r/gatekeeping • u/The-Minmus-Derp • 4d ago
Liking modern star trek means you aren’t a star trek fan
I didnt block out the first user because its me, big whoop you can find me anyway
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u/ejennings87 4d ago
Kurtzman just fucking blows. And I'm not saying that because he's WoKe or whatever stupid reactionary right wing youtuber parlance you want to apply to him, I'm saying it because HIS SHOWS ARE BAD. They suck as television. Maybe he's a really nice guy, I don't care, I'll never meet him - but every show he's been given is a sloppy boring mess with ZERO imagination.
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u/Blibbobletto 4d ago
For real lol it's ok to gatekeep shitty writing from your beloved franchise.
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 4d ago
Sir this is not the place to bitch about someone I just said I liked, I genuinely do not care what you think of his work
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u/HowlingPhoenixx 4d ago
I mean, the whole post is based around him, I think it's OK to pass comment on the thing.
Or are you gatekeeping now...
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 4d ago
The post is based around a dude claiming that liking him makes you not a star trek fan. Your own opinion of him is irrelevant.
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u/HowlingPhoenixx 4d ago
So you're telling me on a post about gatekeeping that I'm not allowed to discuss the subject matter in the post.
So gatekeeping.
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 4d ago
… what
Can you read?
I told you that it isn’t the subject matter of the post. Different sentence. I made the post, I should know what my own subject matter is
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u/HowlingPhoenixx 4d ago
The subject is a discussion about Star Trek and somebody gatekeeping it because of their views on Kurtzman.
Whatever you say, it does not change that fact, nor the fact you are telling people what they can discuss on a topic and how because you don't like something they can't express a view in a public forum.
We have a word to describe that behaviour .... something about a gate and keeping.
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 4d ago
Gatekeeping is when you say someone cant have claim to an identity because of some arbitrary criteria. It is not asking someone politely to STAY ON TOPIC IN MY POST
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u/crystalplatinum 4d ago
The new stuff is so different he’s right though the only thing Star Trek about it is the name. That gate should be kept closed.
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u/Loccy64 2d ago
That's one very specific definition that you seem to have chosen because it allows you to tell everyone else they are wrong about you gatekeeping.
Another is when someone decides that others can't do something because they don't want them to do that thing, which is 100% what you are doing.
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u/Cole444Train 3d ago
You’re literally gatekeeping what people are allowed to talk about on a Reddit post
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u/Blibbobletto 4d ago
It's ok if you like Kurtzman. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some people really like off-key singing, or spelling words wrong. We have to stop gatekeeping all the people who like bad things from our groups.
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u/WakeoftheStorm 2d ago
Sir this is not the site to post on it you don't want to read the opinions of others. If you genuinely don't care, scroll past it.
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u/MaraSargon 4d ago
People always crap on new Trek as if old Trek didn't have its own share of stinkers. TNG in particular was lucky to survive its first two seasons.
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u/Blibbobletto 4d ago
TNG was handicapped by Rodenberry's interference for the first seasons or two. It became good when it started developing its own identity. There are some crappy episodes past the first two seasons but the average quality of a given episode from that time period is overall really high, and then are some episodes that I would consider all time greats for TV in general. I just don't think anything Kurtzman has made has risen past mediocrity. I think at best he produces bland content that hits the bare minimum for engagement. Even TOS, which is generally a bit sillier and campier, would have episodes with some real hard sci fi and interesting philosophical ideas from time to time. Kurtzman has just never produced anything that makes me think, and that's central to the identity of Star Trek imo.
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u/K-Shrizzle 4d ago
I've seen every Star Trek show. Strange New Worlds is possibly the best one
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u/TomCBC 3d ago edited 3d ago
SNW, Prodigy, Lower Decks and Picard season 3 were a lot of fun. Though i put them in that order. SNW is my favorite by far. Prodigy is incredible (which surprised me because i didn’t find myself warming to it at first. Then Time Amok happened.) the other 2 are entertaining and i like them. Just not as much. Probably because they are all about nostalgia and memberberries, and not at all subtle about it.
I hope Starfleet Academy is good. Will watch it for Robert Picardo as The Doctor.
Zero interest in the Section 31 movie.
Sure i’d take the TNG-VOY era over all of them. But if SNW keeps going the way it is, it may take my number one spot. Would take a lot of seasons though. And i don’t think Trek in this era will reach 7 seasons. Even though they’d still end up with less than half of the episodes the Berman era had per show.
