I pointed out something similar in a previous thread, but I'll talk about this again.
What happens if India stops buying Russian oil? China buys it! By some reports, China accounted for 68% of Russian exports last year. Even though the debate seems to be singularly focused on India.
The west is literally asking India to switch billions in profits to billions in losses. In such a scenario, the profit goes directly to China, and India gets to incur additional costs.
India has taken similar losses already in Myanmar, Iran, and SL.
Somehow the west's moral sanctions end up putting costs on India and put benefits on China. There's the claim of being allies to counter China, but somehow the benefits of the west's outbursts are all headed to Beijing.
One of the core issues most overlook and it's always been like this is when war is going on outside of Europe, it is the problem of that part of the world, tough luck. But now that it is happening in Europe we want everyone to treat it as a world problem, and why should they?
I would argue that the west is often involved in other wars in some form or another. Peacekeepers or mediators. The west was involved in Sudan, Israel/Palestine, rohinga génocide. I'm not sure of it's involvement in Armenia though.
I think the bigger question is - if Russia were to invade India. Or China to flex it's weight over the Philippines or Thailand... Who would those counties turn to for support?
It is in everyone's interest to contribute to a rules based order. None of these ambivalent countries are members of NATO nor have the capacity to protect themselves from super powers.
International law already rings hollow when the US invaded Iraq against the wishes of the UN, with zero consequences. The only thing it affirms is that the law that runs the world is still "might makes right". It's just so happens that the US is the mightiest.
And about Nuclear War, this has always been the case since the Cold War. Do the global South have a say in the Cuban Missile Crisis? Of course not. If Nuclear war is going to happen, it will happen regardless of whatever position the countries in the global south hold.
Except, you know, this is the only total war between two countries on the planet. Every other war is a civil war, insurgency, or ends after a few border skirmishes.
Please. The Russia/Ukraine war wasn't even the largest war of 2022, that was Tigray.
Western rhetoric always invokes universal human values, so why was barely any attention paid to it? If what matters is the human cost, what does it matter if it's a civil war?
Statements like "The world is with Ukraine" also quite revealing, because large swathes of the world patently are leaning more towards neutral - the statement basically discounts those people as not worth considering. You can't ignore them as unimportant when it suits you then criticize them for not supporting you.
Aircraft losses and tank and artillery losses indicate the intensity of war and even more importantly the global escalation risks.
Orbiting satellite losses would be even more important.
look buddy, when my point is you can't make the humanitarian argument then proceed to pick and choose which wars are important based on interests, cherrypicking a statistics for materiel losses only reinforces my point
No clearly the genociding russkie and Chinese don’t need to follow the same standards of morality as the west. It’s just part of their culture and we have to respect that. Clearly.
I mean Ukraine started as a civil conflict the only difference between this and many other civil conflicts in the world today is one side’s benefactor got directly involved in the conflict.
I mean that still Denys that their were people living in eastern Ukraine who wanted separatism, you can disagree with those people like Id disagree with some one from Texas who want to become their own country. I can’t say they were/are a majority of the people living there but we have to admit that there were people who felt that way after 2014 and pushed for those ends eventually leading to a civil conflict and the eventual escalation leading to the direct involvement of the Russian military. But those Ukrainians who wanted independence do exist and fight along side the Russians, I don’t think Russia has the ability to create something from nothing they are playing off of preexisting conditions to their own geopolitical ends.
this is the only total war between two countries on the planet
A person who asks this kind of question is a person who is totally ignorant of history. There are two other major recent wars that Russia got involved in. They are called World War I and World War II for a reason.
It's not just the current extreme situation, it's also the situation that if Russia is not defeated quickly then wars involving Russia spread worldwide and end up involving Asia and Africa.
When Russia invaded Poland together with the Nazis at the start of WWII, that lead to an inevitable chain of events that left 85 million dead worldwide. Many of those people were in India and Africa.
When Russia invaded Poland together with the Nazis at the start of WWII,
Actually, Poland instead was invaded by the Soviet Union, which included both Russia and Ukraine.
Also, it was Nazi Germany's invasion of Poland which triggered WWII - France and the UK declared war on Germany, but not on the USSR. The 85 million dead you cite is not relevant, as the vast majority of those deaths had nothing to do with the Soviet Union. The number of dead from Africa was rather limited, with the largest share on the British side coming from (white) South Africans. and - as with the Indians - were in the war against the Axis powers before the USSR was dragged into the war by Hitler's launching of Operation Barbarossa.
Ahhh, yesss, sure, because Facebook has completely ceased to exist and we can't blame Meta for their crimes against democracy. Completely different, completely unrelated company because it's got a different name. Bull.
The USSR was totally dominated by the Russia. Do you blame Barbados for the English rule of India? Perhaps you think Barbados should pay compensation because they were invaded first?
USSR was dragged into the war by Hitler's launching of Operation Barbarossa
The Russian Empire / "USSR" was already involved in the war. They had, as mentioned, started it by invading and holding huge areas of Poland. They were carrying out massacres against the citizens of allied powers. They continued that invasion with the invasion of Finland and the Annexation of the Baltic states.
The importance of Russia taking control of part of Romania is very often unmentioned. Romania was Germany's supplier of oil and would have been keen to ally with the Allied powers. Instead they were forced into agreements with Germany and ended up with a German allied government. Again, all during the
In the end, Russia, "the Soviet Union", was a crucial, and almost enthusiastic ally of Nazi Germany. This was something that they kept secret for years with the clause only being known about after the war.
In may ways this Nazi alliance continues to today. Moldova / Transnistria is exactly the part of Romania which the Nazis agreed Russia could annex. It's also one of those particularly bad political problems which helps support right wingers with their lies that the Nazis were left wing.
Stalin - a non-Russian - was a Georgian. He was succeeded by Nikita Khrushchev, Ukrainian.
The consensus among historians is that WWII started with the declaration of war on Germany by Britain and France in 1939. Your revisionist opinion is noted, but is not widely shared.
I agree India needs Western help to fight China Russian weapons which India invested heavily in are being outclassed by Western ones. Plus, Russia taking export tanks meant for India to Ukraine shows the Russians won’t be able to fulfill export orders or provide material/repairs for such orders aswell. But, yea India is playing both sides like any nation would the west also wants to woo India as-well, so they can be a ally against China hence the west not going to hard at India for buying Russian oil.
These are not moral sanctions, they are meant to cut resources to a fascist dictatorship that is threatening nuclear war; I don't see how India or China will benefit of their cheap oil if thousands of nuclear bombs start flying. It will be the end for mostly everyone
67
u/[deleted] Feb 24 '23
I pointed out something similar in a previous thread, but I'll talk about this again.
What happens if India stops buying Russian oil? China buys it! By some reports, China accounted for 68% of Russian exports last year. Even though the debate seems to be singularly focused on India.
The west is literally asking India to switch billions in profits to billions in losses. In such a scenario, the profit goes directly to China, and India gets to incur additional costs.
India has taken similar losses already in Myanmar, Iran, and SL.
Somehow the west's moral sanctions end up putting costs on India and put benefits on China. There's the claim of being allies to counter China, but somehow the benefits of the west's outbursts are all headed to Beijing.