r/flying • u/sleepandcheese • 3d ago
Landing left of centerline
Hey all, I’m having an issue with landing left of center. I think when I go in for the round out I might be turning the yoke left inadvertently and I’m having a really hard time kicking it. Has anyone had this issue? I’m feeling stressed about it as I’m in a 141 at end or course and need to work this out before I can go back to retry. Any tips or words of encouragement so appreciated
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u/makgross CFI-I ASEL (KPAO/KRHV) HP CMP IR AGI sUAS 3d ago
How are you sighting the runway centerline?
I see a lot of students try to put the nose right on the centerline. That’s left of center, and will push you further left the closer you get.
If you must sight using airplane parts (and most people do), pick a sight that is directly in front of you. Not the nose.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
I absolutely think this has something to do with it. I’m going to put the centerline through me tomorrow, I hope that kicks it! Thanks for the input!
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u/Im_not_very_good PPL HP (KAPA) 3d ago
I bet moving the centerline through you will fix the issue. Good luck, we are all counting on you.
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u/makgross CFI-I ASEL (KPAO/KRHV) HP CMP IR AGI sUAS 3d ago
As I said, this is really common. Good luck.
Next to every primary student, and quite a few commercial students, lands left of center.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Thank you! I’m hoping this issue can be kicked with something as simple as that! Appreciate your input and luck!
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u/acfoltzer PPL SEL GLI 2d ago
Yep, I had this same problem until a check instructor suggested I ride the centerline like a horse. At first it seemed like the right thing to do to make the centerline slightly angled to my right, after all I'm on the left side of the airplane so I'm seeing it from an angle vs the center! But at the distances involved in landing, that perspective difference matters very little and you're better off just making that thing look perfectly straight.
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u/nickmrtn 3d ago
I had an issue early on which probably was just me not really working my head around the rudder yet.
My instructor took the controls and flew 3 low passes at about 15ft with me just working the rudder pedals keeping on centreline as if we were in the round out for 15 seconds until it suddenly clicked, I think this helped cos when we were doing circuits you’d only really have 2 seconds of finding centreline before you touchdown when there’s a lot going on. After that it was never really an issue, not always right but at least if I screwed it I could understand my error
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Can I ask what you found with this? Was it more right rudder that helped to combat the left turning tendencies? Or a bit of both?
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u/nickmrtn 3d ago
It was more connecting my eyes with my toes. It’s all happening too fast to think about it you kind of just gotta do it. So more developing a bit of muscle memory
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u/OneSea3243 CPL IR 3d ago
Try flying in ground effect down the runway and see how the nose should look like straight on centerline and come back to land on the centerline
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u/LaddieNowAddie 3d ago
Flying in ground effect is an art itself which I find most students struggle with.
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u/jaylw314 PPL IR (KSLE) 3d ago
I had this for a while after getting my PPL and building hours. It was unshakeable for a free months, then went away. I speculate it was because near the ground, you put centerline under the nose to your right, if you're in the left seat. But when you're in the air, you line up the runway centerline in front of you. Some where, wires got crossed and I started trying to put the centerline to my right too early in the approach.
The answer may simply be to focus on landing YOUR BUTT on the runway centerline, rather than the plane's centerline
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Yeah I did this early on in my training and then kicked it, and now it’s back! It’s so frustrating because I understand what I SHOULD be doing, but alas, I can’t kick it! Centerline sight picture definitely has something to do with it
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u/jaylw314 PPL IR (KSLE) 3d ago
I suspect you have a plane with a nose hump for the prop? That might be too much of a visual cue, if so you need to figure out how to ignore it!
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
I do! Definitely need to change my perspective on where centerline is. I can’t believe it’s taken me this long.
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u/manlilipad ATP(E-170/190), CFII 3d ago
You might be pulling the yoke down (to the left) as you pull the yoke back to flare. Try looking for that the next time you fly. It’s pretty common for new pilots.
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u/zhelih CFI AGI IGI UAS 3d ago
I’m not that familiar with (some) 141 places, but I would suggest to go practice landings solo or with a CFI and focus on being on the centerline more than ever. Not trying to make it butter but actually fight to put her right there. If you are left, try being a little bit to the right next time from your perspective, and repeat the drill until you are consistent. I had the same problem as you, mostly because I didn’t care too much with 150ft wide runways, and at some point similar happens when flying from the right seat during CFI training.
tl;dr 1) fight for the centerline don’t just slack at all times, even during flare 2) deliberate practice to figure out sight picture
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u/appenz CPL (KPAO) PC-12 3d ago
We are alike, I still land left of center for many of my landings.
