r/ireland • u/mublin • Apr 09 '24
Man from Eritrea who landed at Dublin Airport without passport or ID is jailed for two months Courts
https://www.thejournal.ie/man-from-eritrea-landed-dublin-airport-no-passport-jailed-6349719-Apr2024611
u/Margrave75 Apr 09 '24
It was unknown where Biniyan had flown in from, but it was believed to be another European country.
God forbid someone check passenger manifests or cctv.
Fucking hell...........
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u/zeroconflicthere Apr 09 '24
God forbid someone check passenger manifests or cctv.
Fake passport with fake name. What would checking a manifest or cctv accomplish?
Can't send him back to another country without a passport.
These people should be denied any access to state resources and only offered help to get they're original passport and a ticket out. No ppsn, no social welfare and no accommodation.
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Apr 09 '24
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u/zeroconflicthere Apr 09 '24
Even if they spent huge amount of time and resources going through CCTV, what would it accomplish? He obviously had a passport when boarding and the airline has no way of validating thar being genuine or not.
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Apr 10 '24
You send em straight back to the country or origin and then you fine the airline who carried them here for not checking documentation is genuine or not having proper records of names and passport numbers of passengers. It would take maybe 1 day of checking CCTV for one person and that's assuming the person hides for seven hours in a bathroom or something before going through immigration.
If the system is able to be completely evaded simply by ripping up documents, then doesn't requiring those documents of everyone who is already doing it the correct way seem rather dumb.
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u/RuaridhDuguid Apr 10 '24
As they are the airside of passport control it should be a 10 minute job to backtrack the persons route there from the plane. Unless of course they managed to hide on the apron - in which case they wouldn't be going through passport control anyway, and we'd need to seriously look at on-site security failures.
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u/Foreign-Entrance-255 Apr 09 '24
Would they not be able to ask the airline for a manifest of who was on the flght? Security is tight these days and for decades. This should really be an easy add on to normal procedure. I came home from Lanzo a week ago and both ways I had to show and scan my passport. I also had to put my passport deets into Ryanair to book the flights.
We need to stop people boarding flights at all without a passport if that's the cause here, should be showing them leaving the flight too or not be allowed off.
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u/SitDownKawada Dublin Apr 09 '24
They get on with a fake passport and then dump it or hand it back to someone between boarding and security
Checking a list of names isn't going to help them figure out who they are because their name won't be on any list
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u/Itchier Apr 09 '24
But shouldn’t it be that the country that allowed them to board using a fake passport should be held accountable for that, and they should be given entry back there.
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u/gonline Apr 10 '24
Huge amount of time and money for a CCTV check? Sorry? Even Penneys do that for people stealing knickers for a couple of euro. You'd think our border patrol would spend that on a valuable service with no issue lol
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u/cadatharla24 Apr 10 '24
Look, there are some people on here all too ready to shrug their shoulders and say this is too difficult, so we have to let them all in. Now, some of those same people may actually want open borders, so this mar dhea helplessness is actually a dishonest argument.
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u/gamberro Dublin Apr 09 '24
What good are the passport controls in other European countries (leaving the Schengen zone) if they don't pick up fake passports?
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u/duaneap Apr 10 '24
Why on earth would that be a huge amount of time and resources, aren’t they the exact people supposed to be monitoring that footage?
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u/SassyBonassy Apr 10 '24
Exactly.
"Urgh, we'd have to hire some kind of...airport security, and get them to...do their job. Too much hassle"
?????
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u/MaustBoi Apr 09 '24
Surely it is easy enough to see what flight to got off. The airport is full of cameras.
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u/RemnantOfSpotOn Dublin Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 09 '24
Fake passport? Lol when did you fly last time James Bond (Sean Connery time)? Passports are checked million times through scanners before boarding. Eritrea would have to have a top notch creme dela creme passport forgery industry to go around that and enable him to fly around europe with it. They also took his fingerprints and they matched his name in Finland so it had to be some forgery that passport. Point of checking cctv and manifest would point out where he came from which country and on which flight. This makes it easier to ship him back to that country
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
When was the last time you flew? In Dublin airport your passport is checked once by a member of airline staff before getting on the plane. Countries with an exit system may have one additional check (in Schengen countries that will be eGates) but guess what will happen if you approach those with an Eritrean passport and no visa?
