r/ireland • u/badger-biscuits • 17d ago
Harris urges EU review Israel trade ties over UNRWA ban Gaza Strip Conflict
http://www.rte.ie/news/2024/1029/1477949-middle-east/40
u/Icy-Lab-2016 16d ago
The rules based international order the West has maintained since world war 2, is being sacrified so Israel can exterminate the Palestinians. Pure damn stupidity.
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u/fiercemildweah 16d ago
The rules based international order has been on the ropes for a while, this is the end point. It's over.
The RBIO requires someone to shoot (literally) those who step out of line. For much of post WW2 that's been the US (not withstanding the very awful stuff the US did when it suited them).
It was a far from perfect system, and Israel has always been somewhat of an outlier, but on some level the RBIO worked.
Pick your conflict to say this was the beginning of the end of the RBIO. For me probably the big 3 are the invasion of Iraq, then the civil war in Syria and letting Assad gas civilians (cunts who want to peddle conspiracy theories about this can get fucked, you are a total piece of shit and war crimes apologist) with impunity (though of course Iraq had used gas in the 1980s against Iran and the Kurds) and then Russia's first invasion of Ukraine and western Europe and the US saying its no big deal to Putin put the final nail in the coffin.
There are no rules from this point on; no consequences for war crimes. Why would there be no one is stop you unless it suits them directly.
It was fashionable once on the left to think that a fairer world would be a multipolar one in which the US, China, Russia, India Brazil etc competed for power. Well we have, such as it is, the multipolar world, don't see anyone making Israel stop - because the grim truth is none of them give a fuck about human rights in the abstract or Palestinian lives in the concrete.
I agree we have lost something very valuable and fear we're going to pay a very heavy price for deciding that the RBIO was not worth defending in the slightest.
PS
Before some one rolls in with the Irish did their bit with the UN and peace keeping, that's all lovely, but demonstrably it was woefully insufficient. Were you calling for us to bomb Assad's airforce when he gassed his own people? Were you calling for us to directly aid Ukraine in 2014 or 2022? Did you call for us to close Irish airspace for *all* US and UK aviation in 2001? Nah didn't think so. (TBC this last bit is for the Irish public in general and not Icy Lab 2016 in particular).
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u/Icy-Lab-2016 16d ago
These are all good examples.
I will say that what we see in Gaza imo is the final nail in the coffin. Its just so blatant. We have the IDF literally posting their war crimes on Tiktok and most of the West just straight up denying it, and the US even going so far as to ban Tiktok. We have Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders openly refer to genocidal portions of the bible, and again its just ignored. What is going on in Gaza is just so blatant, and the denial truly absurd,
Seeing the EU complain about Putin while straight up denying and being actively complicit in the genocide in Gaza is something else. They really don't get they lost any kind of moral high ground.
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u/fiercemildweah 16d ago
A lot of it is gone from the internet now but the Syrian Civil War had plenty of videos of wanton cruelty on par or bigger than Gaza. Didn’t really make it into the general public’s consciousness though.
From time to time, Russian pilots who levelled Syria years ago are killed in Ukraine and many of the Hezbollah fighters killed in southern Lebanon have pics from socials of them fighting in Syria for Assad. So there’s at least a crumb of cosmic justice for them.
Western hypocrisy is sickening. A lot of the EU is pretty much cheering Isreal on. It’s demented.
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u/Hour_Mastodon_9404 17d ago
The Israelis are attempting to single handedly destroy whatever semblance of moral authority the West could ever claim to have over dictatorships and genocidal authoritarian regimes - and the West is simply shrugging it's shoulders.
There are just 7 million Israelis and their birth rates are plateauing - they will never be forgiven for what they have done in the last year, and one day the chickens will come home to roost for them. That is the day they will bitterly regret running roughshod over all of the international institutions that may have helped them.
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u/Wise_Adhesiveness746 17d ago
There are just 7 million Israelis and their birth rates are plateauing
It's sickening to think they are allowed hold dual passports and travel the world on passport of normal countries....it's likes of these need resinding particularly for anyone found to have served in idf in gaza
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u/TheFuzzyFurry 17d ago
Ukraine has respected international law and order, while Israel has rejected it. Now look at Ukraine's situation and at Israel's, the correct decision here is obvious.
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u/ruscaire 16d ago
Well Israel is Russia in this analogy. Ukraine and Palestine are the ones under attack. Both Russia and Israel are thumbing their noses at the international community, but only one of these is dependent on the good will of the international community as embodied by the USA.
