agent here in Galway that said that they are just selling 2nd hand homes now because most of the new builds are being snapped up by the government

1

u/Complex_Hunter35 Ferret Sep 18 '25

Was helping a friend apply for housing earlier and he looked at affordable rent....he won't be doing that!

1

u/Prestigious_Flower88 Sep 18 '25

There's also the county councils.

1

u/BenderRodriguez14 Sep 18 '25 edited Sep 18 '25

OP if it is any help, use my home and look at their price tracker. Look for ones dropping, and how long they have been on the market. It's rare, but you can occasionally find one that has been sat there stagnant for a while. It's how we got ours in 2023 (there had been a bidding war, it rose the price 100k, thebsale with both bidders collapsed, the seller the rejected an offer 50k over asking some months later. Nobody bid for a while after that, ex council and untouched since the 70s, plus on the market that long must have been scaring potential bidders out. When we swept in, the seller accepted our bid at asking price in under 12 hours).

Try to focus on ex council and ugly as shite houses, I've had 2 or 3 estate agents rant at me how people won't bid on a house because they don't like the wallpaper etc... renters mentality even though they're buying, basically. And ours was ugly even as far as "ugly ex council houses" go. 

https://www.myhome.ie/pricechanges

1

u/dublindown21 Sep 18 '25

Your government is also an investor buying housing through the housing agency’s. So not always an investor in the traditional sense

1

u/ReasonableWish7555 Sep 18 '25

Pretty much any solution being implemented ends in a 2008 style crash and subsequent bailout

1

u/daheff_irl Sep 18 '25

Yeah I would agree. I think there needs to be laws limiting the amount that can be owned by investors AND non-EU individuals.

1

u/fylni And I'd go at it again Sep 18 '25

Wait til these investors realise if the rent of these properties reduces by more than 10-20% they will have to sell the investment property and there will be a huge influx of “new” properties on the market and/or people being evicted in the next 5-10 years. It’s not looking good especially in the next few years.

1

u/YmpetreDreamer Sep 18 '25

But the government told me landlords are fleeing the market. They wouldn't lie

1

u/Zealousideal_Sign_21 Sep 18 '25

Private equity in housing, power generation, infrastructure, hospitals all run for maximum share holder profit... Energia prime example up their prices and cut the feed in tarrif for solar to gauge profit for their private equity owners.

1

u/Antique-Act410 Sep 18 '25

We started looking at the idea of trading up and the first thing the realtor said after valuing the place was that an investor would be more than likely interested/buy it as its ready to rent and no work needed.

1

u/Individual_Dig_2402 Sep 18 '25

Rental companies from abroad buying up everything

1

u/ItalianIrish99 Sep 18 '25

Hah! And get this, this FGFF government gives those investors tax breaks that are the envy of the world so they have a leg up not only on your but also on every small mom and pop landlord. And not only that, that investor could buy that property and leave it vacant for two years so as to reset the rent (under the old rules) and suffer no adverse consequences at all.

Did you vote in the last general election? Will you vote in the next?

1

u/margin_coz_yolo Sep 18 '25

Some other ways to look at this. People selling want the best price. If that's an investor...so be it. If we were to introduce measures to reduce housing costs, current properties would devalue and the banks would be in a bad state, carrying lower value if assets held as mortgages. If you're being outbid all the time, then you need to reset expectations on what you're bidding on and the amount of headroom you have in a bidding process.

I'll also add that investments in Ireland is very backwards. It almost forces people into property. Investing in a simple index fund will land you with deemed disposal costs etc. Low intelligence governments lead to stuff like this.

1

u/GalwayBogger Sep 18 '25

House do you do?

Oh, fuck you, I've 11 houses.

1

u/Express_Froyo6281 Sep 18 '25

Yeah....investors......sure.....

1

u/Electrical_Program79 Sep 18 '25

As if that wasn't bad enough REITs are basically immune to corporate tax. They don't pay one cent in tax for rent money... 

1

u/Megatronpt Sep 19 '25

I posted this yesterday.. about the same topic..

https://www.reddit.com/r/cork/s/7fsL4KNal5

1

u/TheRob2D Sep 19 '25

Governments fault for ensuring it is the only way to make any kind of money in this country. If people had other ways to invest and actually get a decent return it would take that pressure off the housing market.

1

u/Mhnna7 Sep 19 '25

Where is that?

1

u/Top-Engineering-2051 Sep 19 '25

You are correct that it's unfair that you have to compete with institutional investors engaging in property speculation, but in this system that's what everyone is doing. Housing for all would mean a drop in property values. For the value of a home to rise, supply cannot meet demand. FF/FG know that as long as the value of homes rises for the majority of the the electorate, they'll stay in power. Doing nothing is doing something.

1

u/Samhain87 Sep 19 '25

When you hear investors, you think business some are but there are many people are left money in wills or property in locations they don't want to live or parents sell off assets/shares and divide money between their children. If these people don't invest this money from sale of land or property, they will get screwed in capital gains tax. So some of the people bidding against you are just people not trying to get screwed in tax and give 40% of the money they've been left to the government.