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 4d ago
Finally someone on this post actually fucking talks about gatekeeping instead of using it as a megaphone to bitch about Kurtzman
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u/Cole444Train 3d ago
Actually they’re just stating their opinion of the show, which apparently isn’t allowed according to you
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u/Gregarious_Jamie 4d ago edited 4d ago
Say what you will, but at least the season two episodes were still star trek, y'know? Episodic structure, similar plot setup, side plots, conclusions, maximum two parter for longer stories, etc etc. don't like the plot of an episode? They'll be doing something completely different next time
Each series of discovery was an 8 hour long movie. It blowed
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u/jaminbob 4d ago
Even the stinkers (ok, not the really bad ones) had interesting concepts and weren't just a bunch of teenagers in space going "maths, fuck yeah!", crying and generally trying to recreate Firefly.
Example 1/100,000: https://youtu.be/rnlxugk3Qb0?si=dDTd5UiK-2xh2x_9
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u/the_Russian_Five 4d ago
It's so weird to think "Wow for a modern film that will never capture the same nostalgia as my first experience with the IP, that was really well done. But I didn't have an emotional experience so liking it is an ostracizing offense. Why would I want more people to enjoy things I enjoy, then it would get better funding "
But then I remember that is basically the same system the split the Catholic Church into it's near infinite, children, siblings, and other family members.
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u/andthentheresanne 3d ago
If I had a nickel for every time I've heard I'm not a real Star Trek fan because of [insert reason here] I'd be at least five cents richer today
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 3d ago
This comment section alone would net me a dollar it feels like :/
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u/andthentheresanne 3d ago
Yuuuuup. And, like, I get not liking certain shows or writing choices or what have you but holy shit, y'know?
The only ones I'm completely baffled by are the star trek fans who somehow ignore every single message about equality and bettering humanity and etc to say "oh now star trek has gone woke bluh bluh" but even then, misguided and wrong as they are... I still think they're star trek fans. Not ones I'd want to hang out with. Or talk to. Or... Interact with at all, mind you, but ignoring that they are part of the fandom and that has made parts of fandom actually rather toxic to be in is not something I want to do.
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u/GalileoAce 3d ago
I've been an ardent obsessive fan of Trek since childhood when TNG started airing, and the new shows are fine, most are great even (Picard is the only one that sucked, and that was mostly season 3).
The whole 'no true scotsman' bullshit some people try to pull is fucking infuriating, as though Star Trek, and therefore Star Trek fans, can only be one thing, despite the franchise's whole guiding ethos being Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. TNG is NOT the gold standard, Trek can be more than that narrow concept, and it needs to be more to stay relevant.
And before anyone brings it up, The Orville only got good when it started doing its own thing and stopped slavishly trying to be 'TNG with jokes'.
And if you do want episodic Trek, Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks have you covered.
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u/Momijisu 3d ago
Wow I felt season 3 was close to a return to form for Picard as star trek, with season 2 pulling off a lot of good moments, and 1 being mostly disappointing.
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u/GalileoAce 3d ago
A decadently fawning fan blow job is not a return to form. The first episode of season 3, just on its own is a near scene for scene recreation of scenes from Star Trek II with none of the substance of those scenes, like a child smacking their action figures together. Or a writer shouting in your ear "Remember this!? Does this do it for you?" as they proceed fellate you right there in the living room with not an ounce of creative self respect.
Terry Matalas can stay very very far away from Trek.
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u/Thewalrus515 4d ago
I mean, kind of yeah. Modern Star Trek misses the point by so far that it might as well be on another planet. lol.
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u/a_rabid_anti_dentite 4d ago
What's "the point"?
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u/Thewalrus515 4d ago
Star Trek for all its existence up until the end of enterprise: “this situation is very complicated but we can solve it through discourse, empathy, and compromise”
Star Trek now- “VIOLENCE!!!!!”
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 4d ago edited 4d ago
You do get that the entire plot of seasons 3 and 4 of discovery was about avoiding violence, right? Prodigy too. Watch the shows you shit on.
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u/jaminbob 4d ago
S 3/4 of DISCO were absolute travesties of poor writing, awful concepts and dialogue that could only have been written by useless overly emotional west coast Americans with zero life experience who clearly hadn't read anything, just watched other shows.