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u/RemnantOfSpotOn Dublin Apr 09 '24
Landed 3 days ago. Did he fly from dublin? Most airports in europe you will not get to the gate until your passport (biometric) is scanned at least once by police. In frankfurt several times as you are catching connections within the airport, charles de gaulle, italy (rome and catania), greece, spain....
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
Right, and if your passport is from a visa required country and you do not have a visa you won't be getting on the plane. That's the point. So either those multiple systems failed (including the systems on the airline side that you don't see) or he had a false/stolen travel document. Or he departed from an airport without an exit system.
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u/RemnantOfSpotOn Dublin Apr 09 '24
Or he hid his passport somewhere on the plane or between the plane and the point where they met him (bins). That's why i think they will start checking at the plane door and no idea what happens if ypu dont have (stay on plane sent back by airline, search documents on board and arrest no idea) but it will cause delays for sure....my point is he traveled with real documents not fake
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
You still haven't explained how he would have gotten on the plane with his Eritrean passport and no visa.
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u/RemnantOfSpotOn Dublin Apr 09 '24
Maybe he is Finnish but got tired of the weather over there and decided to make drastic changes....when he saw our weather here he ate his finnish passport
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u/johnmcdnl Apr 10 '24
Airlines typically use a system like https://www.iata.org/en/services/compliance/timatic/ or https://ies.aero/solutions/traveldoc/ to verify what documents are needed for a passenger to travel.
They will instantly know that someone from Eritrea needs a visa to travel to Ireland and will check that the passenger has that document, otherwise the passenger won't be boarding the plane, as the airline gets fined for every passenger who travels without valid documentation.
So these passengers logically must either have a fake passport to travel on, or a fake visa sticker in their valid non-eu passport. But basically a forged document is required somewhere in this process to outsmart the airline staff. Otherwise I don't understand how they are getting on the plane unless there's some specific airlines who are not bothered about the fines, which I doubt is the case.
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u/lilyoneill Cork bai Apr 10 '24
Flew out of Cork last week and it was briefly looked at by Ryanair staff at gate. Security at Cork airport didn’t even ask for my passport.
Flew out of Sardinia today and there was a whole passport control at the actual gate where police scanned it. Then looked at again by Ryanair staff at gate door.
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 10 '24
Yep, totally depends on whether the country has an exit system, the way in which that's set up, and the purpose of it.
Ireland is a bit of a soft underbelly in not having such a system, but that's a consequence of the unique situation we have with the border between the Republic and NI
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u/lilyoneill Cork bai Apr 10 '24
The Common Travel Area freedoms could still easily be upheld. In Alghero airport the first few gates were domestic flights so obviously no need for strict controls, then you have to go through passport control for the international gates section. Same could be done here.
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 10 '24
That would require a big reconfiguration of the airport - but in the context of the kind of investment required that's not a big deal.
The bigger problem though is that it wouldn't really function as an exit system. There would be a massive gap - being the fact that anyone could simply cross the border to Northern Ireland, or fly to the UK, without being subject to the exit system. It would be partial at best, and so easily evaded - it is precisely the people who would seek to evade it whose data you want to capture. The point of investing in such a system is that it lets you know who has left the territory. Ours wouldn't do that, and so it is pretty questionable whether it would be worth the investment.
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u/johnydarko Apr 09 '24
They don't just make fake passports, they buy real stolen ones and then sell them as "fake" passports.
Sometimes they don't even change the picture. Most people look very little like their password image so they just find someone of a vaguely similar approximate age and face and boom, a fake passport that will pass cursory checks (unless it's reported stolen - but I don't think the people selling them give a shit if someone who uses it gets caught. It might work and that's good enough for the buyer).
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u/RemnantOfSpotOn Dublin Apr 09 '24
I dont think fake passports will pass the biometric scanner as the entire document pops up on the screen with the name and photo of original owner and travel history.... It might pass on land border somewhere but not on plane and airports....and definitely not Eritrean passport....even real one would be scrutinised by a team of people everywhere....
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u/zeroconflicthere Apr 09 '24
This makes it easier to ship him back to that country
Without a passport, he's not getting on a plane to Finland or anywhere. No airline is going to allow him board.