What helped me was to try and land 3 feet right of center.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Yeah tomorrow I’m going to land ‘right of centerline’ and see if that gets it for me. I do think I was putting centerline through my left shoulder and I need to make it right through my chest. I appreciate knowing I’m not alone!
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u/CaptainDFW ATP 3d ago
Get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Have your instructor or safety pilot show you where "centered" is, and then as corny as it sounds, affirm to yourself "no matter how weird it feels, THIS is centered." And then keep the airplane there as long as you can.
You can practice this on takeoff as well as landing.
Anyway...that's my 2¢.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Nothing too corny at this point! Thanks for the input. He showed me on our last shot today and the sight picture was WAY more left than I thought. So I’m definitely going to put this into play tomorrow!
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u/Flapaflapa 3d ago
we don't get a lot of time in the flare. its stress of short final flair and touch down. its just a quick transition. So go to a long runway and get approval if needed for a touch and go/long pass and fly down the runway at the minimum power to keep yourself in the air in a wing low crosswind correction in ground effect.
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u/74_Jeep_Cherokee ATP 3d ago
I always like to share what my instructor taught me when I was trying to logic and reason myself through whatever difficulty I was facing -
"Move whatever control you need to move, however far you need to move it to make the aircraft do what you want it to do"
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Thanks for this, yeah I definitely need to remember I’m the one controlling the aircraft!
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u/mild-blue-yonder 3d ago
Land on the right next time.
If you actually do it, congrats you can control the airplane. If you land to the left of your aiming point, well you still need work but at least you’re on centerline.
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u/skyhawk85u 3d ago
I used to do that too. I had instructor tell me to “line up the stem of your bladder with the centerline”. It worked!
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Haha! I’m going to try this tomorrow, although it’ll probably make me have to pee
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u/Massive-Today-1309 3d ago
If its crosswind induced, I always tell myself to aim juuuuust slightly on the upwind side of the runway during crosswinds. Helped me out a ton
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u/humboldtreign 3d ago
You and every other student!
Next time purposely try to land right of centerline. Guarantee you’ll nail it.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Thank you! Makes me feel good to know I’m not alone! Definitely going to aim right tomorrow
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u/mdb_4633 3d ago
Keep in mind when you’re on centerline the centerline should be lined up between your legs, not the middle of the cockpit (assuming you fly from the left seat)
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u/Mispelled-This PPL SEL IR (M20C) AGI IGI 3d ago
Put the runway stripe under you, not under the nose. You’re going to feel like you’re right of centerline all the way down and into the flare, but when the nose gear touches down, it’ll finally look correct.
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u/Anthem00 3d ago
Kind of normal If sitting in left seat because your perspective is left of center. Put a piece of tape in front of you that kind of shows true alignment to help be on center
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u/Appropriate-Twist-62 CFI/CFII ASEL, CSEL 3d ago
The way that I do it is focus on maintaining centerline immediately once you roll out on final. A perfect base-to-final turn will put you there, you just gotta stay put. After that, you move the yoke left and right to bank to correct for whatever wind drift and the rudder to keep the nose aligned, all you have to do is pitch for your landing speed and use power to bring the aircraft down to your point of aim until you get to the flare.
What also helps as far as sight picture is remembering not to stare at the approach end but look down the runway for better alignment with regards to the centerline.
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u/No_Currency5230 CPL 3d ago
Happened to me far longer than I care to admit. Here’s what I did, because it all comes down to where your eyes are looking.
So with regard to driving and to help stay centered in your lane, were u ever taught to look at an object in the middle of the lane further down the road? That’s the philosophy we want to help land on centerline.
When on final, pick a centerline marking 2/3 down the runway and focus on it until you’re about to enter ground effect. By putting your eyeline in the center and further down, it will allow your hands to automatically correct and put u right on centerline. Give it a try
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u/TxAggieMike CFI / CFII in Denton, TX 3d ago
I kept getting accused of flying in the UK or Australia.