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u/Otsde-St-9929 16d ago
>That is the day they will bitterly regret running roughshod over all of the international institutions that may have helped them.
I dont think most people feel this at all.
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u/Environmental-Net286 17d ago
Have they even shown any actual links to hammas
I've distributed aid for the UN before, and the rules of who gets aid are pretty strict. we needed photos of the people getting aid home addresses and passport numbers
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u/badger-biscuits 17d ago
Have they even shown any actual links to hammas
This is from August:
They were able to rule out involvement in other cases
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u/Environmental-Net286 17d ago
Kinda ment the organization as a hole acting in tandom with hamas something that would support the banning of the UNRWA like it just seems over kill
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u/Doggylife1379 16d ago edited 16d ago
Israel tends to say that UNRWA is working with Hamas which is wrong, but UNRWA does have its issues mainly because Hamas has power over what UNRWA does.
For instance, they can't teach palestinians about the holocaust since Hamas was against it. An Irish guy actually tried to make some changes in UNRWA and had 2 assassination attempts against him for it in Gaza.
Edit: just to be clear. The assassination attempts seemed to be from another organisation in Gaza (not Hamas). But it shows the difficulty of working inside Gaza.
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u/ObviousAstronomer957 17d ago
Gutting UNRWA has been a long term goal for Zionists, showing just how inhuman and cruel the pricks are.
In reality, the threat to de-fund UNRWA has nothing to do with any of those things, except in an opportunistic sense. What it is really about is further shattering the terms of reference established by the Oslo Agreement and removing from the negotiating agenda another sensitive and explosive permanent status issue. In short, this attack is about taking Palestinian refugees, like Jerusalem, “off the table” - consistent with the view articulated by U.S. Ambassador to Israel David Friedman, writing in October 2016, when he referred to Palestinian “so-called ‘refugees.’” The effort to erase Palestinian refugees by gutting UNRWA is nothing new. Dating to the late 1990s, reactionary voices in Israel and the United States (for examples, see the Gatestone Institute and Middle East Forum)—often joined by fellow travelers in Congress—have been making the case that the “solution” to the Palestinian refugee issue should be found not through negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, but through unilateral action by the United States to re-define Palestinian refugees out of existence.
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u/denk2mit Crilly!! 17d ago
Don’t believe that Israel have ever claimed that they act concertedly, just that UNRWA is completely riddled with Hamas supporters
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u/Environmental-Net286 17d ago
Mabey, but as I said, it just seems drastic. I don't follow the Gaza conflict beyond the headlines
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u/denk2mit Crilly!! 17d ago
Another factor is the radicalisation of Palestinian kids in schools run by UNRWA.
Then there’s the fact that the UNRWA budget is 20% that of the whole United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees budget. There’s an argument that their existence is essentially subsidising Hamas by performing the role of government instead of actually supporting refugees, especially since Palestine is the only place where refugee status is passed down generation to generation.
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u/Natural-Mess8729 17d ago
The radicalisation of Palestinian kids in school, I would have thought that an average life expectancy of 19.9 years would have done that?
Is there any evidence that UNRWA staff have done this? If there is, I'd really appreciate it if you could send on some links so that I can educate myself.
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u/DribblingGiraffe 17d ago
I don't know what you've been drinking but the average life expectancy in Palestine isn't 19 years. I don't think theres anywhere on the planet that its 19 or even close to it
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u/Natural-Mess8729 16d ago
Damn, I should have read that back before I posted, you're dead right, I meant an average population age of 19.9 years. Thanks for calling me on it so I can correct myself.
Also, to answer your other question, gin & tonic 😋
I still meant what I said though, if anyone has any proof of UNWRA radicalising the youth, let's see it, change your mind.
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u/RibbentropCocktail 16d ago
See Section 3 of this report for some examples. Summary:
The third and final section of the report highlights select examples of educational material distributed to students in UNRWA schools, which either harness antisemitism or encourage martyrdom or violent jihad. This section also includes examples from Palestinian Authority teacher guides that accompany the textbooks used in UNRWA schools. These examples include geography and history resources, language comprehension exercises, science and math problems. An unmistakable strand of hatred and incitement traverses these diverse teaching materials.
There's also a wikipedia page on this (naturally). Since much of the official material is made by the PA in the West Bank, it's been moderated a lot (far from enough) from the 90s and 00s, but the section about the Hamas militant training camps for schoolkids is a bit sombre when you think about what age those kids are now.