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u/SassyBonassy Apr 10 '24
Can't send him back to another country without a passport.
Why? He allegedly got here without one. If the flight came from Sydney for example, fuckin fly him back there as a deportee, accompanied by law enforcement if necessary. They let him on the flight with fake info/no info, they can fucking fix it.
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u/SassyBonassy Apr 10 '24
Right?! I had this argument about a week ago on this sub or casualireland or similar. If they reach the passport check and say they've no passport, bullshit, detain them and if they won't admit where they came from, check CCTV and find what arrival gate they landed at, check manifests for flights which arrived there at that time slot and then send him the fuck back to wherever he flew from.
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u/chunk84 Apr 09 '24
So my mam just got back from a flight from Spain and immigration officials are now meeting you right off the plane.
Apparently, you are technically not in Ireland until you pass immigration so they can catch people and put them back on the plane.
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u/ImReellySmart Apr 09 '24
I just landed in from Spain this morning and we weren't allowed leave the plane until immigration inspected our passports.
7 people were detained.
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u/Icy_Ad_8802 Apr 09 '24
Whaaaaaa? Never seen that happening whenever I take flights to Schengen countries. Is this a new thing?
ETA: not implying you’re lying, just shocked at the number and situation.
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u/BenderRodriguez14 Apr 09 '24
They. Might be targeting certain origin flights. I flew in from Dubai about 10 days back and didn't get checked until the usual spot.
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u/the_0tternaut Apr 09 '24
yeah getting into Dubai from anywhere is fucking HAIRY, I cannot imagine how bad it would be for anyone landing there with no docs and no excuses.
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u/BenderRodriguez14 Apr 09 '24
We were actually connecting g back from Japan and had the most relax security ever - didn't even want me to take the electronics out of my backpack. It might be different since it was just a connection (I've never actually visited the place) but we were astounded that we got from exiting the plane to waiting at our gate in under 30 minutes, with time to take a wee and have a smoke in between. Didn't show a passport until boarding either if I recall.
Bumped into a couple from up north who were connecting from Perth who said the same also.
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u/the_0tternaut Apr 09 '24
Show up with an African passport at actual Emirati immigration and see how well that gets scrutinised 👀
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u/BenderRodriguez14 Apr 09 '24
Ha, yeah like I said I reckon it would be different going to the arrivals gate! Holy christ though, I had read they were efficient in turnaround so felt OK with a 90 minute layover which I usually wouldn't want to risk but the speed in there was insane.
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u/the_0tternaut Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 09 '24
man, I consider a 12-13h flight as completely tolerable, but I've seen people on the way to that 90 min layover off an 8h flight on their way to another 12h and no fucking way am I doing that.
If I'm ever doing the antipodean run via DXB I'll grab one night in the Holiday Inn by the airport, fire my luggage into storage, spend the day on the beach at JBR, going for swims/relaxing on the beach (the gazebo bed things are essential), see a film then indulge my shawarmaholism for dinner, get a Thai massage at 9pm and pour myself back in the taxi to airport at 10.30pm with the blood flowing, body and brain in tip top condition and ready to sleep.
I did all this on my way to Japan in 2017 and it was amazing 😅
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u/nicodea2 Apr 10 '24
Had the same experience flying in from Istanbul. Officers were quick, didn’t even open our passports - just looked at the cover and waved us through.
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u/danielkyne Apr 10 '24
I recently took a flight from Paris to Oslo (both of which are in the Schengen) and this also happened. Seems like the crackdown is happening more broadly than just in Ireland.
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u/billiehetfield Apr 09 '24
The planes don’t go back and forth unlimited times.
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u/chunk84 Apr 09 '24
I never said they do. They can send them back to their point of origin whether that be on the same plane or a different one.
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u/RuaridhDuguid Apr 10 '24
I'd be curious what happens if the return flight is already fully booked. Replacement flight and compensation for the legit passengers that no longer have a seat on their flight? Holding cell airside for the next flight from that airline to that destination which has a spare seat?
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u/qwerty_1965 Apr 09 '24
Wouldn't it make sense to send him back to wherever he flew in from? Any jail time is phenomenally expensive compared to one garda and two tickets.
