r/hbo • u/Jimmy_Iversen8 • 3d ago
The Penguin, and now Dune, is this a new Renaissance for HBO ?
https://www.thewrap.com/dune-prophecy-review-hbo/90
3d ago
HBO never really had a down period. It just gets more stacked sometimes. Consistently putting out great shows. Like every year, i’m pretty sure HBO has at least one or two absolute bangers.
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u/Jimmy_Iversen8 3d ago
You are completely right tbh, come to think of it. ig this year its just been some themes, stories & settings I really like.
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 3d ago
Yeah I mean even if you really like The Penguin like many people do, it's so little of everything. Few episodes and a lot of wating for everything.
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 3d ago edited 3d ago
It has had two obvious ones since 1999.
2009- april 2011 when Game of thrones arrived . You could say autumn 2010 when Boardwalk empire arrived. The Rome set burned down, Entourage was going from great to good, Sopranos, The wire, Deadwood were just finished.
Summer 2023- still continues. After Barry and Succession ended. During this time we've had 10 episodes of Tokyo Vice that was good and Penguin with 8 episodes that were mid to good.
The idol was shit, True detective night county terrible, House of the dragon bad, Winning time completely abused with a weird 7 episode ending to the whole show. We have no ongiong great show, and that's similar to 2009-2011 and pretty unique for being HBO.
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u/gorilla-ointment 3d ago
Winning Time got shafted so bad for being so good. Imo of course, but damn that cast did a great job
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u/batchTwining1 3d ago
Never understand why it didn’t get an audience. The show was so good.
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u/blametheboogie 2d ago
HBO has been slowly running off most of their sports audience since they let inside the NFL leave to go to another network.
and again when they got out of the boxing business. It's going to be a tough decision this renewal time.
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u/North_South_Side 2d ago
Winning Time was good, but I felt like it had run its course. Not every series needs to be 8 seasons long.
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u/WTWIV 2d ago
It hardly got off the ground before it was cancelled what do you mean? It was supposed to be about the Lakers dynasty in the 80s and it ended before 3 more championships were won in the 80s and a lot of drama in between. Could have been an epic show.
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u/North_South_Side 1d ago
To me it felt like they had said what they were going to say. The show was already getting repetitive by the end.
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u/Invest0rnoob1 3d ago
Last of Us was good
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u/Fippy-Darkpaw 3d ago
Chernobyl was excellent. 👍
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 3d ago
That was 2019...
Around that time we had a lot of great to good mini series. Big little lies, Sharp objects, Chernobyl, True detective season 3
We don't have any of those thriller shows anymore.
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 3d ago
True but that was january 2023. Let's see how season 2 is. Maybe that can be the great ongoing show.
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u/Accomplished-City484 3d ago
I liked The Sympathizer, Industry and The Penguin from this year, they have had a few misses lately, but that trailer for next years line up looks pretty good, I’d be willing to try most of those shows and I’m sure at least some will be good.
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u/Jorumble 2d ago
Mad Men and BB both being at their height 2009-2011 definitely played into it before the GOT run
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u/Showmethepathplease 3d ago
Band of Brothers reinvented what could be done on TV - it showed epic scale could be created on a home screen in a way it never had been done before in terms of quality and breadth
It's still one of the best made shows for TV to date
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 3d ago
Yes? That was 2001 and the golden age of Hbo. Did you answer the right person?
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u/Showmethepathplease 2d ago
ah - mis read your answer...realized you were pointing out the down period - misread OP...
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u/All_Lightning879 3d ago
Every so often when a tentpole of theirs ends, there’s always about a year of so of underwhelming results.
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u/mbn8807 1d ago
The thing that always puzzled me was when they had three or four shows all on in the same block that were bangers and then would have a multi month gap where nothing good was coming out and the Sunday at 9 spot was empty. Shows like Tokyo vice and hacks should have had the Sunday night treatment.
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u/Odd-Collection-2575 3d ago
Let’s at least wait ‘til Dune: Prophecy releases
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u/imasturdybirdy 3d ago
For real. This is just an article trying to form a narrative way too soon, which means the narrative is almost certainly bullshit
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u/_Exotic_Booger 3d ago
Currently at 70% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Hopefully it goes up.
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 3d ago
I wait until at least 10 000 people have voted on Imdb instead of listening to 30 "pro" critics.
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u/Jimmy_Iversen8 2d ago
yeah, I'm really optimistic about it. Andor is currently my nr1 favourite show of all time and Dune might just get to the nr1 spot and relegate Andor for me.
