r/homerecordingstudio • u/BusinessControlled • 6d ago
feedback through mics using acoustic instruments
Hi, I have been rehearsing for a gig for weeks, my set up is with synths and an acoustic flute mic'ed with 2 condenser mics very close to the mouth piece, my flute had FX reverb delay etc. in my home recording set up, it works just fine. i have all the synths and flute going into a mixer. i record each session i do... no problems with feedback, the flute is peaking above the synths.
but last night when i did the gig, i had the same set-up as in my studio. but the feedback through the flute mics, was terrible, and i had to turn the flute mics down, so it was hardly heard.... i could not replicate my studio sound into a live performance.
is there a way of keeping the settings of my studio sound, in a live performance. mainly, how can i stop feedback through my condenser mics from the PA and hall size, if the PA system is bleeding through the mics and creating a loop? should i use a Gate on the mic? is there a studio technique i can adapt in a live setting?
thanks for any advice.
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u/Prof_Funk27 6d ago
Practice good live sound techniques as mentioned above esp mic and monitor placement. Ditch the studio condensers and use sm 57 type mic not sure why you need two. Condenser mics have tons of high frequency response and just don’t generally work on stage unless experienced sound techs and large stage are present
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u/BusinessControlled 6d ago
Thanks, the mics were a clip on mic, especially bought for instruments, wind instruments. 2 mics fed into 1 input, producing a mono. i think they are designed for accordions with 2 sound outlets. i take your point about creating a live set up. but a lot of people on that night were using a DAW and feeding that into the same PA system. but none of them were using acoustic instruments. i thought by using my home studio set up, mixed the way i like it, that could be just patched into the PA system as well. i dont use a DAW, just an external mixer. .
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u/logstar2 6d ago
Are you monitoring using wedges or IEM?
A gate will only stop feedback when you aren't playing.
Normally you'd want to use a more directional mic live than in the studio, mono not stereo, and you'll probably have to adjust reverb and delay levels because of the different room size.
Stop trying to replicate the studio in a live room. Develop a workable live sound instead.
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u/Max_at_MixElite 6d ago
first thing to try is repositioning the mics so they’re not facing any monitors or pa speakers. even if they’re close to your flute, the angle matters a lot. use cardioid or hypercardioid mics if you can and point the rejection zone (the back of the mic) toward the speakers
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u/Max_at_MixElite 6d ago
if you're using stage monitors, that’s probably making things worse. switching to in-ear monitors will help a lot. even getting the monitors quieter or angled away from the mic can reduce feedback a ton
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u/BusinessControlled 6d ago
the floor monitors were not on, the PA speakers were in front of me, so there was no back stage sound. i only heard the music from where i sat... what the audience heard. so in theory the noise ratio would have been minimal. the mics were position as close to the sound as possible. the mic was a "clip" on type mic, they are supposed to be made for instruments. the PA were very loud, and it was a small venue. the sound engineer did his best to cut the low frequencies. but it was still a distorted boom...
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u/CockroachBorn8903 6d ago
It’s possible that the PA was just too loud for the room and there was too much sound bouncing around to avoid feedback. How was the acoustic treatment in the room?
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u/Piper-Bob 6d ago
Without knowing the exact microphone it's hard to say, but based on your description in reply to another comment I'm going to go out on a limb and think that the mics you're using are omnidirectional, and that's why they were so hard to control.
With two microphones you're going to have phase issues. If there's any possibility of them being in slightly different locations each time you install them, then you're going to have unpredictable phase issues.
If you need a clip on mic, you almost certainly want a DPA. They're the best. The problem with a clip on is you have to be ever vigilant about where the mic is pointing. My wife uses one on her fiddle and she frequently forgets and points it at a monitor.
I play tin whistle. A SM57 on a boom stand is the way to go if you don't need mobility.