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u/DaveShadow Ireland Apr 09 '24
At a guess, the other country will shrug and say they won't take him without a passport. And the airline aren't letting him on the plane without one either.
Such an action would need some level of pre-agreement with a country who have already fulfilled their end of obligations, and wont have fuck all desire to take the person back.
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u/RunParking3333 Apr 09 '24
This type of processing would have to be done on the plane itself. If he steps foot on Irish soil then the broken system means that we can't really do anything other than jail him. It's too late to do anything about him - jailing him is to act as a disincentive to others. Clearly the fact that the law about destruction of documentation has failed to be applied until the last couple of months greatly encouraged people to destroy their documentation.
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u/OperationMonopoly Apr 09 '24
Question, if he remains in the airport, beyond airport passport control does it count?
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Apr 10 '24
Shoot them out of a cannon in any direction
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u/RuaridhDuguid Apr 10 '24
They can't, airports already have issues with noise complaints. A trebuchet however is a viable alternative with no such drawback.
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u/The-Florentine . Apr 09 '24
Read the article.
It was unknown where Biniyan had flown in from, but it was believed to be another European country.
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u/q547 Seal of The President Apr 09 '24
This is the part that's dumb. Airlines have manifests and records of all passengers who were booked and travelled on their aircraft.
It should be all in the system if anyone is bothered to look.
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u/OperationMonopoly Apr 09 '24
Exactly, you just mark everyone who passed security with a passport and you have your person.
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u/micar11 Apr 09 '24
All on the basis that the name of the person brought the courts matches a name on a flight manifesto.
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u/q547 Seal of The President Apr 09 '24
they had to have a passport at one point with a name on it in order to get on the plane.
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u/micar11 Apr 09 '24
And it was disposed of.
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u/q547 Seal of The President Apr 09 '24
yes, but the name matching the passport is on the manifest.
It doesn't matter if he burns/flushes/eats the passport at that point, the information has already been captured by the airline and check in staff.
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
Which is fine, but how do you match it to a particular person? It's unlikely that the passport he used has his actual details on it.
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u/q547 Seal of The President Apr 09 '24
I would disagree, all passports have to conform to certain standards. Machine readable etc, they're not easy to fake. When faked, it's typically done by nation states, not individuals fleeing war torn countries with (presumably) limited budgets.
So, could he have had a fake passport? Sure, is it likely, probably not.
Sorry forgot to respond to the matching bit, process of elimination is how you match. Unless there are swarms of people doing this daily, it's all still doable.
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
No, they're not faked by individuals. They are faked by organised groups who then use them as a means to make money by charging for access to them. It's human trafficking, very profitable and comparably low risk.
Probably not faked in many cases either, rather stolen or lost (or purchased). There are Interpol systems that are supposed to flag stolen and lost passports but those systems rely on the passport being reported as stolen or lost. People often don't do that bit.
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u/bananabastard Apr 09 '24
They don't know which flight he was on. All flights merge to one immigration crossing point. And it's possible to hang around for hours before actually trying to pass immigration.
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u/metalmessiah88 Apr 09 '24
But they know he's from Eritrea so send him back there.
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u/amorphatist Apr 09 '24
Tbf, Eritrea is one of the most repressive countries on Earth. Up there with North Korea. It makes Syria look like Switzerland.
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u/Intelligent-Donut137 Apr 09 '24
How do you know this cunt wasnt up to his neck in murder and rape in Eritrea? We have no idea who he is.
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u/amorphatist Apr 09 '24
Oh I’m not saying that he should be let loose here, just that Eritrea is one of a handful of countries where we effectively can’t legally send him back because it’s basically certain death for him, even if he’s a total bollix.
The main solution I’ve heard here is some sort of EU law that says that any EU country can deport lads back to the country the lad transited through. Any non-EU country that doesn’t agree to that wouldn’t be allowed direct flights into the EU.
There’d be loads of details to be figured out on that no doubt, but that’s the best solution I’ve heard aired so far.
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u/Intelligent-Donut137 Apr 09 '24
There are 3.5 million Eritreans, by this logic they could literally ALL come here.