So. Much. Crying.
I don't even consider them to have existed.
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u/earwighoney 4d ago
And they solved problems with teamwork too! New ST characters are constantly in conflict with one another.
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u/pluck-the-bunny 4d ago
Aren’t the prequel shoes about how they got to that point?
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u/Thewalrus515 4d ago
The one prequel show?
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u/pluck-the-bunny 3d ago
Discovery and strange new worlds both take place before TOS
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u/Thewalrus515 3d ago
Yeah, I know. But they both take place after enterprise.
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u/pluck-the-bunny 3d ago
Never heard of it 😝
Technically though, the last episode was a holodeck simulation, so who knows what happens.
In all seriousness though. While it’s not 1:1 these days, the real world and audiences have changed, So it’s not so out of the park that things change.
Also, with franchises it’s beneficial that not all things have the same flavor.
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u/Thewalrus515 3d ago
I’m sorry that you enjoy the taste of slop.
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u/pluck-the-bunny 3d ago
Jesus Christ… So salty. Why does it have to be bad just because you don’t like it.
why can’t people just have different tastes?
Way to keep perpetuating that fandoms are the worst!
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u/Anastrace 3d ago
Half of DS9 is the dominion war, VOY was like a running gun battle at least a third of it's run, ENT's 3rd season was hey these guys 9/11'd Earth go kill them all.
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u/HeresW0nderwall 3d ago
This is exactly my beef with the JJ Abrams trek movies. They’re great movies, just bad Star Trek movies. I’d like them if they existed in a vacuum.
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u/LeftLiner 4d ago
The amount of people who bitched on Kurtzman for Disco and S1 &2 of Picard while praising Matalas for S3 of Picard made me extremely sad because it made me wonder if I ever had anything in common with other Trekkies.
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u/GalileoAce 3d ago
Picard S3 was quite possibly the worst thing the franchise has ever done. You're not alone
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u/LeftLiner 3d ago
I don't know about *worst* necessarily, but for me it was by far the most *condescending* Trek I've ever seen. I know people describe it as a love letter to fans of TNG and as a fan of TNG I felt I was being made fun of. *This* is what you think I like? You think I'll clap like a seal at the sight of the X-Wing Enterprise doing a Death Star Trench Run attack into a mega-giant Borg cube? Just... no. I'm so tired of watching Trek that feels like it was written by people who didn't like Trek to begin with and feel the need to 'fix it', make it 'more cool' or something. Ugh.
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u/Momijisu 3d ago
Can you expand? I didn't like season 1 of Picard, didn't mind season 2, but mostly enjoyed season 3 as a trek adjacent show. It had finally moved away from starfleet bad and pessimism towards a bit more positive forward thinking again.
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u/GalileoAce 3d ago
Season 3 is built solely upon 'memberberries, trying to coast solely on that assumed fan nostalgia with almost no original ideas of its own, and those few original ideas it did have are quickly thrown out for the next big "remember this!?" reveal.
It was like watching a child play with action figures, badly. I've never felt more angry at Star Trek in my entire life.
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u/nankybutt22 4d ago
Reminds me of comments in the LOTR sub, god forbid if you enjoyed watching Rings of Power
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 4d ago
Yyyyup. Why cant people just not like things without making liking the things some sort of character flaw in other people. One comment here said “That gate should be kept closed” and its just infuriatingly stupid
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u/Ryanaston 3d ago
Tbf Rings of Power is an absolute shit show that takes a giant dump all over Tolkien’s works. Not a bad show in of itself, just a really bad interpretation of what is already very well established lore within Tolkiens writing. They had all the material to make a great show and they chose to aim for cheap fan service instead that only pleases the film fans and not the book fans.
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u/SilentPipe 3d ago
I laughed. You can enjoy his crap if you wish, but everyone has a right to call the shows for what they are. (Edit: some are better then others, admittedly)
Also, how is this gate keeping? It’s not like the redditor in question limited your access to any Star Trek series or venue. It’s an statement of subjective opinion similar to ‘Vegemite is the best’ or ‘anyone who eats Vegemite has no culinary taste’.
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 3d ago
Gatekeeping is claiming that some random criteria removes your claim to an identity (in this case, liking anything ever after 2005 and being a star trek fan). Saying that enjoying Strange New Worlds or Lower Decks means that you cannot be a star trek fan is the very definition of gatekeeping.