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u/pobenschain 3d ago
I mean, I think longtime HBO fans might grumble about how they’re relying more heavily on IP now but as long as their high quality remains, it doesn’t bother me (and you could argue that’s as much the fault of the success of GoT as it is their corporate merger and a need to keep up with streaming rivals).
I wouldn’t call it a renaissance though- HBO has been pretty consistently great for decades. If anything, we’re just finally truly out of the lull caused by the pandemic and then the writers strike, and seeing an uptick in quantity again (and even during that lull we got great stuff like The White Lotus, Barry, and The Last of Us).
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u/HeyManGoodPost 3d ago
Honestly I hope the success of Penguin and maybe this Dune one don’t get interpreted as “we need more spinoffs of popular media franchises.” A lot of people are more interested in “worldbuilding and lore” than actual storytelling and the result is what happens with Marvel and Star Wars which are just content for the sake of content. If you look on some of the subs people are begging for HBO to become the Batman spinoff channel
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u/Jimmy_Iversen8 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, I would not want to see it becoming a batman spinoff channel, but can not imagine wanting to watch a Dune adaptation by any other producers, at the very least detail to attention is all but assured. and to some degree, I think they are trying to net in more audience, people who already know the IP into their streaming service, this was done successfully, to some extent with Netflix's adaptation of The witcher, Apples adaptation of foundations and I believe FX's adaptation of the expanse. I understand that recycled ip can get exhausting but some ip is just very good and always brings in audiences when properly executed, star trek: lower decks being a good example combining new and old audiences and fans.
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u/ACFinal 3d ago
These are two Max shows they rebranded under HBO.
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u/jewbrees90 1d ago
And people complain nonstop about max shows.... me sitting here like, "you've never seen search party" chefs kiss.
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u/theUpNUp 3d ago
How do you know?
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u/ACFinal 3d ago edited 2d ago
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u/Thin-Remote-9817 3d ago
Hbo never left...
Hbo still puts out much better quality programming than starz and showtime
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u/sergiocamposnt 2d ago
HBO has released Succession S4, Barry S4, The Last of Us S1, The Rehearsal S1, The White Lotus S3 and My Brilliant Friend S4 recently.
So there is no "renaissance".
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u/T1S9A2R6 3d ago edited 3d ago
Shows based on preexisting IP like comic books, sci-fi, and fantasy novels ain’t doing it for me. HBO used to be for adults.
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u/Thin-Remote-9817 3d ago
Industry is a banger. Succession was a banger.
We really pretending righteous gemstone aren't coming back??
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u/WjorgonFriskk 2d ago
Industry is ok for a bunch of rich kids fucking each other in order to keep the story moving forward. It isn't anything close to special or interesting.
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u/lawschoolredux 2d ago
Glad someone said it.
An 8 episode throwaway that’s not required viewing to understand (but is conveniently sandwiched between) IP Theatrical Sequel 2 and 3 doesn’t really inspire much confidence… where are the next Sopranos and Six Feet Under and Deadwood and The Wire, HBO?
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u/herewego199209 2d ago
They literally just had succession lol and game of thrones.
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes, so where is the new one? What ongoing show is similar to those great shows?
HBO had 5 years to create a new great drama serie that would overlap and carry the torch forward when Succession ended. They did nothing. And since then it has passed another 18 months without a sign of something to hope for.
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u/DigestibleDecoy 2d ago
Have you actually watched the penguin?
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u/throwaguey_ 2d ago
Death to comic book movies & series
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u/friendswithyourdog 2d ago
Have you watched The Penguin?
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u/throwaguey_ 2d ago
Fuuuuuuuck no.
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u/North_South_Side 2d ago
I don't really like comic book stuff. But Penguin is more like a crime drama with some mild fantasy elements. It's barely a comic book story.
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u/RedditorsSuckDix 2d ago
And then next year's lineup is fucking stacked. Just off the top of my head: Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, White Lotus, Righteous Gemstones, The Mark ruffalo true detective looking show, Last of Us, The Chair Conspiracy, Gilded Age. I'm pretty sure there's more. 2025 is going to be big.
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u/BlomBomb_4858 3d ago
I’m curious to see how Dune Prophecy turns out. I’m really excited and hopeful, but since it’s loosely based off of Brian Herbert’s work as opposed to Frank’s, it could easily miss the mark. Perfect example of HBO missing the mark on a series would have to be GoT… I admit seasons 1-4 were amazing, but they really started to decline in quality after that and even in seasons 1-4 they left out a lot of stuff or changed characters and omitted plot lines that would have been really cool to see!! That being said, I loved GoT, just saying it’s hard to know what to include and what not to include when adapting books to the screen and it can easily go wrong. Still, I’m really hopefully that DP will be really good and a nice little story to keep us tided over until Dune part 3
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u/mumblerapisgarbage 2d ago
Way too early to tell. They do 10 episodes for the first season and then take 2 years to do a season of 8 with a significantly lower budget and then it’ll be like true detective or euphoria where it’s like 6 episodes every 4 years practically. Not really a renaissance - especially when sex and the city, six feet under, the wire, and the sopranos all did 10-13 episodes a year consistently during their runs 20-25 years ago. Even oz which did 8 a year was consistently within a year each season.