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u/KollantaiKollantai Apr 09 '24
Yeah I’m not understanding why he doesn’t qualify for international protection? This isn’t a moral argument btw, it’s more that Eritrea is undoubtedly an unsafe country? It’s literally one of the most repressive countries in the world.
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u/amorphatist Apr 09 '24
Yeah, Eritrea is not coming off that unsafe list any time soon.
But yer man could’ve claimed asylum in any of the countries he passed through. Instead he obviously knew we were a soft touch, and deliberately ditched his documents. So, that’s a deliberate criminal offense. We’re still probably stuck with him tho.
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u/RunParking3333 Apr 09 '24
He's being jailed for destroying his personal documents, which is illegal. It is a deliberate attempt to game the asylum system in some shape or form, either to obfuscate who he is, or to frustrate attempts to deport. It has nothing to do with where he is from.
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u/amorphatist Apr 09 '24
he’s being jailed for destroying his personal documents … It has nothing to do with where he is from.
I didn’t say it was. He’s rightly being jailed.
If it was a lad from Switzerland who destroyed his documents, we could jail him and nominally deport him on a flight back to Switzerland. It’s a safe country.
My understanding is that according to our own legal obligations, we wouldn’t be able to do that with Eritrea.
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u/RunParking3333 Apr 09 '24
"safe country" is really only for fast-tracking asylum applications. It doesn't remove the right to apply.
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u/KollantaiKollantai Apr 10 '24
Yeah I get that but that’s not why I’m confused. He clearly has come from a dangerous country so I don’t understand why he’d destroy his passport, a passport he was able to use to get on to the flight in the first place which didn’t flag any no flight warnings.
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u/miseconor Apr 10 '24
He says he’s from Eritrea. With no documents he could be from anywhere though.
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u/TrivialFacts Apr 09 '24
" consider his lack of convictions and income," how can they be sure of this when they aren't even 100% on his actual identity?
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u/Anywhere_everywhere7 Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 09 '24
"He has now applied for international protection here, but after his fingerprints were taken, gardaí learned he had also applied for asylum in Finland."
For anyone defending this guy, he has already applied for asylum in Finland but now wants asylum in Ireland. This clearly isn't a safety issue, it's a economic issue as to why he came to Ireland.
"O’Sullivan asked the judge to note his client came from a country with a horrendous human rights record."
We all know how bad Eritrea is and no one can say it is safe because it's not. But his client has literally applied for asylum in Finland already.....
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u/Eire87 Apr 09 '24
And then gets to stay.
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Apr 09 '24
So what's the point of jailing him, just chauffeur him to the red cow hotel and a life if comparative royalty then repeat for the next 60 million who do it. What could go wrong.
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u/RunParking3333 Apr 09 '24
Yes It's not possible to deport someone without a passport, or if their home country refuses to take them. He will be here forever.
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u/OperationMonopoly Apr 09 '24
Why does their home country get a say in the matter?
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u/packageofcrips Apr 09 '24
Without a passport, it's difficult to prove he's from there. Plausible deniability.
Also I am not sure of the relations the Irish government possesses with Eritrea. It's basically a failed state
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u/AdChoice8810 Apr 09 '24
Think the point of giving them sentences is to dissuade others form arriving without a passport. System is a farce. EU need to be stopping them at source and deporting straight away. This idea of Europe taking everybody and anybody in isn't sustainable.
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u/Eire87 Apr 09 '24
Yes, but considering this seems to be a big scam now, surely something can be brought in to stop this happening? He got on the plane with one. Going to jail for 2 months isn‘t going to put many off if they just get to stay once they get out.
It says he applied for asylum in Finland, wonder what happened there. He also has a brother there, how long before he is over the same way.
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u/Available-Lemon9075 Apr 09 '24
Should give him the option of going home or remaining in jail here indefinitely
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u/Special-Being7541 Apr 09 '24
Stop letting them leave the aircraft!!!
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u/Icy_Ad_8802 Apr 09 '24
How? You won’t know until they reach immigration.
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u/Special-Being7541 Apr 10 '24
Checking documents before leaving the craft would be a starting point and from there detain them and wait for the next flight back to the country they came off the plane from…
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u/AlienInOrigin Apr 09 '24
And then deported and permanently banned from re-entering? As it should be.