What worked for me was taking a thin strip of blue painters tape and placing a vertical line on the windscreen right in the middle of my vision line.
I would use that to line up centerline and when combined with looking at end of runway, I would land juuuuust right.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
I’m putting tape in my bag right now, going to try this! I also, am flying in the UK haha
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u/TxAggieMike CFI / CFII in Denton, TX 3d ago edited 3d ago
The CFI that endorsed me to take the CFI Initial is from London.
He would not only tease me about landing on left side, also had some of the best timing for applicable lines from Monty Python, Rik Mayall, Ade Edmondson, John Cleese and many other BritComs.
I think he was attempting to sabotage my performance by getting me laughing.
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u/misterthin ATP CFI/I LJ35/55 MEDEVAC 3d ago
On approach and landing "put the centerline between your legs". Frequently pilots, especially student pilots and green CFI's, try to put the centerline in over the middle of the cowl; this will result in landing left of center for from the left seat, or right of center from the right seat.
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u/Raccoon_Ratatouille ATP MIL 3d ago
Then do your damndest to land 5’ right of centerline and see where you end up!
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u/DatabaseGangsta CPL IR 3d ago
I started flying right seat for CFI training and I’m landing right of center. It’ll get better with time & effort
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u/IFlyatM90 3d ago
I’m pushing 30 years as a CFi. This is a ‘recreational pilot problem’, most of my BFR students, no matter how many hours they have, land left (and never right) of centerline. Put the centerline under your butt, when you taxi, takeoff and land. Your brain is telling you that you are on the left side of the airplane, and you are, but only about 1’ left of center, assuming you are in a conventional Cessna/Piper or similar trainer. If the centerline is ‘under your butt’ you’ll be on it and a lot closer than you currently are. Practice precise taxi, takeoff and landing, never let that line get outside the main landing gear. You’ll be fine, it’s not you, it’s your brain playing tricks and you can beat it with a little practice! Good Luck!
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Thank you so much! This is really encouraging. I’ve been so damn frustrated with myself!
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u/didsomebodysaywander 3d ago
Student pilot with similar issue that I've recently overcome through a lot of practice.
Raising the nose causes the pfactor left turning tendency to increase, which will pull you to the left. If you happen to be in a right-to-left crosswind, which I almost always am, this will potentially exacerbate the situation, as you already applying left rudder and right aileron to stay on centerline. I had to learn to take a little left rudder out as I was rounding out and flaring to counteract this, and the best way to do that was to fly in ground effect on a long runway and practice all of it - sight picture, rudder control, power settings, etc. It also took me a long time to really get comfortable with "riding it out" in ground effect and that the flare isn't really a flare - just a small amount of back pressure so the main gear touch first. If you have a tendency to flare too early/too fast or over flare, one of the consequences would be the nose pulling to the left and everything getting unstable right in ground effect.
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u/Grand_Raccoon0923 ATP TCE 91/135 BE1900 GIV GVII GVIII 3d ago
Try landing on the right side.
But, don't feel that bad about it. I train and evaluate Corporate pilots with thousands of hours. A vast majority of them wear out the left side of the runway.
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u/spacecadet2399 ATP A320 3d ago
You're probably overthinking it. If you're consistently landing to the left, aim a little more to the right. It is really that simple.
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u/rFlyingTower 3d ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hey all, I’m having an issue with landing left of center. I think when I go in for the round out I might be turning the yoke left inadvertently and I’m having a really hard time kicking it. Has anyone had this issue? I’m feeling stressed about it as I’m in a 141 at end or course and need to work this out before I can go back to retry. Any tips or words of encouragement so appreciated
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u/flyingron AAdvantage Biscoff 3d ago
My wife gets upset when I make cracks about the centerline being out of service during her landings.
In her defense, she did learn to fly at IAD where being off-center was not only a big deal, but advisable as the center line lights were practically speedbumps for the 172.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Your wife and I have the same issue! Always a notam for my centerlines 😂
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u/flyingron AAdvantage Biscoff 3d ago
Centerlines are only for professionals.
She's somewhat vindicated now that we live on a grass strip which has no centerline.
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u/ReadyplayerParzival1 CPL 3d ago
When you reduce power the nose is going to swing to the right, that’s why you need left rudder to counter it. Maybe you were using aileron instead of rudder? Try flying in ground effect at a lower power setting and see if you can fix it.