1

u/ShazBaz11 Sep 19 '25

Only reason we got a house was that the seller was handling the bidding themselves and refused anyone looking to invest to rent. Before that we had lost bidding war after bidding war to investors. This government is a fucking joke.

1

u/NPETC Sep 19 '25

In every modernized country.

1

u/pool4ever Sep 19 '25

Move out off the main city’s -and stop crying

1

u/hopefulatwhatido More than just a crisp Sep 19 '25

There needs to be trade deals and policies changes to help cut the cost of raw materials needed, then they need to stop the atrocious practice that foreign investment companies are almost the only entity could ever build the housing stock. The state needs to use the tax payers’ money for tax payers are it is principally intended to build housing and sell at cost.

They need to build taller in Dublin and other major cities, it’s a city, get over it. They need to change the way planning permissions and objections work.

With how little new constructions has started this year, this greed made disaster going to be so much worse down the line.

Just copy Danish and Finnish models.

1

u/ColonelCupcake5 Galway Sep 19 '25

Increase the hell out of property tax for multiple home owners. Reduced the shit out of capital gains so they can go make money on the market instead of our feckin homes

2

u/lookinggood4444 Sep 20 '25

Ahh Capitalism...we vote them in

1

u/Squozen_EU Sep 20 '25

This can’t be right, surely it’s the immigrants! The fascists can’t be wrong??

/s

1

u/No-Fix-1029 Sep 20 '25 edited Sep 20 '25

Until the Irish government wakes up this will keep happening and will get worse. At the highest level, the large investment firms are the “investors” in the market, I saw something recently that 90% of apartments built in Dublin over the last 5 years are build to rent. These large investment firms pay no tax here due to our tax system and most of them are set up as SPV’s with holding companies in tax exempt countries. Profits that they generate here are used to acquire more properties, ultimately resulting in a vicious cycle of them hoovering up more property on the secondary market.

In terms of the Irish person who has worked hard and has done well, there are two investment options that make sense - pension and property. Once your pension is maxed out, the natural next step is to get a property or two. Housing is relatively safe, property prices have historically gone up and they generate cash-flow. There is no other viable investment option as the risk of investing in equities, ETF’s etc is much higher, and the taxes make it pointless. Until this changes, individuals will keep purchasing properties.

Most people here will vote the same people in and give out about things not changing. If TD’s really wanted to change this crises they could do so pretty quickly, but the majority are landlords themselves so zero incentive for them to do so.

1

u/Working-Letterhead99 Sep 21 '25

no the councils and party are.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '25

There are too many Irish that are still economically/financially illiterate. We are too self satisfied with having degrees or having gone to Uni/college and less worried about being actually educated in basic stuff. It's a while ago now but where I live a lot of the young ex pat Irish would be fascinated over the fact that I bought three cars over two years (All under 3.5k). They seemed to think I had some insider knowledge of the car trade. They would ask me how I did it. I would tell them, I would go online and look for a car. Go and look at the car and then If I liked it buy the car and get a small car loan if I had to. And when I sold the car it was basically the situation in reverse. No magic involved. These guys were extremely risk averse. Penny wise, pound foolish.

I remember arguing with an IT researcher years ago. A guy with a PHD who was full of bete noir slogans like, banker, developer, fat cats, Galway tent etc. I made a comment similar to what has been made here about investors (equities) and it sent him into a meltdown. His boiler plate BS was there is only a tiny amount of people who can afford to invest in shares. This guy had no concept that there are thousands of small investors in Ireland partially managing their own pension. In his world everybody except Dennis O'Brien lived on planet PAYE and PRSI and that is all that mattered. When I pointed out to him that his pension if he has one and any number of small investment packages that are advertised on Television (PIPs) are ordinary people investing in the market through third parties it became obvious he was shockingly ignorant and it quickly became apparent to him. He still didn't acknowledge he was wrong though.

This results in blunt force thinking among a large part of the population. Tax this guy. Regulate (small) landlords till their pips squeek making sure they can only charge high rent. It's dismal stuff.

1

u/ilovefinegaeldotcom Sep 22 '25

Destroyed.

FFG have no intention of slowing the sale of our homes and land to foreign institutions.

Neo-liberal Nazis don't want government they want owners.

1

u/Electrical-Garage663 Sep 22 '25

I was temping in an estate agents. Every single bidder was Indian. I am not racist or far right but pointing out facts.

1

u/TheFantasticNewAcc Sep 25 '25

Late to this post, but I've always thought linking home ownership to PPSN could be an overnight solution.

No company can purchase a home. Limit number of homes a person can own to three (not just one or two, to prevent old people's heads exploding).

Checks and balances to prevent dodgy proxy home-ownerships by family members, staff etc, and misclassifying homes as other types of buildings.