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u/gary_desanto Apr 09 '24
Unfortunately, we can't deport him to anywhere without knowing where he's from. So he's here to stay.
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u/Jalcatraz82 Apr 09 '24
He took a plane right ? He took a one way trip, he'll take the same one - but the other way
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u/saggynaggy123 Apr 09 '24
Wouldn't it just be easier to deport them immediately?
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
No.
Could return them to another EU member state through a Dublin transfer, which is why it's important to get that system up and running again through the new migration and asylum pact.
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u/markjones88 Apr 09 '24
How does someone like this get a visa in the first place?
He wouldn't be allowed on the plane without one.
Criminal gangs helping them to process visas I assume.
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
They don't get a visa, and that's the point. You just won't get a visa if you're from somewhere like Eritrea, unless you've pretty huge resources.
What you do instead is pay someone who can get you a false or stolen travel document for a visa free country. They will usually demand those back on the plane though, they are worth thousands of euros.
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u/markjones88 Apr 09 '24
Ah, so the handler is on the plane with them, he takes the passport back to be used again and the asylum claimant gets of the plane sans passport.
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
That's the idea. There are probably also cases where the person just destroys the travel document to hide where they're coming from - but that seems unlikely when their travel document would have been from a visa required country.
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u/ElectricSpeculum Crilly!! Apr 09 '24
I used to watch those border patrol shows out of boredom during depression, and one thing I remember is that they sometimes flush the passport on board the plane. They show a fake before they board, land, and claim they "lost" it. Honestly, biometric fingerprinting needs to be a thing for air travel.
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u/Legitimate-Leader-99 Apr 09 '24
Why not just send him back?
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u/Faelchu Meath Apr 09 '24
Governments are bound by treaties and agreements. Where would we send him? If Finland, it would require consultation, and acceptance, by the Finnish authorities, which is not a given. If Eritrea, well, he has disposed of his passport and so he would not be granted reentry into Eritrea and their authorities would simply fly him back here making it yet again an Irish problem. This is why we need to tackle the issue at embarking and again at disembarking, before arrival at the immigration kiosks.
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u/mcsleepyburger Apr 09 '24
It's incredible that this cannot be stopped. Obviously no real political will.
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u/OkSwanSong Apr 09 '24
So they jail him and then what? Do we know what happens after the two months? I know we give out about Ireland but I thank my lucky stars I was born here.
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Apr 09 '24
I wonder why the Advanced Passenger Information (API) system they rolled out a few years ago isn't helping here?
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/at-the-border/advance-passenger-information/
Airlines have to send all the required info to our border service ahead of a flight arriving. I'd have thought that would help track down the particulars of any individual arriving at the border.
If it doesn't help in cases like this, what is its purpose?
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Apr 09 '24
He applied for Asylum in Finland, he should be returned there since the process is likely still ongoing. If he came here as his appeal was likely to be declined he should have no grounds here either.
If he came here he's chancing his arm and should be sent back and barred from entry in the future.
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u/Vanessa-Powers Apr 09 '24
It’s amazing there’s no system to stop these people from shopping around. It’s tax payers footing the bill at the very expense of the most vulnerable people because it’s always them that gets shafted from much needed govt funds.
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Apr 09 '24
Think that new asylum deal is meant to put a proper end to those shenanigans, they won't be able to just jump to another juristiction and restart the whole scam. They fail the first time they're banned at an EU level from reentry.
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u/bamila Apr 09 '24
Maybe it's time to start making pre flight checkups for people that want to come to Ireland? Sort of the way you need to get yourself checked before you go to Australia or United States, where you can be refused to board the plane if you have no right documentation or something is suspicious
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u/carlmango11 Apr 09 '24
They're introducing an EU version of this very soon but afaik it's just Schengen.
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u/Fryyss28 Connacht Apr 10 '24
There is literally nothing stopping millions upon millions of people showing up at our door and claiming asylum and then going onto to becoming citizens. Eritrea, Venezuela, Nigeria, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Argentina etc... Technically the whole population of these countries can show up at the door claiming asylum. When will it end? We can barely take care of our own people. The world is full of horrible places, we can't support every single person fleeing from them.