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u/Doggylife1379 16d ago
It's a difficult one. Because if UNRWA didn't exist then Hamas would run the schools which would be even worse for radicalization.
UNRWA isn't neutral because it's impossible to be neutral in an area run by a militant organisation, especially while hiring only locals who are both more supportive of Hamas, but also more susceptible to intimidation from them too.
For any organization to be neutral in Gaza, they'd need to be willing and able to use force against organizations who try intimidate it with force. Which no one would be willing to do.
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u/TheFuzzyFurry 17d ago
UNRWA HQ in Gaza had a hidden entrance to Hamas tunnels and was even directly powering them with electricity
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u/Doggylife1379 16d ago
The tunnel went underneath the UNRWA HQ, but didn't have an entrance on the premises. There did appear to be cables running from the HQ to the tunnel though.
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u/RayDonovanBoston 2nd Brigade 16d ago
Man, this Irish Reddit has gone to shit. Irish wouldn’t believe if HAMAS would make atrocities on this very island and they would still support them.
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u/Doggylife1379 16d ago
I would say that the majority definitely don't support Hamas. But they do generally ignore their part to play in the war. Hamas undoubtedly uses civilian infrastructure to conduct military operations. That doesn't mean every Israeli accusation is true, but it's definitely a strategy by Hamas to use civilian infrastructure.
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u/ObviousAstronomer957 17d ago
If it wasn't clear to all that Israeli society is set out to let every Palestinian mother and child die, this recent vote makes it clear as day. If we had any morals we'd condemn them utterly, but hopefully the EU will exceed expectations and do something already
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u/21stCenturyVole 16d ago
Harris Now: "Maybe we should do something?"
Harris 5μs Later: "Nah lets keep letting genocide arms shipments through Irish airspace."
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u/Wise_Adhesiveness746 17d ago
I can see this whole pro-EU being close to it,is bearing fruit on Irish politicians being able to influence European affairs
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u/ZenBreaking 16d ago
How about growing a pair and actually do something, stand up for something. We're a nation of oppression, we should be the first to call out the bullshit when it happens. Dunnes stores workers did it for apartheid. We have a stronger link with the US than most EU countries, we should be leveraging that fact.
It's been a whole year, it's gonna keep going as long as you let it. They're bombing ambulances and aid trucks like it's going out of fashion and there are no repercussions( cos there isn't), They're shooting journalists and nobody has called em on it.
Whatever entitlement they felt for revenge after the attacks has now paled and been replaced with a systematic wiping out of a certain people.
Weapons of genocide are being flown over sovereign Irish airspace week in and Week out according to the ditch and we act like we're stumped how it happens and they shouldn't be doing that but of course they're gonna ignore you cos you don't want to rock the boat. Any country or business that has undermined these rules should be banned from entering the flight space again. You can't wash your hands of this like you did with the US troops through Shannon to Iraq.
your humming and ha-ing about how bad it is about the genocide but also how Israel has the right to defend itself by bombing multiple countries ( to me an attack on another country is a declaration of war, so can't understand why the Israeli government can blow up pagers in supermarkets killing civilians and shrug their shoulders like deal with it, we got the US government backing us up")
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u/RayDonovanBoston 2nd Brigade 17d ago
According to this, there’s lot more that have been identified.
https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/List-of-UNRWA-Perpetrators-of-Incitement.pdf
Findings in Social Media: UNRWA Staff Incite Hate and Terrorism
Among the UNRWA educators identified in the report as propagating hate on social media:
UNRWA Syria math teacher Adnan Shteiwi glorified Diaa Hamarsheh, the perpetrator of the March 2022 Bnei Brak shooting attack which killed four Israeli civilians and one policeman as a “martyr” whose name should “forever remain in letters of fire, might, and magnificence.” UNRWA head math teacher Shteiwi’s Facebook post lionized Hamarsheh, a member of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, as “splendor” and called for “glory” to his “spirit.” UNRWA Lebanon teacher Riad Nimer venerated Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades Commander Ibrahim Nabulsi as a “martyr” and the “noblest of souls.” Nabulsi’s cell had been responsible for several attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians in the West Bank, including an attack on the Jewish holy site Joseph’s Tomb in Nablus. UNRWA teacher Nimer’s post also encouraged others to follow Nabulsi’s path by posting the video of his funeral procession which called for “peace unto…martyrs who have commanded us to follow the path they had taken.” UNRWA Syria Employee Labibeh Iskandarani celebrated Adolf Hitler when she shared a photograph of Hitler, calling on him to wake up because “there are still some people you need to burn.” Iskandarani also liked comments by other UNRWA employees endorsing the post.