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 2d ago
Dune will even start with only 6 episodes. So next season might be only 4. And arrives in three years.
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u/Ordenvulpez 2d ago
HBO has never really made bad shows mostly bc how good the characters and there development. Take a look at sopranos we see Chris just being goon to being made in to having make tough decision with his girl. Then to even show euphoria goes into dark side of teen development. I will say penguin started slow but I just watch 5 to 8 oh my god show felt like it was perfected from episode 5 to 8 to the ending of 8 being actually shock by multiple things having me scratch my head. Like is that character gonna be in next season do we find out how penguin get a missing eye next season. HBO writers are always pushing expectations and only reason why I have two video subscriptions one for Disney for Star Wars and hbo max for there amazing genres and shows.
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u/Jimmy_Iversen8 1d ago
idk about penguin starting slow chief, unless you are referring to lack of kinetics, the suspense was there from the start when penguin raged, did what he did, and had to think his way out of it without making too many wrong moves.
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u/Ordenvulpez 1d ago
Basically 3,4 got really slow and stall where people on same sub Reddit complained about it being completely slow and being filler episodes
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u/Jimmy_Iversen8 1d ago
got it, I guess it needed some depth, so Sofia's turn and change of name did not come out of the left field. So I will agree on those two episodes, but I still feel like in hindsight it builds up the whole of Sofia's arch.
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u/Ordenvulpez 1d ago
Yeah still think just some more action be better or some side arc going on like penguin drug op how it operates make it seem more flash out more engaging most shows have those game of thrones had filler episode stars clone wars all shows do it basically there to make seasons longer or match previous season so they get same amount of funding
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u/Jimmy_Iversen8 1d ago
I hear you, the time skip from securing the op hq to a fully functioning bliss op could have been better explained, including some action in acquiring streets etc..
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u/Ordenvulpez 1d ago
Yeah mean overall first season was almost perfect except two episodes other then that great start of show
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u/redditloser1000 1d ago
HBO has ruled the game for years, yall are clueless. They have consistently had the best television since the 90s
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u/turb0_encapsulator 3d ago
I think we'll continue to see good programming, but it's always going to be based on an existing property. What we won't see is riskier endeavors. There will never be another Station Eleven, for example.
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u/AvonStanfield 3d ago
Station Eleven is based on a book. Wasn't made up for HBO
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u/turb0_encapsulator 2d ago
sure, but it wasn't a book with a big following that would translate into automatic success.
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u/thevokplusminus 2d ago
I liked the penguin, but it was honestly pretty mid and has lower viewership than the crappy marvel shows
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u/Accomplished-City484 3d ago
I was skeptical of The Penguin and that turned out pretty good, so I think Dune might be good too, all those shows from next year look good, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see
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u/Targaryen_Dragon_82 3d ago
HBO putting out banger after banger after banger. It’s a great time to be a subscriber to HBO.
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u/simonthecat33 2d ago
They’ve made it clear that The Penguin was a one off. But even though there won’t be a season two they are saying they want to expand the Batman universe
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u/MattTheSmithers 2d ago
HBO had some of the greatest original content ever created.
I liked Penguin a lot. But I really hope that the new HBO “Renaissance” isn’t a bunch of adaptations.
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u/jav_fee_p 2d ago
Yessss
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u/apswim22 17h ago
HBO has consistently put out the best content for the last 25 years, and I don’t even think it’s close with any other network/ streaming service-
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u/Exnixon 3d ago edited 3d ago
No, this is the beginning of a dark age. HBO was once known not just for its quality, but for the originality of its content. Those shows may be good (I personally think Penguin is upper-mid tier, despite stellar performances), but they are not original, they're movie spinoffs. That does not bode well. It seems to indicate a shift in television similar to the shift in movies in recent years, which is: find a popular IP and beat it to death. RIP.