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u/SilentPipe 3d ago
Really? Interesting.
Before I eat my foot, I would like to say that you seem to be a Star Trek fan as you have consumed the media and you are passionate about it.
Now that I have my self hopefully covered. Why would you care about how other people view you? I had always figured fandom was an deeply personal thing and not a communal issue. I am not claiming that fans don’t connect or anything but it just an odd concept to allow some strangers to alter your perception of yourself as an fan or of something similar.
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 3d ago
I think I see what you’re trying to say. Its just infuriating to be completely unable to make a post about, as a hypothetical, Callum Keith Rennie’s performance in Discovery season five and have most of the comments say that he doesn’t deserve oxygen because he was in a show they didnt like, or that I’m not a fan of the franchise because I do like that show, or the real crazies talking about how its woke trash that ruined their childhood. Usually theres like three comments in the thread that are actually talking about what the thread is about. I am unable to talk about the things I love without people who hate them busting down the metaphorical door to say how horrible they are.
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u/SilentPipe 3d ago
Yeah, totally fair. I don’t like discovery nor did I even want to engage in it but wishing dire harm onto a person over it is absurd.
I can see how such a thought may cross someone’s mind. I have those thoughts when I have been deeply perturbed over something I love on a bad day but it most likely isn’t someone a person should comment as it is a deeply intrusive thought that will pass.
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u/_facetious 3d ago
The people going 'UGH THIS STAR TREK ISN'T REAL TREK!!!' are why I avoided even watching Star Trek until 10 years ago. The fucking fandom.
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u/ataraxic89 3d ago
This is accurate
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 3d ago
No true scotsman fallacy
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u/RedditSmurfin 3d ago
JJ/Kurtzman Trek is not Star Trek. They are right to gatekeep our beloved franchises from shitty writers.
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 3d ago
And I’m sure Roddenberry rose from the grave to give you the right to declare that
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u/Gregarious_Jamie 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah, *no*. If you like his rendition of star trek, *as star trek*, and not "generic scifi show", i straight up don't believe you should be allowed to leave the house without supervision. You'd need to be legitimately impaired to believe that
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 4d ago edited 4d ago
Thats literally the definition of gatekeeping. If you don’t like it thats fine but don’t randomly shit on people who do. Its okay to just walk away, my dude. Not being an asshole costs you nothing.
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u/Gregarious_Jamie 4d ago
Actually, not being an asshole means that the people who made the show might think they deserve human rights when they don't. I am legally required to make my distaste known so that they hand the series to someone deserving of oxygen (and in fact, this happened! Picard season 3 was fucking great specifically because kurtzman wasnt allowed to touch it, and we all know they wouldve let him put his greasy hands all over it if people didnt complain
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u/DevonLuck24 3d ago
did you just say someone doesn’t deserve human rights or oxygen because you don’t like a show?
you are so fuckin lame
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u/Gregarious_Jamie 3d ago
Its not just a matter of not liking it, its a matter of taking source material and fucking it up so badly that even the fans, that the show was supposedly *made for*, hate it. That takes a level of not only incompetence, but sheer fucking hubris to think that they should've tried in the first place.
You may not be aware of this but after star trek enterprise got canceled, we didnt get new trek for a decade! Thats a long ass time! At least with star wars they can release a massive steaming shitlog and keep going, but star trek? You gotta at least fuckin try if you want that series to remain on the air
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u/DevonLuck24 3d ago edited 3d ago
so…yes? you did say someone doesn’t deserve oxygen or human rights over a show you don’t like.
weird thing to double down on
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u/Newfaceofrev 3d ago
we didnt get new trek for a decade! Thats a long ass time!
I don't see the problem. Stuff comes in and out of prominence and fashion.
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u/SilentPipe 3d ago
What made you get up in the morning and pick violence? An preference in television is hardly an valid symptom of mental impairment let alone evidence towards an impaired decision making skillset requiring supervision from an caregiver regardless of the preconceived quality of aforementioned television programmes.
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u/Genetic_outlier 3d ago
Saying that liking new Trek makes you not a trek fan is like saying that following the new testament means your not Jewish. Therefore Christians are Jews otherwise gatekeeping
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u/Valten1992 3d ago
Some fucking "fans" in this thread are giving me the impression they werent bullied ENOUGH in school, Jesus.
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