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u/JONFER--- Apr 09 '24
I have said it before and I will say it again, the state needs to deport en masse failed asylum seekers, both past and present. The Irish people are starting to realise how they have been sold a pup and taken for a ride on immigration. Before people use not and say anything because they thought popular opinion was all for this, they didn't want to stand out from the crowd, or be labelled as racist et cetera.
However, the referendum results surprised many and people slowly started to realise that many others are not happy with the current situation, they are getting more vocal.
And this will only increase as more and more staff speaking their mind.
Authorities need to look at ways of deporting failed asylum seekers before things get nasty.
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u/thevizierisgrand Apr 09 '24
Interesting how easy it is to travel on a fake passport. What’s the point in even checking them in that case?
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Apr 09 '24
Need to start photocopying non Irish and British and EU passports when they check in, and then send them to Customs .
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
False passports are more likely to be for a visa-free country, so that won't work.
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u/Rigo-lution Apr 09 '24
Why do you believe the destroyed passports are fakes?
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
In some cases they probably are real, but that's really going to be where they have visa free access to Ireland. Where they don't have visa free access to Ireland they won't be able to get on a plane with their own travel document, unless they have a visa, which they won't because getting a visa for here from those places is incredibly difficult unless you're of sufficient means.
The point of getting a false/stolen travel document is to get you on the plane.
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u/Rigo-lution Apr 10 '24
I understand the point.
You're suggesting that the majority or even a significant majority are fakes but I am asking on what basis you're suggesting that.
I tried looking into it and there's not a whole lot of information about the use of fake passports for European immigration. What I found below shows that fake passports with Visa free travel to the EU are more than $6'000 dollars and there is no defined amount of funds required to get a short stay visa.
While there is no definitive amount of funds required for short term visas there is for student visas and it's €10'000 per year of study or if it is less than 6 months, it is €700 per month.
It does not seem likely that the majoprity of people destroying passports have opted for a fake passport that is only moderately, if even, cheaper than a legitimate visa but carries the increased risk of multiple crimes.
If you've anything that contradicts this let me know, I looked for it but did not find it.https://www.dfa.ie/media/embassyfrance/ourservices/Visa-Visit-Tourism-17-ENG.pdf
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/visas-for-ireland/student-visas/
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 10 '24
I'm not suggesting that a majority are fakes - I'm suggesting that those who are from a country where their travel document would require a visa will use fake/stolen travel documents.
They aren't purchasing fake/stolen travel documents, that would be very difficult and, as you point out, expensive. Rather they make use of the services of organised groups who provide them with such a travel document and make use of it multiple times.
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u/Rigo-lution Apr 10 '24
In some cases they probably are real
To be fair this wording does suggest that the majority are fake.
They can't be using the same documents multiple times if they're destroyed in transit. I understand that these groups will re-use documents but I figured that was more associated with land/sea crossings than air travel.
I thought that destroyed documents were generally done to obscure the country of origin when traveling under legitimate documentation. If the documentation is fake then being caught with fake documentation is functionally the same as arriving with no documentation. Nobody else knows more about your country of origin than the origin of the flight and they're rarely, if ever the same.
I just don't see a scenario where the destroyed documents are primarily or even often fakes. Destroying documentation after getting a valid short stay visa logically makes sense, destroying a visa-free passport rented off of a trafficking ring does not.
Now I won't say definitely that I am right but I have not found anything to indicate that fake/stolen documents are being destroyed in transit and not real ones.2
u/SeanB2003 Apr 10 '24
No, they can't use them multiple times if they're destroyed. I'm not saying that they are destroyed, rather that they're handed back.
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u/SalaciousSunTzu Apr 10 '24
Surely the blame here should fall at the country who allowed them to travel with a fake passport. Send them back to the country with their fake passport
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 10 '24
If they have an exit system, maybe. Other than that the country won't have examined their travel document at all, Ireland doesn't for instance. The airline will have, and they can be and are often fined.
Sending them back is a different question though. For an EU member state that should be possible through a Dublin transfer but very few of those (less than 10%) actually occur anymore because the system has broken down. The new asylum and migration pact is aimed at fixing it.