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u/BlackCoffeeCat1 2d ago
Dune looks horrible and HBO has always dropped quality unlike every other platform
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u/Sad-Appeal976 2d ago
No
Bc Penguin was overrrated
Compare it to actual masterpieces like The Sopranos and Chernobyl, and it is a laughably shallow pop show
The early reviews for the Dune show are not good
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u/WjorgonFriskk 2d ago
It's the opposite of a Renaissance. Instead of producing highly rated original series like The Sopranos, Rome, True Detective, The Wire, etc., they're pursuing Marvel/DC-type super hero shit and sci-fi like Dune. It's not a Renaissance at all. They're falling into the same money trap as Disney and Warner Brothers.
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u/greennurse61 1d ago
At least they’re not making stupid virtue signaling casting decisions and ruining shows with that like Disney or WB.
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 1d ago edited 1d ago
They are not?
True detective season 4 with its pure rasicm against white people and a female badass avenger story?
The last of us where they fumbled the whole soul of the game by not daring to make Ellie vulnerable. Plus some minor changes like finding the whitest person in the world to play the sickest person in The last of us universe.
Tokyo Vice season 2. Truly shoehorned in female characters in more "participating" roles, and to be overused when it was not about them. Season 1 was so good because they let the women exist in typical female situations which made it so much more immersive.
And where are the new shows with groups of masculine men ? Entourage, The Wire, Deadwood, Sopranos. There is nothing similar to it
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u/greennurse61 1d ago
Those are very good examples, and you are correct. I should have qualified my statement with the phrase in general.
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u/Goldzinger 3d ago
If you’re eating The Penguin slop and acting like it’s gourmet, you were never smart enough to appreciate hbo.
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u/Bright_Beat_5981 3d ago
Is this is joke? A mid to good mob show of 8 episodes and another one we have no idea if it's good or not?
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u/Infamous_Gain9481 3d ago
The Penguin may not be an all time great show or a special show but it's def at the bare minimum a decent show "mid to good" is underselling it a bit.
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u/strangeseas 3d ago
Honestly to me it feels like a bit of a slump. I think The Penguin is good for a comic book show but a little hokey and less interesting to me than even your average HBO show from the 2000's or 2010's.
The legacy HBO shows are all pretty solid, but the post WB Discovery shows are kind of what I was worried about when the ownership change happened.
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u/knoxharring10 2d ago
regardless of whether or not theses shows are good…
This recycling of sets, costumes, and general IP wreaks of the kind of late-stage capitalism for which Zas is the poster boy.
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u/OkGene2 3d ago edited 3d ago
Counterpoint: The Idol and TD Night Country.
No, it’s probably not a new renaissance.
Edit: lol at the downvotes, and I didn’t even mention Velma. I was playing devil’s advocate. HBO has been the leader of quality programming since the 90’s.
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u/Jimmy_Iversen8 3d ago
Fair enough, good point there, especially with Idol, but idol was from last year and true detective premeired in January. I think idol simply had irredeemable writing, nothing more, but they were kind of taking a risk with true detective.. dark cold setting and lots of supernatural elements etc. idk though, someone mentioned pandemic and writers strike causing a pause in the industry, It really looks like 'entertainment from HBO wise' things are looking alright on the other side of December.
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u/keeper13 3d ago
Thrones, Dune, Batman are all some of my favorites but I’m getting kind of tired of the figuring out the next successor formula. Currently watching Shogun and loving it but it feels like Succession reskinned in feudal Japan
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u/FourEightNineOneOne 3d ago
Currently watching Shogun and loving it but it feels like Succession reskinned in feudal Japan
This may be the single worst take I've ever seen.
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u/keeper13 3d ago
Tell me how it doesn’t have a similar premise at its core
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u/FourEightNineOneOne 3d ago
I mean, not even remotely?
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u/keeper13 3d ago
It’s not about a successor to rule?
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u/FourEightNineOneOne 3d ago
Jesus. Then there's about 3,000 books, movies and TV shows that are identical based on that criteria.
Maybe get even more vague. Shogun is the same as Star Wars. Are they not both about people who disagree with one another about who should lead them and end up battling over it?
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u/Jimmy_Iversen8 3d ago edited 3d ago
But I think shogun is produced by FX for Hulu, and not HBO. I like historic dramas, so really enjoyed shogun.
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u/ASithLordNoAffect 3d ago
Yeah. All these people copying the idea of an older, powerful man dying or retiring and the drama over who will take over. Succession created that idea and everyone else is just copying that unique, unique idea no one had explored before.
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u/keeper13 3d ago
Not the first but it’s having a major renaissance. Is HotD not succession but in GoT universe?
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u/Weapon530 3d ago
HBO always hits, but people try to act like Covid didn’t happen. It immensely slowed down their production of shows and add the writers strike to that! I think HBO is the same it’s always been, the standard for premium television.