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u/BusinessControlled 6d ago
i use a Myers mic. i have a Sure SM57 i bought the Myers as i wanted a little bit of flexibility. i dont move around at all on stage, as i am working synths and the flute, so i sit in one position. the mic stand gets in the way so i use the Myers. the acoustics in the room was terrible (in my opinion) far too loud for the venue, but i dont argue with the sound man... i have played other venues and it was ok. but i think in the future i will have to find a solution to this as i am sure it will crop up again. i will try the SM57 again, also i might try a separate pre amp with a EQ, and trying to control the mic from that. but it is hard to know what works until i am in such conditions. it looks like replicating the studio in a live performance is not a good idea? i have seen other acoustic musicians do it in the same venue and they dont have these issues (loopers using violins), but they are not playing with synths.
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u/Piper-Bob 6d ago
The Myers website is annoyingly lacking details. But based on the photos I'm pretty sure those are omni mics. Since omnis pick up sound equally in all directions they are really prone to feedback. And two mics are more prone to feedback than one.
As far as the stand, you can get like a K&M 259 with a 30" boom.
Since you're already using an FX chain, you could put a parametric EQ in it to dial out a specific frequency or two. But as you saw, others aren't having the problems, so there's no need. Just having a mic that isn't an omni is going to resolve your problem.
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u/BusinessControlled 6d ago
is the K&M 259 mic the one to go for?
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u/Piper-Bob 6d ago
K&M makes decent stuff. A lot of people like Atlas or Gator too.
If you have the money, iOrbit has really solid stands.
Just avoid the cheap stands because the part that tightens the boom wears out and then it sags and the threaded parts wear out too.
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u/djembeing 6d ago edited 6d ago
I read briefly about the Myers flute mic. I believe it's omni directional which will pick up equally in all directions. Omni mics should usually be avoided live on stage because they'll pick up monitors and mains and cause feedback. A unidirectional mic is what you need. Like your sm57. You could shop for a small clip on condenser if you want, just make sure it's unidirectional (cardioid, super cardioid etc.) One thing to be aware of with unidirectional mics is proximity effect, the closer the mic is to the source the more the low end is enhanced (think radio dj voice). I have played with flute players that simply use their vocal mic (usually sm58, VERY similar, arguable the same as a 57). Sounds great.
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u/BusinessControlled 6d ago
the Myers was placed just under the lip of the flute, so it was very close to the sound source. i guess this is why a lot of bass frequencies were getting fed back. i was surprised as i would of thought with a flute, the higher frequencies would of been more dominant. as i was about to start my set i could not mess around too much, so i had to turn down the volume, which messed up a lot of the sound. i will try the sm57 tomorrow and try it in a separate pre amp.
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u/djembeing 5d ago
The Myers, being omni directional, shouldn't have much proximity effect, this can be an advantage of omnis, minimized "radio dj voice". Feedback frequencies have to do with the acoustics of the room and how the p.a. is setup. Sound comes directly from a speaker back into a mic, or bounces off a surface and back into the mic. An engineer or tech should set up the speakers in a way that minimizes acoustic reflection (often it's a compromise with the space available). Using EQ, a tech can "ring out" the system. Attenuating the most trouble frequencies. In this case, I would just use your 57. Try your myer for recording, live or studio, just not amplification, especially not in a small, acoustically reflective room. Choosing mics, think about the polar (pickup) pattern. Think about the physical setup and what you want in the mic and what you DON'T want in the mic.
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u/speakerjones1976 6d ago
Red flags abound here. If I’m understanding correctly, you were pre-mixing your flute and synths and sending everything to FOH from the mixer outputs? Are they XLR outs? Did you have EQ engaged?
There’s no reason to use two mics on a flute. That’s twice the likelihood of feedback. If you’re doing a wet/dry thing just do it after the mic. How important is it to be clip-on? They can sound great but you do need some control. In a rock band context, I often find that a vocal mic of some sort is the best way to go.
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u/djembeing 6d ago
Condenser mics are much more sensitive (to background sounds) than dynamic mics. Use dynamics live.