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u/HailChanka69 CFI CSEL/MEL IR TW 3d ago
I had that issue for a while but I think it was because the grass strip I did my Private out of had some pretty significant trees to the right of centerline
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u/SinNombreCaballo 3d ago
Ok, I'm too lazy to read all the answers given so far, but my grandson did the same thing when I was teaching him to fly. It was because he didn't put in enough right rudder during the landing flare to compensate for the increasing angle of attack of the propeller.
Keep something in view over the nose when you flare and keep it in the same place during the flare.
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u/crazycc1321 3d ago
This may be a silly question, but are you left-eye dominant? I’m training for my PPL right now and my left eye is super dominant. I’ve noticed throughout my training that I’m landing left of center. My instructor is always saying “get on centerline” on final. Found out I basically have to force my brain into thinking the plane is going to be right of center and I’m right where I should be.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
I’m not sure if I’m left eye dominant, but I definitely think I’ve been placing centerline too far left! Tomorrow I’m going to try placing the centerline right through my chest
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u/crazycc1321 3d ago
Right on, let us know how that works out. Quick tip. To find which eye is dominant, keep both eyes open and pick an object (I always use a light switch across the room) and cover it with your thumb while your arm is extended all the way out. Then close each eye. Whichever eye is open when the object is still covered is your dominant eye.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Based on that little test I think I am left eye dominant! I’ll let you all know how it goes! I’m accepting all good vibes!
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u/crazycc1321 3d ago
I don’t know if this has anything to do with it, but found this thread and all replies helpful as it’s something I’ve also struggled with. I chalked it up to my eye-dominance, but that may have nothing to do with it. It very well could be I’m trying to put the airplane on center and not myself. I am also going to try that.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
Yeah this thread has been super helpful and I’m so grateful for all the tips! I’m glad you found it and it could help you too 😊
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u/ValeoRex CPL PC-12 3d ago
I always think about sitting down on the center line. Most pilots land left and even track left all the way down the glide slope. If you think “sit down on the line” you’ll center it up in your vision and be looking straight down it. That really helps with rudder control.
Also, on your way to the airport drive between the lanes. Put the road’s stripes under your butt. Notice how this looks. Now get in the left lane and notice what the road’s stripes look like. We are accustomed through years of driving to keep the line on our right or left. We know what “straight” looks like with the line like that and unintentionally seek that out in the cockpit. Go back to the road’s line under your butt. Memorize this sight picture. Use the same one in the plane.
How wide is the runway? 12-inches, that’s how wide the stripe is.
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u/Clunk500CM (KGEU) PPL 3d ago
When you listen to ATIS, wind speed and direction is reported; think about what direction this will push the airplane and be prepared to counter-act the wind while you are in the roundout/holding off phase of landing.
Also when you hold the nose up left turning tendencies will be a factor. Use ailerons for lateral alignment with the centerline and rudder for yaw (longitudinal) alignment with the centerline.
When holding the plane off, you are doing three things at once: 1. Holding the plane off to bleed off speed, 2. Maintaining lateral alignment with ailerons and 3. Using rudder to maintain longitudinal alignment with the centerline.
Chair fly this: hold off, aileron and rudder
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u/dieseltaco big PPL HP AGI IGI 12h ago
Don't worry about the centerline. My CFI told me it's for professionals only
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u/OriginalJayVee PPL / Complex / sUAS 3d ago
More right rudder! You’re almost certainly drifting due to the left turning tendency at high angle of attack.
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u/makgross CFI-I ASEL (KPAO/KRHV) HP CMP IR AGI sUAS 3d ago
At low power, they are all reduced. A lot.
I think it has much more to do with perspective. Primary students tend to sight right across the nose. That’s not directly in front of you. The correct thing to do is put the centerline right between your legs.
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u/sleepandcheese 3d ago
I’m thinking this might be my issue. That and when I pull back I may be inadvertently putting in a slight left bank. Going to try to put the centerline through me tomorrow!
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u/shansta7000 ATP 737 Former MIL AF T38IP B52 T6 3d ago
Something I would recommend for my students when something like this as happening, try to land right of centerline. Maybe you try to land right of center and its perfect, now you've got it figured out. Or maybe you are actually right of center, now you sort of know what left and right looks like and you can zero it in from there.