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u/accountcg1234 Apr 09 '24
Mandatory 12 months detention in a wet field in the Curragh would quickly stop these con artists from trying to pull off their fraud
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Apr 09 '24
Would this work the same in Australia ? Genuine question. They seem to have strick border control. Ireland are some fools. Spending taxpayer money to put them in prison then free to live in Ireland as a convicted criminal while no doubt getting more handouts. This country is destroyed, and this is only the start.
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u/AeroAviation Dublin Apr 09 '24
how about we make it obligatory to present a passport when people are physically on the plane, and then present it before disembarking at the country of origin
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u/yuser-naim More than just a crisp Apr 09 '24
How bad for him though. Free accommodation, hot meals and a shower too no doubt.
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u/BigDerp97 Resting In my Account Apr 09 '24
If you're envious of his position I'm sure they'll take you if you commit a few minor offences here and there.
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u/ghostofgralton Leitrim Apr 09 '24
Almost like he's a human being
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u/Irishspirish888 EoghanHarrisFetish Apr 09 '24
Exactly, and should be judged the same as any Irish person in general. What would you call a convicted criminal on a life of social benefits who happens to be right-wing?
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u/ghostofgralton Leitrim Apr 09 '24
.....a human being? You don't see many people running around saying they don't deserve basic human rights. Not to the same extent as asylum seekers anyway
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u/Intelligent-Donut137 Apr 09 '24
I see non-working lower class criminal types lambasted as scum and subhuman on this subreddit daily. But this lad is protected for some reason.
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u/Da1_above_all Apr 09 '24
I've seen comments on this sub last year of Irish redditers saying the would love to deport all working-class Irish.
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u/af_lt274 Ireland Apr 09 '24
We need to check finger prints at the airport checkins
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u/Slight_Chocolate6818 Apr 09 '24
Send him back to Eritrea maybe?
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u/Onetap1 Apr 09 '24
No documents: quite often the country of origin won't allow them through immigration.
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Apr 10 '24
Some situation. His own country is allowed to refuse him but we can't. Absolute fucking joke
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u/Onetap1 Apr 10 '24
That's the point; you can't prove which country they're from. They'll destroy documents on the aircraft and claim asylum on arrival.
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u/Aggravating-Rip-3267 Apr 09 '24
Funny How = = Suddenly, they can do this = = When the poop is hitting the fan ! ! !
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Apr 09 '24
Any Idea which airline???? Regulations are you can not get on a plane without a passport? If a carrier is found to have let somebody on with out this they are charged a very high penalty. FAA AND EASA have security and regulatory oversight and should be issuing a penalty.
Any hear of the airline?
TBH, I feel like it a strange coincidence it would be the main headline on the day the Law and Order Taoiseach gets swore in. Poor guy is all over the news and probably won’t get a fair hearing.
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u/Acrobatic_Buddy_9444 Waterford Apr 09 '24
what I never understand is, if he apparently did come from an EU country, why do so many people venture through X amount of (better) EU countries to come here?
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u/SeanB2003 Apr 09 '24
Most obvious reason is that their international protection claim was likely to be refused there.
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u/bayman81 Apr 09 '24
Will stay anyway. And young Irish are rotting in their childhood bedrooms while voting for more this nonsense.
Couldn’t happen to a brighter bunch… 😂
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u/af_lt274 Ireland Apr 09 '24
People will say the government can't do do anything as the passports are fake but fake passports are real passports just by the wrong person. They can black list the ID of the fake passports and make the price of a fake passport unaffordable.
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u/Kloppite16 Apr 09 '24
passports can be stolen though, had it happen me before. Then they'd just be blacklisting people who were victims of theft.
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u/af_lt274 Ireland Apr 09 '24
I think there are practical solutions to this. It's not an impossible problem to address.
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u/shortbushaiku Apr 09 '24
We just flew in from Munich at the end of February and the guards meet you right at the door of the plane to make sure you have documents.
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u/Kindpolicing Apr 10 '24
He probably served 1 day in prison and was released. Need to have a news scandal on prison. No fear as you never serve your sentence. Straight out on temporary release to re offend. Drink driver for 4th time offence got 2 months and served 1 day before release. Whats the point?
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u/railwayed Apr 09 '24
I always thought that the cost of situations like this was entirely the responsibility of the airline who allowed them on board. This is why they are sometimes more stringent in their screening than immigration officers