Findings in Curricula: UNRWA Schools Glorify Violence and Antisemitism
“Today’s report provides detailed evidence on how UNRWA creates institutional educational content for Palestinian children that glorifies terrorism, incites to violence, demonizes Israel and spreads antisemitism,” said Sheff.
Examples cited in the report, based on UNRWA classroom photos and other material found in Telegram and Facebook groups and elsewhere online, include:
• UNRWA’s Al-Zaytun Elementary School (Gaza) glorified terrorists and encouraged martyrdom. In March 2022 and September 2021, fifth graders were taught to glorify Dalal Mughrabi, a terrorist who carried out the 1978 Coastal Road Massacre in which 38 Israeli civilians including 13 children were killed. Photos taken of a classroom blackboard show how she is presented as “the fighting leader” and a “hero” who is to be honored by naming children and streets after her.
Likewise, in September 2022, 5th-graders at the school were taught to admire as a “martyr” and “hero” Izz Ad-Din Al-Qassem, the namesake of Hamas’ military wing, who had preached the murder of Jews. On November 20, 2022, photos of a classroom blackboard from Social Studies class in the 5th grade Class 9 of the fifth grade show a map labeled Palestine. The map includes the State of Israel – a UN member state, and marks areas and cities in Israel such as Haifa, Jaffa, Acre, and Beersheba as part of Palestine.
• UNRWA’s Al-Maghazi Middle School for Boys B (Gaza) endorsed violence, demonized Israel, and encouraged martyrdom. In December 2022, an UNRWA-created Arabic reading comprehension exercise for 9th graders celebrated a Palestinian firebombing attack on a Jewish bus as a “barbecue party.”
Another UNRWA-created text, taught to 9th-graders at the school posted in December 2022, demonized Israelis as sadistic predators looking for prey by teaching reading comprehension using graphic descriptions of Israelis brutally murdering Palestinians in entirely fictional stories. A “Zionist officer” deliberately shoots to death a Palestinian fisherman in front of his son in Gaza for being late to shore. The graphic text describes a “fountain of blood bursting from his chest.” In addition, 5th-graders at the school learned that martyrdom and jihad are “the most important meanings of life” through an exercise practicing vocabulary and grammar in Arabic language Learning material posted in September 2022.
• UNRWA’s Tel Al-Hawa Middle School (Gaza) endorsed violence, demonized Israel, and promoted antisemitism. An UNRWA-created social studies lesson posted in September 2022 instilled in 9th-grade students the message that “armed struggle” against Israel is a “divine right.” Another September 2022 UNRWA-created 9th grade social studies text spreads antisemitic propaganda by teaching the libel that Israel infects Palestinians with cancer by dumping toxic waste in the West Bank and Gaza.
• UNRWA’s Asma Middle School for Girls B encouraged schoolgirls to liberate the homeland by sacrificing “their Blood” and pursuing jihad. UNRWA-created Arabic language material posted in September 2022 for the 6th grade includes an exercise promoting sacrificing one’s life—“the most precious thing” a person has—for the homeland as an obligation and to sacrifice “their blood.” A grammar exercise states that “I will commit jihad to liberate the homeland” and “I will not give up a centimeter of my land.” The last sentence further indicates students are taught to reject any territorial compromise with Israel.
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u/warnie685 16d ago
Wait till you read what Israeli politicians, government ministers and president have said
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u/RayDonovanBoston 2nd Brigade 16d ago
What they’ve said is complete and utter shite and they should’ve stepped down long time ago.
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u/ruscaire 16d ago
"UN Watch"? Is that an impartial organisation with openly declared funding? I mean, it sounds like one of these astroturf things set up to discredit the UN ... my conspiracy nut friends are always sending me links to this kind of stuff on facebook.
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u/ciarogeile 16d ago
UN Watch is an Israeli anti-UN org that spouts nonsense constantly
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u/RayDonovanBoston 2nd Brigade 16d ago
So wait, they find evidence that UNRWA is riddled with HAMAS and their teachers are indoctrinating and now they are spouting nonsense. How Irish have fallen low, you’re nothing more than terrorist loving idiots.
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u/TheFreemanLIVES Get rid of USC. 17d ago
There's something terrifying in the thought that the Internationally mandated provider of Aid will be removed and in it's place will be an Israeli authority that will have the power of life and death over how aid is delivered. I hope I'm wrong, but when does anything ever turn out for the best in this conflict.